Should we trade Ed Oliver?

[RussellDopeland]

The twitter discussion that the Cover 1 guys have been tossing around- signing Poona Ford, trading Oliver and 3rd to Denver for Jeudy, then resigning Jordan Phillips or another such vet DT- does intrigue me. But if Oliver were to be traded, who would take the "whipping boy" mantle he's inherited from Edmunds?🤔

Edited March 19, 2023 by RussellDopeland

[IndyMark]

16 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

This has probably been mentioned before, but could Ed play DE or is he too big ?  He has quickness and he's listed at 287 lbs ---Basham is listed at 281 lbs.

Yes, this has been addressed prior (a lot) and "big" is a relative term for football.  Ed is small as it relates to IDL, no question.  He is about 25 pounds too light with shorter than average arms.  So, not only does that translate to his very average IDL play where he is easily consumed by blockers, he would fare even worse on the edge as a pass rusher.  He would not be able to generate the leverage necessary or engage OL in a manner that would help him win those battles.

 

Ed is dependent on everything around him being optimal before he can impact a game.  See both the Cincinnati playoff game (zero impact) and Detroit Thanksgiving game where he had impact (was going against a 3rd tier back up, DaQaun was playing as was Von).

 

Trading Ed is the best thing Beane could do as his cap hit is not proportional to his impact. He is just too expensive for what he does for our defense. 

12 minutes ago, RussellDopeland said:

But if Oliver were to be traded, who would take the "whipping boy" mantle he's inherited from Edmunds?🤔

 

Actually some of his were sharing concerns about Ed before this year, so for some fans he did not inherit the mantle from Edmunds, he was holding it all along.

[Chas56]

15 minutes ago, IndyMark said:

Yes, this has been addressed prior (a lot) and "big" is a relative term for football.  Ed is small as it relates to IDL, no question.  He is about 25 pounds too light with shorter than average arms.  So, not only does that translate to his very average IDL play where he is easily consumed by blockers, he would fare even worse on the edge as a pass rusher.  He would not be able to generate the leverage necessary or engage OL in a manner that would help him win those battles.

 

Ed is dependent on everything around him being optimal before he can impact a game.  See both the Cincinnati playoff game (zero impact) and Detroit Thanksgiving game where he had impact (was going against a 3rd tier back up, DaQaun was playing as was Von).

 

Trading Ed is the best thing Beane could do as his cap hit is not proportional to his impact. He is just too expensive for what he does for our defense. 

 

I agree with this 100%. It would open a hole, yet close a hole. But they need help up the middle, and Oliver isn’t getting it done, either in run defense or penetration. Is DT a better position to be drafting than WR, OL, or LB, which are positions of need that I would like to see in a trade?

[HappyDays]

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Enjoyed is past tense...

[mathja]

Something has to be cooking. 

[SCBills]

Yea.. he's getting traded.  Multiple emo IG posts.  Too much smoke now. 

[Figster]

 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

 

the DT $ market is through the roof.  Some teams might have really liked him coming out of college and believe he hasn’t reached his potential

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Yea.. he's getting traded.  Multiple emo IG posts.  Too much smoke now. 

certainly appears that way

[SCBills]

Just now, Figster said:

 

 

What's "meaningful"?

 

I am clearly not a big Ed Oliver fan, but tweets like this are also annoying.   We can move Oliver.  Look at what some of these DT's are getting paid..  

 

He's a young player, and he is talented - despite the very valid criticisms.  I am sure quite a few GM's were high on out of college.  It's a one year commitment and you get him in-house, with the ability to see how he fits on your Defense.  

 

 

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

What's "meaningful"?

 

I am clearly not a big Ed Oliver fan, but tweets like this are also annoying.   We can move Oliver.  Look at what some of these DT's are getting paid..  

 

He's a young player, and he is talented - despite the very valid criticisms.  I am sure quite a few GM's were high on out of college.  It's a one year commitment and you get him in-house, with the ability to see how he fits on your Defense.  

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve always likened Oliver to Dante Whitner back in the day. A really high draft pick who was healthy more than he wasn’t. Who was a solid contributor but certainly not a star. And who’ll eventually pass through the lore of Bills history for the years he gave us, but who’ll inevitably move along. Would the Bills entertain an offer now? Sure. Will they get a decent offer? I really doubt it. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[FluffHead]

Ed as part of a Hopkins trade….git r dun 

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, FluffHead said:

Ed as part of a Hopkins trade….git r dun 

Not sure how they are at DT  but if the Cardinals retained 6M like Texans did with Cook,  we'd only be adding 3 mil in cap space for this year with a Oliver for Hopkins swap. I assume we would also be sending a draft pick.

[TOboy]

I’ve been in the don’t trade Ed camp, primarily because it would be just as expensive to replace him. Plus he’s got a higher ceiling than other DT’s making $10M. 
 

That said, it does feel like something is cooking. If we can somehow turn him into Hopkins, I’ll be thrilled as our offense would become truly elite. 

[Simon]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:00 PM, IndyMark said:

So, not only does that translate to his very average IDL play where he is easily consumed by blockers, he would fare even worse on the edge as a pass rusher.

 

This is a giant load.

He's not only drawing doubles all year, which he was able to beat more often than most, he's also spent multiple snaps this year playing the edge.

As for your complaints about the Cincy game, watch the tape and in additional to doubles, you'll actually see him drawing THREE guys at times.

The Bengals staff clearly knew who the Bills' biggest defensive threat was and devoted a huge chunk of their game plan to him.

[Warriorspikes51]

Or we could just trade Oliver to a different team and then use that draft pick along with 1 of ours from next year to complete the deal

[4merper4mer]

People making Ed Oliver out as if he is some sort of terrible player is a joke.  Clueless.  I guess since Edmunds is gone, someone had to pick up the negativity slack.  

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

People making Ed Oliver out as if he is some sort of terrible player is a joke.  Clueless.  I guess since Edmunds is gone, someone had to pick up the negativity slack.  

For me, he is not a terrible player at all. But he didn't live up to his draft position and Beane doesn't seem to intend to extend him. Might as well get something if you can and use that cap space elsewhere. The fans on his new team won't hate on him so much because the draft position won't be a factor for them.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I absolutely loved Oliver coming out of college but he has been overall a disappointment. For where he was drafted we expected a lot more and rightfully so.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

People making Ed Oliver out as if he is some sort of terrible player is a joke.  Clueless.  I guess since Edmunds is gone, someone had to pick up the negativity slack.  

 

He's not a bad player.  He was supposed to be the terror on the inside.  He's not.  He's an inconsistent above average player.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I absolutely loved Oliver coming out of college but he has been overall a disappointment. For where he was drafted we expected a lot more and rightfully so.

He's a better player than McKenzie, but I have a similar feeling for both. I like their personalities. They sometimes make really good plays, but not enough. In Oliver's case, there's the added dimension of the high draft pick never quite materializing.

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

He's a better player than McKenzie, but I have a similar feeling for both. I like their personalities. They sometimes make really good plays, but not enough. In Oliver's case, there's the added dimension of the high draft pick never quite materializing.

That pretty much summarizes Ed Oliver's tenure as a Bill perfectly.  I thought he would be at least on Kyle Williams level.  But he just is not that good of a player.  (Kyle was a bigger man and had incredible quickness off the snap.)

 

Oliver was really good at UH.  But the Bills should have realized that he was just too small for his position to be worthy of the #9 pick in the draft.  Lets hope he really steps it up to elite level this season playing in a contract year.  It could happen.  Although more likely we get more of the same from Ed O.  

[ALLinALLEN]

I wouldnt expect us to get much back for Ed. Ed's a great 'Bill' but hes not a great player.

 

14.5 sacks in 4 years at a time when it seems alot of FO's are looking for QB pressure from their DL. It seems like he's looking for a lot too? His valuation is ~ $6-7Mil and I don't see a team giving up more than a 3-5 round pick for a guy they'd have to ultimately pony up a larger contract extension for. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Figster said:

 

Right after I commented and I saw this...lol. My exact thoughts

[The Jokeman]

25 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

For me, he is not a terrible player at all. But he didn't live up to his draft position and Beane doesn't seem to intend to extend him. Might as well get something if you can and use that cap space elsewhere. The fans on his new team won't hate on him so much because the draft position won't be a factor for them.

I'm in this camp, to me Ed shows up in maybe 3-4 games a year other than that he's kinda un noticeable and being a top 10 pick to me he should be at least visible in half his games played or so. I really liked Simmons going into that draft but when he got hurt before the draft and his stock fell. 

[Magox]

He's definitely a good player but he's not elite.  He has shown the ability to be elite but it's been inconsistent.

 

You don't trade him for the sake of trading him, he is still the best DT on the team and there is a possibility he could end up being an 8+ sack guy a year from the interior.

 

I wouldn't trade him unless you get something of real value for him.

[mjd1001]

I have no attachment to Oliver other than how good he is on the field.

If you can get something of value for him, go ahead and trade him. If not don't.  Right now, I'd say don't trade him, view him as a free agent you signed on a 1 year deal to try to be as good as you can this year.

[Figster]

27 minutes ago, ALLinALLEN said:

I wouldnt expect us to get much back for Ed. Ed's a great 'Bill' but hes not a great player.

 

14.5 sacks in 4 years at a time when it seems alot of FO's are looking for QB pressure from their DL. It seems like he's looking for a lot too? His valuation is ~ $6-7Mil and I don't see a team giving up more than a 3-5 round pick for a guy they'd have to ultimately pony up a larger contract extension for. 

 

 

Right after I commented and I saw this...lol. My exact thoughts

This guy tweets out good Bills related material daily. One of my favs... (@TheSportsBully1)

Edited March 22, 2023 by Figster

[Yantha]

With uncertainty at linebacker and lack of depth at the position, I'd say that now is not the time to bring more question marks to the D-LINE.  
No to trading Oliver.  Although I see the temptation.

[Low Positive]

What you get for Oliver in a trade is not really important. If he's traded, the BIlls free up 10.7 million in cap space with 0 dead cap. That's the asset. 

[Nephilim17]

If there's no dead cap with cutting him, can we release him but then resign him (if no other team signs him) at a lower salary?

 

Given no one's likely to trade for him, that seems like a decent solution.

 

EDIT: my bad: didn't realize if we cut him we eat the salary as dead cap. I assumed since it wasn't signing bonus that wasn't the case.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Nephilim17

[nucci]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

What you get for Oliver in a trade is not really important. If he's traded, the BIlls free up 10.7 million in cap space with 0 dead cap. That's the asset. 

because cap space is the most important thing

[Low Positive]

Just now, Nephilim17 said:

Can we cut him with no cap hit but then resign him (if no other team signs him) at a lower salary?

No. If's he's cut all of that 10.7 becomes dead cap. But if we got, say, a seventh-rounder we get all that cap space.

Just now, nucci said:

because cap space is the most important thing

It is if you want to sign somebody or trade for somebody. I'm not saying to do it just to create the space. Beane would have to have someone in mind and would do this as part of that move. 

[MrEpsYtown]

People are getting skewed by PFF numbers and sack production. Oliver is a disruptor. He does a really nice job in the run game against much larger people and he causes havoc on the pass rush. Sure he has his up and downs sometimes. I am not sure where this notion that he's terrible comes from, but I completely disagree. 

 

I'll stand on this island by myself if need be. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

30 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

 

You don't trade him for the sake of trading him, he is still the best DT on the team and there is a possibility he could end up being an 8+ sack guy a year from the interior.

 

 

 

there's also a possibility Elizabeth Hurley will come knocking on my door someday, too

 

[colin]

for either a long term deal on a Solid LT (mayyyyyyybe an RT if the guy is just sick) or a high quality WR type threat, i'd trade oliver and a pick, but at that point oliver is just getting traded to get his salary off to make room for new guy.

 

on balance i wonder if our FO regrets that we extended him?  I have to think the don't mind him for 1 more year at 10 sticks.  hes got a high profile being a top 10 pick on a top team, so he has all the reason to go get 10 sacks and get paid this year.

[Gobills14094]

trade him yesterday. Between his cryptic SM posts and cries for more money, I'm done with him. We can find a replacement for half the price that provides the same value.

[4merper4mer]

54 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He's not a bad player.  He was supposed to be the terror on the inside.  He's not.  He's an inconsistent above average player.

There are 4000 posts calling to trade him.  We are supposedly in a Super Bowl window so he must be real easy to replace, right?

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

People making Ed Oliver out as if he is some sort of terrible player is a joke.  Clueless.  I guess since Edmunds is gone, someone had to pick up the negativity slack.  

 

Yeah he's not terrible, just underwhelming given his draft position. People wanting to just trade him for a 4th or whatever are crazy. The only reason I'd trade him is if we're using the trade as a way to acquire a difference maker on offense. We're unlikely to extend him next year so I'm fine letting him go a year early if it still improves our team overall in 2023.

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

People are getting skewed by PFF numbers and sack production. Oliver is a disruptor. He does a really nice job in the run game against much larger people and he causes havoc on the pass rush. Sure he has his up and downs sometimes. I am not sure where this notion that he's terrible comes from, but I completely disagree. 

 

I'll stand on this island by myself if need be. 

Agreed.  For most of the season he was the best player on the D line.  His season ended with a thud but overall I thought he was not the problem.

 

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

there's also a possibility Elizabeth Hurley will come knocking on my door someday, too

 

Just fyi she’s almost 60.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Coach Tuesday