RD 2, Pick 59: G O’Cyrus Torrence, Florida

[freddyjj]

6 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Can we put Dawand Jones next to him please

Are you referring to Dontwanna Jones.  Dude took week off at SR Bowl and was voted OL most likely to bust by team scouts.  Mike Williams part deux. 
 

https://atozsports.com/.amp/cincinnati/bengals-draft-rumor-mill-isnt-too-kind-to-dawand-jones/

 

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

This guy, a big slot in Kincaid, and Damien Harris… adds a different dimension to the offense that it was lacking.  More physicality was definitely needed on the offense.  

In regards to the defense, it looks like they’re banking on Tre returning to form, the return of Hyde, Elam making a leap, Rapp adding some physicality to the back 7, and replacing Edmunds by committee.  I could see Oliver stepping it up in a contract year, and continued improvement from Rousseau.  Jones, Phillips and Shaq provide steady play and hopefully Epenesa and Basham show some marginal improvement and Von rounds into form by end of season. 

 

 

Kincaid/Torrence feels very much like a reaction to that loss to Cincinnati.   Anyone who was there not only saw them lose the LOS against a team that isn't great at the LOS.......but also the reality that the receiving corps was ill-equipped for the conditions.   The Bills not only play in a windy stadium but they play on a crowned field that makes it more difficult to be deadly accurate outside the hashes.   You want to be able to throw inside them when the weather gets bad and/or you want some options outside who have a large catch radius as Cinci had with Tee Higgins.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Are you referring to Dontwanna Jones.  Dude took week off at SR Bowl and was voted OL most likely to bust by team scouts.  Mike Williams part deux. 
 

https://atozsports.com/.amp/cincinnati/bengals-draft-rumor-mill-isnt-too-kind-to-dawand-jones/

 

 

Do you think worth the risk 5th round or later?

[freddyjj]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Do you think worth the risk 5th round or later?

Personally I would pass.  

[Warriorspikes51]

30 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

He is allegedly off a lot of teams' boards because of character issues and he is a sloppy big guy. I would take a chance on him with the sixth round pick.

Yea, I’d take a chance. If he can be reached by the coaches, his potential is an All Pro RT

[Thrivefourfive]

This draft in general is shaping up to be very smart by the brass.
 

1. Best player available + need
2. Best player available + need

3. Need + talent/potential

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Do you think worth the risk 5th round or later?

Come day 3 I’m totally ok swinging for the fences on talent.  If they don’t make it, so be it. 

[skibum]

Still can't believe they got this guy at 59! I would have been happy with him at 27, to be honest. This definitely takes the sting out of trading away that 4th. 

[The Frankish Reich]

Osiris is the Egyptian Lord of the Underworld and Judge of the Dead, brother-husband to Isis, and one of the most important gods of ancient Egypt. The name `Osiris' is the Latinized form of the Egyptian Usir which is interpreted as 'powerful' or 'mighty'. He is the first-born of the gods Geb (earth) and Nut (sky) shortly after the creation of the world, was murdered by his younger brother Set, and brought back to life by his sister-wife Isis.

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

.   You want to be able to throw inside them when the weather gets bad and/or you want some options outside who have a large catch radius as Cinci had with Tee Higgins.

Who do you see filling that role for the Bills ? My confidence in Davis is low. 

[The Frankish Reich]

15 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Osiris Egyptian God of the dead?

Better that he be named in honor of the God of The Dead than in honor of Cyrus Koundjio.

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

He is allegedly off a lot of teams' boards because of character issues and he is a sloppy big guy. I would take a chance on him with the sixth round pick.

I said the same thing and got eye rolls and such lol as if it were just my opinion. You just can't say anything "negative" about anyone fans like. 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I said the same thing and got eye rolls and such lol as if it were just my opinion. You just can't say anything "negative" about anyone fans like. 

True, human nature is annoying. And folks are defensive about players they like. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, freddyjj said:

Are you referring to Dontwanna Jones.  Dude took week off at SR Bowl and was voted OL most likely to bust by team scouts.  Mike Williams part deux. 
 

https://atozsports.com/.amp/cincinnati/bengals-draft-rumor-mill-isnt-too-kind-to-dawand-jones/

 

I don'twanna even go there.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Who do you see filling that role for the Bills ? My confidence in Davis is low. 

 

Yeah they don't have it.   Unless Davis elevates his game.   Hopefully they'll be able to work the middle that much better though.

[starrymessenger]

When he gets his hands on you rep is over. Not the best fit scheme wise but a huge upgrade to the OG position nevertheless.

[3rdand12]

31 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

When he gets his hands on you rep is over. Not the best fit scheme wise but a huge upgrade to the OG position nevertheless.

The scheme , much like defense needs some tweaks.

 Lets us pray Kromer is already helping Dorsey in this matter.

 BTW

 LOVE THIS PICK

 Game changer as far as upgrading the Offense. Hope this also affects whom he plays next to.

Can we assume Morse and Dawkins?

That would be a hell of a strong side to run on 

[starrymessenger]

8 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

The scheme , much like defense needs some tweaks.

 Lets us pray Kromer is already helping Dorsey in this matter.

 BTW

 LOVE THIS PICK

 Game changer as far as upgrading the Offense. Hope this also affects whom he plays next to.

Can we assume Morse and Dawkins?

That would be a hell of a strong side to run on 

Yeah re scheme I feel that his alleged lack of mobility has been exaggerated a bit. There are examples of him showing sufficient quickness pulling and even to the second level and very good field awareness with the Gators. He will never be Jerry Kramer and it's also fair to wonder how he will fare in pass pro against some of the great speed rushing DEs and 3 techs he will now be facing but I too will be interested to see what Kromer is able to do with him. All rooks face à learning curve. As a prospect the guy was a steal where we got him.

[Buffalo716]

10 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Lol what.. Epenesa was like 6’6” 280 coming out of college.  There def was talk of him being more of a 34 end like they said. The Bills made him lose weight and completely change his body. 

 

Looking at a bunch of 34 DEs over the years and there’s a whole lot that are 6’5” 285 (the first 4 that came up in search were all smaller than your 6’5” 300 lb prototype) so idk where you’re getting that’s too small because that is incorrect. 

Expensea was 6’5 275 at the combine and the bills didn’t like his body… If he was Myles Garrett cut they wouldn’t of changed his body type

 

I’m saying he’s not the prototype And would not be a great five technique…can he play it sure… do I think he’d be good? No… The bills didn’t like his body composition at 275 so they trimmed him down… I doubt he would have been more productive at 290

 

Of course there are 3-4 ends who are under 300 pounds ….

 

100% the prototype 34 end is Muhammad Wilkerson who is 6’5 315… JJ watt 6’5 295… Calais cambell 6’8 300… deforest Buckner 6’8 295…Henry Anderson 6’6 300… Richard Seymour 6’6 315… Those are true five techs … And I didn’t mean to call JJ Watt a small 34 end… He’s the low end of a prototype at 295

 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-the-nfls-prototypical-defensive-linemen-for-each-dl-technique

 

I could care less about PFF but they know what the prototype is… and so do coaches

 

I would never look for a 6 foot five 270 pound five technique If I’m building a 34 defense. 
 

I’d look for Richard Seymour

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Warcodered]

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

AJ Epenesa is not big enough or long enough to be a 34 end… The prototype is 6 foot five 310 pounds

 

JJ Watt is a small 34 end at 6’5 295… Epenesa is not a 34 end 

 

Every single guard drafted unless your name is Quinton Nelson or Zack Martin is developmental… We got a guard who is pro bowl caliber with the right development

 

Most 34 ends are around 6'5 285 today

 

Torrence isnt a scheme fit, so all the pulling and moving we do, he cant

 

 

[The Wiz]

 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Most 34 ends are around 6'5 285 today

 

Torrence isnt a scheme fit, so all the pulling and moving we do, he cant

 

 

 

My biggest concern is his weight, and I’m sure this has been considered. He dropped 17 lbs to get “down to” 330 lbs?  What is his ideal playing weight, and can he maintain that?  Like the Jets Becton, there IS such a thing as too big. 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Most 34 ends are around 6'5 285 today

 

Torrence isnt a scheme fit, so all the pulling and moving we do, he cant

 

 

And five techniques get kicked inside On passing downs Play three tech

 

That is a undersize guy to get kicked inside… Like kicking in boogie Basham

 

Again I said prototype… And the five guys I listed are prototype five techniques… I didn’t mean to call JJ Watt a small 34 end either… I meant hes the low side of your prototype five technique… compared to Wilkerson build 

 

calais cambell , Henry Anderson , Muhammad Wilkerson , deforest Buckner , Richard Seymour , jj watt are prototype 5tech bodies

 

 

Defensive and Draft Connotations

3-4

In a "normal" 3-4 front, the defensive line is typically made up of a nose tackle and two defensive ends. Those defensive ends typically line up at a 5 technique. Usually when people talk about a 3-4 defense, or a "true" 3-4, they mean that each defensive lineman will be responsible for two gaps against running plays.

So when guys like Mike Mayock say "his best fit is as a 5 technique end" they mean that the player can play this position. Typically these guys are:

Near or over 300 lbs. 280 is small for a 5 tech. Romeo liked his DEs to be enormous (320+ lbs).

 

280 pound man can play five technique but it’s small

 

I like the prototype at every position… give me 6’6 310 Richard Seymour 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Warriorspikes51]

This pick is great. I wish we had a similar type of prospect at RT

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

This pick is great. I wish we had a similar type of prospect at RT

Tackle looks completely dried up in this draft

[Buffalo Barbarian]

46 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

My biggest concern is his weight, and I’m sure this has been considered. He dropped 17 lbs to get “down to” 330 lbs?  What is his ideal playing weight, and can he maintain that?  Like the Jets Becton, there IS such a thing as too big. 

 

I like his size but hes not known to be a mover in space so thats my concern. I wish we had a whole team of road graders but weren't built that way so not sure why Beane picked him. Sometimes i wonder if there is disconnect between the front office and the coaching staff.

 

 

8 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

One of the biggest issues last season was once the ball was snapped Allen would have immediate pressure coming right up the middle. This would cause him to have to either roll out quickly, get the ball out too fast or eat a quick sack. This ends that issue. 

 

Torrence is not going to get driven back much. And as a mountain of dude you aren't going to get around him fast. And once he locks on to someone they are toast. 

 

He's not going to be asked to pull and lead block side to side very often. But what he will do is wall off the defender at the point of attack and drive him out of the play. This will really work well in tandem with Harris and his ability to hit a hole fast get upfield.  

 

 

Agree but that's my issue is that he will limit what the offense can do. Teams will know he cant pull so they know certain plays will be eliminated.

 

I really hope he works out but he doesn't match with the rest of the line.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I like his size but hes not known to be a mover in space so thats my concern. I wish we had a whole team of road graders but weren't built that way so not sure why Beane picked him. Sometimes i wonder if there is disconnect between the front office and the coaching staff.

 

 

 

Agree but that's my issue is that he will limit what the offense can do. Teams will know he cant pull so they know certain plays will be eliminated.

 

I really hope he works out but he doesn't match with the rest of the line.

 

 

To the bolded: Beane actually mentioned briefly last night how now in year 2 with Dorsey and Kromer they are better able to refine exactly what they are looking for and how they want to set the offense. There was some getting used to what they wanted last year more than this. 

 

To your second point, while true that he isn't known as a pulling G, he doesn't have to be. Morse is excellent pulling and Torrence can set the point of attack. He will prevent the quick penetration that blows up a run play. We needed that especially with all the really good DTs in our division. 

[Buffalo716]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I like his size but hes not known to be a mover in space so thats my concern. I wish we had a whole team of road graders but weren't built that way so not sure why Beane picked him. Sometimes i wonder if there is disconnect between the front office and the coaching staff.

 

 

 

Agree but that's my issue is that he will limit what the offense can do. Teams will know he cant pull so they know certain plays will be eliminated.

 

I really hope he works out but he doesn't match with the rest of the line.

 

 

Having one guy who specializes in playing in a phone booth… Might help interior runs 

 

He’s clearly not gonna be a pulling machine…. But if he could block power … Damian Harris will be happy

[Buffalo Barbarian]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Having one guy who specializes in playing in a phone booth… Might help interior runs 

 

He’s clearly not gonna be a pulling machine…. But if he could block power … Damian Harris will be happy

 

i hope so, im just seeing square peg in a round hole.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

i hope so, im just seeing square peg in a round hole.

 

 

He’s definitely not in the mold of our other lineMan

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

He’s definitely not in the mold of our other lineMan

which is a very good thing. 

[FLFan]

The Bills are primarily a pass first team.  It seems to me that whatever slight run game scheme deficiency might present itself with this player, that his ability to create a wall in front of Allen from the RG position would be far more valuable.  Unless of course, anyone would like to see a repeat of last year’s constant jail break from the right side.  If this player pans out as expected, Spencer Brown will also be a major beneficiary.  

Edited April 29, 2023 by FLFan
Clarity

[Niagara Dude]

19 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Wrong, getting lots of average guys has gotten us nowhere, Offense needed improvement, Josh needed a premium weapon. This has gone perfectly.

I respectfully disagree, I hope I am wrong but this kid was overdrafted. When your that talented you don't need to wait until your turning 24 to jump to the pros, again I hope I am wrong but I said the same thing the night we drafted Ford and everyone was all hyped up. 

[Meatloaf63]

12 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I respectfully disagree, I hope I am wrong but this kid was overdrafted. When your that talented you don't need to wait until your turning 24 to jump to the pros, again I hope I am wrong but I said the same thing the night we drafted Ford and everyone was all hyped up. 

For every story like this there are a hundred different outcomes. Nothing wrong with finishing your degree. Every player the bills ever drafted somebody disliked them. It’s wonderful you didn’t like Ford, means absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things.

[Augie]

37 minutes ago, FLFan said:

The Bills are primarily a pass first team.  It seems to me that whatever slight run game scheme deficiency might present itself with this player, that his ability to create a wall in front of Allen from the RG position would be far more valuable.  Unless of course, anyone would like to see a repeat of last year’s constant jail break from the right side.  If this player pans out as expected, Spencer Brown will also be a major beneficiary.  

 

Good point. This is obviously very accurate, but I hadn’t thought of it as specifically related to S. Brown. It will help if we can create stability around him, so hopefully that’s one more part of his progression.

 

With houses we always took the approach of finding the weakest point, then making it one of the strongest. This works for pieces on the OLine, too, I think. 

[Warcodered]

 

[BigAl2526]

20 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Who's this Morris guy?  Must be good.

Hey man.  I'm 71 years old.  The mind is going.  Cut me a break will ya.  Mitch Morse is the guy I'm thinking of. 

[Punching Bag]

I think he could be a good player for the Thomas Doyle / Bobby Hart role as 6th lineman.

He would be good at sustaining point of attack.

[Warriorspikes51]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

I think he could be a good player for the Thomas Doyle / Bobby Hart role as 6th lineman.

He would be good at sustaining point of attack.

? he’s a starting Guard day 1. Likely a very good one