Who will be the Bills starting offensive linemen in 2023 (LT-LG-C-RG-RT)?

[jwhit34]

What does everyone think about the starting OLine? 

[BuffaloBillyG]

LT: Dawkins

LG: McGovern 

😄 Morse

RG: Bates

RT: Brown

 

IMO this is what opens the season. At some point one of the IOL guys will miss some time to injury...pretty likely. Torrence steps in and doesn't come off the field. Come the end of the year barring long term injury: Same as above with Torrence replacing Bates. Bates moves to primary backup for the 3 IOL positions. 

 

[GunnerBill]

Dawkins

Torrence

Morse

McGovern

Brown

[billsfan89]

I would say there is likely very little controversy for LT-LG-C. Dawkins and Mitch are the vets and the best players along the O-line and McGov was a fairly big off-season signing and a proven in his prime player at guard. RT and RG right now are where the intrigue is. Brown barring a vet signing should be in line for RT. While I would prefer Brown has competition the organization seems to mostly believe in him although I would suspect Queese and Bates will get some snaps with the first unit to kick the tires so to speak. 

 

RG is also a bit of a battle between Bates and Torrence but while I do think McBean has shown a reluctance to play rookies I simply have a high degree of faith with Torrence that he will show out in camp. I love the O-line a lot more coming into this season. Edwards, Bates and Queese are a much better first three off the bench and the guard position is much better stocked. If this team can add a vet swing tackle who can compete with Brown at RT I think they go 9 deep in a good manner. 

[NewEra]

I hope that it’s option 2 by seasons end.  I think Torrance will start but Bates wasn’t terrible to end the season.  Some rookies acclimate to the rigors of NFL life quicker than others. I could see a situation where bates starts the season and Torrance takes over after a few weeks.  But it would be so nice if he just came in week 1 and showed everyone why he was touted as a first rd pick by many, took the job and ran with it.
 

 I like that torrance just came off of a year where he transferred and played at a very high level vs a huge uptick in talent.  
 

if Torrance and Brown turn out to be a formidable right side of the line, watch out.  

Edited May 22, 2023 by NewEra

[TBBills Fan]

hey o line gurus, whats the big difference between a RG and LG?  Serious question..why are the 2 spots not interchageable?

 

[frostbitmic]

Dawkins

McGovern

Morse

Torrence

Brown

 

That'll be the starting line until, and you know it'll happen, Morse gets his next concussion. I think that'll also be on their minds starting Torrence over Bates at RG because they'll save Bates for when Morse goes down.

[machine gun kelly]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Dawkins

Torrence

Morse

McGovern

Brown

I wouldn’t disagree with this option as I’m guessing my Brit friend recognizes the LG has help pulling to the left with the LT and C, whereas in many blocking schemes the RG is on somewhat of an island with the RT Tackle often pushing out to the right.

[Buffalo716]

18 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

hey o line gurus, whats the big difference between a RG and LG?  Serious question..why are the 2 spots not interchageable?

 

Most good guards can play both … but old school football had the power on the right and finesse on the left 

 

and lots of people still go back to that… so better pass blockers and athletes on left side and run blockers on right was MO

 

The mirroring of their feet and hands is basically the big difference … LG and RG have opposite stances which can take time to get used to … and maybe some can’t adapt … that’s a muscle memory thing … and most lines slide left … so RG are 1 on 1 more in pass protection 

 

But LG was usually the better athlete and can move and RG was a phone booth … and takes more 1 on 1 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Buffalo716

[TBBills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Most good guards can play both … but old school football had the power on the right and finesse on the left 

 

and lots of people still go back to that… so better pass blockers and athletes on left side and run blockers on right was MO

 

The mirroring of their feet and hands is basically the big difference … LG and RG have opposite stances which can take time to get used to … and maybe some can’t adapt … that’s a muscle memory thing … and most lines slide left … so RG are 1 on 1 more in pass protection 

 

But LG was usually the better athlete and can move and RG was a phone booth … and takes more 1 on 1 

 

 

thank you!

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, jwhit34 said:

What does everyone think about the starting OLine? 

Opening day or for majority of season?

[Pirate Angel]

Bates kinda eliminates himself as an entrenched starter as he is more valuable to the 53 man roster as a backup to all 3 interior positions and an emergency tackle. As the season wears on he will get plenty of reps and  most likely start eventually, Im not confident Mitch Morse can play a complete season anymore as he has become a concussion collector. 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Dawkins

Torrence

Morse

McGovern

Brown

I can see this happening, I went with Torrence and McGovern switching guard spots, but would be good either way. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

What does everyone think about the starting OLine? 

Brown terrifies me. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Opening day or for majority of season?

 

Can’t choose without knowing the answer to this. 

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

I can see this happening, I went with Torrence and McGovern switching guard spots, but would be good either way. 

Hmm every comment the team has made says McG LG and Torrence is a mauler RG. 

[Rc2catch]

Torrence at RG and brown at RT should make for some very physical run blocking and probably some entertaining highlights. Browns had his warts but I do enjoy his nasty streak when he’s winning match ups 

[GETTOTHE50]

I think the guard we signed over from the rams starts out at right guard with Torrence learning and backing him up (it’s the McDermott way). 

bates backs up Morse.

 

so I say..

 

Dawkins-McGovern-Morse-Edwards-Brown 

 

[Dr. Who]

46 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Brown terrifies me. 

I heard he's a nice guy.

[DrDawkinstein]

4 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

I think the guard we signed over from the rams starts out at right guard with Torrence learning and backing him up (it’s the McDermott way). 

bates backs up Morse.

 

so I say..

 

Dawkins-McGovern-Morse-Edwards-Brown 

 

 

I've been patient with McD's rookie treatment in previous years, because the different iterations of the team allowed it. Enough is enough tho for where we are in the team building phase of McBeane's plan. We have high-paid, homegrown stars. It's to the point we need at least the first 2 round rookies to step in and play a role right away. If Torrence isn't in the starting unit Week 1, it was a major botch by Beane. There were OGs available in this draft that should absolutely be Day 1 starters.

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Most good guards can play both … but old school football had the power on the right and finesse on the left 

 

and lots of people still go back to that… so better pass blockers and athletes on left side and run blockers on right was MO

 

The mirroring of their feet and hands is basically the big difference … LG and RG have opposite stances which can take time to get used to … and maybe some can’t adapt … that’s a muscle memory thing … and most lines slide left … so RG are 1 on 1 more in pass protection 

 

But LG was usually the better athlete and can move and RG was a phone booth … and takes more 1 on 1 

That’s really all that it is….sounds simple but thousands and thousands of reps over their playing career doing it one way is one of the reasons these guys are so good at what they do.  
 

Mirroring it to the other side is a different memory for the muscles. Some players adapt well.  Some can’t adapt. I think it really just depends on how hard they want to work at it. 

[JerseyBills]

McGovern will start. Hopefully Torrence too and  isn't another Cody Ford , I doubt it but who knows at this point 

 

Regardless we have some good depth and versatility 

[1ManRaid]

The most surprising result is that there are 4 people predicting Bates would start at RT, rather than his arguably more valuable position of 3-position backup.  Misclicks?

 

Also Beane didn't draft Torrence (a single-position lineman and #1 guard in the draft) to NOT start.

Edited May 23, 2023 by 1ManRaid

[Don Otreply]

13 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Hmm every comment the team has made says McG LG and Torrence is a mauler RG. 

Switch from what Gunner Bill said, 

[PBF81]

If Torrence doesn't start ... 

 

 

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

That’s really all that it is….sounds simple but thousands and thousands of reps over their playing career doing it one way is one of the reasons these guys are so good at what they do.  
 

Mirroring it to the other side is a different memory for the muscles. Some players adapt well.  Some can’t adapt. I think it really just depends on how hard they want to work at it. 

 

Chemistry as a single unit with the same guys in the same spot however is an undervalued thing among fans.  

 

It's ridiculously critical and what made our '90s OL as good as it was.  Or the HOGS for instance as just one of many examples.  

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by PBF81

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

If Torrence doesn't start ... 

 

 

 

Chemistry as a single unit with the same guys in the same spot however is an undervalued thing among fans.  

 

It's ridiculously critical and what made our '90s OL as good as it was.  Or the HOGS for instance as just one of many examples.  

 

 

For sure. That OL was great.  And then free agency happened in 1993.  
 

Some teams can pull it off, but, by and large, it’s extremely hard to keep these OLs together for more than 2-3 years.  Add the shallow pool of OL to choose from nowadays and it’s even harder. 
 

gotta hope that you draft well and hit some diamonds in the rough and have control for 4-5 years 

 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

For sure. That OL was great.  And then free agency happened in 1993.  
 

Some teams can pull it off, but, by and large, it’s extremely hard to keep these OLs together for more than 2-3 years.  Add the shallow pool of OL to choose from nowadays and it’s even harder. 
 

gotta hope that you draft well and hit some diamonds in the rough and have control for 4-5 years 

 

My short answer to that is that other teams do it routinely, at least a bunch and our biggest competitors.  Beane would enter the conversation here.  

 

Secondly, it's tough to hit for OL-men in the Draft when you rarely select them.  Again, Beane enters the conversation in this regard, which is unpopular here.  

 

 

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

My short answer to that is that other teams do it routinely, at least a bunch and our biggest competitors.  Beane would enter the conversation here.  

 

Secondly, it's tough to hit for OL-men in the Draft when you rarely select them.  Again, Beane enters the conversation in this regard, which is unpopular here.  

 

 

Oh sorry, I didn’t realize this turned into another bash Beane conversation. Have fun

[hondo in seattle]

McD trusting a rookie to protect his multimillion-dollar QB, I think, might be a bit of a stretch.

 

I think Bates starts at RG at the beginning of the season.  But Torrence will get some reps and eventually take over as the starter.  Bates will then be the interior backup and not a tackle.   

 

That puts me in the minority because I chose Dawkins-McGovern-Morse-Bates-Brown as our opening-day OL.  

 

I worry about Mitch and his concussions.  

 

I thought Edwards might get some love, considering that he started for the Rams for three years, including their SB victory.  Then again, he wasn't a particularly good starter.  From 2019-2021 (I'm disregarding 2022 because of his own concussion problems), he averaged something like 66 on PFF's scoring system which rates him as a good backup.  

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[Alphadawg7]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Dawkins

Torrence

Morse

McGovern

Brown

 

Agreed, and I am surprised there are 12 votes for lineups in the poll that doesn't include Torrence.  Our guard play was so bad last year I feel like any guard off the street at any moment could have stepped in and not been any worse.  

 

Sure, it's possible Torrence struggles in camp and preseason and they go with veteran presence and bring Torrence along slower.  But IMHO, Torrence is just too good of a prospect to where I find a hard time seeing him start the season on the bench while one of the lesser inspiring veterans start.  

 

IMHO, if Brown can build on the potential he showed as a rookie and put last year behind him, our OL has a shot at being significantly better this year.  Brown is the key, because by adding both McGovern and Torrence, along with Bates, our guard spot now has depth and I am sure we can find a 2 man combo amongst those 3 that will be better than any combo at guard we trotted out last year.  But RT is still biggest question mark where I don't know if we have a quality option there until we see what version of Brown we get as there isn't much behind him to make you feel comfortable if Brown struggles.  

[NewEra]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Dawkins

Torrence

Morse

McGovern

Brown

Do you think they’ll move Torrance to LG and McGovern to right?

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Do you think they’ll move Torrance to LG and McGovern to right?

 

Personally, I think that's the best combination. It wouldn't stun me if they went the other way. 

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Do you think they’ll move Torrance to LG and McGovern to right?

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Personally, I think that's the best combination. It wouldn't stun me if they went the other way. 

 

Thought I read somewhere that Torrence doesnt fair well at LG. Like, they tried him there a couple snaps at the Senior Bowl and then moved him right back to RG where he belonged.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Personally, I think that's the best combination. It wouldn't stun me if they went the other way. 

Interesting.  I figured they’d keep them where they’re comfortable, have developed muscle memory and have had success.  
 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

My short answer to that is that other teams do it routinely, at least a bunch and our biggest competitors.  Beane would enter the conversation here.  

 

Secondly, it's tough to hit for OL-men in the Draft when you rarely select them.  Again, Beane enters the conversation in this regard, which is unpopular here.  

 

 

 

I mean this is such an inaccurate statement, and so obviously biased against the Bills with no perspective on what other teams are actually doing and going through, that it completely invalidates any other point you may be making.

 

KC loses and flips guys constantly. They just lost their OT and replaced him with a lower graded player.

Cincy is STILL trying to build an OL, and just stole said KC OT. Which is about to lose them their other OT.

Philly just lost OT Andre Dillard AND OG Isaac Seumalo

 

The list goes on.

 

There is a huge dearth of OL talent available. Beane could do better to focus on it, but almost every team is feeling that pain.

[Big Blitz]

Dawkins - McGovern - Morse - Torrence - Brown

 

 

 

 

Then by the 3rd quarter of week 1, after a half of watching Quinnen Williams demolish McGovern, it will be Bates at LG.  

[Logic]

I think the only question mark is at RG.

I believe Bates starts the season there, with Torrence perhaps occasionally rotating in at times if he shows well in camp and practice. Call it the Milano/Humber treatment.

I hope and expect that by mid-season or so, Torrence takes over for good. 
 

[LABILLBACKER]

18 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I heard he's a nice guy.

....Until he gets Josh injured

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

....Until he gets Josh injured

I've written plenty enough in various threads about my concern at RT and that it is the one position where Beane appears to stubbornly resist bringing in adequate competition. My response was supposed to be an evident joke.

[blacklabel]

Dawkins - Bates - Morse - Torrence - Brown, I guess, I dunno. I'm not an offensive lineologist.