As we all hate on Ken Dorsey today let’s remember

[BillMafia716ix]

The Bills offense is better when they can run the football!! They didn’t establish the run game and became one dimensional. We still haven’t figured out our slot WR position post Cole Beasley. I thought Kincaid was suppose to be that guy but they seem to just throw check downs to him. Still no role for Deonte Harty, or Sherfield. I have no idea what they are doing with Khalil Shakir. 
 

Ken Dorsey is not scheming the offense around his personnel. Make me wonder if Brandon Beane and Dorsey are on the same page because the guys that Brandon Beane has brought in are having zero impact in the offense. 

[BillzFreak]

1 minute ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Having a good offense with ***** play calling is just getting old.  If I see another shotgun draw to cook....

Exactly players can make plays but it's Dorseys job to exploit matchups and take advantage of teams weaknesses. If it was just all on the players offensive coordinators wouldn't exist in football. If the players can get flamed the coaching clearly should get burned as well.

[starrymessenger]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

OL has been better, but they weren't great yesterday.  No sacks has more to do with Allen and his ability to avoid them than how well the OL blocked.  And one big sack was negated by helmet to helmet contact.  Plus they had penalties that hurt us a lot too and we couldn't get anything going running the ball.

 

I don't know, its hard to put the play calling and use of personnel on McD when its Dorseys offense.  McD is already HC and DC, to expect him to have a heavy hand in the offense is unrealistic.  

And I really don't think that's McD's skillset anyways.

[BruceVilanch]

Every time I F up with my wife I whip out my chart and tell her, "Statistically I'm a good husband" works everytime.

[Jerome007]

29 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

The problem with our offense is consistency, and it's a fatal flaw IMO.

 

By the end of the year it will be ranked very high but the ride there will be a rollercoaster with several duds mixed in.  That type of variance is not the way to get through a single elimination tournament.  One dud and we're going home.

Sure, i agree, yet you realize the Dolphins don't win every game with 70 points, or that the Chiefs and all don't score every drive?

 

The misuse of TE, the overuse of shotgun, the late adjusting to what the Jags were doing... it's all fair points, on the mark. But lack of consistency? Again the stats show it was quite the decent showing, and no team scores on every drive except the Bills against The Cheats (yesssss!). I recall the board on here a few years back constantly moaning when Josh hadn't had a 300 yard game yet. Now it's so routine people complain about other things...

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I don't know, its hard to put the play calling and use of personnel on McD when its Dorseys offense.  McD is already HC and DC, to expect him to have a heavy hand in the offense is unrealistic.  

 

The offensive play-calling was problematic.

 

But my original point was in response to the issues that you mentioned, which are all categorically correctable simply by making the decisions to either do or not do them.

 

They're also not complicated and not something that requires experts in offense.  Any boob that watches football regularly knows the issues.  Hell, my wife walks in during the game at one point and says why are they running these plays.  

 

If a head coach can't figure these trivial issues out, then he's not a great head coach.  Same for Dorsey, but since Dorsey seems to struggle with it, it's on McD to tell him what to change.   Which makes it's own statement about Dorsey.  A few more games like this on the play-calling end and he won't be around after this season.  

 

But why hasn't McD told him to take his head out of his arse on this?  

 

The talent is there for this offense to be the best in the league, prolific and record-seeing.  If that cannot be achieved this season, then the only thing holding it back will have been coaching, and given what you said, that includes McD.  

 

Right now or hopes for a Lombardi are directly tied to optimizing or offense.  

 

 

[BillzFreak]

2 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Sure, i agree, yet you realize the Dolphins don't win every game with 70 points, or that the Chiefs and all don't score every drive?

 

The misuse of TE, the overuse of shotgun, the late adjusting to what the Jags were doing... it's all fair points, on the mark. But lack of consistency? Again the stats show it was quite the decent showing, and no team scores on every drive except the Bills against The Cheats (yesssss!). I recall the board on here a few years back constantly moaning when Josh hadn't had a 300 yard game yet. Now it's so routine people complain about other things...

I'm personally over just stats...winning here is what matters. Let the tv "experts" worry about style points. The game was there for the taking and we didn't take it. 

[Charles Romes]

I can’t believe how easily the Bills O fell for the “let them catch it short and converge” D. Looks like a blueprint.  They were baiting Allen with a wide open pass catcher short every play and he took the bait time after time. 

[warrior9]

The utter cries on this board after a loss is absolutely embarrassing. 

 

We traveled over seas with a 6 hour time difference 2 days before the game and played a team that has been there for 2 weeks. The field was awful and the jags had been practicing on it. They came out flat like 99% of all teams would in this scenario. The overseas games are a joke. 

 

The Bills will be fine. 

[HoofHearted]

58 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The offense is really good.

 

Fans man lol. We win and Dorsey is a god. We lose and he needs to be fired. Player execution isn’t even a thought lol.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

The utter cries on this board after a loss is absolutely embarrassing. 

 

We traveled over seas with a 6 hour time difference 2 days before the game and played a team that has been there for 2 weeks. The field was awful and the jags had been practicing on it. They came out flat like 99% of all teams would in this scenario. The overseas games are a joke. 

 

The Bills will be fine. 

this

[PBF81]

8 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

The Bills offense is better when they can run the football!! They didn’t establish the run game and became one dimensional. We still haven’t figured out our slot WR position post Cole Beasley. I thought Kincaid was suppose to be that guy but they seem to just throw check downs to him. Still no role for Deonte Harty, or Sherfield. I have no idea what they are doing with Khalil Shakir. 
 

Ken Dorsey is not scheming the offense around his personnel. Make me wonder if Brandon Beane and Dorsey are on the same page because the guys that Brandon Beane has brought in are having zero impact in the offense. 

 

Great points, but Torrence has made a huge impact.  

 

Expending a 1st-round pick that's on pace for 400 yards and 0 TDs begs criticism though.  

 

Seems the norm however, and for the life of me I have no idea why McD isn't taking more heat for it.  

 

He's the HEAD coach FFS.  

 

 

[BillzFreak]

5 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

The utter cries on this board after a loss is absolutely embarrassing. 

 

We traveled over seas with a 6 hour time difference 2 days before the game and played a team that has been there for 2 weeks. The field was awful and the jags had been practicing on it. They came out flat like 99% of all teams would in this scenario. The overseas games are a joke. 

 

The Bills will be fine. 

I agree but the loss of Milano is to me very bad. Yes it could of happened anywhere but for some reason it happening in England of all places is just making it worse for me..why idk it just is.

Edited October 9, 2023 by BillzFreak

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The offensive play-calling was problematic.

 

But my original point was in response to the issues that you mentioned, which are all categorically correctable simply by making the decisions to either do or not do them.

 

They're also not complicated and not something that requires experts in offense.  Any boob that watches football regularly knows the issues.  Hell, my wife walks in during the game at one point and says why are they running these plays.  

 

If a head coach can't figure these trivial issues out, then he's not a great head coach.  Same for Dorsey, but since Dorsey seems to struggle with it, it's on McD to tell him what to change.   Which makes it's own statement about Dorsey.  A few more games like this on the play-calling end and he won't be around after this season.  

 

But why hasn't McD told him to take his head out of his arse on this?  

 

The talent is there for this offense to be the best in the league, prolific and record-seeing.  If that cannot be achieved this season, then the only thing holding it back will have been coaching, and given what you said, that includes McD.  

 

Right now or hopes for a Lombardi are directly tied to optimizing or offense.  

 

 

 

I mean you don't know what McD has or hasn't said to Dorsey.  When Daboll was here, McD started calling him out in press conferences by saying they need to run the ball more and establish a run game even though Daboll was allergic to runniung the ball.  Daboll still didn't do it, and probably why there were reports of friction between the two. 

 

McD can tell Dorsey whatever he wants, but on gameday, Dorsey is in the booth calling the offense.  And Dorsey can say he is calling these, the guys just arent executing.  

 

So I just don't think its fair to hang offensive play calling on McD right now, especially when we are the 2nd highest scoring team in the league and coming off 3 straight wins of 28+ points or more.  Not shocking the HC won't be meddling in the OC's offense when its amongst the best in the league.  McD has his hands full between HC and DC responsibilities.

[Marcus Aurelius]

58 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

No debating the stats look good.  But the inconsistent performances, Jets and Jags, cost us 2 wins.

 

Even with a depleted defense, no excuse to get "shut down" in the 1st half.

 

I'm a Dorsey supporter, but he has to devise better plans than what we saw yesterday.  Not saying execution was great, but this offense went back to lacking identity/rhythm and that to me is more on coaching.

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

The utter cries on this board after a loss is absolutely embarrassing. 

 

We traveled over seas with a 6 hour time difference 2 days before the game and played a team that has been there for 2 weeks. The field was awful and the jags had been practicing on it. They came out flat like 99% of all teams would in this scenario. The overseas games are a joke. 

 

The Bills will be fine. 

 

Fine in what sense?

 

We're talking about significantly underachieving here.  

 

Getting less than we should be, with enough regularity that it should raise concerns.  

 

So sure, from the perspective of fans that are simply happy that Buffalo has a team and they enjoy the entertainment of it all, and $20 beer, for however long it lasts in a season, sure, they'll be fine.  

 

But for anyone hoping for a super Bowl win, these are likely terminal issues.  

 

THIS is exactly why we get out coached in the playoffs.  Hoping to have circumstances overcome coaching ineptness for four straight playoffs games, against the best teams, QBs, and coaches in the league is not a sound strategy.  

 

If we make the most of what we have, great.  But what we're seeing here is the opposite.  We're not making optimal use, far from it in fact, with what's at our disposal.  

 

Hence the criticism and distraction, which frankly, is warranted.  

 

 

[Dopey]

59 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

No debating the stats look good.  But the inconsistent performances, Jets and Jags, cost us 2 wins.

 

Even with a depleted defense, no excuse to get "shut down" in the 1st half.

 

I'm a Dorsey supporter, but he has to devise better plans than what we saw yesterday.  Not saying execution was great, but this offense went back to lacking identity/rhythm and that to me is more on coaching.

The jets game was all on Allen. Dorsey called plays that left Josh with multiple open options. Josh decided not to utilize them. 

[BruceVilanch]

11 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Fans man lol. We win and Dorsey is a god. We lose and he needs to be fired. Player execution isn’t even a thought lol.

I think several members here are unhinged enough to think about executing players.

[PBF81]

19 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

And I really don't think that's McD's skillset anyways.

 

If it's not in the skillset of a head coach to be able to identify the simple things that we're identifying here, then it's time for a new head coach.  

 

Sorry, but that's the truth.  

 

The issues of the offense yesterday were obvious to anyone watching.  

 

 

[Dopey]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Great points, but Torrence has made a huge impact.  

 

Expending a 1st-round pick that's on pace for 400 yards and 0 TDs begs criticism though.  

 

Seems the norm however, and for the life of me I have no idea why McD isn't taking more heat for it.  

 

He's the HEAD coach FFS.  

 

 

Cuz most people don’t expect pro bowl seasons from rookies. Then there are people here who complain about a rookie not being all pro. Most of them wrote Bernard off after his rookie season. Give it a rest already. 

[BillzFreak]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

If it's not in the skillset of a head coach to be able to identify the simple things that we're identifying here, then it's time for a new head coach.  

 

Sorry, but that's the truth.  

 

The issues of the offense yesterday were obvious to anyone watching.  

 

 

We can all arm chair gm and Monday morning quarterback, I am not at the level of anyone who coaches or plays the game. So my opinions and fixes for this team aren't anything but opinions. We can say it's easy to see and this is how you fix it but in reality we aren't at the level of knowledge in football that Nfl players and coaching staffs are.

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

If it's not in the skillset of a head coach to be able to identify the simple things that we're identifying here, then it's time for a new head coach.  

 

Sorry, but that's the truth.  

 

The issues of the offense yesterday were obvious to anyone watching.  

 

 

Well yeah but if they seem obvious to the dedicated fanbase they must be so also to everyone at OBD (and not just McD but to Dorsey himself). I think McD probably gives his coordinators a lot of autonomy and I actually respect that in him. The problem is that maybe Frazier and especially Dorsey are not always quite up to snuff. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The offense is really good.

 

 

Cool chart. where can I plot ELEVEN FRICKIN POINTS?

[Warcodered]

I will say this this when I think about this week, as far as game planning goes, we did kind of get shafted basically getting a short week while the Jaguars got the whole thing, surprise having a whole 2 weeks in London was an advantage ***** you Goodell.

 

Still felt like we stubbornly refused to adjust when the Jaguars defensive gameplan was clearly working against us most of the game.

[PBF81]

55 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

And our offense has lost playoff games too.  

 

Not in a regular basis.  And which game did it cost us besides the Bengals game last season?  And you did realize that the only reason we even played that game was because of the offense, right?   

 

The offense has been responsible for the playoff success that we have had.  

 

 

[Warcodered]

46 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

It would be really great if our media could ask Dorsey what the heck he was thinking with this sequence:

 

11-7 Jags 

 

14:00 min left in the 4th quarter. 

 

TOP to that point was 29 minutes Jags, 15 minutes Bills. 

 

We go:

 

Kincaid for 14 yards

 

Harris up the middle for 5 yards. 

 

2nd-5 - We bring in 3 Tight Ends and try to throw to Q.Morris? Dawkins gets flagged for holding. Now 2nd-15.

 

2nd-15: Misfire to Knox. 

 

3rd-15: Allen bomb deep to Diggs out of desperation to try and make anything happen - INT. 

 

We take a grand total of 1:30 off the clock and the defense is forced to go right back on the field. 

 

Jags brutalize the Bills and go up 18-7. Game over. 

 

 

 

But don't worry Bills fans, since that delayed draw to Cook was working so well, we tried it again with 5:00 to go down 18-13 for -2 yards and a complete waste of 30-seconds. 

 

 

Instead Buffalo media will ask Dorsey about if he is tired today and jet lagged from going to London, and his general feelings towards Josh Allen. 

Well you see it was the last thing they'd expect...because it was so incredibly stupid. I mean clearly they're spotting this play somehow so what's the hope, that they think "Come on you can't possibly be this brain damaged, clearly this is a trap."

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Cuz most people don’t expect pro bowl seasons from rookies. Then there are people here who complain about a rookie not being all pro. Most of them wrote Bernard off after his rookie season. Give it a rest already. 

 

No, but people do expect a 1st-round pick that was made with numerous other needs on the team, to actually play and be used effectively and to their strengths, particularly when they demonstrate that they're quite capable.  

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

47 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Lacks consistency. The D. is consistently good game to game for the most part. The O. Is either really good or meh.

When they decide to run more Murray/Harris, sprinkle in a little Cook then you will see the difference in the offense. You have to let teams like the Jets and Jags that you can be PHYSICAL too. Let them know we have the guys that can maul you and we have a Diggs/Allen combo that can DESTROY you. Kinda like the Niners do except Purdy is NO JOSH ALLEN

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

We can all arm chair gm and Monday morning quarterback, I am not at the level of anyone who coaches or plays the game. So my opinions and fixes for this team aren't anything but opinions. We can say it's easy to see and this is how you fix it but in reality we aren't at the level of knowledge in football that Nfl players and coaching staffs are.

 

Implying that McD is helpless to correct offensive issues is ridiculous, which is the general take here.

 

IF that's truly reality, then sorry, but it's time for a head coach than can do that given the ridiculous underachievement/inconsistency on the offensive side.  

 

 

[TheBrownBear]

Numbers are numbers, but there's two big things working against Dorsey from a fan appreciation perspective:

 

1. Aesthetics - You watch teams like Miami, San Francisco, KC and Philly and you just salivate over all of the interesting motions and pre-snap looks they give, how often they scheme guys wide open and how many of their weapons they are able to get involved and consistently utilize.  It just looks so easy for them.  I get it.  They've got a lot of talent, but I'd argue that we do as well.  We know what guys like Knox and Cook can look like (Harty is trending there too) when they are put in good positions to make plays.  Far too often, things look "hard" for the Bills' offense.  Maybe it's just Josh holding it too long, but the play design doesn't inspire confidence in Dorsey.

 

2. We have a HOF truly unicornesque QB in his a prime paired with a HOF borderline GOAT route-running WR in his prime.  This offense should be top-5 by default based on those two pieces (paired with a competent o-line, of course) alone.  You see what a guy like Daboll did with them versus what he's working with now. He went from league darling to what looks like a bottom-3 offensive mind in 18 months.  It's hard to shake the feeling that we couldn't replace Dorsey with pretty much any NFL offensive coordinator and get similar or better results.  

Edited October 9, 2023 by TheBrownBear

[Billsatlastin2018]

“The offense is really good.”

 

Sometimes… usually against the stiffs, losers and also rans!

 

And sometimes, it’s like it’s designed by as someone said…Temp Sports guy from Buff State.”

 

Cook is a failure- negative yards yesterday. A terribly wasted draft pick, way too small to get through any holes and use his speed.

 

And, it’s the TE thingee- stupid! We were supposed to see Kelce/Kittle light! Instead we’ve got Tommy Sweeney and all his clown incarnations!
 

A TE combined 5 catches for barely 35 yards! 0 TDs

Kittle- 3 for 67, 3 TDs

Kelce- 10 for 67, 1 TD.

 

The Offense is offensive… insipid! 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not in a regular basis.  And which game did it cost us besides the Bengals game last season?  And you did realize that the only reason we even played that game was because of the offense, right?   

 

The offense has been responsible for the playoff success that we have had.  

 

 

 

The KC Chiefs AFCCG our offense was lousy.  The week before, it was lousy against the Ravens but our defense came through.

 

The defense kept us in the game last year against the Dolphins.  The Dolphins didn't move the ball all game but we gifted them with 3 turnovers that brought them right back in the game.  One turnover lead directly to a TD on a fumble recovered, the INT put the Dolphins in the redzone and the other gave them the ball at midfield.  Not to mention a punt returned in or close to the redzone.  

 

Our offense played well in the first half but let the Dolphins back in and the defense kept it from getting out of control.  

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Well yeah but if they seem obvious to the dedicated fanbase they must be so also to everyone at OBD (and not just McD but to Dorsey himself). I think McD probably gives his coordinators a lot of autonomy and I actually respect that in him. The problem is that maybe Frazier and especially Dorsey are not always quite up to snuff. 

 

That's the point, it's also his job to perhaps not give as much autonomy, or step in to correct if the OC isn't cutting it.

 

Either way, him getting a complete pass because "he's a defensive minded coach" had gotten old and is immediately at this point.  

 

Maybe time for an offensive-minded head coach then given the absurd wealth of talent we have on offense, and FINALLY, this cannot possibly be overstated, a decent OL.  

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

[Jrb1979]

What I want to know is how come other offenses seem to always have a guy wide open constantly and make big plays and the Bills struggle with it?

 

Look at yesterday, Ridley was constantly wide open and made big plays down the field. Add in Etienne making big gains on the ground.

 

Why can't the Bills offense do that?

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Missing the details. Shotgun draw to Cook  goes for negative. 

He ran that same play in jets stadium on 2nd and 15 in ot also...no gain 😆 

1 minute ago, Jrb1979 said:

What I want to know is how come other offenses seem to always have a guy wide open constantly and make big plays and the Bills struggle with it?

 

Look at yesterday, Ridley was constantly wide open and made big plays down the field. Add in Etienne making big gains on the ground.

 

Why can't the Bills offense do that?

Bc we have an unqualified OC put into his position by a HC who doesn't even want to be bothered by the offense

[BillzFreak]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Implying that McD is helpless to correct offensive issues is ridiculous, which is the general take here.

 

IF that's truly reality, then sorry, but it's time for a head coach than can do that given the ridiculous underachievement/inconsistency on the offensive side.  

 

 

Again we have no idea if McDermott already told Dorsey if this is how he wants the offense to run. This already may be on McDermott is all I'm saying. And if that's the case the coaching is done and dusted and we may be out of answers. We blame dorsey and say McDermott needs to step in and fix it but this shorter pass game and not letting Josh really run might of been his call.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

What I want to know is how come other offenses seem to always have a guy wide open constantly and make big plays and the Bills struggle with it?

 

Look at yesterday, Ridley was constantly wide open and made big plays down the field. Add in Etienne making big gains on the ground.

 

Why can't the Bills offense do that?

Diggs is often open in similar situations

 

and Ridley is a very good wideout in his own right

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The KC Chiefs AFCCG our offense was lousy.  The week before, it was lousy against the Ravens but our defense came through.

 

The Ravens game is the one game, but we wouldn't have even been there without the O.  

 

In that Chiefs game, spin it as you have, the defense was far worse.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

The defense kept us in the game last year against the Dolphins.  The Dolphins didn't move the ball all game but we gifted them with 3 turnovers that brought them right back in the game.  One turnover lead directly to a TD on a fumble recovered, the INT put the Dolphins in the redzone and the other gave them the ball at midfield.  Not to mention a punt returned in or close to the redzone.  

 

Our offense played well in the first half but let the Dolphins back in and the defense kept it from getting out of control.  

 

Skylar Thompson 

 

 

[starrymessenger]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's the point, it's also his job to perhaps not give as much autonomy, or step in to correct if the OC isn't cutting it.

 

Either way, him getting a complete pass because "he's a defensive minded coach" had gotten old and is immediately at this point.  

 

Maybe time for an offensive-minded head coach then given the absurd wealth of talent we have on offense, and FINALLY, this cannot possibly be overstated, a decent OL.  

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

I think McD is an outstanding defensive mind and coach, sorta like Bill. I wouldn't want to lose that. What he needs is an OC who can pull his weight and be on his level. He doesn't have that. Dorsey isn't there yet.

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

Again we have no idea if McDermott already told Dorsey if this is how he wants the offense to run. This already may be on McDermott is all I'm saying. And if that's the case the coaching is done and dusted and we may be out of answers. We blame dorsey and say McDermott needs to step in and fix it but this shorter pass game and not letting Josh really run might of been his call.

 

All we know is that the reasons need to be addressed from the top down.  

 

If there's been one common theme to our weaknesses on McD's watch, it's been inconsistency, for which preparation is a huge factor.  

 

That's all but exclusively a coaching issue.