Singular point imo when Josh started regressing

[Motorin']

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Kincaid had 4 catches.  And Josh will not suck like he did Monday.  Things will come together.

 

The Jets D is Josh's kryptonite. And there's only a few teams that can play that way. 

 

And I think one of the reasons that defense is so effective is bc he's lacking weapons to get open against it outside of Diggs.  

 

I like Kincaid. I was really hoping for Jordan Addison when he was still on the board at 23. I think that's the kind of route runner that he had when Bease was still at the top of his game that he needs to be able to overcome the best defenses in the league.

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, finn said:

Beane and McDermott are blowing it. They have what could be a Hall of Fame QB, and they misusing him. His genius is the deep ball, improvisation, and running. But instead of a) protecting him; b) giving him deep weapons; and c) leveraging his running, which terrifies other teams, they're unilaterally disarming him and the team. The O-line an afterthought; NO top receivers besides Diggs; and no more run plays for him, with scrambling heavily discouraged. 

 

In short, they're collaborating with other teams to neuter this unicorn of a QB, a true generational talent used properly. What a travesty. 

Try again.  Teams right now know Josh is prone to going off schedule to throw the deep ball, so they are playing for it.  They are baiting him.  And last week he fell for it. 
 

Dorsey is calling different route trees and it’s up to Josh to read them.  When he takes the easier routes it will then force the D to come up more and open deeper routes.  We know Diggs can get deep as can Davis.  And they are trying to protect him from getting hurt by running too much.  There is a balance between freeing him up and not taking unnecessary chances, and was highlighted by him trying to jump over two guys 5 yards before the first down marker.  We all love Josh but he stunk Monday.  He’ll play better.

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Jets D is Josh's kryptonite. And there's only a few teams that can play that way. 

 

And I think one of the reasons that defense is so effective is bc he's lacking weapons to get open against it outside of Diggs.  

 

I like Kincaid. I was really hoping for Jordan Addison when he was still on the board at 23. I think that's the kind of route runner that he had when Bease was still at the top of his game that he needs to be able to overcome the best defenses in the league.

 

 

 

Kincaid can run the underneath stuff Beasley ran.  I think Sherfield can as well.  But Josh has to trust it.

[Eastport bills]

This is the mindless overreaction scenario to a really disappointing performance by a QB in the first game of the season. Congratulations, you uncovered the chronology of the breakdown of an All Pro QB, who went 13and 3 in a year where the team faced emotional challenges unlike any in the history of the league along with losing their best defensive player. Besides leading the league in TDs and winning the division the last 3 seasons, the guy is the unquestioned leader of the team. He deserves better than this foolishness served up by our unappreciative experts that try and cast doubt on a guy the turned this downtrodden franchise into winners. Maybe it was the risotto he ate after the Packers game that started his downward spiral. He did have a sour stomach for days after.

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

One thing I noticed rewatching the game is that even though our o-line played okay, it still wasn’t enough time for our clear-out receivers to keep the Jets defense honest.

 

Part of this is because we simply do not have very fast receivers. Gabe, Diggs and Sherfield all run around a 4.5. Kincaid around 4.7.

 

The longer it takes for the clear out receiver to get vertical, the longer the line has to hold.

If the clear out doesn’t get deep enough, he doesn’t make the safety (or zone CB) hesitate or gravitate toward him, and you get what we got on Monday night. Felt like defenders were everywhere because spacing was thrown off.

 

It feels like we either need to get some faster receivers who can get vertical quicker, or we need a line that can hold even longer.

We don’t have any Cheetah equivalents, but the receivers are plenty fast. Knox and Kincaid are mid 4.5 guys. Diggs, Sherfield, Harty, and Shakir are all around mid 4.4s. James Cook too if you want to include him. The issue isn’t speed, it’s delivering the ball on time to the receiver who has the biggest advantage based on that defensive look. That’s not happening right now. Spacing could also be an issue as you and Kurt Warner have pointed out. That is on Dorsey.

[PBF81]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

saying McD and Beane are bums is not as controversial as you make it out to be lmao

 

Well, "bums" isn't the word I used.  LOL  Either way, it's hardly a popular narrative here.  

 

As my suspicions go however and as I've stated numerous times, I expect it to increase in popularity during and after this season.  

 

McD is fine as a "cheerleading" coach, and this "winning culture" thing, LOL, ... honestly.  Any team that posts winning seasons regularly qualifies as having a "winning culture."  It's a ridiculously soft measure.  

 

If one measures coaches by having their teams fully prepared going into games, particularly playoff games, making half-time adjustments, out-strategizing their peers, etc., McD's not anywhere near the top.  It's rare to hear about how McD out X's-n-O's the opponents.  We rely on better talent and Allen to win games.  That's not particular to coaching.  

 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Need new coaches around him, not yes men who don't want to hurt Joshy's feelings.

 

Tua and Hurts are not as good but they are winning because they run the play as called. Very efficient. Mahomes has the most creative plays and his guys are typically wide open. It starts with good coaching and the discipline to efficiently run the play. When you are running around in chaos then it's not a surprise that the outcome is often chaos!

Also starts with getting Josh some real help. Which is basically coaching and personnel. He needs a bigger stronger Oline he needs a real running back not this imposter we got in the backfield he also needs a real burner on the outside and more Wrs that can get Yac . Basically other then a few we got to change the whole offense. The players we must keep are Allen, Diggs, Kincaid and Torrence every one else pretty much can be replaced including Dawkins at LT. I’m not saying all this needs to be done in 1 off-season but definitely needs to get started soon. 

[Brandon]

12 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

32 picks in two years , most of any QB. It isn't one game.

 

That's true,  but it's also somewhat a function of throwing more passes than most other teams.  Matt Stafford had a higher interception percentage than Josh Allen in both 2021 and 2022 (Allen was 17th and 24th, respectively).  Stafford led the league in total INTs in 2021.  They won the Super Bowl that year. 

 

These days,   QBs are throwing so few interceptions that a few more than average is not necessarily the end of the world. 

[Motorin']

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Try again.  Teams right now know Josh is prone to going off schedule to throw the deep ball, so they are playing for it.  They are baiting him.  And last week he fell for it. 
 

Dorsey is calling different route trees and it’s up to Josh to read them.  When he takes the easier routes it will then force the D to come up more and open deeper routes.  We know Diggs can get deep as can Davis.  And they are trying to protect him from getting hurt by running too much.  There is a balance between freeing him up and not taking unnecessary chances, and was highlighted by him trying to jump over two guys 5 yards before the first down marker.  We all love Josh but he stunk Monday.  He’ll play better.

Kincaid can run the underneath stuff Beasley ran.  I think Sherfield can as well.  But Josh has to trust it.

 

He's going to play better this week because the Raiders don't have as good of LB's, CB's and Safeties as the Jets. 

 

The most the Bills could have scored last week was 16-19 points, even if Allen doesn't make any of the hero ball throws.

 

 

[Brand J]

4 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Also starts with getting Josh some real help. Which is basically coaching and personnel. He needs a bigger stronger Oline he needs a real running back not this imposter we got in the backfield he also needs a real burner on the outside and more Wrs that can get Yac . Basically other then a few we got to change the whole offense. The players we must keep are Allen, Diggs, Kincaid and Torrence every one else pretty much can be replaced including Dawkins at LT. I’m not saying all this needs to be done in 1 off-season but definitely needs to get started soon. 

I believe Josh will be fine in time, but if he needs an entire offensive overhaul he’s not the guy. That’s something you’d say about a Blake Bortles, not a supposed top 2/3 QB in the game. The personnel he has now is more than adequate to win the Super Bowl this year. Is his play caller more than adequate? Is the HC more than adequate? Is Josh himself disciplined enough to deliver a championship? That’s what we’ll find out in the coming months. 

[78thealltimegreat]

One thing I could never figure out you have a qb that loves to just air it out and play hero ball why have they never gotten a receiver who makes contested catches?

I mean Steff is terrific but he’s 6 foot in Gene Simmons Kiss platform shoes he’s not the type to outleap a DB much less the others guys.
 

[finn]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Try again.  Teams right now know Josh is prone to going off schedule to throw the deep ball, so they are playing for it.  They are baiting him.  And last week he fell for it. 
 

Dorsey is calling different route trees and it’s up to Josh to read them.  When he takes the easier routes it will then force the D to come up more and open deeper routes.  We know Diggs can get deep as can Davis.  And they are trying to protect him from getting hurt by running too much.  There is a balance between freeing him up and not taking unnecessary chances, and was highlighted by him trying to jump over two guys 5 yards before the first down marker.  We all love Josh but he stunk Monday.  He’ll play better.

Kincaid can run the underneath stuff Beasley ran.  I think Sherfield can as well.  But Josh has to trust it.

I'm not saying he should only throw deep. I'm saying he can't throw deep (without turnovers or sacks) because Beane hasn't given him the weapons or the protection he needs to do so. As for running, he can't be as reckless as he has been, but designed runs and scrambles that end with a slide should remain a key part of his arsenal.

 

Teams can take away the deep ball because Beane has given Allen only one receiver and they can pressure Allen instantly because Beane has been fine with mediocrities like Brown and Saffold. And the don't have to worry about his incredibly effective scrambling now because McDermott has now taken that off the table, unilaterally. 

 

I stand by what I said: Beane and McDermott don't understand what they have in Allen. They're playing to his weaknesses and neglecting or even discouraging his strengths. And we're seeing the result: cognitive (and physical) dissonance. 

[zow2]

I don’t see regression as much as i see, every D coordinator has amassed enough footage of Josh Allen, his tendencies, his weaknesses, and they ARE slowing him down.  That’s why the greatest QBs of all time are who they are.  Those QBs have overcome all the game planning against them and disguises, etc.  Josh hasn’t really adjusted although he did OK with the short passes the other night. He’s struggling throwing it long.  

Right now Tua is the hot QB.  He will get figured out even with his stable of great WRs.  We will see if he can overcome it,  it’s always a chess match.

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

I am patiently waiting for Josh this Sunday to go off.  I'm so sick of this BS regression narrative 😒 

[Rigotz]

This is a great take. The most likely reason for his regression was definitely a random hit in the Packers game which made him lose confidence.

 

Anyone saying it was the torn UCL in his throwing arm is a fool.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

Knox and Kincaid are mid 4.5 guys.

 

Just FYI - Knox and Kincaid were both timed between 4.65 and 4.7. Fine for a Tight End, but certainly not clear-out quickness.

 

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

The issue isn’t speed, it’s delivering the ball on time to the receiver who has the biggest advantage based on that defensive look. That’s not happening right now. Spacing could also be an issue as you and Kurt Warner have pointed out. 

 

I agree with you, but I think it is a bit of both.

Here is an example of what I was mentioning earlier.

 

 

See this mess of 3 defenders on the Orange and Green routes? This happened because:
 

1) The orange route didn't get vertical enough, quickly enough, which put no pressure on the safety to cover the endzone, resulting in the safety coming down and being able to be a third defender. 

 

2) If you look at Allen, he is about to get smacked by a Jets defender. So we have a situation where Allen has to get rid of the ball, but the clear out receiver has cleared nothing out. He actually did the opposite - he made it a mess, and this is what ensures. It's amazing this actually turned out okay.

By the time the ball gets to the receiver, there are 4 defenders there. If you don't make a team defend every part of the field, they won't. And that results in a densely populated field to operate your offense.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Einstein

[BananaB]

Last year in December we had to sign two WRs Josh was comfortable with because lack of trust in supporting cast. It was as an unusual situation but it highlighted problems. Beane just never did enough to fix it. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by BananaB

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Jets D is Josh's kryptonite. And there's only a few teams that can play that way. 

 

And I think one of the reasons that defense is so effective is bc he's lacking weapons to get open against it outside of Diggs.  

 

I like Kincaid. I was really hoping for Jordan Addison when he was still on the board at 23. I think that's the kind of route runner that he had when Bease was still at the top of his game that he needs to be able to overcome the best defenses in the league.

 

 

 

 

I agree with all of that.... but getting guys open wasn't the problem on Monday. There were plenty of open throws if Josh wanted to make them.

[Dr.Sack]

They should commit to running the ball early in the game and force safeties to cheat forward then unleash the play action pass or bootlegs to get Josh moving. 

[Motorin']

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with all of that.... but getting guys open wasn't the problem on Monday. There were plenty of open throws if Josh wanted to make them.

 

No doubt the 2-3 terrible throws into double coverage and the panic double fumble lost the game. 

 

I haven't watched the All 22, but I'm not certain how open players other than Diggs were all game. 

 

To me it seemed like there were a lot of lazy routes from guys that didn't seem to think they were getting the ball. 

[Goin Breakdown]

This is all like a drought era family reunion. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

No doubt the 2-3 terrible throws into double coverage and the panic double fumble lost the game. 

 

I haven't watched the All 22, but I'm not certain how open players other than Diggs were all game. 

 

To me it seemed like there were a lot of lazy routes from guys that didn't seem to think they were getting the ball. 

 

There were plenty of open guys. Honestly. Diggs wasn't actually open that much because as soon as he edged towards a defender's zone, that defender was on him. There were plays where Diggs was triple covered.

 

That isn't to say that the wide receiver were perfect by any means.... but the Bills had open receivers in the short and intermediate zones plenty on Monday. Josh just wasn't throwing to them.

[DrDawkinstein]

If I'm going full conspiracy theory, then I'm looking at the week BEFORE the Packers game. The Bye week.

 

Josh had a big Halloween party at his place Saturday night of the Bye.. Practically the entire team was there.

 

Something happened at that party that changed the course of the team.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

If I'm going full conspiracy theory, then I'm looking at the week BEFORE the Packers game. The Bye week.

 

Josh had a big Halloween party at his place Saturday night of the Bye.. Practically the entire team was there.

 

Something happened at that party that changed the course of the team.

 

That is rumoured to be where Brit confronted him about the alleged affair in front of teammates, right? 

 

I don't know how true any of that way but that was the timing rumoured in that thread. It was at the Halloween Party.

[BananaB]

How about shortly after our proven players left and we started gambling with our WRs outside of Diggs. Beas, Sanders and Brown were all proven, we knew what we’d get out of them and for the most part they were easily trusted. I understand Gabe and McKenzie deserved a shot but it didn’t worked out as expected. You think it would be lesson learned. Then instead of trying to grab guys we know can help we gambled on other guys and doubled down on Gabe. To be honest I’d rather a player who done it consistently before and another late round draft pick on the roster the Sherfield and Harty. Adding a 5’6 WR who might just be a gadget guy seems to be a luxury addition if you don’t have many problems. Kind of like trading for an undersized RB mid season when it’s obvious you need a bruiser. 

[Success]

3 minutes ago, BananaB said:

How about shortly after our proven players left and we started gambling with our WRs outside of Diggs. Beas, Sanders and Brown were all proven, we knew what we’d get out of them and for the most part they were easily trusted. I understand Gabe and McKenzie deserved a shot but it didn’t worked out as expected. You think it would be lesson learned. Then instead of trying to grab guys we know can help we gambled on other guys and doubled down on Gabe. To be honest I’d rather a player who done it consistently before and another late round draft pick on the roster the Sherfield and Harty. Adding a 5’6 WR who might just be a gadget guy seems to be a luxury addition if you don’t have many problems. Kind of like trading for an undersized RB mid season when it’s obvious you need a bruiser. 

 

The WR corps is fine.  Other great QB's have won titles with less.

 

The issue in the 1st week was more the decision-making.  

 

[Low Positive]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is rumoured to be where Brit confronted him about the alleged affair in front of teammates, right? 

 

I don't know how true any of that way but that was the timing rumoured in that thread. It was at the Halloween Party.

That simply cannot be true. That story is worth too much to the likes of TMZ for it to not be public by now. I never believe in any conspiracy where lots of people are keeping a secret that would be worth a lot of money. And anyway, if this is causing Josh to lose focus, he's too mentally weak to be an NFL QB. Brady broke up with Bridget Moynahan in December 2006 and went 16-0 in the 2007 NFL regular season.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, finn said:

I'm not saying he should only throw deep. I'm saying he can't throw deep (without turnovers or sacks) because Beane hasn't given him the weapons or the protection he needs to do so. As for running, he can't be as reckless as he has been, but designed runs and scrambles that end with a slide should remain a key part of his arsenal.

 

Teams can take away the deep ball because Beane has given Allen only one receiver and they can pressure Allen instantly because Beane has been fine with mediocrities like Brown and Saffold. And the don't have to worry about his incredibly effective scrambling now because McDermott has now taken that off the table, unilaterally. 

 

I stand by what I said: Beane and McDermott don't understand what they have in Allen. They're playing to his weaknesses and neglecting or even discouraging his strengths. And we're seeing the result: cognitive (and physical) dissonance. 

They understand, but want him to have a long and successful career.  They’re OK with calling runs but he has to slide and he doesn’t too many times.  He can scramble, just get out of bounds or slide.  And I’m sorry, but if you haven’t seen the number of long passes he’s completed to both Diggs and  Davis the past several years then I’m not sure what team you’ve been watching.

 

They are taking away the deep ball not because of our receiver’s deficiencies, but because they think Josh will eventually make a mistake and force it into coverage.  We all love Josh but he has room to improve.  We love his competitiveness, but guys like Brady and Manning were as competitive as any guys who ever played and they were all time greats because they mixed physical talent with smarts.  Josh is maybe the most physically talented guy ever but still needs to learn to play smarter.

[BananaB]

7 minutes ago, Success said:

 

The WR corps is fine.  Other great QB's have won titles with less.

 

The issue in the 1st week was more the decision-making.  

 

Until the WRs prove themselves you can’t say they’re fine. Gabe has proven to be inconsistent, adding someone we know we can rely on would probably helped him. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Put Josh under center way more often and it will solve nearly all of the offensive problems

 

Things will become simplified under center not to mention improve the run game and play action. Also he will likely know when he can improvise quicker if his first couple reads are covered 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

That simply cannot be true. That story is worth too much to the likes of TMZ for it to not be public by now. I never believe in any conspiracy where lots of people are keeping a secret that would be worth a lot of money. And anyway, if this is causing Josh to lose focus, he's too mentally weak to be an NFL QB. Brady broke up with Bridget Moynahan in December 2006 and went 16-0 in the 2007 NFL regular season.

 

Yea I took all the offseason stuff with a pinch of salt. I only mention 'cos @DrDawkinstein mentioned the Halloween party. 

[finn]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They understand, but want him to have a long and successful career.  They’re OK with calling runs but he has to slide and he doesn’t too many times.  He can scramble, just get out of bounds or slide.  And I’m sorry, but if you haven’t seen the number of long passes he’s completed to both Diggs and  Davis the past several years then I’m not sure what team you’ve been watching.

 

They are taking away the deep ball not because of our receiver’s deficiencies, but because they think Josh will eventually make a mistake and force it into coverage.  We all love Josh but he has room to improve.  We love his competitiveness, but guys like Brady and Manning were as competitive as any guys who ever played and they were all time greats because they mixed physical talent with smarts.  Josh is maybe the most physically talented guy ever but still needs to learn to play smarter.

Agreed he has to play smarter. No question. But I would argue that those spectacular long balls to Davis would be double or triple in number if Davis was a true WR2--OR if Allen's protection were as good as Mahomes'. 

 

I'm overstating the case a bit, but the bottom line is that I think Beane would have done better securing an elite O-line and set of receivers for Allen than invest so much in the defense. I would trade a KC-quality line and a Bengals-quality WR corps for a weaker overall defense, wouldn't you? 

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, finn said:

Agreed he has to play smarter. No question. But I would argue that those spectacular long balls to Davis would be double or triple in number if Davis was a true WR2--OR if Allen's protection were as good as Mahomes'. 

 

I'm overstating the case a bit, but the bottom line is that I think Beane would have done better securing an elite O-line and set of receivers for Allen than invest so much in the defense. I would trade a KC-quality line and a Bengals-quality WR corps for a weaker overall defense, wouldn't you? 

I am always a proponent of building things up front.  Drafting Torrence was good, McGovern will be an upgrade.  I am not as negative on Brown as many but he needs to improve.  I would be looking at Bates for Morse; Morse gets bull rushed by big DTs.  
 

Cincy has one more year with those WRs but with Burrow’s new contract they won’t be able to afford it anymore.  When you find your great QB and have to pay him then that star QB has to make guys around him better.  You likely can afford one real star receiver.  Mahomes has Kelce, we have Diggs, Burrow will have Chase.  The Niners have done things differently having non-star QBs that can work in Shanahan’s system and allow $$ to be spent elsewhere.

Edited September 16, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, finn said:

Agreed he has to play smarter. No question. But I would argue that those spectacular long balls to Davis would be double or triple in number if Davis was a true WR2--OR if Allen's protection were as good as Mahomes'. 

 

I'm overstating the case a bit, but the bottom line is that I think Beane would have done better securing an elite O-line and set of receivers for Allen than invest so much in the defense. I would trade a KC-quality line and a Bengals-quality WR corps for a weaker overall defense, wouldn't you? 

I agree that the Bills needed to find a better #2 WR, but Chase and Higgins cannot be the standard. The Bengals WR room is only possible when everyone but the #3 is on a rookie contract. Now that they've had to pay Joe Burrow, something will have to give because they have to pay both WRs. Same thing in Miami. If Tua gets paid, they still have to pay Waddle and they're up against the cap. In retrospect, paying Von Miller that much money was a mistake, but we were coming off of the 13-second game where we couldn't lay a hand on Mahomes. It did seem like we were a pass rusher away. 

[DrDawkinstein]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is rumoured to be where Brit confronted him about the alleged affair in front of teammates, right? 

 

I don't know how true any of that way but that was the timing rumoured in that thread. It was at the Halloween Party.

 

25 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

That simply cannot be true. That story is worth too much to the likes of TMZ for it to not be public by now. I never believe in any conspiracy where lots of people are keeping a secret that would be worth a lot of money. And anyway, if this is causing Josh to lose focus, he's too mentally weak to be an NFL QB. Brady broke up with Bridget Moynahan in December 2006 and went 16-0 in the 2007 NFL regular season.

 

Yeah I dont know. I was mostly joking since there were so many pics from that party.

 

I dont buy into even 1% of that entire affair story.

[1ManRaid]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

I believe it was late in the 2nd half against the Packers prime time.  Diggs was on tilt pregame, Pack CB got in his head.  Hard hitting game.

 

Josh is attempting to score and gets hit hard by Packers defender.  In live time, I thought Josh got hurt.  Josh jumped up and said “I love this *****!”

 

2nd half against Pack, Josh and the offense sputtered.  Ever since that hit, most everything Bills attempt on offense looks ineffective.  For 2021 and 2022 first 5 games, Josh and the offense have been were on fire.  What happened?

 

I read Jacksonville was playing 2 Top against us in that baffling 9-6 loss 

 

For the record, the RT for the Jags was the same one who is now in the news about cheating for the Chiefs.  And yes, he was doing it just as bad back then.

 

5 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Yeh see his December 18th performance against the Fins to clinch the division where any qb that isn’t him loses that game.

The book on Josh is simple two of his three ints where because he was playing hero ball where in the past he would have scrambled for first downs he    was heaving it into double coverage. 
 

Teams are simply not going to give the bills the home run throw anymore. Even if it means a safety having to play centerfield every snap. This gets Josh frustrated and he doesn’t have the kinda receivers that when he does this can make a contested catch they are little mites out there. 

 

Gotta learn from the way Tua and the Fish took what the Chargers were giving them.  They were for some reason happy to give Tua his strength of throwing over the middle, until they panicked and started crashing the middle only to leave Hill open down the sidelines for easy TDs.

 

But as for our receivers being little mites who can't make contested catches?  Huh?  Diggs is no giant but he makes contested catches all the time.  Davis is a big boy who also makes them.  Then there's our tight ends, plenty of guys you must be confusing with our slot receivers.

[Radar]

Just as a reminder we've played one game. Monday night Josh was bad but can we give him a few more games please. 

[Big Blitz]

45 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If I'm going full conspiracy theory, then I'm looking at the week BEFORE the Packers game. The Bye week.

 

Josh had a big Halloween party at his place Saturday night of the Bye.. Practically the entire team was there.

 

Something happened at that party that changed the course of the team.

 

Nah they all were posting and sharing the pics from that party and talk about it fondly.  
 

 

 

It’s this: 

 

Dorsey has been figured out.  Davis is not evolving or becoming an elite 2.  No slot WR worth a ***t.  Still no real RB threat.  Oline complete disaster last year.  Josh got hurt. 
 

 

 

Meanwhile, around the AFC:

 

Burrow got a great oline to go with Mixon, Chase, and Higgins.  
 

Miami got McDaniel and Hill and lots of speed - a terrible matchup for our slow safeties. 
 

The Jets built the best D in the AFC.  

 

Lawrence got Pederson, Etienne, and Ridley.

Chiefs still the Chiefs.  
 

 

 

I think those teams have definitely caught the Bills and maybe passed them.  And that has impacted their mindset.  They know they may not have the best team anymore and can be beat whereas there was no question we were winning the division 2020-2021 and into 2022.  

That’s a McD and Beane issue.  The players aren’t stupid.  They flat out said they didn’t think they were beating the Bengals.  They were beat before they took the field.  
 

Maybe they really were beaten down by the injuries last year and Hamlin.  Maybe they’ve tuned out McD since 13 seconds, a questionable OC hire to appease Josh (really only explains Diggs), and then all the mystery post 13 seconds a year later the “stepping aside” of Frazier.  
 

Year 7 of McD folks.  Can’t keep coming up short every year before it becomes “who’s this guy anyway” in that locker room that Reid, Saleh, McD, Pederson (we’ll see), and Taylor keep running circles around.  

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Nah they all were posting and sharing the pics from that party and talk about it fondly.  
 

 

 

It’s this: 

 

Dorsey has been figured out.  Davis is not evolving or becoming an elite 2.  No slot WR worth a ***t.  Still no real RB threat.  Oline complete disaster last year.  Josh got hurt. 
 

 

 

Meanwhile, around the AFC:

 

Burrow got a great oline to go with Mixon, Chase, and Higgins.  
 

Miami got McDaniel and Hill and lots of speed - a terrible matchup for our slow safeties. 
 

The Jets built the best D in the AFC.  

 

Lawrence got Pederson, Etienne, and Ridley.

Chiefs still the Chiefs.  
 

 

 

I think those teams have definitely caught the Bills and maybe passed them.  And that has impacted their mindset.  They know they may not have the best team anymore and can be beat whereas there was no question we were winning the division 2020-2021 and into 2022.  

That’s a McD and Beane issue.  The players aren’t stupid.  They flat out said they didn’t think they were beating the Bengals.  They were beat before they took the field.  
 

Maybe they really were beaten down by the injuries last year and Hamlin.  Maybe they’ve tuned out McD since 13 seconds, a questionable OC hire to appease Josh (really only explains Diggs), and then all the mystery post 13 seconds a year later the “stepping aside” of Frazier.  
 

Year 7 of McD folks.  Can’t keep coming up short every year before it becomes “who’s this guy anyway” in that locker room that Reid, Saleh, McD, Pederson (we’ll see), and Taylor keep running circles around.  

Did you happen to see what the Browns D line did to the Bengals last week?

[Billl]

37 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Put Josh under center way more often and it will solve nearly all of the offensive problems

 

Things will become simplified under center not to mention improve the run game and play action. Also he will likely know when he can improvise quicker if his first couple reads are covered 

Things aren’t simplified under center at all. They put Josh in shotgun because it makes his reads easier.  He’s never been great at processing, so forcing him to backpedal, turn his back to play fake, etc. works against him.  

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, "bums" isn't the word I used.  LOL  Either way, it's hardly a popular narrative here.  

 

As my suspicions go however and as I've stated numerous times, I expect it to increase in popularity during and after this season.  

 

McD is fine as a "cheerleading" coach, and this "winning culture" thing, LOL, ... honestly.  Any team that posts winning seasons regularly qualifies as having a "winning culture."  It's a ridiculously soft measure.  

 

If one measures coaches by having their teams fully prepared going into games, particularly playoff games, making half-time adjustments, out-strategizing their peers, etc., McD's not anywhere near the top.  It's rare to hear about how McD out X's-n-O's the opponents.  We rely on better talent and Allen to win games.  That's not particular to coaching.  

 

 

That’s true. I think McD is in the top half of coaches at least personally.