Update: All -22 stuff Joe Marino Locked on Bills, Now Cover 1 w/ play breakdowns

[Simon]

1 minute ago, HardyBoy said:

That throw to Davis with Diggs right there into triple coverage basically was wild, even though it ultimately worked..it was weird. Why were diggs and Davis so close together?

 

I assumed Diggs made a mistake in the depth of his route.

But I'm just a guesser.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I'm telling you, this guy was trying to play hero ball to impress Hailee in his first game since they got together.

 

That actually did occur to me - to ask “who was watching that Josh was trying to impress?”

 

That went well (if so)

[Airseven]

58 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

If he's ignoring things then that's one thing.  

 

If he's struggling with it, it's altogether another, and a more serious thing.  

 

Exactly the distinction I’ve been considering. At this stage, I think it’s likely the latter. It’s not hero ball. It’s lack of preparation, confusion, and panic.

[MasterStrategist]

13 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I thought it was mostly a lane issue.

This is what I saw on the all-22.

 

Diggs motions across the formation.  Knox is now "inside" of Diggs and they run a double slant concept.  Knox clears and gets the LB to freeze, but the window was SUPER tight.  Reid anticipated that too, great read by him.  I thought backside, the dump off/swing to Cook could have been a 1st down throw (Mosely would have had to make a great play to get there).

 

It was a trend all night with Josh struggling on the LB reads/lanes, he was just too hesistant.  He made a great throw to Stef down the seam on 1, but he mostly didn't see it well.  

[Brand J]

I saw in the sack highlights where the Jets brought pressure and the pocket was collapsing, but it never caved in on him. Instead, Josh tried to take off running and caused the sack himself. I’m reminded that I see the same frenetic pocket collapsing all around Brady and Mahomes, but neither of those dudes panic like Josh. It’s like they know the rush won’t get to them in time, so they stand tall in there and make the throw. When there are avenues to escape - and there weren’t for Josh - that’s when you’ll see Mahomes do his loopty loops in the backfield until someone springs free.
 

Josh needs to become MUCH better in manipulating the pocket. That starts with having more trust in his OL, that even though things are collapsing all around him, it’s best to stand in there and make the throw because you’re not going to escape most of the time. Who knows how many potentially big plays were left on the table because he ran himself into a sack.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

New OC doing a bang up job.   

Why’d he draw up all those, roll out when you shouldn’t, don’t trust the pocket, throw off schedule into triple coverage plays?

 

that walk through must have been met with lots of questions 

[RyanC883]

Two words: sports psychologist.  JA is all over and has been 1/2 of last year and into this year.  The play calling is not great, but it’s not why we lost. 

[Old Coot]

I basically agree with your take but maybe Josh isn't panicking. Maybe it's because in the past he's been able to make plays by leaving the pocket and making time for someone to get open.

 

In any event he needs to be more disciplined in his pocket presence and his reads.

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I understand the idea of reading the defense but exactly how do QB's like Brady and Manning do it vs. how Allen is processing what he sees? 

Is there something basic he was doing that got unlearned?  Other than making bad choices maybe its why is he making bad choices?  I mean by the 2nd year any QB knows throwing into double or triple coverage is reckless, and also stupid.  So why is he doing it?  And how do they get the problem fixed?

One other change I might want to see is bringing the OC down to the field to get more face-to-face time and conversation between Dorsey and Allen. 

 

All we got is opinions so here you go.

 

Josh is very effective on simplified post snap reads when he has a pre snap tell. The best example I can give from this is the seam route to Diggs in the first half. Josh starts with his eyes left in almost exaggerated way. He's holding the safety. As he comes back he is almost so quick to release to Diggs it couldn't have been a post snap read. It was more, I'm going to hold the safety and when I come back if I have any window I'm throwing a cannon. I feel Daboll really positioned him to have a lot of these routes. So much pre snap motion, leading the league for most the time he was here. Extra consideration to his youth. In addition to the play structures, Josh is so damn good at play action and Daboll also knew that as well. It gives Josh timing and rhythm and again usually a simplified route structure. 

 

Now what if Josh drops back and he doesn't have any quick reads? Historically it was not uncommon for Josh to roll out. He created huge plays over the years scrambling toward the sideline and throwing downfield. If he didn't roll out he would gash you up the middle as rusher came at him with no gap integrity. With that said, when is the last time Allen hit Davis on a classic sideline toe tap or how often are we seeing Allen charge the middle of the line and steal 10 yards because a defense lacks gap discipline? Teams are no longer giving him these positive plays he got when he didn't know what to do with the football. I think he is fully aware these outlets are gone which in turn leads to a very uneasy QB in that initial drop back.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Mikie2times

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Joe Marino does a podcast which he also happens to post to youtube for people who only listen to it that way. That's why there aren't videos/graphics. It's a daily podcast, and sits alongside about 300 other football related things he does each week for work, including scouting hundreds of college players. That's why he doesn't have time to splice videos and make it all nice for you. But no doubt about it, the guy knows ball, you only need to listen to a few episodes to pick that up. 

 

If this was directed at me... I am sorry.  What I said came off wrong.  I have listened to his podcasts before.  I just don't think telling me something without showing me is going to do me much good.  It boils down to Allen had a bad game.  We all know that. If I am driving in the car, I enjoy a good podcast.  When I am home, I enjoy visual aids to learn something.

[Franco_92]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If this was directed at me... I am sorry.  What I said came off wrong.  I have listened to his podcasts before.  I just don't think telling me something without showing me is going to do me much good.  It boils down to Allen had a bad game.  We all know that. If I am driving in the car, I enjoy a good podcast.  When I am home, I enjoy visual aids to learn something.

Not just you, just seemed like a few posters were confused about why he wouldn't have video up about what he's talking about. He did an offseason episode describing his work day/work week and there really wasn't room to put together good videos, since video editing takes a lot of time. I'm looking forward to Cover 1's film room where they will surely break down some of Allen's craziness.

[Bubba Gump]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is exactly what it looked like to me.

 

Unprofessional and immature.

 

Peoples’ livelihoods are at stake.  How is Josh gonna feel when his buddy the OC is canned because of him?  
 

Dude needs to GROW THE F UP already.

 

Exactly what Dan Orlovsky said on OBL today. Said someone needs to hold Josh accountable and sit him down, get in his face and tell him to grow up!! His pal Ken will not do that. Maybe McDermott shouldn't have let Josh pick the OC. If Orlovsky had any interest in being an OC (which I doubt, he's got it made at ESPN, for now), the Bills should give him a blank check. 

[WideNine]

18 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

We joke about arm arrogance, but that's sort of what it comes down to.

 

Exactly.

 

And that has been the book on Allen for a while. Play quarters defense with 2-high safeties and he will get impatient and force the ball into double coverage and turn it over.

 

The way to beat that look normally is to run the ball with enough success that they bring one safety down into the box, but the Jets have a solid run defense with just their front 4 and LBs.

 

It relies on some man underneath, but again they have pretty solid corners on the boundaries. So patience with the runs and taking the underneath plays that isolate LBs and nickel backs on TEs and RBs releasing into the flat.

 

It was going to be a slug fest and game of attrition and Allen needs to learn how to be ok with a game like that.

 

Some games he will just need to be a game manager and play field position and not turn the ball over.

 

Not every D is going to be as stout as the Jets, but most teams will still try to play us the same way.

 

There were also some bad breaks, on one Allen scramble he happened to run right into a looping DL player on a stunt, but we had our bounces too... literally off the post.

 

Allen needs to get back to the growth mindset that helped him when he came into the league. Evaluate honestly what he needs to change then take steps to go out and change it.

 

I think what hurts most as a fan is how much I WANT him to succeed as a QB for his own sake and not just for the wins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

 

 

Yup.

 

This is it.

 

"When you study the tape you also become completely aware of the turn-downs ... the decisions he didn't make, the things he said no to when working progressions and surveying the field.

 

"He stopped taking profits. He did a little early. And sometimes throughout the game. But he stopped taking profits, which is not OK against a good disciplined defense like the Jets."

 

"We all wanted 'easy button' throws and quick passes for Josh Allen. They were there for him all night long and he took them sometimes. But the times he said no were pretty inexplicable. The tape doesn't lie.

 

"I know there are some out there that want to point fingers at Ken Dorsey. People want to point fingers at the offensive line, point fingers at weapons. It was 17 that was the problem, folks.

 

"Now, were there some moments when the offensive line and weapons and Ken Dorsey could have been better? Sure.

 

"But all those things are way down the pecking order when it comes to things that went wrong offensively on Monday night."

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Dan Darragh]

Sorry, wasn't going to watch 36 minutes of this guy yapping.  Let me know when there's a real all-22 analysis including actual video

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

I'm not buying the it's pretty much all on Josh narrative.

 

For instance, I do agree, to address one of the concerns, that he may give up on standing in the pocket a little longer a bit too often, but I don't remember Brady having his RT pushed into his lap in such an embarrassing fashion in half a second either. Once you lose confidence in some of your guys, it's hard to revert the process. It becomes second nature.

 

Josh has his own faults, but changes around him have to happen, in the form of personnel, play calling, or drastic performance improvement, possibly all of the above, to get him back in a confort zone.

[JerseyBills]

6 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is exactly what it looked like to me.

 

Unprofessional and immature.

 

Peoples’ livelihoods are at stake.  How is Josh gonna feel when his buddy the OC is canned because of him?  
 

Dude needs to GROW THE F UP already.

He just has to calm the F down. He never has taken what the D gives, which is unacceptable and against a top D will lead to the garbage we saw.  Props to the Jets for whatever halftime adjustments they made that made Allen so uncomfortable 

 

I'm over it but eager to see what he does next week.  I'd be really concerned if he has a bad day. That'd be 3 in a row, counting the Cincy game. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by JerseyBills

[Buffalo Ballin]

Accuracy wasn't Josh Allen's problem for Game 1 vs. Jets? His 3 interceptions said otherwise.

[JerseyBills]

Another unbelievably inept play. This is worse than i thought. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

New OC doing a bang up job.   

It isn't the OCs fault if the QB is too stupid to take the easy throws that are open 

[JerseyBills]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It isn't the OCs fault if the QB is too stupid to take the easy throws that are open 

Yup. I've seen like 8 throws where a rookie could see , guys are Wide open and he throws into coverage.  🤮

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Someone said Josh Allen doesn’t put in the film study this offseason. It’s showing.

[BillMafia716ix]

6 hours ago, arcane said:

Joe Marino does a podcast which he also happens to post to youtube for people who only listen to it that way. That's why there aren't videos/graphics. It's a daily podcast, and sits alongside about 300 other football related things he does each week for work, including scouting hundreds of college players. That's why he doesn't have time to splice videos and make it all nice for you. But no doubt about it, the guy knows ball, you only need to listen to a few episodes to pick that up. 

Cover 1, Joe Marino, and One Bills live is where I get all my Bills content. They are top tier shows.

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Cover 1, Joe Marino, and One Bills live is where I get all my Bills content. They are top tier shows.

yardperpass on Twitter posts some great all 22 analysis also

 

Man I thought it was Jets defense but Allen had guys underneath all day. I'm really discouraged by this film. He looked like a rookie

Edited September 13, 2023 by JerseyBills

[JohnnyBuffalo]

Honestly 6 years in do we really expect this to change?   Maybe accuracy wasn’t all of his issues in college.   I mean his accuracy on those picks was awful but the decision to throw the ball there at all was much worse.    
 

I love this kid and his effort like I loved watching Fred Ex and Fitzy play with all their heart and put everything they had into it but dude come on.    Mental errors are inexcusable.   

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

I'm not buying the it's pretty much all on Josh narrative.

 

For instance, I do agree, to address one of the concerns, that he may give up on standing in the pocket a little longer a bit too often, but I don't remember Brady having his RT pushed into his lap in such an embarrassing fashion in half a second either. Once you lose confidence in some of your guys, it's hard to revert the process. It becomes second nature.

 

Josh has his own faults, but changes around him have to happen, in the form of personnel, play calling, or drastic performance improvement, possibly all of the above, to get him back in a confort zone.

Then why has Burrow been able to get through it?  His offensive line in his first two years was terrible.  Sacked 9 times in a playoff game.  He was sacked constantly in their 0-2 start last year.

 

Losing confidence in the OL means you throw downfield into double coverage?  It means you don’t throw the underneath route and force things?

[Airseven]

22 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Then why has Burrow been able to get through it?  His offensive line in his first two years was terrible.  Sacked 9 times in a playoff game.  He was sacked constantly in their 0-2 start last year.

 

Losing confidence in the OL means you throw downfield into double coverage?  It means you don’t throw the underneath route and force things?

Burrow is on another level with how he processes the game mentally. He also has better weapons and the Bengals invested heavily in their OL in 2022. Bills WRs and OL have been mostly a revolving door of riff raff the past couple years.

 

Interestingly, the Chiefs also committed an off-season to revamping their OL in 2021.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Airseven

[Chandler#81]

Joe Marino is a true treasure for Bills fans. Tells it like it is and knows what he’s looking at.

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Then why has Burrow been able to get through it?  His offensive line in his first two years was terrible.  Sacked 9 times in a playoff game.  He was sacked constantly in their 0-2 start last year.

 

Losing confidence in the OL means you throw downfield into double coverage?  It means you don’t throw the underneath route and force things?

 

People see different issues with Josh's play. One of them is leaving the pocket too early way too often. As clearly stated, my post was addressing that concern.

 

In that regard, Josh and Burrow are hardly comparable due to their different skill sets / athletic abilities.

[peterpan]

I hear a lot of “Josh needs to grow up”. 
 

what does that even mean??

 

He is playing poorly.  He is playing like he did in college.  Maybe this is just whom he is.  He had a good year/year and a half and that honeymoon is over.

 

McDermot and Dorsey need to be ready to bench him.  Just for one drive at first.  Then maybe a whole half, idk.  But he has earned a benching. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by peterpan

[BillsFan692]

9 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

Yah but did he think that hit where allen got whipped face first into the ground early in the game had an effect? Look like allens bell was rung pretty good there...

 

Seeing some speculation online that the NFL spotters should have at least checked him in the blue tent.

 

I mean i believe it honestly it was the worst game ive ever seen josh allen play but it seemed to get progressively worse. Even when he fumbled the ball (twice) on one play he got smacked pretty good in the head again

Edited September 13, 2023 by BillsFan692

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

 

People see different issues with Josh's play. One of them is leaving the pocket too early way too often. As clearly stated, my post was addressing that concern.

 

In that regard, Josh and Burrow are hardly comparable due to their different skill sets / athletic abilities.

I’m not talking about their skill set and abilities.  Why does that matter?  We are talking about overcoming adversity.  Allen has a different skill set than Burrow meaning he’s more susceptible to losing confidence or something?

 

You stated Allen stays in the pocket too long, this post you’re now saying he leaves too early?  Which one is it?

 

The issues are clear with Josh.  He said it himself and has said it for years starting 6 years ago.  

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I’m not talking about their skill set and abilities.  Why does that matter?  We are talking about overcoming adversity.  Allen has a different skill set than Burrow meaning he’s more susceptible to losing confidence or something?

 

You stated Allen stays in the pocket too long, this post you’re now saying he leaves too early?  Which one is it?

 

The issues are clear with Josh.  He said it himself and has said it for years starting 6 years ago.  

 

Man, I have never stated that Josh stays in the pocket too long. Have some coffee and re-read my posts.

[SectionC3]

9 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is exactly what it looked like to me.

 

Unprofessional and immature.

 

Peoples’ livelihoods are at stake.  How is Josh gonna feel when his buddy the OC is canned because of him?  
 

Dude needs to GROW THE F UP already.

I couldn't agree more.  Great, fun guy.  Needs to grow up, on and off the field.  The dude is reckless.  I honestly wonder if his brain is working the right way after getting knocked around last year.   

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

 

Man, I have never stated that Josh stays in the pocket too long. Have some coffee and re-read my posts.

 

Okay, I misread that particular part.  That wasn't the only thing we were talking about....care to address those?

 

[SectionC3]

36 minutes ago, peterpan said:

I hear a lot of “Josh needs to grow up”. 
 

what does that even mean??

 

He is playing poorly.  He is playing like he did in college.  Maybe this is just whom he is.  He had a good year/year and a half and that honeymoon is over.

 

McDermot and Dorsey need to be ready to bench him.  Just for one drive at first.  Then maybe a whole half, idk.  But he has earned a benching. 

There is fire to the smoke about certain other nonsense.  Let's put it this way: if it was my son who was doing or who had done certain things that constitute the "fire," there would be significant familial intervention.  Maybe a 27-year-old who might be worth $100m is beyond that.  In fact, it's probably the case.  But if it was my child, I'd be there to get his head right because life is short, time is precious, and these years--both professionally and personally--will fly quickly by. 

[wvbillsfan]

The only part that I see was on Dorsey was his unwillingness to run the ball more when we just needed to play mistake free football. 
 

But ultimately guys were open. Throws were there to be had. Allen just didn’t execute. 
 

At this point I’m more worried about the “eyes all over the place” statement than anything. 
 

What is fooling him Allen that he can’t get through progressions or it is a lack of trust in his OLine. 

[BillsFan692]

6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

There is fire to the smoke about certain other nonsense.  Let's put it this way: if it was my son who was doing or who had done certain things that constitute the "fire," there would be significant familial intervention.  Maybe a 27-year-old who might be worth $100m is beyond that.  In fact, it's probably the case.  But if it was my child, I'd be there to get his head right because life is short, time is precious, and these years--both professionally and personally--will fly quickly by. 

Like what are we even saying anymore this talk is ridiculous. Josh allen isn't your son, he isn't even a kid anymore, he is worth as you said 100s of millions of dollars and you can't change who someone is as a person even if its your own 27 year old son (good luck).

I think most likely allen got his bell rung early in the 1st Q and things spiraled. He actually took multiple hits to the head area this game so you know he was probably under-duress. 

Believe it or not, Allen is not superman. The first head hit he took which looked real bad as he got slung violently to the turf (face first) likely had some affects on him throughout the remainder of the game.  The second smack he took to the helmet was when he double-fumbled the ball. 

I find it much more likely allen's bell was rung than allen just suddenly played the worst game he's ever played and everyone is scratching their heads going 'what was he thinking?!' maybe the reality is that he wasn't thinkin too good -- you know?  Anyways, it is Wednesday folks, it's time to move on to LV Raiders we'll know more about Allen's overall contribution to this teams success as the season unfolds. I don't suspect every game we play is going to look like the jets but we know allen struggles mightily against their D.

Edited September 13, 2023 by BillsFan692

[Punching Bag]

9 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Why can’t we have nice things?

 

Because fans are Emotionally Unstable and focus on what went wrong, real and imagined, rather than focusing on what went well.  They rant irrationally all offseason and whether players admit this or not it affects them.

[SectionC3]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Like what are we even saying anymore this talk is ridiculous. Josh allen isn't your son, he isn't even a kid anymore, he is worth as you said 100s of millions of dollars and you can't change who someone is as a person even if its your own 27 year old son (good luck).

I think most likely allen got his bell rung early in the 1st Q and things spiraled. He actually took multiple hits to the head area this game so you know he was probably under-duress. 

Believe it or not, Allen is not superman. The first head hit he took which looked real bad as he got slung violently to the turf (face first) likely had some affects on him throughout the remainder of the game.  The second smack he took to the helmet was when he double-fumbled the ball. 

I find it much more likely allen's bell was rung than allen just suddenly played the worst game he's ever played and everyone is scratching their heads going 'what was he thinking?!' maybe the reality is that he wasn't thinkin too good -- you know?  Anyways, it is Wednesday folks, it's time to move on to LV Raiders we'll know more about Allen's overall contribution to this teams success as the season unfolds. I don't suspect every game we play is going to look like the jets but we know allen struggles mightily against their D.

There's a reason Diggs was disgusted with him.  And Diggs was right.  It's time to grow up.  It's not just playing like a knucklehead.