As we all hate on Ken Dorsey today let’s remember

[Sharky7337]

This is like celebrating laptimes when you have a supercar thrown at you.

 

Adam gase looked good with the same setup.

[PBF81]

Just now, starrymessenger said:

I think McD is an outstanding defensive mind and coach, sorta like Bill. I wouldn't want to lose that. What he needs is an OC who can pull his weight and be on his level. He doesn't have that. Dorsey isn't there yet.

 

This season will tell us where he is or not 

 

IMO he's overrated in that way.  

 

 

[theRalph]

How about we remember that most teams—with even a flicker of common sense—would travel to London immediately after the preceding game. Like the Ravens as I write this post Monday morning. This is on McDermott. As well as Milano's injury that doesn't happen if the offense had demonstrated any type of proficiency in the 1st quarter. Maybe the pinheads in the Sports Science department should have made a test trip....or like may google the effects of Jet Lag. Hell, I'm surprised their brains even have enough power to move their mouths.

[BillzFreak]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

All we know is that the reasons need to be addressed from the top down.  

 

If there's been one common theme to our weaknesses on McD's watch, it's been inconsistency, for which preparation is a huge factor.  

 

That's all but exclusively a coaching issue.  

 

 

I agree the coaching has been lacking but all we know of the situation is what we see and what they tell you in these weak press interviews. Hopefully it can change and be figured out but at this point I'm starting to believe McDermott preached for the offense we are seeing Dorsey try and run and it's been a new chapter but same story....inconsistency.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The offense Josh Allen is really good.

 

 

Fixed.  I don't think Dorseys offense he designed is really good conceptually, I think its more a function of us having an elite QB and he making any offense we run score points.  

[Royale with Cheese]

20 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The Ravens game is the one game, but we wouldn't have even been there without the O.  

 

In that Chiefs game, spin it as you have, the defense was far worse.  

 

 

 

Skylar Thompson 

 

 

 

The argument wasn't about the O getting us there.  The argument was specifically about the playoff games.

 

Both units sucked that game.  You can't make the claim the defense lost it when the offense didn't score their first legitimate TD until late in the 4th down 38-14.  The only TD before that was a fumbled punt return at the 3 yard line.  Then it was punt, punt, punt FG, FG, INT on the next 5 drives.  

 

Skylar Thompson the QB who went 18 for 45?  That's 40% by the way.  Oh and his average yards per pass was 4.9?  QB rating of 44? 2 INT's?

Or was it the running game that the Dolphins gashed us with Jeff Wilson going 10 carries for 23 yards?

 

How was our defense bad in the Dolphins game?  Were they the reason why the Dolphins got back into the game?

Edited October 9, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

There was a moment when I was deeply concerned we were gonna blow that game. At home in the playoffs to Skylar Thompson.

 

I think if Elam doesn't pick that ball off, we lose that game.

[Solomon Grundy]

20 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

Again we have no idea if McDermott already told Dorsey if this is how he wants the offense to run. This already may be on McDermott is all I'm saying. And if that's the case the coaching is done and dusted and we may be out of answers. We blame dorsey and say McDermott needs to step in and fix it but this shorter pass game and not letting Josh really run might of been his call.

I, personally, don't want to see Josh run the ball much. I'd like to see them maul other defenses between the tackles with Murray/Harris. 

[Coach Tuesday]

It legit seemed like the Jags knew what plays we were running, and/or the snap counts yesterday.

[Solomon Grundy]

WEEK 5 RUSHING LEADERS TEAMS ALL WON THEIR GAMES. IJS🤷

[Buffalo_Stampede]

22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Fixed.  I don't think Dorseys offense he designed is really good conceptually, I think it’s more a function of us having an elite QB and he making any offense we run score points.  

You’re 100% right. Offense is GOOD because of the QB. 
 

Point still remains, offense is good.

 

When our offense struggles we blame the OC. When the offense is good, we credit Josh Allen.

 

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Allen and Diggs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everybody else.

 

 

The offense is good when anybody else can do something. Otherwise, it’s just the elite playing back yard football and it isn’t sustainable: we’ve been saying it since last year.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You’re 100% right. Offense is GOOD because of the QB. 
 

Point still remains, offense is good.

 

When our offense struggles we blame the OC. When the offense is good, we credit Josh Allen.

 

 

 

There is plenty of blame on Josh's decision making around here. But yeah, when the offense is running plays that are DOA at the snap, that tends to fall on the OC and not the players.

 

When we're down 11-0 and need to get something going, and it's 2nd and 1 and we just need to move 3 feet forward to keep the drive alive, and Dorsey dials up a SHOTGUN PITCH to Cook, which starts by pitching the ball backwards 5 yards, and results in a loss of 6 yards, that's on Dorsey. Dumb, dumb playcalling.

[TheWeatherMan]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

The offense was complete garbage yesterday

2 of the last 5 weeks the offense has been garbage.  4 of the last 7 if you include the playoffs.  Dorsey has the best QB and WR in franchise history and put up 7 points through nearly 3 quarters against the Jags.  

[Warcodered]

 

You know what they say if they can't stop it why bother keep doing it.

 

What are the odds the one he didn't mention is a drop.

[warrior9]

1 hour ago, BillzFreak said:

I agree but the loss of Milano is to me very bad. Yes it could of happened anywhere but for some reason it happening in England of all places is just making it worse for me..why idk it just is.

I get this 100% man

[PBF81]

51 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

I agree the coaching has been lacking but all we know of the situation is what we see and what they tell you in these weak press interviews. Hopefully it can change and be figured out but at this point I'm starting to believe McDermott preached for the offense we are seeing Dorsey try and run and it's been a new chapter but same story....inconsistency.

 

Agreed, McD hasn't come clean.  Many take issue when I say that, but we do not know and that's because, ... well, McD hasn't come clean.  LOL 

 

I don't think that the pressers will change, but at the end of the day what I find to be frustrating is the lack of accountability McD gets for the offense on the premise that "he's a defensive-minded coach."  

 

So TF what.  One way or another, he's entrusted with overseeing the entire team, not simply the D while deflecting any and all criticism for the O off his sleeves.  

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by PBF81

[Alphadawg7]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You’re 100% right. Offense is GOOD because of the QB. 
 

Point still remains, offense is good.

 

When our offense struggles we blame the OC. When the offense is good, we credit Josh Allen.

 

 

 

Agreed, your point remains, the offense is still good.  

 

But to be fair, Josh has taken plenty of criticism, even more than he often deserves at times.  And in regards to the OC...Great QB's have made a lot of "OC's" look better than they were, its not new and rather common.  

Edited October 9, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[PBF81]

43 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

How was our defense bad in the Dolphins game?  Were they the reason why the Dolphins got back into the game?

 

24 offensive points allowed to a rookie 7th-round QB that absolutely no one had as ever being an NFL starting QB, and one that led the Fins on a 75-yard drive in the 4th Quarter to bring the game, which was a wintry home game for us, within a FG.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

24 offensive points allowed to a rookie 7th-round QB that absolutely no one had as ever being an NFL starting QB, and one that led the Fins on a 75-yard drive in the 4th Quarter to bring the game, which was a wintry home game for us, within a FG.  

 

 

 

He was killing us all day with his 4.9 yards per pass, two INT's, 40% and his 44 rating.  Not to mention 4 for 16 on 3rd down.  

Their 6 punts and one drive over 40 yards....just one.

You're right.  Our defense was sieve against the high powered offensive attack that the Dolphins were putting on us all day long.

 

Meanwhile our second half offense....

Fumble TD

Punt

Punt

INT

TD

TD (Resulted from Elam's INT)

Punt

Punt

 

 

 

[Buftex]

My biggest complaint about the offense, we don't seem to have any real in-game flexibility.  We come in and do what we do, and more often than not, it works.  But, when it doesn't work, it is so frustrating. There is no real shame in losing to Jacksonville yesterday. They are a very talented, well coached team, who was kind of finding their sea-legs the first few weeks of the season.  They may have had some logistical benefits, only further enhanced with our seemingly endless injury problems during the game. 

 

All that going against us, I really think (like last time we lost to the Jags) we were only 1 play away, most of the game, from breaking it open.  We could have left London with an ugly win, but it seems sometimes, the Bills are too slow to recognize on offense, what isn't working.  Though they didn't run the ball a whole lot yesterday (and let's face it, it wasn't working) they still did it a few times, very late, when the clock was becoming a factor. A frustrating loss, to be sure...but not the end of the world.  Losing Milano is a lot more damaging than the loss is. 

 

Dorsey calls a good game most of the time, but his inexperience may be showing a little against some of the better defenses.  I know, walking the fine line with Josh (when and when not to "ball out") is a factor....I wish they had let him be a little more aggressive earlier in the game.  Even the opening drive of the second half. You have all these new role players in the offense, use them!

Edited October 9, 2023 by Buftex

[dave mcbride]

21 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

24 offensive points allowed to a rookie 7th-round QB that absolutely no one had as ever being an NFL starting QB, and one that led the Fins on a 75-yard drive in the 4th Quarter to bring the game, which was a wintry home game for us, within a FG.  

 

 

The Dolphins averaged 3.3 yards per play in that game and were gifted 16 points because of turnovers and a long punt return (2 FGs, a TD, and a TD that started in FG range because of an Allen INT). Also, on one of their FG drives, they started at their own 40 because Bass kicked it out of bounds. The Dolphins' offense had one good drive all game but otherwise was shut down. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by dave mcbride

[PBF81]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He was killing us all day with his 4.9 yards per pass, two INT's, 40% and his 44 rating.  Not to mention 4 for 16 on 3rd down.  

Their 6 punts and one drive over 40 yards....just one.

You're right.  Our defense was sieve against the high powered offensive attack that the Dolphins were putting on us all day long.

 

Meanwhile our second half offense....

Fumble TD

Punt

Punt

INT

TD

TD (Resulted from Elam's INT)

Punt

Punt

 

 

 

 

You're seriously defending our playoff D?  
 

LOL 

 

24 points, Skylar Thompson, in the snow, in a playoff environment at home, AND, a 75-yard drive allowed at a key moment in the game to nearly cost us the game.  

 

Sure.  

 

 

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Dolphins averaged 3.3 yards per play in that game and were gifted 16 points because of turnovers and a long punt return (2 FGs, a TD, and a TD that started in FG range because of an Allen INT). Also, on one of their FG drives, they started at their own 40 because Bass kicked it out of bounds. The Dolphins' offense had one good drive all game but otherwise was shut down. 

 

They averaged 6 yards-per-play with Thompson going 4 of 5 for 59 yards en route to a TD at the most crucial juncture in the game allowing them to come within 3 and nearly win it.  ... with a home playoff crowd.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

You're seriously defending our playoff D?  
 

LOL 

 

24 points, Skylar Thompson, in the snow, in a playoff environment at home, AND, a 75-yard drive allowed at a key moment in the game to nearly cost us the game.  

 

Sure.  

 

 

 

Its clearly obvious the Dolphins defense sucked 99% of the day.  You're arguing just to argue.  One drive was the key moment lol.

This is as bad as you showing a highlight film to show Bernard is a liability in the run game.  LOL.

 

All that snow.  You're right.  That probably lead to the Bills turnovers because the ball was wet in the Dolphins game lol.

Geezus, you're a comedy routine.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/bills-vs-dolphins-game-highlights-2022-wild-card-playoffs

 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

No debating the stats look good.  But the inconsistent performances, Jets and Jags, cost us 2 wins.

 

Even with a depleted defense, no excuse to get "shut down" in the 1st half.

 

I'm a Dorsey supporter, but he has to devise better plans than what we saw yesterday.  Not saying execution was great, but this offense went back to lacking identity/rhythm and that to me is more on coaching.

The inconsistencies over the last 2 seasons under KD are indisputable.  You immediately identify they're trying to shut down the run & short passing game and react to it.  It absolutely shouldn't take 3 1/2 quarters to do this.  Stop running failed plays like the ridiculous shotgun draw or throws 3 yards behind the LOS.  Get Josh's a ss behind center like you did v Miami.  

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Its clearly obvious the Dolphins defense sucked 99% of the day.  You're arguing just to argue.  One drive was the key moment lol.

This is as bad as you showing a highlight film to show Bernard is a liability in the run game.  LOL.

 

All that snow.  You're right.  That probably lead to the Bills turnovers because the ball was wet in the Dolphins game lol.

Geezus, you're a comedy routine.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/bills-vs-dolphins-game-highlights-2022-wild-card-playoffs

 

 

I'm not arguing to argue.  

 

You're trying to use two games, one in which our D played a pretty bad offense relatively speaking, and this Miami game, to counter my argument that our defense has generally sucked in the playoffs and that the reasons for our elimination from the playoffs has a whole lot more to do with our defense allowing 38, 36, and 27 points in regulation, an average of a bottom-dwelling playoff performance of nearly 34 PPG, and allowed an average of 30 1st-Downs which is putrid, than it does with our offense that put up 36 and 24 in two of those playoff games.  

 

Let's suppose I agree with you that the Miami game was great D.  But the Ravens game, yes, 3 points was great, but Baltimore had no one on offense that was worth a crap besides their TE Andrews.  Not one single standout player otherwise.  We still were eliminated from the '20 and '21 playoffs because of our D, and in '21, entirely because of our D and the idiotic coaching decisions involving the D and that ill-fated series.  

 

Last season the O sucked too, but the D did absolutely nothing in that Bengals game in allowing 30 1st-Downs, 412 total yards, and 172 rushing yards.  

 

Our hopes for a Lombardi rest entirely with our offense.  

 

 

[Jauronimo]

20 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

You're seriously defending our playoff D?  
 

LOL 

 

24 points, Skylar Thompson, in the snow, in a playoff environment at home, AND, a 75-yard drive allowed at a key moment in the game to nearly cost us the game.  

 

Sure.  

 

 

 

They averaged 6 yards-per-play with Thompson going 4 of 5 for 59 yards en route to a TD at the most crucial juncture in the game allowing them to come within 3 and nearly win it.  ... with a home playoff crowd.  

 

 

Dolphins first TD was an 18 yard drive after an Allen INT. Dolphins second TD was a strip sack on Allen.  Defense held Miami to 209 net yards and forced two turnovers.  It was only a contest because Buffalo's offense kept Miami in the game.

 

Miami scoring drives:

 

- 38 yards, 3

- 18 yards, 6

- 8 yards, 9

- 18 yards, 17

- 0 yards, 24

- 75 yards, 31

 

Buffalo defense allowed one drive all game.  This is not the game to talk about Buffalo's playoff defense.  

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'm not arguing to argue.  

 

You're trying to use two games, one in which our D played a pretty bad offense relatively speaking, and this Miami game, to counter my argument that our defense has generally sucked in the playoffs and that the reasons for our elimination from the playoffs has a whole lot more to do with our defense allowing 38, 36, and 27 points in regulation, an average of a bottom-dwelling playoff performance of nearly 34 PPG, and allowed an average of 30 1st-Downs which is putrid, than it does with our offense that put up 36 and 24 in two of those playoff games.  

 

Let's suppose I agree with you that the Miami game was great D.  But the Ravens game, yes, 3 points was great, but Baltimore had no one on offense that was worth a crap besides their TE Andrews.  Not one single standout player otherwise.  We still were eliminated from the '20 and '21 playoffs because of our D, and in '21, entirely because of our D and the idiotic coaching decisions involving the D and that ill-fated series.  

 

Last season the O sucked too, but the D did absolutely nothing in that Bengals game in allowing 30 1st-Downs, 412 total yards, and 172 rushing yards.  

 

Our hopes for a Lombardi rest entirely with our offense.  

 

 

 

You keep just looking at one aspect, it's so tunnel vision.

 

Now the Ravens didn't have a good 2020 offense?  They averaged almost 30 points per game that year.  But now you're trying to discredit our defense performance that game by saying the Raven's weren't good.  That's reaching.

 

Yes our defense sucked in the AFCCG but so did the offense.  You can't say we lost because of the defense when our offense was equally as garbage.  There is no spinning that.  Our offense is equally to blame.

 

The Wild Card Perfect Game against the Pats.  Our offense played exceptionally well but so did the defense.  The Patriots were 6th in the NFL in scoring that year and Mac Jones only decent season.  Mac Jones sucks now but in 2021, the Pats averaged a little over 27 points per game.  We shut them down.  

 

Last year, against the Bengals, it was defense and offense.  They both sucked and arguing one is the reason why we lost isn't a strong argument...both of them sucked.  Our drives were punt, punt, TD, punt, FG, downs.  

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You keep just looking at one aspect, it's so tunnel vision.

 

Now the Ravens didn't have a good 2020 offense?  They averaged almost 30 points per game that year.  But now you're trying to discredit our defense performance that game by saying the Raven's weren't good.  That's reaching.

 

Yes our defense sucked in the AFCCG but so did the offense.  You can't say we lost because of the defense when our offense was equally as garbage.  There is no spinning that.  Our offense is equally to blame.

 

The Wild Card Perfect Game against the Pats.  Our offense played exceptionally well but so did the defense.  The Patriots were 6th in the NFL in scoring that year and Mac Jones only decent season.  Mac Jones sucks now but in 2021, the Pats averaged a little over 27 points per game.  We shut them down.  

 

Last year, against the Bengals, it was defense and offense.  They both sucked and arguing one is the reason why we lost isn't a strong argument...both of them sucked.  Our drives were punt, punt, TD, punt, FG, downs.  

 

OK, our playoff defense has been good, without any trend or pattern of problems.  I've seen the light.  

  

 

 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

Who gives a ***** about numbers and stats? They don’t tell any of the story. This team can’t consistently move the ball with Josh F’ing Allen at QB! That’s offensive malpractice. I see nothing new every week. Same old shotgun nonsense with handoffs to cook that go nowhere and then hope josh makes a play. Even the bad teams like the Texans and cardinals are creative on offense this year, and the cards are doing it with dobbs. We run no slants, crossers or anything else that makes offenses hum along. Just 15 yard curls into tight windows or low % bombs to Gabe. No designed josh runs, nothing. Add in McDermott not motivating guys and it’s a shame we keep wasting the best player in the nfl. 

[Since1981]

Q: What is your team's unique super power and unique ability in the NFL? 

A:  Example: JA17 roll out with option to run, pitch, pass---with even cross field to far hash marks. So obvious that it puts the D in a bind every time.

 

So, why not have players and plays, around the unique super powers? 

I just don't see where our team's super powers are being exploited. (like Brady crossers/never run; Lamar opposite--NE/BAL brought in the players and plays to exploit)

[mjt328]

Yeah.  I'm starting to come to the conclusion that Ken Dorsey is the biggest problem with this offense.

 

Sure.  The Bills once again have really great offensive numbers.  Overall, they are fantastic in almost every statistical category known to the NFL.  But just like last season, it seems totally hollow and fake.  The Bills are to offensive stats, what Kirk Cousins is to quarterbacks.  Despite being Top 5 on paper, they have somehow cost us two games already.  

 

I can somewhat understand the Jets, because they are universally considered a good defense.  But the Jaguars?  Nobody can claim the Bills are outmatched talent-wise against Jacksonville's defensive unit.  Which then tells me the problem is most likely in gameplan...how we are attempting to attack, and how we are adjusting in-game to the looks the defense is giving.

 

All week, we heard the media outlets PRAISING the Bills/Josh Allen and how great they are doing when running play-action.  Literally every football website was talking about how much better Allen is under-center than when he's in shotgun.  But then Dorsey proceeds to put the QB in shotgun for 90% of the day and barely runs play-action at all.  Even when the offense continues to struggle.  It's absolutely baffling to me.

 

For the second year in a row, places like Cover 1 continue to show videos of these bunched-up routes being run by our receivers.  How has this not been fixed yet?  

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by mjt328

[london_bills]

Hating on ken Dorsey when the ball is two yards in front of diggs and it's 14-7. SMH.

 

Allen's been amazing and I love the checkdowns but the SB winning QBs hit that for a TD. Nate Geary talking about the really fine margins and he's totally right

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Q: What is your team's unique super power and unique ability in the NFL? 

A:  Example: JA17 roll out with option to run, pitch, pass---with even cross field to far hash marks. So obvious that it puts the D in a bind every time.

 

So, why not have players and plays, around the unique super powers? 

I just don't see where our team's super powers are being exploited. (like Brady crossers/never run; Lamar opposite--NE/BAL brought in the players and plays to exploit)

Exactly. Like I said above, it’s coaching malpractice to have 17 and not use him to his abilities. Instead we do the same ***** every week. 

[london_bills]

14-11 MB

[Boatdrinks]

39 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

OK, our playoff defense has been good, without any trend or pattern of problems.  I've seen the light.  

  

 

 

Playoff defense good vs Lamar, Mac Jones and Miami backup. Not so good Vs Mahomes, Colts with Rivers/ Taylor , Macaulay Burrow. 

[Since1981]

1 minute ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

7 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Q: What is your team's unique super power and unique ability in the NFL? 

A:  Example: JA17 roll out with option to run, pitch, pass---with even cross field to far hash marks. So obvious that it puts the D in a bind every time.

 

So, why not have players and plays, around the unique super powers? 

I just don't see where our team's super powers are being exploited. (like Brady crossers/never run; Lamar opposite--NE/BAL brought in the players and plays to exploit)

Exactly. Like I said above, it’s coaching malpractice to have 17 and not use him to his abilities. Instead we do the same ***** every week. 

 

YUP. It should be a full organizational too. Bring players and staff to exploit unique super power. Like a pulling tackle that can swing with Superman on the designed roll out and WR2 that D is forced to let go free or lost in the play design. 

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Playoff defense good vs Lamar, Mac Jones and Miami backup. Not so good Vs Mahomes, Colts with Rivers/ Taylor , Macaulay Burrow. 

 

And worse vs. Thompson, in favorable Bills home conditions, than in any of his other two starts, one of which was against Minnesota and their 28th ranked defense last season.  

 

 

[ngbills]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

You know what they say if they can't stop it why bother keep doing it.

 

What are the odds the one he didn't mention is a drop.

This is what is killing me about Dorsey. He is so stubborn or wants to prove others wrong or something. It has been become clear this team operates better under center and going play action. The running game has been better and the passing game under center. Yet Dorsey continues to force this shotgun delayed draw that gets -3 yards more than positive 1. We stick with the shotgun throwing the same come back route or 30 yards swing pass to the sideline for 1 yd. The passing stats from under center vs shotgun are absurd. Yet we go shotgun all game.  

[BCAS Baritone]

5 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Having a good offense with ***** play calling is just getting old.  If I see another shotgun draw to cook....

He'll change it up next week - shotgun draw to Murray