As we all hate on Ken Dorsey today let’s remember

[Buffalo_Stampede]

The offense is really good.

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Missing the details. Shotgun draw to Cook  goes for negative. 

[Jauronimo]

The offense was complete garbage yesterday

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

The offense was complete garbage yesterday

By our standards. I saw Diggs running free multiple times.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[MasterStrategist]

No debating the stats look good.  But the inconsistent performances, Jets and Jags, cost us 2 wins.

 

Even with a depleted defense, no excuse to get "shut down" in the 1st half.

 

I'm a Dorsey supporter, but he has to devise better plans than what we saw yesterday.  Not saying execution was great, but this offense went back to lacking identity/rhythm and that to me is more on coaching.

[NewEra]

It was great playing against LV, wash, Miami.  
 

it was bad vs NYJ and jax.  
 

3 good.

 

2 bad. 

[Process]

Another way to look at it. 

 

Our offense has lost us 40% of our games this year. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

No debating the stats look good.  But the inconsistent performances, Jets and Jags, cost us 2 wins.

 

Even with a depleted defense, no excuse to get "shut down" in the 1st half.

 

I'm a Dorsey supporter, but he has to devise better plans than what we saw yesterday.  Not saying execution was great, but this offense went back to lacking identity/rhythm and that to me is more on coaching.

This is the way

[GerstAusGosheim]

The offense being really really good in 60% of the games, and dogpoop in the rest, isn't going to cut it.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, NewEra said:

It was great playing against LV, wash, Miami.  
 

it was bad vs NYJ and jax.  
 

3 good.

 

2 bad. 

Turnovers vs Jets.

 

Jacksonville there were drops. I also feel like there were plays to be made that we didn’t make.

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

By our standards. I saw Diggs running free multiple times.

By any standard for offensive football.  Diggs running free and not getting the ball is consistent with a garbage offensive performance.

[oldmanfan]

Dorsey at times does not seem to recognize that defenses have watched tape as well and scheme to stop things.  The delays to Cook out of shotgun formation yesterday was a glaring example.  We kept running it, they stopped it cold every time.  You have to adjust better and yesterday he didn’t.

[Roundybout]

In spite of Dorsey, not because of him. 
 

Knox and Kincaid’s decline is shocking. 

[Dillenger4]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

It was great playing against LV, wash, Miami.  
 

it was bad vs NYJ and jax.  
 

3 good.

 

2 bad. 

And to be more clear - we faced two good defenses that were tougher than our guys. And we lost. It seems that when we play "tougher" teams... meaning they want it more than we do... we lose. The Bills don't have that fight in them. Imagine us vs the Niners, Steelers D or even Balt? We lose.

Just now, Roundybout said:

In spite of Dorsey, not because of him. 
 

Knox and Kincaid’s decline is shocking. 

I'm also sick of Knox whining to the refs after every dropped ball or incompletion. Dude is getting annoying... it's football. FIGHT!!!

[BillsFan130]

The guys on WGR made some good points:

 

The nfl is a week to week league.

 

3 weeks the bills O has been excellent.

 

2 it’s been bad.

 

I like looking at it that way^ opposed to averaging stats which can be misleading 

[Alphadawg7]

My issue with Dorsey is his insistence on ignoring the facts and talent.  Allen and the offense have been better with Allen under center yet we again ran a ton out of shotgun again.  I mean I think it was several drives in before Allen finally lined up under center.  
 

He is again not using the talent well either.  For all this two TE attack talk, we once again ignore Knox is on this team and aren’t making much effort to get Kincaid the ball.  And for all the mismatches Kincaid is supposed to be creating, we keep throwing short passes to him only.  You don’t need a smooth athletic TE to throw 5 yard passes too.  You get a guy like him to put pressure upfield, down the seem, mid range…not just short dump offs.  
 

We are running two TE’s out there a lot, but we aren’t throwing to them like we are.  If you look at the stats of our TEs you would think we had one at a time out there and using them to block because neither is doing much as a receiver.  
 

And then there is tendency to make bone headed play calls.  I really thought the Miami game was turning of the corner, but he reverted back this week and it’s concerning.

[SWATeam]

The problem with our offense is consistency, and it's a fatal flaw IMO.

 

By the end of the year it will be ranked very high but the ride there will be a rollercoaster with several duds mixed in.  That type of variance is not the way to get through a single elimination tournament.  One dud and we're going home.

Edited October 9, 2023 by SWATeam

[Negan]

It's good despite Dorsey.

 

Same offense as last year, no creativity.

 

No screens (TE, RB), not scheming guys open. 

 

Need more slants in our offensive playbook.  We have hardly any YAC with this offense.

 

Sprint draws into 3 defenders. 

 

A trick play once a season would be a welcome sight. 

 

I feel like I typed these same things last year, when will it end ugh?!!

Edited October 9, 2023 by Negan

[Motorin']

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

My issue with Dorsey is his insistence on ignoring the facts and talent.  Allen and the offense have been better with Allen under center yet we again ran a ton out of shotgun again.  I mean I think it was several drives in before Allen finally lined up under center.  
 

He is again not using the talent well either.  For all this two TE attack talk, we once again ignore Knox is on this team and aren’t making much effort to get Kincaid the ball.  And for all the mismatches Kincaid is supposed to be creating, we keep throwing short passes to him only.  You don’t need a smooth athletic TE to throw 5 yard passes too.  You get a guy like him to put pressure upfield, down the seem, mid range…not just short dump offs.  
 

We are running two TE’s out there a lot, but we aren’t throwing to them like we are.  If you look at the stats of our TEs you would think we had one at a time out there and using them to block because neither is doing much as a receiver.  
 

And then there is tendency to make bone headed play calls.  I really thought the Miami game was turning of the corner, but he reverted back this week and it’s concerning.

 

And first play under center he went play action to Diggs for a huge gain. Then went right back to shotgun spread and the drive fizzled. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Motorin'

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Process said:

Another way to look at it. 

 

Our offense has lost us 40% of our games this year. 

 

And our defense has lost us all the playoff games that got us booted from the playoffs.  27, 36, & 38 in reg.  

 

Your point? 

 

 

11 minutes ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

The offense being really really good in 60% of the games, and dogpoop in the rest, isn't going to cut it.

 

All it has to do is cut it for four weeks come playoff time.  

 

We haven't been able to count on the D in the playoffs.  

 

 

[Process]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

And our defense has lost us all the playoff games that got us booted from the playoffs.  27, 36, & 38 in reg.  

 

Your point? 

 

 

You're the one whose "point" is completely irrelevant to this thread. 

 

Our offense hasn't been "really good" in 40% of our games this year. 

[SCBills]

Far too much variance in the offense.  I'm not pinning that all on Dorsey, but an Offense that goes 5 games.. blows out 3 teams and looks like a JV squad against the other 2, is not an Offense built for a Playoff run.  

[pigpen65]

I want to hate on Dorsey but I'm kind of hated out. I just think it was a big mistake to not replace him before the season. There are a lot of O coordinators who would have loved to take the Bills job and could have had this team 5-0 in their sleep. Having Josh Allen throw to Stephon Diggs is not rocket science. It shouldn't be this hard. 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Turnovers vs Jets.

 

Jacksonville there were drops. I also feel like there were plays to be made that we didn’t make.

There were….but that doesn’t mean our offense was good in those games.  

[Royale with Cheese]

13 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

No debating the stats look good.  But the inconsistent performances, Jets and Jags, cost us 2 wins.

 

Even with a depleted defense, no excuse to get "shut down" in the 1st half.

 

I'm a Dorsey supporter, but he has to devise better plans than what we saw yesterday.  Not saying execution was great, but this offense went back to lacking identity/rhythm and that to me is more on coaching.

 

Frankly, it should have been the opposite.  Our defense should have had the issues and our offense keeping them in the game.

Our offense was healthy.  Maybe tired and synapse's in the brain not firing as quickly because of the jet lag fatigue....I don't know.  

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

And our defense has lost us all the playoff games that got us booted from the playoffs.  27, 36, & 38 in reg.  

 

Your point? 

 

 

 

All it has to do is cut it for four weeks come playoff time.  

 

We haven't been able to count on the D in the playoffs.  

 

 

 

And our offense has lost playoff games too.  

 

There is no point, we are talking the 2023 season.  Our offense has lost us two games this year.

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

My issue with Dorsey is his insistence on ignoring the facts and talent.  Allen and the offense have been better with Allen under center yet we again ran a ton out of shotgun again.  I mean I think it was several drives in before Allen finally lined up under center.  
 

He is again not using the talent well either.  For all this two TE attack talk, we once again ignore Knox is on this team and aren’t making much effort to get Kincaid the ball.  And for all the mismatches Kincaid is supposed to be creating, we keep throwing short passes to him only.  You don’t need a smooth athletic TE to throw 5 yard passes too.  You get a guy like him to put pressure upfield, down the seem, mid range…not just short dump offs.  
 

We are running two TE’s out there a lot, but we aren’t throwing to them like we are.  If you look at the stats of our TEs you would think we had one at a time out there and using them to block because neither is doing much as a receiver.  
 

And then there is tendency to make bone headed play calls.  I really thought the Miami game was turning of the corner, but he reverted back this week and it’s concerning.

 

That's the reality.  

 

The talent is there.  Or OL is the best it's n been since most of us can remember.  Allen wasn't sacked once yesterday.  

 

If we can't get this right then it's obviously on Dorsey.  

 

But Sorry works for McD the last time I looked.  The things you mentioned would be easily correctable if McD simply told Dorsey to "start doing (this)" or "so doing (that).". 

 

So once again, McD is avoiding much criticism and blame here. 

 

If he's not capable of doing that, well ... 

 

 

[Shortchaz]

I’m curious what % of the plays buffalo calls are unique for the team they are playing. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Lacks consistency. The D. is consistently good game to game for the most part. The O. Is either really good or meh.

[Allen2Moulds]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

My issue with Dorsey is his insistence on ignoring the facts and talent.  Allen and the offense have been better with Allen under center yet we again ran a ton out of shotgun again.  I mean I think it was several drives in before Allen finally lined up under center.  
 

He is again not using the talent well either.  For all this two TE attack talk, we once again ignore Knox is on this team and aren’t making much effort to get Kincaid the ball.  And for all the mismatches Kincaid is supposed to be creating, we keep throwing short passes to him only.  You don’t need a smooth athletic TE to throw 5 yard passes too.  You get a guy like him to put pressure upfield, down the seem, mid range…not just short dump offs.  
 

We are running two TE’s out there a lot, but we aren’t throwing to them like we are.  If you look at the stats of our TEs you would think we had one at a time out there and using them to block because neither is doing much as a receiver.  
 

And then there is tendency to make bone headed play calls.  I really thought the Miami game was turning of the corner, but he reverted back this week and it’s concerning.

I heard on WGR this morning that we ran playaction on 5 plays. The week before against MIA we ran playaction on 35%. I wish Dorsey would fall in love with playaction, the way he does with the shotgun draw up the middle. 

 

This eads me to the biggest 2 issues with Dorsey, it comes down to things, that you alluded to.

 

1. Improper use of Personal (Hines last year, Kincaid and Hardy this year). 

 

2. Formation usage. When and how often to utilize formations.

 

 

[BillsFan692]

Our offense has to prove they can be good consistently and for the past 3 years they haven't been. It's up and down it's whiplash it's kind of crazy. Like some kind of roller coaster.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

It would be really great if our media could ask Dorsey what the heck he was thinking with this sequence:

 

11-7 Jags 

 

14:00 min left in the 4th quarter. 

 

TOP to that point was 29 minutes Jags, 15 minutes Bills. 

 

We go:

 

Kincaid for 14 yards

 

Harris up the middle for 5 yards. 

 

2nd-5 - We bring in 3 Tight Ends and try to throw to Q.Morris? Dawkins gets flagged for holding. Now 2nd-15.

 

2nd-15: Misfire to Knox. 

 

3rd-15: Allen bomb deep to Diggs out of desperation to try and make anything happen - INT. 

 

We take a grand total of 1:30 off the clock and the defense is forced to go right back on the field. 

 

Jags brutalize the Bills and go up 18-7. Game over. 

 

 

 

But don't worry Bills fans, since that delayed draw to Cook was working so well, we tried it again with 5:00 to go down 18-13 for -2 yards and a complete waste of 30-seconds. 

 

 

Instead Buffalo media will ask Dorsey about if he is tired today and jet lagged from going to London, and his general feelings towards Josh Allen. 

[BillsFan692]

Just now, Allen2Moulds said:

I heard on WGR this morning that we ran playaction on 5 plays. The week before against MIA we ran playaction on 35%. I wish Dorsey would fall in love with playaction, the way he does with the shotgun draw up the middle. 

 

This eads me to the biggest 2 issues with Dorsey, it comes down to things, that you alluded to.

 

1. Improper use of Personal (Hines last year, Kincaid and Hardy this year). 

 

2. Formation usage. When and how often to utilize formations.

 

 

It's not great probably to fall in love with certain schemes and over-force them, but you at least have to be willing to adjust when the game plan you brought in to work with is not getting it done in an entire half of football.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, BillsFan692 said:

It's not great probably to fall in love with certain schemes and over-force them, but you at least have to be willing to adjust when the game plan you brought in to work with is not getting it done in an entire half of football.

 

Somehow it was still 11-7 at the start of the 4th. 

 

Dorsey was awful yesterday. 

 

And where was McDermott yesterday to get on the radio and remind Dorsey that the Jags were up in TOP 30 to 15 at that point? 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[PBF81]

7 minutes ago, Process said:

You're the one whose "point" is completely irrelevant to this thread. 

 

Our offense hasn't been "really good" in 40% of our games this year. 

 

It's not irrelevant.  

 

It can be bad 40% of the time all season long.  Let's say we only win those other 60% of games.  10-7 

 

It's going to come down to how well we play in the playoff games.  If those four are good, we'll be fine.  

 

Out has been inconsistent, but there are no to excuses for the offense this season, and that's almost exclusively a coaching issue.  

 

But we refuse to see that, at least most here do, and we'll, so we're stuck, aren't we.  

 

You've heard me say it plenty, 10-7 is fine as long as our offense can string for good games together after that.  

 

15-2, 10-7, doesn't matter.  All that matters, and what our hopes hinge on, is whether or not we can string four good offensive games together in Jan/Feb.

 

If we can't were screwed either way.  

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's the reality.  

 

The talent is there.  Or OL is the best it's n been since most of us can remember.  Allen wasn't sacked once yesterday.  

 

If we can't get this right then it's obviously on Dorsey.  

 

But Sorry works for McD the last time I looked.  The things you mentioned would be easily correctable if McD simply told Dorsey to "start doing (this)" or "so doing (that).". 

 

So once again, McD is avoiding much criticism and blame here. 

 

If he's not capable of doing that, well ... 

 

 

 

OL has been better, but they weren't great yesterday.  No sacks has more to do with Allen and his ability to avoid them than how well the OL blocked.  And one big sack was negated by helmet to helmet contact.  Plus they had penalties that hurt us a lot too and we couldn't get anything going running the ball.

 

I don't know, its hard to put the play calling and use of personnel on McD when its Dorseys offense.  McD is already HC and DC, to expect him to have a heavy hand in the offense is unrealistic.  

[Donuts and Doritos]

What was our % of plays Josh under center play action yesterday? Felt lower than normal & that had been working for us & the % had been increasing prior to yesterday.

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Far too much variance in the offense.  I'm not pinning that all on Dorsey, but an Offense that goes 5 games.. blows out 3 teams and looks like a JV squad against the other 2, is not an Offense built for a Playoff run.  

 

Almost all of it should be pinned on Dorsey & McD.  But McD is untouchable, so there's that.  

 

 

[Yobogoya!]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

My issue with Dorsey is his insistence on ignoring the facts and talent.  Allen and the offense have been better with Allen under center yet we again ran a ton out of shotgun again.  I mean I think it was several drives in before Allen finally lined up under center.  
 

He is again not using the talent well either.  For all this two TE attack talk, we once again ignore Knox is on this team and aren’t making much effort to get Kincaid the ball.  And for all the mismatches Kincaid is supposed to be creating, we keep throwing short passes to him only.  You don’t need a smooth athletic TE to throw 5 yard passes too.  You get a guy like him to put pressure upfield, down the seem, mid range…not just short dump offs.  
 

We are running two TE’s out there a lot, but we aren’t throwing to them like we are.  If you look at the stats of our TEs you would think we had one at a time out there and using them to block because neither is doing much as a receiver.  
 

And then there is tendency to make bone headed play calls.  I really thought the Miami game was turning of the corner, but he reverted back this week and it’s concerning.

 

Yeah I think there's enough anecdotal evidence from the last few years to say that Josh Allen is going to make any offense look great more often than he doesn't. 

 

The question has to be: what is Dorsey truly bringing to the table? 

 

Is he scheming up a unique offense where our dual TE's that we've heavily invested in are playmakers? 

 

Does he scheme up plays for our speedsters like Harty? Does he effectively get James Cook into open space?

 

How about that two point conversion yesterday? Most of the high caliber OC's have new / unique looks just for those situations. 

 

It's going to be hard to dig on the offense on a year to year basis as long as Allen is our QB, but that doesn't mean we aren't being held back and it certainly doesn't mean the offense isn't costing us games. As it is, I don't see how we can make up ground vs. KC when their division is a dumpster fire.

 

That 1 seed is a precious commodity and year after year we just can't take care of business and secure it. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Having a good offense with ***** play calling is just getting old.  If I see another shotgun draw to cook....

[Allen2Moulds]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

It's not great probably to fall in love with certain schemes and over-force them, but you at least have to be willing to adjust when the game plan you brought in to work with is not getting it done in an entire half of football.

I agree, but as others here have stated, 35-40% of the time seems to be a good target. We are so good under center, that it's mind boggling, that it's not our base.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Allen2Moulds