Who's our slot WR in 2023, Shakir or...?

[transient]

7 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Michael Thomas, 1 year, prove it deal.  Covers everything we need if healthy.  Big body WR, check.  Sure hands, check. Experience, check. Works the middle, Check.  Legit 1A to Steph, check.   That’s your solution, just gotta make it happen.  

Been in NOLA for 6 years. Have had Saints seasons for the last 2. Please keep this headcase away from our WR room!

[DCofNC]

Just now, transient said:

Been in NOLA for 6 years. Have had Saints seasons for the last 2. Please keep this headcase away from our WR room!

That’s why it’s a one year deal, he’s looked like he doesn’t want to be there anymore, hoping the change of scenery will do him good.

[BrooklynBills]

Hunter Renfrow

[transient]

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

That’s why it’s a one year deal, he’s looked like he doesn’t want to be there anymore, hoping the change of scenery will do him good.

Not even for a year, IMO. He's Sammy Watkins and the foot issue all over again... though I don't think he believes he's a lizard alien.

[I'm Spartacus]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Stop.  He was a 5th round pick…

I'm not too sure Bill Polian would have that same mind set. Draft picks are precious commodities.

[MrEpsYtown]

I like Shakir a lot and think he will get better with more reps.

 

I also would like them to sign Scotty Miller as competition. There is something more there. Lots of deep speed and short area quickness and has made some very big plays in the past. His production fell off as he was pushed down the depth chart, but he could be a cheaper, younger version of Zay McKenzie who can also make some plays down the field. RAS doesn't like their size, but Miller's numbers are comparable and will be cheap. 

 

I do not want them to draft a slot receiver. 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

13 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Lots of talk about needing to give Josh more weapons. I think most agree the other outside WR needs to be upgraded as a priority.

But who's playing slot? My gut says we don't have the money or draft capital to spend on a premium free agent or college prospect. But maybe Shakir is the answer.

190 lb. and six feet tall. Good size compared with some other slot guys like McKenzie (5'8", 173 lb.) or Beasley (5'8", 174 lb.). And no, I don't think 48-year-old Beasley should start for us.

What I like about Shakir: good attitude and focus (from the little I've seen of interviews and yes, this is very subjective); history of lining up in the slot and outside so he's versatile; cost controlled for years; fairly good speed; good hands and YAC.

Yes, he doesn't have a lot of experience at the NFL level but given our lack of cap space and our more pressing, arguably, draft needs (WR2, O-line in multiple spots, LB, safety, edge, maybe LB) I don't think we're spending a pick in the top five rounds on a slot WR. But maybe I'm wrong.

I don't trust McKenzie's history, hands, or focus. And I suspect Josh and management don't either.

Tell me why the slot starting job belongs to Shakir, McKenzie, a free agent or a draft prospect...

 

I don't think this is a question.  It's clearly intended to be Shakir.  That is what they drafted him for, to be the slot guy moving forward.  It is his job to lose.

 

We had Diggs and Davis, then everyone else were slot guys.  Yet stupid Dorsey tried to be an air out and push the ball downfield offense despite having like a dozen slot WR's on this team lol.  

 

That will not be the case this year, they will add another outside WR and thin the slot position.  Shakir and likely McKenzie (since he is under contract one more year and cheap) will battle it out for the starting role, it will go to Shakir with McKenzie back to what he does best, a gadget player used in specific packages and scenarios.  It's not out of the question they ditch McKenzie via trade/cut and maybe bring Crowder back to battle it out with Shakir.  But I think it's still more likely to be McKenzie given Crowders unreliable injury history combined with how much the team loves McKenzie and being under contract one more year.

[DrDawkinstein]

49 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

I'm not too sure Bill Polian would have that same mind set. Draft picks are precious commodities.

 

Polian also drafted in the days when they had 12 rounds, and sometimes 14+ picks!

 

In that case, a 5th rounder was a Day 1 pick!

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Because of Beasley I think people just have this impression that you can plug in a good undersized, quick receiver in the slot and be fine.

 

I would say that we should look at the position as the replacement of what the RB was for the offense in the 1990's.

 

In regards to 3rd downs.........it literally is.......the 3rd down back was essentially replaced by slot receivers.

 

And as Cooper Kupp proved.......if your best receiver is there that's not a bad thing.

 

That's why I say put Diggs there...........or sign Michael Thomas if he takes a reasonable prove-it deal.

 

The Beasley-lite approach they used last season was a major fail.

 

I like Shakir but I'm not putting all my eggs in that basket...........he looked like more of a "tweener" inside/out guy than a guy with true slot skills, IMO.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Because of Beasley I think people just have this impression that you can plug in a good undersized, quick receiver in the slot and be fine.

 

I would say that we should look at the position as the replacement of what the RB was for the offense in the 1990's.

 

In regards to 3rd downs.........it literally is.......the 3rd down back was essentially replaced by slot receivers.

 

And as Cooper Kupp proved.......if your best receiver is there that's not a bad thing.

 

That's why I say put Diggs there...........or sign Michael Thomas if he takes a reasonable prove-it deal.

 

The Beasley-lite approach they used last season was a major fail.

 

I like Shakir but I'm not putting all my eggs in that basket...........he looked like more of a "tweener" inside/out guy than a guy with true slot skills, IMO.

 

I like your overall philosophy, and I like Diggs there when we need 3-5 yards and if Dorsey would actually call a quick slant (to be determined).

 

But not sure how much Diggs should be there regularly.

[OldTimer1960]

56 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

I'm not too sure Bill Polian would have that same mind set. Draft picks are precious commodities.

Point is, you can’t count on 5th round picks as being long term starter.  Yes, you *hope* to find starters then, but counting on that is not wise.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

Since McKenzie is signed for a few more years I'd say they give him another shot, if he struggles I really liked the way Shakir played throughout the season but not sure if he's ready for that big of a leap just yet imo.

[Toledo Bill]

13 hours ago, Process said:

Hopefully Shakir. I wish we saw more of him this year so we could know if he's the guy. 

 

McKenzie should be cut. Zero reason to keep him when we could save $2M cap space. He offers nothing that can't easily be replaced. 

Maybe the weekly dance performances will go with him (and get Dawkins to refocus).

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I like your overall philosophy, and I like Diggs there when we need 3-5 yards and if Dorsey would actually call a quick slant (to be determined).

 

But not sure how much Diggs should be there regularly.

 

 

Why not, though?

 

Get Diggs open quick........get the ball out of Allen's hand a lot quicker.........solves a lot of the Bills offensive problems.

 

They still have to add another receiver.........but I could see Diggs having an 1800 yard season and 15 TD's from the slot.........maybe the slot work takes a year off the back end of his career but it gives him a potential HOF-chance-boosting season...........and more importantly maybe it tacks a year or two onto Allen's career.

 

Ideally the receiver you add can play both slot and outside as well..........I don't know if they can reach a SB without a good second WR........it seems to be a defining characteristic of SB winning teams in recent years. 

 

 

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Stop.  He was a 5th round pick…

and Stevie Johnson was a 7th Round pick, Andre Reed was a 4th Rounder. 

[aristocrat]

Jarvis Landry. 

[OldTimer1960]

17 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

and Stevie Johnson was a 7th Round pick, Andre Reed was a 4th Rounder. 

For sure.  I think Diggs was a 5th round pick, too.  That doesn’t mean that it is a major failure of an organization to not hit on a 5th round pick.  

Edited February 7, 2023 by OldTimer1960

[I'm Spartacus]

17 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

and Stevie Johnson was a 7th Round pick, Andre Reed was a 4th Rounder. 

Thank you, that was my point. We can't afford to miss on our draft picks, especially this one coming up (regardless of position).

[BBills_88]

I want some younger bodies

 

1. Diggs

2. Rookie WR  that could be #1.

3. Shakir - Slot

4. Davis 

5.  Mc Kenzie - back up

6. Another WR  (late round or Undrafted)

Edited February 7, 2023 by BBills_88

[Chicken Boo]

It should be Shakir, but this is McDermott's Bills we're talking about so it'll probably be McKenzie again.  

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

If they don't think Shakir is the answer, then why did they bother drafting the guy? We can't continue to swing and miss on draft picks! Can't afford to "experiment" on draft picks, and also not play they guy. Is our scouting staff suspect, or is it Beane?

Fifth round pick for a reason.

[hondo in seattle]

We're on a budget: Crowder, Shakir, Beasley

[somnus00]

14 hours ago, NewEra said:

I hope it’s Shakir, but if we scoop up someone better, great.  

Dirty is gadget wr5-6.  Had his chance and didn’t deliver like we needed him to.  
 

wouldn’t be shocked to see Beasley back and getting some reps if we move on from Dirty entirely.  

 

really hope for an upgrade @ WR2. 

Agree with everything here. The slot is very mental, hopefully Beasley can mentor Shakir (who showed promise). I'd be okay with Beasley starting the season with Shakir transitioning as the season moves forward. Like you said, we need a real WR2. Hopefully a playmaker type. Gabe is a great 3 or 4. I don't see a role for dirty anymore.

[hondo in seattle]

33 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Thank you, that was my point. We can't afford to miss on our draft picks, especially this one coming up (regardless of position).

 

I agree that we need Beane to be good this year.  But, realistically, every GM misses on some draft picks.  

[LABILLBACKER]

54 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

Agree with everything here. The slot is very mental, hopefully Beasley can mentor Shakir (who showed promise). I'd be okay with Beasley starting the season with Shakir transitioning as the season moves forward. Like you said, we need a real WR2. Hopefully a playmaker type. Gabe is a great 3 or 4. I don't see a role for dirty anymore.

I'd have no problem Cole mentoring Shakir for a season as long as Shakir's targets gradually increase.  I think Smoke, Crowder and McKenzie are all gone. Make Gabe your WR4 for his last 2 years. Then draft 2 WR's this season and 2 next season.

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Thank you, that was my point. We can't afford to miss on our draft picks, especially this one coming up (regardless of position).

Still, unreasonable to expect every draft pick to be good.  You can think it is an egregious miss if a 5th round pick doesn’t become a starter, but that isn’t realistic to expect.

[boyst]

oh how i wish we could have got christian kirk.

[OldTimer1960]

This was done a few years back and estimates probabilities of finding starters by draft round for most positions 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by OldTimer1960

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Most likely a platoon between McKenzie and Shakir.

 

Dorsey will also rotate Shakir in for Diggs and Davis on occasion.

[Don Otreply]

I just wish we would regularly play the guys we thought so highly of that we drafted them…, Elam, Shakir cough cough…, 

[Repulsif]

I think Shakir, if well coached (schemes), could become a young Hill

[Big Turk]

Josh Downs? Zay Flowers?

[Victory Formation]

I think the loss of a young and healthy Beasley is what poisoned Josh Allen last year. He missed having that smart trusty receiver that can get open underneath and find soft spots in zone coverage.

I’m not saying that Shakir is not the guy nor am I saying that Crowder is either, but Buffalo sorely needs competition at slot receiver. I wish we had a time machine and we could bring back Cole Beasley in his prime because that’s exactly what Allen needs.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Victory Formation

[OldTimer1960]

18 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I think the loss of a young and healthy Beasley is what poisoned Josh Allen last year. He missed having that smart trusty receiver that can get open underneath and find soft spots in zone coverage.

I’m not saying that Shakir is not the guy nor am I saying that Crowder is either, but Buffalo sorely needs competition at slot receiver. I wish we had a time machine and we could bring back Cole Beasley in his prime because that’s exactly what Allen needs.

There are some really nice options for the slot in the draft, hoping we can go OL round 1 and slot round 2 (or outside Wr).  We have to not reach to achieve that.  Better OL = more time for wr to get open and defense has to pay attention to run as well.

[MrEpsYtown]

I saw an article talking about Adam Thielen being a possible/likely cap casualty. That guy would make a ton of sense here as a big slot type and he would be a terrific fit with Josh. He’s big with great hands and his route running is amazing. He becomes your number two and he and Diggs can push inside in different situation. 

[hondo in seattle]

11 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I saw an article talking about Adam Thielen being a possible/likely cap casualty. That guy would make a ton of sense here as a big slot type and he would be a terrific fit with Josh. He’s big with great hands and his route running is amazing. He becomes your number two and he and Diggs can push inside in different situation. 

 

You may be right.  But he's 32 (a year younger than Beas) and his yardage production has declined the three past consecutive years.   

 

And I wonder how much he'd want?

[Pabstblueribbon]

He played pretty well with diggs in Minnesota..

[Eastport bills]

Shakir looked very promising and improved as he got targeted more. He gets separation and other than the long pass dropped against Miami, he showed good hands. I love Beasley so if we can give him a 1 year reasonable deal, he could help the young guys.

[vincec]

I’m not sure Shakir is an ideal slot WR. He doesn’t look especially shifty like Beasley was and he’s not a great blocker - but maybe he will start to play faster and his blocking skills will improve year 2.

[vincec]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'd have no problem Cole mentoring Shakir for a season as long as Shakir's targets gradually increase.  I think Smoke, Crowder and McKenzie are all gone. Make Gabe your WR4 for his last 2 years. Then draft 2 WR's this season and 2 next season.

I don’t see the Bills drafting a WR early. I fully expect a defensive pick. And as much as is sucks to write it, they actually need help there too, especially if they lose Poyer and/or Edmunds. That would leave serious holes at all three levels.

Edited February 8, 2023 by vincec