A Question That Has Haunted Me - What If 2017 Draft Was Different By That Trade Back ?

[ddaryl]

If the Bills drafted Mahomes in 2017 we would have similiar problems because of sub par drafting and a bend don't break D, coupled with inferior coaching compared to Reid

[DieHardBillsFan]

On 4/15/2023 at 8:10 PM, T master said:

Okay let me first say that i am ecstatic that we have Josh Allen as our QB he fits exactly what the Bills are in most every way a guy that had to work & is still working to be the best version of himself every year not only for the Bills but the community yet i have often wondered or had this question of what if ?

 

In 2017 the Bills got a really good player in the first round of the draft & i understand why they traded away there pick to the Chiefs to add draft capital to add other picks & even though Tre White has been a really good player taken in the 1st for the Bills just what would the Bills look like if they would have kept that pick instead of trading it & drafted Mahomes ? 🤔

 

Has any on else here ever wondered just what might have been if that would have taken place ? Also i wonder the thoughts of those in charge of that draft about Mahomes did they think he wasn't that good or was there something they heard in a interview that they didn't like ?

 

In 2017 that was the year before Beane came here correct ? Whaley was still the GM at the time or am i thinking wrong, i know we got Josh in 2018 which again i am very glad of he is a beast but this question has alway haunted me in some ways would the Bills now have 2 SB's under their belt if that would have happened ?

 

Or in part is the reason why Mahomes is so good is because of the leadership of the offensive guru that is Andy Reid ? I know this is a question that would only be answered if we had a crystal ball to see what the change would be like but was wondering if you all have thought this as i have .

 

I know we all have had thoughts in the past of why certain players were passed over & hind sight is definitely 20/20 to all the arm chair QB's in the Bills mafia but after seeing what Mahomes has been able to do in the relatively short time he has been in the NFL i ask the "What IF" question & wonder if any here have done the same ? 

Double down the Diggs trade and keep the Justin Jefferson pick.

[The Jokeman]

Well if we draft Mahomes in the 1st then we don't have the extra 3rd to move up to take Zay Jones. So hypothetically the Panthers take Zay and we get Curtis Samuel. It also means we don't get the Rams' 5th which we used to move up and get Dion Dawkins son instead draft G Dan Feeley or OT Antonio Garcia. Yet would still own pick 149 which might mean we take LB Jaylon Brown and then with pick 163 we take Nathan Peterman instead of Matt Milano. Leaving us with 171 to take LB Ukeme Eligwe and no Tanner Villejo at 195 and most likely take CB Marcus Sayles.

[90sBills]

10 hours ago, chongli said:

 

Nope. There were two major football leagues in the 60's: the NFL and the AFL. Both leagues have a right to call their champions world champions, just like before the NCAA football playoffs when the voters voted and there was a split championship (like in 2003, where they AP voted for USC and the coaches' poll had LSU). Oh, and a number of those AFL teams did beat the NFL early on for the SB, like KC in SB IV and the Jets in SB III.

So let me follow this logic. The NFL and AFL winners had the right to call themselves world champions even though the two didn’t played and the NFL was the more established league. And this means, in your mind, the Bills have two wannabe ‘Superbowls’?

 

Man I hope you don’t bring this line of thinking when discussing Bills football with others in person. As for me there’s no replacing the real thing no matter how much twisted logic gets applied. I want an actual Superbowl with a Lombardi Trophy 🏆 

[Jauronimo]

On 4/15/2023 at 8:09 PM, NoSaint said:

I’m just surprised no one else wondered about drafting mahomes before 

I dont think anyone has made the connection until now.

[90sBills]

8 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Championships fine.Best statistical start? Didn’t Allen just surpass Marino for most TDs in a players first 5 seasons? 

Yeah sure. That’s the same hollow record as the Herbert one with best stats first 2 yrs starting blah blah. Both are possible because of a technicality. Which, of course, was Mahomes sitting out his first year. If you took Mahomes’ 1st 5 Starting years it’s not even close. There’s a reason he has won 2 league MVPs and our guy hasn’t right?

 

But that should not be the focus for Bills fans. Mahomes is great for KC. Awesome. Allen is very good as well. Let’s see if he can take that next step and win a 🏆 

[SCBills]

Mahomes was drafted to a playoff caliber team, with an offensive mind at HC and was able to sit a year before taking the field.  

 

It's hard to argue with Mahomes greatness, given the results thus far.

 

However one can also contrast that with what Allen was given... which was one of the worst collections of offensive talent ever assembled in the modern era for his rookie year, and then yes... improvement, but even then, nothing earth shattering until we traded for Diggs.  

 

Since then, we have failed to give Allen anywhere close to the OL Mahomes has (typically) had and the weaponry, up until last year was far superior in KC... even last year, after trading Tyreek, it was likely a wash. 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by SCBills

[Success]

12 hours ago, 808 said:

Mahomes is a better qb imo. Its not equal talent. 
physical traits josh is bigger. 
mahomes has just as strong of an arm. 
 

josh still doesnt throw guys open as much as he likes to see them open then rips it. He gets the job done so its not that big of a deal. 
 

but PM doesnt make the same mistakes and doesnt gamble as much. Hes got rings. And has broken soo many records already. 
this doesnt mean josh is garbage. He is really good too its not that big of a deal. But mahomes is clearly better imo . And as a bills fan im fine with that. Idk why some take it soo personal. Both are really really good. Chill

 

Opinions will always vary on that stuff.  But personally, I wouldn't trade Allen for Mahomes.

 

I don't think KC fans would trade either. Both guys are suited for their teams, but I think the talent differential is negligible.

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 4/15/2023 at 8:10 PM, T master said:

Okay let me first say that i am ecstatic that we have Josh Allen as our QB he fits exactly what the Bills are in most every way a guy that had to work & is still working to be the best version of himself every year not only for the Bills but the community yet i have often wondered or had this question of what if ?

 

In 2017 the Bills got a really good player in the first round of the draft & i understand why they traded away there pick to the Chiefs to add draft capital to add other picks & even though Tre White has been a really good player taken in the 1st for the Bills just what would the Bills look like if they would have kept that pick instead of trading it & drafted Mahomes ? 🤔

 

Has any on else here ever wondered just what might have been if that would have taken place ? Also i wonder the thoughts of those in charge of that draft about Mahomes did they think he wasn't that good or was there something they heard in a interview that they didn't like ?

 

In 2017 that was the year before Beane came here correct ? Whaley was still the GM at the time or am i thinking wrong, i know we got Josh in 2018 which again i am very glad of he is a beast but this question has alway haunted me in some ways would the Bills now have 2 SB's under their belt if that would have happened ?

 

Or in part is the reason why Mahomes is so good is because of the leadership of the offensive guru that is Andy Reid ? I know this is a question that would only be answered if we had a crystal ball to see what the change would be like but was wondering if you all have thought this as i have .

 

I know we all have had thoughts in the past of why certain players were passed over & hind sight is definitely 20/20 to all the arm chair QB's in the Bills mafia but after seeing what Mahomes has been able to do in the relatively short time he has been in the NFL i ask the "What IF" question & wonder if any here have done the same ? 

 

One of things I'd read in an article was that McD stated he didn't want to draft a QB in 2017 as he hadn't had time to study them enough.

 

Until Jan 2017 4 months prior to the draft he didn't know he'd even be a head coach and all his focus to that point was on the defensive side with Carolina.  Yes that still gave him 4 months to study things, but likely those 4 months were spend putting together a staff, etc.  Likely many things a brand new HC needed to do.

 

Also if he had drafted Mahomes or someone else, he'd be going off the scouting reports of a group of people he likely knew little about and off the scouting reports of a team that hadn't done that great and had drafted M Darious and gave up alot to move up in the draft for Watkins.  Would you have wanted to put much faith in them?

Edited April 17, 2023 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, 97bills said:

Same way I see it… Mahomes and Allen are pretty much equal in talent, ITS THE COACHES!!!! Mahomes has one of the best play designers , and always seems to call the right play at the right time… guys wide open for walk in T.D in the Super Bowl. And Allen has Dorsey a rookie play caller. Who doesn’t know how to design plays. Look at our running backs for that evidence, I just hope Dorsey learned a lot last year or it might be two years wasted, and us finding a new OC. 

A coach can make all the plays he wants.  He needs a great QB to execute it.  Mahomes made those clutch plays in those 17 seconds to get them to FG range, just like how Allen ran over those KC defenders in the regular season game.    Mahomes makes a little more plays than Allen right now.  Hopefully, the script will be flipped this year.   

 

[chongli]

8 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

So let me follow this logic. The NFL and AFL winners had the right to call themselves world champions even though the two didn’t played and the NFL was the more established league. And this means, in your mind, the Bills have two wannabe ‘Superbowls’?

 

Man I hope you don’t bring this line of thinking when discussing Bills football with others in person. As for me there’s no replacing the real thing no matter how much twisted logic gets applied. I want an actual Superbowl with a Lombardi Trophy 🏆 

 

Buffalo won two AFL championships. What more could they do? Sure, I would have preferred if the two leagues played, but it's an imperfect world. And don't give me this "more established" stuff. Favorites don't always win. As I said, the Jets, from the AFL, beat the NFL in SB III, after Green Bay won the first two. The Bills, AFL champs in 1965 would have faced Green Bay in the Super Bowl, but it didn't begin until the next year. We'll never know. 

 

Do you give the Lakers full faith for winning their bubble championship, or put an asterisk next to Roger Maris's homerun mark? It amazes me some don't give Buffalo credit for being the best in one season. Either that or many don't know Buffalo's history.

[ganesh]

17 hours ago, 97bills said:

Same way I see it… Mahomes and Allen are pretty much equal in talent, ITS THE COACHES!!!! Mahomes has one of the best play designers , and always seems to call the right play at the right time… guys wide open for walk in T.D in the Super Bowl. And Allen has Dorsey a rookie play caller. Who doesn’t know how to design plays. Look at our running backs for that evidence, I just hope Dorsey learned a lot last year or it might be two years wasted, and us finding a new OC. 

A coach can make all the plays he wants.  He needs a great QB to execute it.  Mahomes made those clutch plays in those 17 seconds to get them to FG range, just like how Allen ran over those KC defenders in the regular season game.    Mahomes makes a little more plays than Allen right now.  Hopefully, the script will be flipped this year.   

 

A few years ago, the Bengals HC Taylor, was a laughing stock in the NFL...However, once he got Burrows he is not the real QB whisperer....give credit to Burrows.

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by ganesh

[colin]

the simplest way to look at an allen vs mahomes comparison is see what happened in the two games in the playoffs recently where mahomes went down.

 

vs the browns in 2021 (post 2020 season, we got kinda trucked by KC at KC in that playoffs) mahomes goes down and his back up, a career back up, just held the team together well enough to win, and the kc d stepped up too.

 

vz jax in the most recent play offs, same back up no body qb comes in and kc just marches down the field w small play after small play setting up a slam dunk red zone score from inside the 5 or 10.

 

if you put that back up qb on the bills for one drive in a playoff game, he's getting sacked, fumbling, and possibly injured.  our roster at that point of both of those years was pure cheeks compared to KCs, especially on O.  our clown squad on OL couldn't sustain a double digit play drive without any penalties killing it, nor avoid big protection mistakes over and over.  our "weapons" were ball dropper davis, diggs who is great but would just be double covered, and knox.

 

in 2021 when the OL for KC got hurt to the point where they were fielding the same kinda trash we had in either of those years, mahomes couldn't make the plays that josh makes happen and looked lost.

[CheshireCT]

11 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

Everyone knew that the scouts and GM would be fired.  Whaley didn't hire McDermott.  

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/26/bills-scouts-bracing-for-a-post-draft-house-cleaning/

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/26/talk-in-buffalo-that-doug-whaley-could-be-on-the-way-out/

 

 

McDermott himself said he wasn't ready to draft a QB and wanted the new GM to be part of that process (he knew a new GM was coming) 

 

https://theathletic.com/1167351/2019/08/29/is-your-guy-ready-for-the-league-inside-the-bills-decisions-meetings-and-scouting-trips-that-led-to-josh-allen/

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/chiefs-bills-nfl-draft-trade-patrick-mahomes/16opv91al12zs1j8dzwew6ol9e

 

 

Whaley...after saying they had worked on a trade for weeks, and knew they were trading out of the pick ,then says....but it's alway a possibility....well, yeah, in the sense that if they were at 10 and Mahomes was on the board...it was in fact, possible...and so was Watson, and Deshone Kizer, etc.  

 

The Bills, were not in the QB market in 2017.

 

I mean plus this just makes sense....they wanted their new GM to be involved in one of the biggest franchise decisions. They did what was right for them, and they nailed it.

[90sBills]

30 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Buffalo won two AFL championships. What more could they do? Sure, I would have preferred if the two leagues played, but it's an imperfect world. And don't give me this "more established" stuff. Favorites don't always win. As I said, the Jets, from the AFL, beat the NFL in SB III, after Green Bay won the first two. The Bills, AFL champs in 1965 would have faced Green Bay in the Super Bowl, but it didn't begin until the next year. We'll never know. 

 

Do you give the Lakers full faith for winning their bubble championship, or put an asterisk next to Roger Maris's homerun mark? It amazes me some don't give Buffalo credit for being the best in one season. Either that or many don't know Buffalo's history.

It’s hard to give credit when the competition was not complete. When I said the NFL was more established I wasn’t implying that the NFL team would win if they’d played. I was implying there were more talent on that side as it was more established. So you can’t expect most Bills fans to be comforted by those distant championships from a bygone era when the Bills keep getting knocked out every January. That’s why Romo’s ill advised moniker ‘Mr. January’ for Allen during the WC around was very cringey. Takes on a whole different unintended meaning when you keep losing. 

 

But if you personally can find solace in those old championships then more power to ya! 👍

 

 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

On 4/15/2023 at 9:23 PM, GETTOTHE50 said:

Mahomes has arguably the greatest offensive minded coach in history, along with a top 5 tight end in history, and a really solid offensive line.

 

If Allen had Reid + Kelce + offensive line, then he would win MVP and the superbowl every year for the next decade.

Yeah but Allen has a really cool secondary, right?

[90sBills]

20 minutes ago, colin said:

the simplest way to look at an allen vs mahomes comparison is see what happened in the two games in the playoffs recently where mahomes went down.

 

vs the browns in 2021 (post 2020 season, we got kinda trucked by KC at KC in that playoffs) mahomes goes down and his back up, a career back up, just held the team together well enough to win, and the kc d stepped up too.

 

vz jax in the most recent play offs, same back up no body qb comes in and kc just marches down the field w small play after small play setting up a slam dunk red zone score from inside the 5 or 10.

 

if you put that back up qb on the bills for one drive in a playoff game, he's getting sacked, fumbling, and possibly injured.  our roster at that point of both of those years was pure cheeks compared to KCs, especially on O.  our clown squad on OL couldn't sustain a double digit play drive without any penalties killing it, nor avoid big protection mistakes over and over.  our "weapons" were ball dropper davis, diggs who is great but would just be double covered, and knox.

 

in 2021 when the OL for KC got hurt to the point where they were fielding the same kinda trash we had in either of those years, mahomes couldn't make the plays that josh makes happen and looked lost.

So you’re saying Henne could’ve won those Superbowls for KC? As for Mahomes looking lost after his OL got hurt…was this the season they thrashed us in the AFCCG (‘20-‘21) or the season he broke all Bills fans hearts in 13 sec (‘21-‘22)? Cuz he didn’t looked very lost in those games. He did struggled in the Superbowl against TB when 4 starting linemen were out. I guess that’s what you meant?

[ShakAttack]

Funny thing is, I was wondering about a “what if” last night myself.

 

What if the Ravens never fumble on the 1 yard line against the bengals and we never had to face the Bengals - the team that was clearly our WORST matchup in the nfl - and hosted the Ravens at home in the divisional round instead?

 

We would then move on to play KC on a neutral field, a team that we have actually had success against over the past 2 seasons, and I highly doubt the team would have shown up “tired” or “uninspired” for a rematch against the Chiefs. 
 

What might have happened in that scenario? The scenario that SHOULD have happened if not for a VERY lucky break for the Bengals in the WC round? 

 

Perhaps the Bills are Super Bowl champions and we never have this conversation about 2017… Never know…

[chongli]

23 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

It’s hard to give credit when the competition was not complete. When I said the NFL was more established I wasn’t implying that the NFL team would win if they’d played. I was implying there were more talent on that side as it was more established. So you can’t expect most Bills fans to be comforted by those distant championships from a bygone era when the Bills keep getting knocked out every January. That’s why Romo’s ill advised moniker ‘Mr. January’ for Allen during the WC around was very cringey. Takes on a whole different unintended meaning when you keep losing. 

 

But if you personally can find solace in those old championships then more power to ya! 👍

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, you make a fair point and give a good explanation. I now see what you meant. Make no mistake about it I want at least one SB win too. The two Bills AFL championships were actually before I was born, but it is all I (and all Buffalo fans) have. 

 

[And I agree: Romo's comment was premature.]

 

Let's just win it...finally, and get the monkey off our back.

[corta765]

So without getting into the Allen v Mahomes piece, the 2017 draft literally set the table for the current Bills. Buffalo added Tre, Milano, & Dawkins 3 top starting players plus with the KC trade it also was used to get Allen & Edmunds by extension of the draft capital they had. The Bills literally added 5 top starters which included their QB to build a new base. Had the Bills drafted Mahomes you are not getting half of that and without going down the rabbit hole Mahomes is in a much different starting point himself then in KC. Circumstance and surroundings matter in every sports and organization and what worked somewhere does not mean it will work in the next. Remember the Bills cap situation itself in 2017 and 2018 was f*cked. EVEN if Mahomes went off you were not building around him until 2019 with more established pieces. By comparison while KC had a tighter cap they were in a far more ready made situation out of the get go something that took Buffalo 3 years to do. It is just so incredibly difficult to play What If when things are so vastly different in so many capacities.

 

 

[MJS]

McDermott wanted Beane to get there to have a full scouting season evaluating QB's before picking one for the franchise. QB was not on the table for the Bills in 2017.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

It’s hard to give credit when the competition was not complete. When I said the NFL was more established I wasn’t implying that the NFL team would win if they’d played. I was implying there were more talent on that side as it was more established. So you can’t expect most Bills fans to be comforted by those distant championships from a bygone era when the Bills keep getting knocked out every January. That’s why Romo’s ill advised moniker ‘Mr. January’ for Allen during the WC around was very cringey. Takes on a whole different unintended meaning when you keep losing. 

 👍

 

Allen keeps losing?  Are you still trying to tie "13 seconds" to Allen? 

[colin]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

So you’re saying Henne could’ve won those Superbowls for KC? As for Mahomes looking lost after his OL got hurt…was this the season they thrashed us in the AFCCG (‘20-‘21) or the season he broke all Bills fans hearts in 13 sec (‘21-‘22)? Cuz he didn’t looked very lost in those games. He did struggled in the Superbowl against TB when 4 starting linemen were out. I guess that’s what you meant?

 

no, silly!  i meant what i wrote!

 

it's pretty clear he's got a much better team around him, especially on O, and he's gone down a few times and his back up nobody QB has gotten production.  

 

why are you working so hard to put words in my mouth?  such a cheeky lil rascal!

[LeGOATski]

I have to wonder if Mahomes' brother and/or Mom came with him to his interview with the Bills.

[T master]

On 4/15/2023 at 7:26 PM, machine gun kelly said:

T, enough on the what if in 2017.  If you truly love Josh, moving on that’s it.  No rethinking every decision they’ve ever made and Whaley was fired the day after draft day and brake was hired immediately.  If you do t think beane was talking under the radar with McD who hand picked him, we’ll.

 

josh Super Allen is our leader and is who is best for Buffalo.  We have lots of other opportunities to improve and no argument from me.

 

it’s certainly not Josh as the problem.  I’ll take him over Mahomes anyday and that doesn’t mean I do t think Mahones is the best outside of Josh.

 

Josh will impress you but maybe 15 years will need you to be impressed.

 

Dam ya'll are pretty harsh ! I started the post with I'm ecstatic that we have Josh but i guess y'all either forgot to read that part or something

 

It was just one of those I WONDER type of posts & y'all act like the entire post was like i was slamming Josh saying he was a POS type of QB or something like he's no better than Peterman was .

 

Some people got it one said that if Josh was with the staff that the chiefs have they'd be even better than they are now especially with Andy Reid leading the way then there are those that think i am cusifying Josh 

 

I think y'all are a bit sensitive or something dam ...

[90sBills]

49 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Allen keeps losing?  Are you still trying to tie "13 seconds" to Allen? 

Do you think when people look at results of each year’s playoffs that they’d dig into the minutiae of all the games and look for excuses? Or do they simply form narratives based on results of those games. Whatever your personal reasoning is, and we all have them, Bills have lost in the playoffs. Knocked out every January. The qb gets a big portion of the credit when a team does well so conversely the qb also takes majority of the blame. That’s why they get paid the big bucks.

 

Some of you can’t or won’t tie Allen to the Bills when critiquing the team. He is a big part of this team. Its leader. When goals aren’t met leaders get blamed. He is very talented but far from a finished product. He has to improve along with the team to get to the next level. 

[2003Contenders]

Just some random thoughts and why no one should be "haunted" about that trade back in 2017.

 

First and foremost, even if the Bills had stayed at 10, they were not drafting Mahomes. Whaley was on the way out and the new regime did not want to entrust him with making the pick at QB. (Reportedly Whaley was enamored with Watson, whereas the Pegulas loved Mahomes.)  When the Bills were on the clock at 10 they reportedly were prepared to draft Lattimore if the trade had not materialized.

 

Mahomes is a generational talent -- but he had the luxury of having a red shirt year sitting behind a professional veteran in Alex Smith. He was also blessed with one of the all time great play callers in Andy Reid as his head coach and a very good supporting cast. I do wonder what trajectory his career would have taken on if he had played on the same Bills squad that Josh did in 2018 with no mentor at QB, a horrific OL and garbage at WR?

Edited April 17, 2023 by 2003Contenders

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, colin said:

 

no, silly!  i meant what i wrote!

 

it's pretty clear he's got a much better team around him, especially on O, and he's gone down a few times and his back up nobody QB has gotten production.  

 

why are you working so hard to put words in my mouth?  such a cheeky lil rascal!

I think we have very different definitions of working hard. 😂 

 

Bills overall receiving corp was better than Chiefs this past season. It’s not like Bills are devoid of talent. Davis would be WR1 in KC right now. 

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

Dam ya'll are pretty harsh ! I started the post with I'm ecstatic that we have Josh but i guess y'all either forgot to read that part or something

 

It was just one of those I WONDER type of posts & y'all act like the entire post was like i was slamming Josh saying he was a POS type of QB or something like he's no better than Peterman was .

 

Some people got it one said that if Josh was with the staff that the chiefs have they'd be even better than they are now especially with Andy Reid leading the way then there are those that think i am cusifying Josh 

 

I think y'all are a bit sensitive or something dam ...

You did the unthinkable for most on this board. Implying, hinting, thinking (as fleeting as it may be) that Mahomes might have done better for the Bills if he was drafted by the Bills. Triggered topic around here for sure. 😅

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Yeah sure. That’s the same hollow record as the Herbert one with best stats first 2 yrs starting blah blah. Both are possible because of a technicality. Which, of course, was Mahomes sitting out his first year. If you took Mahomes’ 1st 5 Starting years it’s not even close. There’s a reason he has won 2 league MVPs and our guy hasn’t right?

 

But that should not be the focus for Bills fans. Mahomes is great for KC. Awesome. Allen is very good as well. Let’s see if he can take that next step and win a 🏆 

Allen is not just “very good.” He will be a HOFer when it’s all said & done regardless of a ring. Also, It takes a team to win a championship along w/ good coaching, drafting, LUCK, etc. it’s totally unfair to put it all on the QB. KC has simply been better in all those those other facets. Put Allen on those teams and I’m sure he would have at least 1 ring. I could care less about MVP awards and other accolades. How has that fared for Lamar Jackson and countless other MVPs/Heisman winners? 

Edited April 17, 2023 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Do you think when people look at results of each year’s playoffs that they’d dig into the minutiae of all the games and look for excuses? Or do they simply form narratives based on results of those games. Whatever your personal reasoning is, and we all have them, Bills have lost in the playoffs. Knocked out every January. The qb gets a big portion of the credit when a team does well so conversely the qb also takes majority of the blame. That’s why they get paid the big bucks.

 

Some of you can’t or won’t tie Allen to the Bills when critiquing the team. He is a big part of this team. Its leader. When goals aren’t met leaders get blamed. He is very talented but far from a finished product. He has to improve along with the team to get to the next level. 

I don't care what other people think, particularly other teams fans. I'm confident that any fan with a brain when looking at Allen's performance in the 2021 season playoffs are awe struck. 

 

And if I'm going to assign blame for the Bills exits from the playoffs the last 3seasons Allen would be dead last on any such list. The real question is why do you and other Bills "fans" insist that Allen is playing a big role in these season ending losses? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I dont think anyone has made the connection until now.

it really makes you think 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't care what other people think, particularly other teams fans. I'm confident that any fan with a brain when looking at Allen's performance in the 2021 season playoffs are awe struck. 

 

And if I'm going to assign blame for the Bills exits from the playoffs the last 3seasons Allen would be dead last on any such list. The real question is why do you and other Bills "fans" insist that Allen is playing a big role in these season ending losses? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Allen was great during the 13 sec game…in a losing effort. That game was 2 seasons ago now. He hasn’t played up to that level in postseason since. This past wc playoff he single-handedly brought the Dolphins back into the game with his turnovers. If the Dolphins won that game he could’ve been mvp for them. Bills should’ve won going away. In the Cincy game he was really disappointing. You can’t score 10pts in the playoffs as an elite qb. You just can’t. There were plays to be made if you watch the game over. He just didn’t make them.

 

Yes, I and a minority of others, hold him accountable as much as the rest of the team. You seem to think the only way to be real fans is to say he can do no wrong and is the most talented ever. 

 

 

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Allen is not just “very good.” He will be a HOFer when it’s all said & done regardless of a ring. Also, It takes a team to win a championship along w/ good coaching, drafting, LUCK, etc. it’s totally unfair to put it all on the QB. KC has simply been better in all those those other facets. Put Allen on those teams and I’m sure he would have at least 1 ring. I could care less about MVP awards and other accolades. How has that fared for Lamar Jackson and countless other MVPs/Heisman winners? 

I’m only bringing up the accolades because you questioned Mahomes having the most accomplished start to a career for the position. It isn’t even debatable at this point.

 

Allen is very talented but hof will remain to be seen without a Lombardi. Right now he’s on the Phillip Rivers career track. 

[BananaB]

I’m pretty happy with Josh, he’s Buffalo. Pats two sidekicks would never of fit in here, and I doubt he would have left them behind. He’s lucky he was drafted to a team that was winning 10+‘games a year with Alex Smith, basically the dream situation for any young QB. 

[97bills]

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

A coach can make all the plays he wants.  He needs a great QB to execute it.  Mahomes made those clutch plays in those 17 seconds to get them to FG range, just like how Allen ran over those KC defenders in the regular season game.    Mahomes makes a little more plays than Allen right now.  Hopefully, the script will be flipped this year.   

 

A few years ago, the Bengals HC Taylor, was a laughing stock in the NFL...However, once he got Burrows he is not the real QB whisperer....give credit to Burrows.

 

If you want to say mahomes makes a few more plays then Allen ok. I can live with that, but you better believe having Andy Reid helps a lot. When you have two teams both with good talent, play calling and drawing up plays. Can definitely be the deciding factor. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

56 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I’m only bringing up the accolades because you questioned Mahomes having the most accomplished start to a career for the position. It isn’t even debatable at this point.

 

Allen is very talented but hof will remain to be seen without a Lombardi. Right now he’s on the Phillip Rivers career track. 

Should dump him while his value is high!!!  Go back to QB purgatory where the few of you thrive on misery!

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Allen was great during the 13 sec game…in a losing effort. That game was 2 seasons ago now. He hasn’t played up to that level in postseason since. This past wc playoff he single-handedly brought the Dolphins back into the game with his turnovers. If the Dolphins won that game he could’ve been mvp for them. Bills should’ve won going away. In the Cincy game he was really disappointing. You can’t score 10pts in the playoffs as an elite qb. You just can’t. There were plays to be made if you watch the game over. He just didn’t make them.

 

Yes, I and a minority of others, hold him accountable as much as the rest of the team. You seem to think the only way to be real fans is to say he can do no wrong and is the most talented ever. 

 

 

You act like the "13 seconds" game against KC was a long time ago. It was one season ago. 

 

The idea that Allen "single handedly brought the Dolphins back into the game" is ludicrous. The Bills as a team rushed out to a big lead and then got sloppy, including Allen, letting the Dolphins back into the game.  To say Allen would have been the Dolphins "mvp" if they had won the game is laughable.  Sure Allen had 3 TO's but he also had 352 yards passing, 3 passing TD's had another passing TD dropped and a perfectly thrown 55 yard completion dropped. 

 

Was Jim Kelly an elite QB?  I think the answer is obviously yes but in an AFC championship game at Rich Stadium he and the Bills O were held to no TD's & 3 points. And is Mahomes elite? Because in the SB loss to TB he was held to no TD's and 3 FG's.  I could go on but you get it.

 

Are you really a Bills fan?  Sure criticizing Allen doesn't preclude someone from being a Bills fan but the degree to which you attack Allen is over the top and there's no way a real fan throws the stuff out that you do.

 

And for the record what you're posting is not holding Allen accountable.  It's nitpicking the guy to death.  And while you do this you  ignore the reality that without him at QB the Bills are not even a 500 team let alone a yearly division winner and playoff team.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The 9 Isles]

Mahomes and Kelce and Andy Reid are a match made in heaven. 
 

I wish Mahomes had gone to Jacksonville or Chicago, he probably would’ve been benched at some point and the Chiefs wouldn’t have to torment the AFC every year. 

[JohnNord]

On 4/15/2023 at 8:10 PM, T master said:

Okay let me first say that i am ecstatic that we have Josh Allen as our QB he fits exactly what the Bills are in most every way a guy that had to work & is still working to be the best version of himself every year not only for the Bills but the community yet i have often wondered or had this question of what if ?

 

In 2017 the Bills got a really good player in the first round of the draft & i understand why they traded away there pick to the Chiefs to add draft capital to add other picks & even though Tre White has been a really good player taken in the 1st for the Bills just what would the Bills look like if they would have kept that pick instead of trading it & drafted Mahomes ? 🤔

 

Has any on else here ever wondered just what might have been if that would have taken place ? Also i wonder the thoughts of those in charge of that draft about Mahomes did they think he wasn't that good or was there something they heard in a interview that they didn't like ?

 

In 2017 that was the year before Beane came here correct ? Whaley was still the GM at the time or am i thinking wrong, i know we got Josh in 2018 which again i am very glad of he is a beast but this question has alway haunted me in some ways would the Bills now have 2 SB's under their belt if that would have happened ?

 

Or in part is the reason why Mahomes is so good is because of the leadership of the offensive guru that is Andy Reid ? I know this is a question that would only be answered if we had a crystal ball to see what the change would be like but was wondering if you all have thought this as i have .

 

I know we all have had thoughts in the past of why certain players were passed over & hind sight is definitely 20/20 to all the arm chair QB's in the Bills mafia but after seeing what Mahomes has been able to do in the relatively short time he has been in the NFL i ask the "What IF" question & wonder if any here have done the same ? 

Like you said, you can do this with so many players.  To add fuel to the fire I remember reading an article from Tyler Dunne where he said Terry loved Mahomes 🤣

The bigger question is, should Terry have fired Whaley along with Rex?  Because the whole situation in the winter of 2017 was not ideal in anyway for the Bills.  

 

The entire Whaley/Russ Brandon/Scott Berchtold regime was filled with leaks to the media.   McDermott wisely didn’t trust any of the incumbents and he was given the autonomy from Terry to make any change after a complete evaluation.

 

I get the impressions that Terry was advised not to fire the GM until after the draft, as there’s a thought that you don’t want your scouts/GM sharing.  It’s also hard to hire a new scouting staff and GM in January and then do all the personnel/scouting stuff but it has been done before.  
 

From McDermott’s perspective he 100% made the right call.  You sometimes only get one shot at a franchise QB.  Rather than taking a gamble on intel from the lame duck, untrustworthy GM, he stuck to what he knew - defensive backs.   He found an All-Pro and also received a #1 pick to help draft his franchise QB so I’d say it worked out.  
 

It does make you wonder if Beane gets hired along with McDermott in 2017, if they take the big swing to draft Mahomes or Watson and start “the process” a year earlier.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Billl]

10 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I dont think anyone has made the connection until now.

Right?  Like, have you ever wondered “what if” about that Norwood kick against the Giants?  In a weird way, I feel like the Buffalo Bills would have won the Super Bowl that year.