Next year's OL

[GreggTX]

Give us your starting 5 OL that you'd like to see. Be reasonable if possible. Who do we sign, draft or trade for. Name names. We know it's near impossible to get it all right, but we won't take it out of your paycheck. Just give it your best shot in the dark, so to speak.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by GreggTX

[oldmanfan]

Morse at C

Bates at LG, the big kid from Florida at RG (round #1 pick)

Dawkins at LT, Brown at RT

[NeverOutNick]

LT - Dawkins

LG - Bates

C - Morse

RG - Schmitz 

RT - Darnell Wright or Spencer Brown (whomever wins the job in camp)

In this scenario we probably have to move up in the second round or somehow move back in the first to get 2 early second rounders. But hopefully the draft falls just right and we get both without doing anything or even better moving back a little in the first and picking up and extra draft pick or 2 for other holes.
 

When Morse retires we have his replacement in Schmitz and worst case scenario for Wright or Brown is the loser could slide into RG or be the swing tackle. 
 

I’m not a fan of paying a lot of money for retread o lineman whose original teams didn’t want to pay for and who most of the time are overpaid for less production on their new teams deals.

 

If we’re going after a free agent position I say first sign Lavonte David for a cheaper 1-2 year deal (he’s getting old but still so smart and good) and then trade a 3rd rounder for Deandre Hopkins. We know that would instantly make our offense insane. If Hopkins can’t be had for that then sign OBJ or Michael Thomas to a one year prove it deal because they would ball out with Josh at the helm and with the incentive of proving they’re not has-beens so they can get that final big contract from some other team.

 

Now that Josh is protected for years to come, next year we can find the playmakers he so desperately needs long term. I’d love Zay Flowers and Michael Mayer but I’d rather have Josh healthy and not running for his life. This year we protect our franchise QB long term and patch work the weapons (unless we get Hopkins).

 

That'd be my reasonable starting O line projection while also filing in some holes elsewhere

[BarleyNY]

LT - Dion Dawkins

LG - Ryan Bates

C - Mitch Morse, Luke Wypler, Ohio State, 3rd round, heir apparent to MM at C, immediate competition for Bates at LG

RG - Nate Davis, FA-Titans, 26 years old, 4 years, $30M total ($7.5M AAV)

RT - Competition between Spencer Brown and Jermaine Eluemunor, FA-Raiders, 28 years old, 2 years, $8M ($4M AAV), winner starts, backup is the swing tackle 

 

I’d look to do something like this. Reasonable spending, good competition and depth, succession planning at C.  

[TheBeaneBandit]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

LT - Dion Dawkins

LG - Ryan Bates

C - Mitch Morse, Luke Wypler, Ohio State, 3rd round, heir apparent to MM at C, immediate competition for Bates at LG

RG - Nate Davis, FA-Titans, 26 years old, 4 years, $30M total ($7.5M AAV)

RT - Competition between Spencer Brown and Jermaine Eluemunor, FA-Raiders, 28 years old, 2 years, $8M ($4M AAV), winner starts, backup is the swing tackle 

 

I’d look to do something like this. Reasonable spending, good competition and depth, succession planning at C.  

Perfect. You could also trade Davis for Seamalu from Philly too.

[london_bills]

13 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

LT - Dion Dawkins

LG - Ryan Bates

C - Mitch Morse, Luke Wypler, Ohio State, 3rd round, heir apparent to MM at C, immediate competition for Bates at LG

RG - Nate Davis, FA-Titans, 26 years old, 4 years, $30M total ($7.5M AAV)

RT - Competition between Spencer Brown and Jermaine Eluemunor, FA-Raiders, 28 years old, 2 years, $8M ($4M AAV), winner starts, backup is the swing tackle 

 

I’d look to do something like this. Reasonable spending, good competition and depth, succession planning at C.  

What area would you draft Rd 1?

[Billzgobowlin]

I have a feeling Boettger will be in the conversation as long as there is a bigger Center 

[BarleyNY]

14 minutes ago, london_bills said:

What area would you draft Rd 1?

WR is my preference, but that depends on who’s there. I’d be happy to see the Bills move up for one (Addison, JSN) as long as they didn’t go crazy on trade compensation. 

[Nextmanup]

Impossible to say, because I would like to see at least 2, if not 3 new bodies STARTING that are not currently on the team.

 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

19 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

WR is my preference, but that depends on who’s there. I’d be happy to see the Bills move up for one (Addison, JSN) as long as they didn’t go crazy on trade compensation. 

Me too but a dark horse type selection could be TE if either Kincaid or Meyers is available from a run on WR's. We would have a pretty lethal 2 TE set with either of those guys.

[LyndonvilleBill]

Dion Dawkins LT

Ryan Bates LG

Mitch Morse C

Dalton Risner RG

Dawand Jones RT

 

Backups:

Boettger

Brown 

Doyle

Forsyth 

 

[BarleyNY]

11 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Me too but a dark horse type selection could be TE if either Kincaid or Meyers is available from a run on WR's. We would have a pretty lethal 2 TE set with either of those guys.

I think that using 2 TE sets would be great, especially if we aren’t in a spot to draft a quality slot WR prospect. Regardless I hope we get more talent at the position and Dorsey embraces true 2 TE sets. It could really help the run game too. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Dawkins

Bates

Morse

Risner

Dawand Jones (rd2)

 

Backups:

Boettger

Brown

Tippman or Wypler (rd3)

Doyle

inexpensive, versatile vet OL

[Aussie Joe]

46 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

WR is my preference, but that depends on who’s there. I’d be happy to see the Bills move up for one (Addison, JSN) as long as they didn’t go crazy on trade compensation. 

How far would you want to move up? And what you want to give up..

 

Last year they spent a fourth to move up two spots..

 

Keep the pick in my opinion ….

[frostbitmic]

LT - Dawkins

LG - Bates

C - Morse

RG - Avila

RT - Brown

 

Moving Bates to LG improves that position over Saffold

Drafting Avila improves the RG spot over Bates

I'm hoping Brown being healthy, will show improvement, but he'll get legitimate competition for his job this year from another high draft choice.

[Yantha]

I'm not sure of the lineup but if we're talking FA, I hope we get a new starting OG and RT out of it, one way or another.  The cap is a big issue.

[somnus00]

We need to bring in another RT, but we also have to be careful not to Wyatt Teller, Spencer Brown. Brown has the tools to be elite, but he needs competition and development. 

[BarleyNY]

26 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

How far would you want to move up? And what you want to give up..

 

Last year they spent a fourth to move up two spots..

 

Keep the pick in my opinion ….

This draft looks shallow at the top. By the middle of the first I think more teams will be looking to move back for picks than up for a player. So we might get a bit of a deal. You have a valid point though. Do we really want to move up from 27 in this draft? No, not really. But I also don’t like the thought of sitting at 27 with how I think the draft will likely shake out. We’d probably be one of the teams looking to move back - and at that point I’d probably prefer that. 

 

So the way I look at the situation is like this. I see Addison and JSN as first round prospects. I’d give up 27 and 59 for one of them. That should get us up to around pick 16. JSN is a perfect fit here IMO. The alternative is to draft two second round level prospects at 27 and 59. I’d rather have the prospect I think can be a real difference maker on our offense. 

[london_bills]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

WR is my preference, but that depends on who’s there. I’d be happy to see the Bills move up for one (Addison, JSN) as long as they didn’t go crazy on trade compensation. 

Agreed I think WR, G is the priority even if we trade next year's 2nd I'm ok with that. 

[Aussie Joe]

20 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

This draft looks shallow at the top. By the middle of the first I think more teams will be looking to move back for picks than up for a player. So we might get a bit of a deal. You have a valid point though. Do we really want to move up from 27 in this draft? No, not really. But I also don’t like the thought of sitting at 27 with how I think the draft will likely shake out. We’d probably be one of the teams looking to move back - and at that point I’d probably prefer that. 

 

So the way I look at the situation is like this. I see Addison and JSN as first round prospects. I’d give up 27 and 59 for one of them. That should get us up to around pick 16. JSN is a perfect fit here IMO. The alternative is to draft two second round level prospects at 27 and 59. I’d rather have the prospect I think can be a real difference maker on our offense. 

ok..

Im good keeping the second this year and finding a starter with that pick… four years for cheap…

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Give us your starting 5 OL that you'd like to see. Be reasonable if possible. Who do we sign, draft or trade for. Name names. We know it's near impossible to get it all right, but we won't take it out of your paycheck. Just give it your best shot in the dark, so to speak.

 

I'd like to see the Redskins' Hogs or our '90s OL, but that's not going to happen with this GM.  

  

It's a better exercise to piece together the OL that we'll have based upon legitimate players on the roster.   So based upon who's signed for 2023 ... 

 

T:  Dawkins, Brown 

G:  Bates, Boettger 

C:  Morse 

 

We have no significant depth.  Beane said nothing significant in free agency, so nothin' there but more 1 & 2 year cheap signees.  

 

Whether we draft an OL-man in rounds 1 or 2, or both, remains to be seen, but I wouldn't bet tomorrow morning's coffee that we will.  Beane's got a lot of holes to fill for reasons of his own making.  Arguably the most pressing is that we only have one starting caliber LB on the entire roster.  Maybe Milano's going to spend the entire offseason with Allen so that he can be the Superman LB this coming season and do on defense what Josh does on offense.  Then we don't need anymore and can install our paradigm shattering 4-1-6 or 5-1-5 D.  Move over '85 Bears D!  LOL  

 

... ahh, what am I thinking, maybe a 7-1-3 so that we can generate a pass rush without blitzing one of our DBs. ... hopefully.  LOL  

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

WR is my preference, but that depends on who’s there. I’d be happy to see the Bills move up for one (Addison, JSN) as long as they didn’t go crazy on trade compensation. 

I agree we must target wr @ 27 and prepare for saying goodbye to Gabe. I also like your OL structure. Not a fan of Spencer starting.

[Chaos]

LT - Dion Dawkins
LG - Joe Tippman (second round pick Wisconsin)

C - Ethan Pocic  Free agent signing (Morse cut - close to a Salary cap wash)

RG - Andrew Vorhees (Fourth RD Draft Pick) 

RT - Peter Skoronski (First RD pick, trade up)

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Chaos

[PBF81]

58 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Dawkins

Bates

Morse

Risner

Dawand Jones (rd2)

 

Backups:

Boettger

Brown

Tippman or Wypler (rd3)

Doyle

inexpensive, versatile vet OL

 

Good catch on Risner.  I have no idea why we didn't draft him over Ford back then.  He was rated the top pass-protecting T at the time, at least better than Ford.  I'm not sure that his career has soared to match expectations, but he's been improving in Denver and from what I've read he's a great pass-protecting G.  

 

I'd love to see him next to Dawkins, at least the left side of the line would be in relatively good hands pending on how Morse plays.  We need to start looking for a C to replace Morse too.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Morse retire unexpectedly.  He's a good candidate to be following in Jr. Seau's shoes if he's not more careful.  He should start thinking about his future more than another season or two of football.   

 

Presumably he (Risner) wouldn't cost a ton, IMO he'd be a fantastic pick-up.  I'm sure we won't sign him for that reason.  LOL  

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

5 new guys, brought in without input from Beane 

[PBF81]

51 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I agree we must target wr @ 27 and prepare for saying goodbye to Gabe. I also like your OL structure. Not a fan of Spencer starting.

 

Too early, OL and now LB easily outweigh the need for a WR so high.  

 

I also wouldn't throw Davis under the bus that quickly.  Sure, he's a disappointment, his career Catch% is abysmal, so he's not completely reliable.  But still, that KC playoff game that I'll refrain from using the idiomatic name for that game, in the '22 playoffs, he was monster and he was one of a a few players that showed up in our playoffs this year in the Miami game.  He outperformed Diggs in that game.  He had the same yards on half the catches as Diggs vs. Cinci too.  

 

Does he drop the ball?  He did this year.  Maybe that diminishes, who knows, but I wouldn't toss him after one season of the dropsies.  

 

35 of his 48 catches went for 1st-Downs, 2nd on the team.  His 1st-Down conversion per catch rate is higher than anyone on the team.  For a 4th-Round pick he's doing OK, better than average for most of our other picks.  Either way he's got another year, no need to panic and reach for a WR.  Besides, do we A, trust Beane to draft a WR worth of a 1st-Round pick late in Round 1?  I don't.  

 

No WR drafted after 11th overall last year outperformed Davis this past season.  

From the 2021 Draft, only one WR drafted after 10th overall outperformed Davis over the past two seasons.  Amon-Ra St. Brown.  

From his Draft, 2020, only one WR has more TDs, Jefferson.  Only one WR drafted after him has more yards, but that WR has half the TDs.  

 

The point is that looking to go Draft for a rookie WR to help us more than Davis does, with the 28th overall pick, despite Beane being Beane on top of it, is a low-odds probability even with the perfect pick.  

 

836 Yards, 7 TDs, and 35 1st-Downs is a lot to discard until you have bird in hand on his replacement as our only regular deep WR.  I have a strong belief that he'll improve significantly this coming season.  For all of the heat on Davis, he was one of Beane's better draft picks, particularly at the end of the 4th Round.  If we had gotten comparable value related to our 1st and 2nd rounders on Beane's watch we wouldn't have the litany of needs that we now have.  

 

Also, the past two seasons in the playoffs, four games, he's had 18 catches for 389 Yards, 17 1st-Downs, and 6 TDs.  That's a per-game average of 4.5 Catches, 97 Yards, 4 1st-Downs, and 1.5 TDs.  I think we can use a player like that.  

 

In contrast, the past two seasons, Diggs has had in those same four playoff games, 17 catches for 216 Yards, 8 1st-Downs, and 0 TDs.   That's a per-game average of 4 catches, 54 Yards, 2 1st-Downs, and 0 TDs.  Compare those two for a moment.   I'm not sure I'm willing to ditch Davis' playoff contributions in the playoffs, which are greater than any other WR on the team and probably Diggs plus the next one or two combined.  Juts sayin'.  Particularly when we struggle to find players to step up come playoff time.  Davis is far from our biggest problem in the postseason, in fact, to the contrary.  I can excuse a few drops in a relatively meaningless 13 win season otherwise.  

 

Diggs' Catch % in those four games ... 58.6%.  

Davis' Catch % in those four games ... 69.2%

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by PBF81

[wppete]

Can Spencer Brown play Guard if a stud OT drops to us at #27? 

[LyndonvilleBill]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Can Spencer Brown play Guard if a stud OT drops to us at #27? 

Personally,  I think he's to tall and doesn't bend at the knees enough to get lower, but some people around here think he can. I wouldn't be opposed to giving it a try, just wouldn't want to count on it. Definitely wouldn't prevent me from taking a stud RT and using brown as depth and/or a blocking TE seeing he still on his rookie contract.😉

 

I would add. Picture Dawand Jones at RT and Brown lined up as a TE next to him.😱😁

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by LyndonvilleBill

[1st&ten]

Lt---Dave Quessenberry

LG---Rodger Saffold

C---Greg Van Roten

RG---Bobby Hart

RT---Tommy Doyle

 

All guys already on the roster---Bills don't have to spend a ton of money. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. 

 

I do like many of the ideas\thoughts listed in this thread. I didn't offer a serious plan cuz I don't know many of the college prospects---I count oh posters here for that info then I'll check on a player's profile.  

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

Ideally?

 

Dawkins

Bates

Morse

Issac Seumalo or Connor McGovern

Brown

 

Likely:

Dawkins

David Edwards

Morse

Bates

Brown

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Too early, OL and now LB easily outweigh the need for a WR so high.  

 

I also wouldn't throw Davis under the bus that quickly.  Sure, he's a disappointment, his career Catch% is abysmal, so he's not completely reliable.  But still, that KC playoff game that I'll refrain from using the idiomatic name for that game, in the '22 playoffs, he was monster and he was one of a a few players that showed up in our playoffs this year in the Miami game.  He outperformed Diggs in that game.  He had the same yards on half the catches as Diggs vs. Cinci too.  

 

Does he drop the ball?  He did this year.  Maybe that diminishes, who knows, but I wouldn't toss him after one season of the dropsies.  

 

35 of his 48 catches went for 1st-Downs, 2nd on the team.  His 1st-Down conversion per catch rate is higher than anyone on the team.  For a 4th-Round pick he's doing OK, better than average for most of our other picks.  Either way he's got another year, no need to panic and reach for a WR.  Besides, do we A, trust Beane to draft a WR worth of a 1st-Round pick late in Round 1?  I don't.  

 

No WR drafted after 11th overall last year outperformed Davis this past season.  

From the 2021 Draft, only one WR drafted after 10th overall outperformed Davis over the past two seasons.  Amon-Ra St. Brown.  

From his Draft, 2020, only one WR has more TDs, Jefferson.  Only one WR drafted after him has more yards, but that WR has half the TDs.  

 

The point is that looking to go Draft for a rookie WR to help us more than Davis does, with the 28th overall pick, despite Beane being Beane on top of it, is a low-odds probability even with the perfect pick.  

 

836 Yards, 7 TDs, and 35 1st-Downs is a lot to discard until you have bird in hand on his replacement as our only regular deep WR.  I have a strong belief that he'll improve significantly this coming season.  For all of the heat on Davis, he was one of Beane's better draft picks, particularly at the end of the 4th Round.  If we had gotten comparable value related to our 1st and 2nd rounders on Beane's watch we wouldn't have the litany of needs that we now have.  

 

Also, the past two seasons in the playoffs, four games, he's had 18 catches for 389 Yards, 17 1st-Downs, and 6 TDs.  That's a per-game average of 4.5 Catches, 97 Yards, 4 1st-Downs, and 1.5 TDs.  I think we can use a player like that.  

 

In contrast, the past two seasons, Diggs has had in those same four playoff games, 17 catches for 216 Yards, 8 1st-Downs, and 0 TDs.   That's a per-game average of 4 catches, 54 Yards, 2 1st-Downs, and 0 TDs.  Compare those two for a moment.   I'm not sure I'm willing to ditch Davis' playoff contributions in the playoffs, which are greater than any other WR on the team and probably Diggs plus the next one or two combined.  Juts sayin'.  Particularly when we struggle to find players to step up come playoff time.  Davis is far from our biggest problem in the postseason, in fact, to the contrary.  I can excuse a few drops in a relatively meaningless 13 win season otherwise.  

 

Diggs' Catch % in those four games ... 58.6%.  

Davis' Catch % in those four games ... 69.2%

 

 

Career stats is all I care about. 

Catch rate %

Diggs 69%

Knox  64%

Davis  54%

....sorry dude but take away that 1 KC game and Gabe has had a 3 year career of injuries and critical drops. Time to search for a new wr2.

[PBF81]

38 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Career stats is all I care about. 

Catch rate %

Diggs 69%

Knox  64%

Davis  54%

....sorry dude but take away that 1 KC game and Gabe has had a 3 year career of injuries and critical drops. Time to search for a new wr2.

 

Way to completely disregard his 6 catch for 113 Yards (67%) and a TD in the Miami playoff game.  Except for him, we lose.  Diggs did nada.  

 

Using that logic, how about trading Diggs then too?  He's been pretty useless in the playoffs, can't even find the end zone, worse than Davis whom you want to throw overboard.  Except for his Miami game he's sucked in the playoffs this and last season  

 

Knox, same there.  In eight playoff games he's been entirely insignificant in five of them, average at best in two more, and has posted only one notable playoff game, our rout of New England last year when Allen and the entire offense was on fire.  

 

Look, I'm no defender of Davis, but we're not going to do better for this year in the Draft.  Also, we drafted a fine WR along with Davis, two rounds later, and didn't use him.  So what gives us the confidence that they'd use a rookie WR, even if they did have the performance expectations you have as rookies, which they do not, that he'd even be used properly.  My confidence in that is nil.  Why shouldn't it be?  The only decent receiver we had is one that Beane had to go out and buy and went out and paid top-dollar for because he can't draft.  The team we traded him for got an extra day-3 pick in addition and a much better and far less expensive WR.  

 

I simply think that this cascade of criticism being heaped on Davis as the scapegoat for all but the entirety of Allen's and the offense's woes is way over the top, particularly considering the options.  

 

If you think differently, great, show us the receivers drafted after 11th overall in the past two drafts that performed to standards that will make us better this season?  

 

I think we're stuck.  And either way, so OK, we expend our 27th overall on a WR.  Great, now what do we do for the OL?  LB?  I know, I know, Beane will grab some guy late in round 2 that "should've gone in round 1."  LOL  If we each had $20 for every time a team made that statement that failed to be true, eh.  

 

 

[chongli]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:52 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

Dawkins

Bates

Morse

Risner

Dawand Jones (rd2)

 

 

I'd love Dawand Jones as a T, but I doubt he lasts until our pick in the 2nd. Probably gone in the 1st.

Edited March 6, 2023 by chongli

[ALF]

I would think Kromer has a bigger say now that he knows what is here and needed.

[Kirby Jackson]

7 hours ago, chongli said:

 

I'd love Dawand Jones as a T, but I doubt he last until our pick in the 2nd. Prbobably gone in the 1st.

Maybe, just about every mock that I’ve seen or done (and it’s sadly in the 100’s) has him in like the mid 2nd. It wouldn’t be a stretch to think that he gets to 59. I think that if a pass catcher goes in round 1 to the Bills, an OL goes round 2. 

 

 

[Motor26]

LT-Dawkins

LG-Bates

C-Morse

RG-Risner

RT-Jawaan Taylor

 

Swing OT-Brown

Drafted-Mauch Rnd 2, Wypler Rnd 3. WR in round 1.

[TAinLack.]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:14 AM, GreggTX said:

Give us your starting 5 OL that you'd like to see. Be reasonable if possible. Who do we sign, draft or trade for. Name names. We know it's near impossible to get it all right, but we won't take it out of your paycheck. Just give it your best shot in the dark, so to speak.

 

 

Bring back the "The Electric Company"!

[JoPoy88]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:14 AM, GreggTX said:

Give us your starting 5 OL that you'd like to see. Be reasonable if possible. Who do we sign, draft or trade for. Name names. We know it's near impossible to get it all right, but we won't take it out of your paycheck. Just give it your best shot in the dark, so to speak.

 

 

what’s your starting 5? Kinda BS you start the thread and ask for a specific prediction but don’t offer one of your own.

[Special K]

Let's give the right side of the O-line a "Big Nasty" makeover:

 

LT- Dion Dawkins

LG- Ryan Bates

C-   Mitch Morse

RG- O'Cyrus Torrence (6-5 335lbs- 1st round pick)

RT- Darnell Wright (6-6 335lbs- 2nd round pick)

[Bookie Man]

Dawand Jones RT.