Beane End of Year Presser

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, Beast said:

I was listening to FOX Sports radio about 20 minutes ago. They had Donte Whitner on. 
 

The host played a clip from Beane’s press conference. The part where Beane talked about Burrow being on a rookie deal and not wanting to suck bad enough to get a Jamar Chase…blah, blah, blah.

 

The host then asked what he thought of that and Whitner said it sounded to him like a GM that is not willing to be held accountable for his own roster. Whitner then went down the list of some players the 49ers have and how the were acquired.

 

I agree with Whitner. I’m starting to lose faith in Beane running the show.

 

Maybe take a break during this extra-emotional week when you find yourself agreeing with Donte Whitner on how to be a GM.

 

I'll stick with Beane.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, ArtVandalay said:

Lmao you can't be serious, I've provided the information several times, your density and stubbornness to acknowledge basic facts is incredible. 

 

https://www.sportscasting.com/what-is-the-difference-between-being-an-nfl-all-pro-and-pro-bowler/

 

"First team" are the only "All Pros"... anything else is just a media runner up that never gets recorded in NFL History/Fact Book. 

 

FURTHERMORE, here is a link to the 2022 NFL Record and Fact Book (for the 2021 season), which Hyde is quite clearly not an All-Pro because he wasn't, 2nd team is nothing more than a runner up recognition and nothing more 

 

https://operations.nfl.com/updates/the-game/2022-nfl-record-and-fact-book/

 

Literally putting everything on a platter here for you including the OFFICIAL NFL RECORD AND FACT BOOK for the season showing you such. 

 

"2nd team" is nothing more than a runner up recognition, it means nothing. It is not "All Pro".

 

 

 

 Just because he's not listed in your little handy dandy fact book means he's not an All-Pro. You do find him listed as an All-Pro everywhere else that lists All-Pro players for 2021. The original source you tried to use( Pro Football Reference) must meet your standards or else you wouldn't have used it. Scroll down to the safties and you'll find him listed as an All-Pro.

 

 He's also mentioned in countess articles, from numerous sources, videos and during NFL games and every single one has him as an All-Pro. I provided 4 previously and that was just the first few I found. Just because your little book only mentions 1st teamers doesn't mean 2nd team All-Pros aren't All-Pros. I also found a few articles that state there are no alternates in the All-Pro selection, alternates are only found in Pro Bowl selections.

 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/allpro.htm

 

 

 

[Beast]

10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Maybe take a break during this extra-emotional week when you find yourself agreeing with Donte Whitner on how to be a GM.

 

I'll stick with Beane.

How’d that offensive line that Beane has neglected look to you for the past three seasons?

 

How about that defensive line that he has dumped all kinds of money and draft capital into? 
 

Because, to be frank, if you say anything other than both looked severely overmatched, you aren’t being honest with yourself.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Beast

[par73]

Depressing. He seems happy with Dorsey and Frazier, and there is no cap space.

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, Beast said:

How’d that offensive line that Beane has neglected look to you for the past three seasons?

 

How about that defensive line that he has dumped all kinds of money and draft capital into? 
 

Because, to be frank, if you say anything other than both looked severely overmatched, you aren’t being honest with yourself.

 

 

 

That wasnt the topic. Unless Whitner mentioned which OL he wanted to draft last year. How genius of him to sit there and critique in hindsight when the team is down. But I'll note your vote for Donte Whitner for GM.

 

For the record, I will always trust in Brandon Beane over Donte Whitner when it comes to team building. Or pretty much anything.

[Beast]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That wasnt the topic. Unless Whitner mentioned which OL he wanted to draft last year. How genius of him to sit there and critique in hindsight when the team is down. But I'll note your vote for Donte Whitner for GM.

 

For the record, I will always trust in Brandon Beane over Donte Whitner when it comes to team building. Or pretty much anything.

What about Whitner’s statement of Beane is deflecting accountability is untrue? For cripes sake do you have a reading comprehension issue? If I agree with someone regarding their opinion of the Bills and Beane that means I want them to be GM?

[BuffaloRebound]

The excuses Beane made for Rousseau, Philips, and Spencer Brown were half-hearted and particularly weak.  Rousseau’s high ankle sprain was 3 months ago. Phillips played good in the preseason?… did you expect a guy that out of shape and already paid to hold up? And Brown…why did you take him in the 3rd round if he was that far from being ready? 

At least he didn’t even try to make excuses for Epenesa and Basham.  

 

[schoolhouserock]

The folks asking questions kept referring to Cincinnati’s WRs, which I thought was the wrong approach. It was the questioning that elicited such responses from Beane. Given the line of questioning, I think folks are making a mountain out of this molehill.

 

More focus should have been placed on the performance of Cincinnati’s offensive line. That, to me, gets to the heart of what is wrong.

 

All of McBeane have ALWAYS stated that they build from the lines out. For the backup O-line of Cincinnati to perform so well is a devastating indictment of the Bills’ approach both offensively and defensively.

 

The questions should have centered around how do the Bills implement a system where any version of their O-line can perform like Cincinnati’s did in that game. Beane could not assign “lean years” as a reason in his answer. Cincinnati’s O-line was a mess last off-season. They have improved greatly in that area. They invested in their O-line, yes. However, their play after so many injuries suggests that there is something more to that unit’s turnaround. I don’t know what it is, but I hope the Bills can get it.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

What about Whitner’s statement of Beane is deflecting accountability is untrue? For cripes sake do you have a reading comprehension issue? If I agree with someone regarding their opinion of the Bills and Beane that means I want them to be GM?

 

Beane has never shied away from accountability. I dont care what Donte Whitner has to say about his interpretation of a sound bite.

 

But more so, you're taking this banter way too seriously. Again, might be a sign to take a breather. Emotions are HIIIIIIIGH this week.

[5ths the charm]

5 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

They tried blitzing. Joe Burrow hits the hot route before the blitz gets there.

Then it's scheme and the dbs get tighter for coverage to offset that

11 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said:

The folks asking questions kept referring to Cincinnati’s WRs, which I thought was the wrong approach. It was the questioning that elicited such responses from Beane. Given the line of questioning, I think folks are making a mountain out of this molehill.

 

More focus should have been placed on the performance of Cincinnati’s offensive line. That, to me, gets to the heart of what is wrong.

 

All of McBeane have ALWAYS stated that they build from the lines out. For the backup O-line of Cincinnati to perform so well is a devastating indictment of the Bills’ approach both offensively and defensively.

 

The questions should have centered around how do the Bills implement a system where any version of their O-line can perform like Cincinnati’s did in that game. Beane could not assign “lean years” as a reason in his answer. Cincinnati’s O-line was a mess last off-season. They have improved greatly in that area. They invested in their O-line, yes. However, their play after so many injuries suggests that there is something more to that unit’s turnaround. I don’t know what it is, but I hope the Bills can get it.

Coaching for the neccessary scheme and talent assessment.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

I was listening to FOX Sports radio about 20 minutes ago. They had Donte Whitner on. 
 

The host played a clip from Beane’s press conference. The part where Beane talked about Burrow being on a rookie deal and not wanting to suck bad enough to get a Jamar Chase…blah, blah, blah.

 

The host then asked what he thought of that and Whitner said it sounded to him like a GM that is not willing to be held accountable for his own roster. Whitner then went down the list of some players the 49ers have and how the were acquired.

 

I agree with Whitner. I’m starting to lose faith in Beane running the show.

 

 Whitner has never been known to be an intelligent person. Did Whitner take into account that we were down Hyde for the last 16 games, or Von missing the final 7 games. How about Poyer playing with numerous injuries throughout the season and was no where near 100% from the Ravens game on. That's the last 14 games. Or Tre out for the 1st 10 games, then slowly getting worked in as a starter and never coming close to the player he was before tearing his ACL?

 

That's 4 out of our top 5 guys on defense, plus numerous other injuries to the defense. I mean we were down to our 3rd & ultimately our 4th string FS during the Bengals game. People pissed about Sunday's loss are acting like what they saw was our original team.

 

 What other team in the NFL could lose 2 of their top 5 defenders, have 2 other top 5 defenders clearly limited in what they physically could do, plus be down another starter(Jones) and have another player playing with only 1 arm(Phillips) and still hang with the Bengals or even get out if the Divisional round? I don't think there’s a single team that could do that. 

 

 Are there some problems on the team that need to be fix? Yes there are, but mostly on offense. The defense wasn't anything like what the roster read in September. Good news Hyde is already cleared. With another 8-9 months and being  2 years removed for his ACL surgery, Tre should be close to what he once was. And Von's surgery went really well, they were able to reuse holes ect that they drilled from his first ACL surgery. As a result his timeline to return to playing is much shorter and he said he will be ready for the 1st game of the season. Their return is like signing 3 top tier players on defense. 

 

 There's been alot of playoff blunders and bad defensive play in the playoffs with this staff. I mean if you want to talk about last year's Divisional round fiasco, I hear ya.

 

 But if there was one year that I would think they should get a pass, it's this year. Don't forget this was a very good defense the first 7 or so games. And they were minus Hyde & White at the time and playing rookie corners. Only once the injuries started to really pile up, did they start to look bad.

 

 They held Tua & Hill to very little a week after they went off on Baltimore. And 7 of the 21 points given up were gift wrapped by an offensive turnover inside our own 10. Held Lamar and the Ravens to 20, even though a 4 yard drive and a 12 yard drive resulted in 10 Ravens points because of turnovers. Held Mahomes and the Chiefs to 20, their 2nd lowest output of the season. All this was done on the road no less. They were a much better team before all the injuries to very good players happened. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Victory Formation]

Bills GM Brandon Beane: 'I don't want to suck bad enough to have to get Ja'Marr Chase

 

"They right now are on the advantage of a rookie quarterback contract," Beane said of Cincinnati,

 

And they had some lean years and without getting too much into their build, I don't want to suck bad enough to have to get Ja'Marr Chase. I would love to have him, but you got to go through some lean years to do that. They were able to get Burrow at one, and I don't remember where Chase was drafted, but it was pretty high."

 

Where is the accountability here? Beane comes across as a total baby. You shouldn’t have to pick top 10 to get good players. How many assets did he give to draft total bust Tremaine Edmunds? And when he did draft in the top 10, why take Ed Oliver? Why did they trade Wyatt Teller for a 5th round pick? Why is he complaining about J’Marr Chase? We could have picked Justin Jefferson if we just sit still!

Edited January 26, 2023 by Victory Formation

[The Red King]

I really like Beane for a lot of his cagey moves.  He's been called a wizard playing 5D Chess, and I strongly agree.

 

However, for as good as he is at that, he really seems to be suffering with drafting.  Yes, he got Allen but aside from that there are a ton of misses and underachiever.

 

I think your opinion of him relies strongly on which aspect you're looking at, drafting, or wheeling and dealing.

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Wow! That is the blunt truth at its best. However, Beane does deserve credit too. He inheriented a mess from Whaley. He tore down an inadequate team and built it into a consistent playoff team. We fans were estastic with the turnaround, winning games, making the playoffs, and having a franchise QB. 

 

However, the fans and teams expectations have changed. A credit to the organization's success. The Bills were in everyone's top 3 teams in the NFL going into this year. Overwhelming favorites to win the Super Bowl. 

 

Beans is now backed himself into a corner with very little ammunition to retool the team. Paying the price his failed DL pick ups. His failure to adequately solidify an offensive line. The lack of weapons the teams has. Lastly, a coaching staff that has clearly become inferior to others especially in the playoffs. You can see the difference between Coach McD presser and Beane. Vastly and starkly not on the same page. 

 

Beane is a very intelligent guy. He can clearly see the writing on the wall. He knows the Bills team is likely trending downward. Of course he can't admit that. Instead, he had to give excuses and hope players develop and step up. 

 

I can see a total rehaul of the Bills organization within the next couple of years. Especially, if the team doesn't meet expectations. We fans should probably forget about making that Super Bowl appearance next year. 

Beane’s misses have put him in the corner, he hit on a boom or bust gamble in Allen and got a good player in Edmunds, from there he’s really not landed a single impact player in the draft and the COUNTLESS misses in FA have really hindered the ability to go get help. 
 

The media hype going into this year was a bit over the top.  Calling this “the most talented roster in the NFL” was a pathetic joke at best.   I sat here at the beginning of the year and said, the WRs are Diggs and a lot of hope.  Well there’s a reason that hope isn’t a strategy and we are looking at it.  Davis didn’t step up to the 2 and everyone else suffered. McKenzie drastically regressed, Crowder went full Crowder and barely played, a 5th round rookie looked like one and ya had to go dumpster diving to try to save the season.   Then you look at TE, over paid Knox (vs production anyway), let a good Vet walk and rolled with 2 guys that offered nothing.  The OL, again, had to have cap for awful defensive signings so we got guys off the scrap heap again.  
 

If you aren’t a Bills home and want more than a team just competing for the playoffs, then you have to look at Beane and REALLY start to question him.   Unless someone pops up from this draft and really takes off, this is another in a line of over drafted, under whelming players.  I’m a Groot fan and aside from Allen, he’s the biggest impact Beane has added, in comparison to the rest of league, he’s an average-ish starter.  The multiple whiffs on DEs and RBs is scary and for a guy thats supposed to be a defensive guru, I think it’s time he lets somebody take over the decisions on LBs, because that’s the weakest group of dog crap in the league behind the 2 starters, thankfully they don’t need a third, we’d still be 3 years out.

6 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Whitner has never been known to be an intelligent person. Did Whitner take into account that we were down Hyde for the last 16 games, or Von missing the final 7 games. How about Poyer playing with numerous injuries throughout the season and was no where near 100% from the Ravens game on. That's the last 14 games. Or Tre out for the 1st 10 games, then slowly getting worked in as a starter and never coming close to the player he was before tearing his ACL?

 

That's 4 out of our top 5 guys on defense, plus numerous other injuries to the defense. I mean we were down to our 3rd & ultimately our 4th string FS during the Bengals game. People pissed about Sunday's loss are acting like what they saw was our original team.

 

 What other team in the NFL could lose 2 of their top 5 defenders, have 2 other top 5 defenders clearly limited in what they physically could do, plus be down another starter(Jones) and have another player playing with only 1 arm(Phillips) and still hang with the Bengals or even get out if the Divisional round? I don't think there’s a single team that could do that. 

 

 Are there some problems on the team that need to be fix? Yes there are, but mostly on offense. The defense wasn't anything like what the roster read in September. Good news Hyde is already cleared. With another 8-9 months and being  2 years removed for his ACL surgery, Tre should be close to what he once was. And Von's surgery went really well, they were able to reuse holes ect that they drilled from his first ACL surgery. As a result his timeline to return to playing is much shorter and he said he will be ready for the 1st game of the season. Their return is like signing 3 top tier players on defense. 

 

 There's been alot of playoff blunders and bad defensive play in the playoffs with this staff. I mean if you want to talk about last year's Divisional round fiasco, I hear ya.

 

 But if there was one year that I would think they should get a pass, it's this year. Don't forget this was a very good defense the first 7 or so games. And they were minus Hyde & White at the time and playing rookie corners. Only once the injuries started to really pile up, did they start to look bad.

 

 They held Tua & Hill to very little a week after they went off on Baltimore. And 7 of the 21 points given up were gift wrapped by an offensive turnover inside our own 10. Held Lamar and the Ravens to 20, even though a 4 yard drive and a 12 yard drive resulted in 10 Ravens points because of turnovers. Held Mahomes and the Chiefs to 20, their 2nd lowest output of the season. All this was done on the road no less. They were a much better team before all the injuries to very good players happened. 

 

 

 

 

Did you consider the Bengals were without 3 starters on their OL and the Bills still managed zero pressure and got embarrassed on their own field, only truly down one starter on the DL?

[Old Coot]

I understand and sympathize with the frustration of those disappointed by the Bills' loss to the Bengals.  AS my dear departed dad would have said "They stunk up the joint."

 

I don't think that you fire coaches or the GM until after the organization does a through analysis.

 

Beane's press conference is just that -- a press conference and much of what he said was in answer to questions.

 

The fact is that the Bills are in cap jail.  I think that's why Beane referred to Bengals having Burrow on a rookie contract.

 

The trajectory has been up for most of the McDermott-Beane regime.  It has stalled but at a high level -- one game away from the AFC championship game.  You don't blow up the team or coaching staff yet.  If you change schemes (particularly on D) you may need new types of players for the new scheme. That's a step backward.

 

On O it's pretty clear that the Bills need a better O line and at least one very good WR to compliment Diggs.

 

How do you do this when you are in cap jail? Contract restructures, cap going up next year, let some of out FA playrs walk.

 

But above all, the Bills need to analyze their needs and prioritize them. I trust this regime to do that.

 

My 2 cents.

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

I understand and sympathize with the frustration of those disappointed by the Bills' loss to the Bengals.  AS my dear departed dad would have said "They stunk up the joint."

 

I don't think that you fire coaches or the GM until after the organization does a through analysis.

 

Beane's press conference is just that -- a press conference and much of what he said was in answer to questions.

 

The fact is that the Bills are in cap jail.  I think that's why Beane referred to Bengals having Burrow on a rookie contract.

 

The trajectory has been up for most of the McDermott-Beane regime.  It has stalled but at a high level -- one game away from the AFC championship game.  You don't blow up the team or coaching staff yet.  If you change schemes (particularly on D) you may need new types of players for the new scheme. That's a step backward.

 

On O it's pretty clear that the Bills need a better O line and at least one very good WR to compliment Diggs.

 

How do you do this when you are in cap jail? Contract restructures, cap going up next year, let some of out FA playrs walk.

 

But above all, the Bills need to analyze their needs and prioritize them. I trust this regime to do that.

 

My 2 cents.

Well, I agree with much of this, but I just don't think the passive D employed by Frazier is the answer. I agree with those folks who assert 1) The scheme requires too many premium athletes and the health of those athletes to be effective and 2) the defense puts up gaudy numbers by pummeling average and weak teams in the regular season, but struggles against better competition in the playoffs. Changing schemes may require a step backwards regarding personnel, but staying with something proven ineffective when it counts most isn't exactly staying in place.

[jahnyc]

The reality is that Beane's drafting, outside of Allen, has been, at best, uneven.  He has hit on some later round picks such as Milano, Knox, Johnson, Davis and Jackson, but has fared as well with his first, second and third round picks.  The problem with the early picks is that they are performing at a level that is generally below their draft position would have suggested.  Another way to put it is that our early round picks generally are not total busts because they are contributors, but they also are not blue chip or even red chip type players.

 

First round picks Oliver and Rousseau have shown flashes, but they are not consistent and seem to disappear at times.  Rousseau should improve, but Oliver is a disappointment given where he was drafted and who else was available at that point of the draft.  Late second rounders Basham and Epenesa are role players.  Second rounder Ford was a bust.  Third rounder Brown is playing like a third rounder and needs to improve.  Bernard, another third rounder, seems to have bust potential.  Too early to tell about Elam and Cook.

 

Contrast our recent drafting with those of the Chiefs, who have been drafting after us over the last number of years.  In 2021, the Chiefs drafted Bolton (LB), Humphrey (C) and Smith (G).  All are at least red chip players and Humphrey is a blue chip player.  Their 2022 draft class looks strong as well.

 

Bottom line is that the Bills need to draft better in the early rounds.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

32 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Beane’s misses have put him in the corner, he hit on a boom or bust gamble in Allen and got a good player in Edmunds, from there he’s really not landed a single impact player in the draft and the COUNTLESS misses in FA have really hindered the ability to go get help. 
 

The media hype going into this year was a bit over the top.  Calling this “the most talented roster in the NFL” was a pathetic joke at best.   I sat here at the beginning of the year and said, the WRs are Diggs and a lot of hope.  Well there’s a reason that hope isn’t a strategy and we are looking at it.  Davis didn’t step up to the 2 and everyone else suffered. McKenzie drastically regressed, Crowder went full Crowder and barely played, a 5th round rookie looked like one and ya had to go dumpster diving to try to save the season.   Then you look at TE, over paid Knox (vs production anyway), let a good Vet walk and rolled with 2 guys that offered nothing.  The OL, again, had to have cap for awful defensive signings so we got guys off the scrap heap again.  
 

If you aren’t a Bills home and want more than a team just competing for the playoffs, then you have to look at Beane and REALLY start to question him.   Unless someone pops up from this draft and really takes off, this is another in a line of over drafted, under whelming players.  I’m a Groot fan and aside from Allen, he’s the biggest impact Beane has added, in comparison to the rest of league, he’s an average-ish starter.  The multiple whiffs on DEs and RBs is scary and for a guy thats supposed to be a defensive guru, I think it’s time he lets somebody take over the decisions on LBs, because that’s the weakest group of dog crap in the league behind the 2 starters, thankfully they don’t need a third, we’d still be 3 years out.

Did you consider the Bengals were without 3 starters on their OL and the Bills still managed zero pressure and got embarrassed on their own field, only truly down one starter on the DL?

 

 They were down 2 starters. Jones & Miller and both Oliver & Phillips were banged up on top of that. And yes I realize the Bengals were down starters on their OL. What I'm saying is give me the 4 players I mentioned previously, all healthy, plus a healthy Hyde, Poyer & White and Give Cincy their 3 OL back healthy and let's play ball. 

 

 While I'm not foolish enough to believe Cincy’s offense wouldn't have some good moments, that game wouldn't look anything like what we saw on Sunday. And I don't think there a person that could convince me otherwise.

 

 There were a ton of injures on that defense, far, far greater than 3 OL being out. Were they all All-Pro caliber players like ours? Yeah let's play Cincy with our 3rd string FS, only for him to get hurt, let's bring on the 4th stringer. Or our SS playing with 1 arm and 1 leg and let's lose him also, bring on the 2nd stringer. Or our star CB playing on 1 leg or the best pass rusher we've had in a while, let's lose him too. Then have to play Burrow and the best WR trio in the NFL. 

 

I admit I was blinded by the wins, they just kept winning week after week. But once they lost and I really thought of the talent either not playing or playing with clear limitations, I got only one question...how did anyone think we had a chance? 

 

 

 

 

[newcam2012]

43 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

I understand and sympathize with the frustration of those disappointed by the Bills' loss to the Bengals.  AS my dear departed dad would have said "They stunk up the joint."

 

I don't think that you fire coaches or the GM until after the organization does a through analysis.

 

Beane's press conference is just that -- a press conference and much of what he said was in answer to questions.

 

The fact is that the Bills are in cap jail.  I think that's why Beane referred to Bengals having Burrow on a rookie contract.

 

The trajectory has been up for most of the McDermott-Beane regime.  It has stalled but at a high level -- one game away from the AFC championship game.  You don't blow up the team or coaching staff yet.  If you change schemes (particularly on D) you may need new types of players for the new scheme. That's a step backward.

 

On O it's pretty clear that the Bills need a better O line and at least one very good WR to compliment Diggs.

 

How do you do this when you are in cap jail? Contract restructures, cap going up next year, let some of out FA playrs walk.

 

But above all, the Bills need to analyze their needs and prioritize them. I trust this regime to do that.

 

My 2 cents.

The regime is great a building a program. Building a winning culture and going to the playoffs. I have confidence they can win regular season games. Make playoff appearances.

 

The regime had yet to show they can even get to an AFC final game and obviously the Super Bowl. I have serious doubts they can achieve this. 

 

Yes there are way worse organizations. Watching the GM's and coache's final season press conference was not vote of confidence. They seem to not be in unison nor on the same page. Not a glowing recipe for success. So feels like the Bills organization is on the down swing. Six playoff appearances is really nice as well as AFC east titles. As Josh Allen say he wants to win the Super Bowl. 

 

 

[Nextmanup]

33 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

The reality is that Beane's drafting, outside of Allen, has been, at best, uneven.  He has hit on some later round picks such as Milano, Knox, Johnson, Davis and Jackson, but has fared as well with his first, second and third round picks.  The problem with the early picks is that they are performing at a level that is generally below their draft position would have suggested.  Another way to put it is that our early round picks generally are not total busts because they are contributors, but they also are not blue chip or even red chip type players.

 

First round picks Oliver and Rousseau have shown flashes, but they are not consistent and seem to disappear at times.  Rousseau should improve, but Oliver is a disappointment given where he was drafted and who else was available at that point of the draft.  Late second rounders Basham and Epenesa are role players.  Second rounder Ford was a bust.  Third rounder Brown is playing like a third rounder and needs to improve.  Bernard, another third rounder, seems to have bust potential.  Too early to tell about Elam and Cook.

 

Contrast our recent drafting with those of the Chiefs, who have been drafting after us over the last number of years.  In 2021, the Chiefs drafted Bolton (LB), Humphrey (C) and Smith (G).  All are at least red chip players and Humphrey is a blue chip player.  Their 2022 draft class looks strong as well.

 

Bottom line is that the Bills need to draft better in the early rounds.

It begs the question: what if Josh hadn't panned out, as the odds overwhelmingly suggested?

 

Where would we be these last years if Josh is a total bust?  

 

We'd probably be .500 at best and still searching for a good QB.

 

 

[DrPJax]

On 1/24/2023 at 3:40 PM, Big Blitz said:

Essentially just said Dorsey will be back 

I don’t think it’s a great idea , but depends if better can convinced to come in. What worries me is we see failure after failure from the defensive scheme In the playoffs , yet they keep sticking with Frazier.  It’s says something that Frazier is not even getting hc interviews at this point.  Mcd just continues to be stuck in this rut defensively  , so I really find it hard to fathom he will change after just one year with Dorsey and I’m expecting to hear how his second year will show tremendous growth.  This o just scored 10 points at home against a d that had not played them before.  That is not a confidence builder.  
 

I know Josh loves dorsey , but you know what , it’s like being in business with your best friend or family , it tends to not work out well.  Dorsey seems like a peer , not a leader or authority figure like Daboll was for Josh and I think the undisciplined play we saw at times was the result.  Burrows hit his backs and check downs and they dominated a terrible defensive scheme.  Josh either isn’t given the protection, the options to backs etc , or he just won’t get the ball out quickly as he held the ball the longest of any of the playoff qbs.  I chose to believe this is on dorsey and a very diverse lacking playbook. 

 

Probably best to only change so much and if given a choice , I would move from Frazier and hope Dorsey does grow.  We know what Frazier is as does the rest of the nfl now. A DC with a consistent top “5” D , that can’t get a hc job , is a huge red flag.  Dorsey , a first year OC got an interview and even with the Rooney rule , Frazier is not being considered as a serious candidate should open an owners eyes. If Mcd can’t move from that , as much as I respect him , he is showing a blind spot or loyalty that he is placing above his own career.  

[3rdand12]

15 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

I don’t think it’s a great idea , but depends if better can convinced to come in. What worries me is we see failure after failure from the defensive scheme In the playoffs , yet they keep sticking with Frazier.  It’s says something that Frazier is not even getting hc interviews at this point.  Mcd just continues to be stuck in this rut defensively  , so I really find it hard to fathom he will change after just one year with Dorsey and I’m expecting to hear how his second year will show tremendous growth.  This o just scored 10 points at home against a d that had not played them before.  That is not a confidence builder.  
 

I know Josh loves dorsey , but you know what , it’s like being in business with your best friend or family , it tends to not work out well.  Dorsey seems like a peer , not a leader or authority figure like Daboll was for Josh and I think the undisciplined play we saw at times was the result.  Burrows hit his backs and check downs and they dominated a terrible defensive scheme.  Josh either isn’t given the protection, the options to backs etc , or he just won’t get the ball out quickly as he held the ball the longest of any of the playoff qbs.  I chose to believe this is on dorsey and a very diverse lacking playbook. 

 

Probably best to only change so much and if given a choice , I would move from Frazier and hope Dorsey does grow.  We know what Frazier is as does the rest of the nfl now. A DC with a consistent top “5” D , that can’t get a hc job , is a huge red flag.  Dorsey , a first year OC got an interview and even with the Rooney rule , Frazier is not being considered as a serious candidate should open an owners eyes. If Mcd can’t move from that , as much as I respect him , he is showing a blind spot or loyalty that he is placing above his own career.  

Good points
 I have said that Dorsey is Josh's buddy and like Davis Webb were nearly peers.
Josh needs direction and discipline as most kids do.
Not to take away his growth and maturing before our eyes. But his Coach needs to be levels above that.
This was McDermott's mistake in not having someone watching over the "Kid" Dorsey. And then also, letting it go on so look with a course correction to create a sustainable offense from week to week.
 So many folks have rightly pointed to what seems obvious . 

 Always more than meets the eye . But some things are just right in front of you

[Donuts and Doritos]

2 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 They were down 2 starters. Jones & Miller and both Oliver & Phillips were banged up on top of that. And yes I realize the Bengals were down starters on their OL. What I'm saying is give me the 4 players I mentioned previously, all healthy, plus a healthy Hyde, Poyer & White and Give Cincy their 3 OL back healthy and let's play ball. 

 

 While I'm not foolish enough to believe Cincy’s offense wouldn't have some good moments, that game wouldn't look anything like what we saw on Sunday. And I don't think there a person that could convince me otherwise.

 

 There were a ton of injures on that defense, far, far greater than 3 OL being out. Were they all All-Pro caliber players like ours? Yeah let's play Cincy with our 3rd string FS, only for him to get hurt, let's bring on the 4th stringer. Or our SS playing with 1 arm and 1 leg and let's lose him also, bring on the 2nd stringer. Or our star CB playing on 1 leg or the best pass rusher we've had in a while, let's lose him too. Then have to play Burrow and the best WR trio in the NFL. 

 

I admit I was blinded by the wins, they just kept winning week after week. But once they lost and I really thought of the talent either not playing or playing with clear limitations, I got only one question...how did anyone think we had a chance? 

 

 

 

 

 

None of the players you mentioned played offense, so it doesn't fix the only scoring 10 pts problem. 

 

Excuses can be made if people want for the D. But the O isn't good enough & needs to be fixed.  

 

Beane's presser is discouraging bc he seems to think there is no problem & sounds like he's content to run it back. If he does, don't hold your breath that they'll get a different outcome next year.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

7 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

 

None of the players you mentioned played offense, so it doesn't fix the only scoring 10 pts problem. 

 

Excuses can be made if people want for the D. But the O isn't good enough & needs to be fixed.  

 

Beane's presser is discouraging bc he seems to think there is no problem & sounds like he's content to run it back. If he does, don't hold your breath that they'll get a different outcome next year.

 

 I don't put any stock in Beane’s pressies as far as future moves go. He rarely tells the truth. And I don't disagree with the offense needs help both with players and steady playcalling. And how about we actually use Cook and Hines and find ways to get them involved in the passing game as well. They're fast and we lack speed on offense.

 

 Does Dorsey need an offseason to put together a game plan? I thought the Rams game was called beautifully. 1st drive, right down the field TD.  It looked really easy. They installed a quick passing attack to counter Aaron Donald. Once the corners started sitting on shorter routes they went deep. Not only going deep, but waiting till Donald wasn't in the game. It was smart and had purpose. The only time they really got stopped was because of turnovers. I remember thinking great game, gotta clean up those turnovers, but for the first game of the year, boy did they look good. Like playoffs last year goid, just with some sloppiness. After the game I think I said Daboll who? Outloud even. Boy was I bamboozled.😂

 

 

 

 

[jahnyc]

Wonder what role Mike Shula played this season on the coaching staff.  I don't think I heard a word about him during the season.

[ArtVandalay]

4 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Just because he's not listed in your little handy dandy fact book means he's not an All-Pro. You do find him listed as an All-Pro everywhere else that lists All-Pro players for 2021. The original source you tried to use( Pro Football Reference) must meet your standards or else you wouldn't have used it. Scroll down to the safties and you'll find him listed as an All-Pro.

 

 He's also mentioned in countess articles, from numerous sources, videos and during NFL games and every single one has him as an All-Pro. I provided 4 previously and that was just the first few I found. Just because your little book only mentions 1st teamers doesn't mean 2nd team All-Pros aren't All-Pros. I also found a few articles that state there are no alternates in the All-Pro selection, alternates are only found in Pro Bowl selections.

 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/allpro.htm

 

 

 

It's not my little handy book is the official nfl records lmao.

 

You're a lost cause. Facts and official documents ignore them all and live in ignorance good luck. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, ArtVandalay said:

It's not my little handy book is the official nfl records lmao.

 

You're a lost cause. Facts and official documents ignore them all and live in ignorance good luck. 

 

 Yup. Meanwhile teams, coaches, sportscasters, the players and media themselves all call them All-Pro players. You are the first person I've come across in 45 years of following football that doesn't. If they're All-Pro players to them, you know everyone involved in football and covers football, then they're All-Pro players. Micah Hyde is clearly referred to as an All-Pro Safety, that's been proven.

 

 

 

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

3 hours ago, jahnyc said:

The reality is that Beane's drafting, outside of Allen, has been, at best, uneven.  He has hit on some later round picks such as Milano, Knox, Johnson, Davis and Jackson, but has fared as well with his first, second and third round picks.  The problem with the early picks is that they are performing at a level that is generally below their draft position would have suggested.  Another way to put it is that our early round picks generally are not total busts because they are contributors, but they also are not blue chip or even red chip type players.

 

First round picks Oliver and Rousseau have shown flashes, but they are not consistent and seem to disappear at times.  Rousseau should improve, but Oliver is a disappointment given where he was drafted and who else was available at that point of the draft.  Late second rounders Basham and Epenesa are role players.  Second rounder Ford was a bust.  Third rounder Brown is playing like a third rounder and needs to improve.  Bernard, another third rounder, seems to have bust potential.  Too early to tell about Elam and Cook.

 

Contrast our recent drafting with those of the Chiefs, who have been drafting after us over the last number of years.  In 2021, the Chiefs drafted Bolton (LB), Humphrey (C) and Smith (G).  All are at least red chip players and Humphrey is a blue chip player.  Their 2022 draft class looks strong as well.

 

Bottom line is that the Bills need to draft better in the early rounds.

Beane did not draft Milano, Dawkins or White. That was McDermott and Whaley/ assistants

[Old Coot]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

The regime is great a building a program. Building a winning culture and going to the playoffs. I have confidence they can win regular season games. Make playoff appearances.

Agreed. They have gone from the Drought to making the playoffs each year.

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

 

The regime had yet to show they can even get to an AFC final game and obviously the Super Bowl. I have serious doubts they can achieve this. 

Agreed re your first sentence. Re your second sentence none of us really know what the future holds. That said, it remains to be seen whether the team can advance further.

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

 

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

18 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Yup. Meanwhile teams, coaches, sportscasters, the players and media themselves all call them All-Pro players. You are the first person I've come across in 45 years of following football that doesn't. If they're All-Pro players to them, you know everyone involved in football and covers football, then they're All-Pro players. Micah Hyde is clearly referred to as an All-Pro Safety, that's been proven.

 

 

 

 

 

2nd team is a runner up bud, it means NOTHING. Zip. Just like MVP "finalist". Even on pro football reference he has no all pro badge at the top. There is only 1 all pro at each position for each of the 3 media publications. 

 

Literally provided you the official NFL Records from the NFL itself.

 

FYI FROM YOUR OWN WIKI YOU (OR SOMEONE) PREVIOUSLY POSTED:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro

 

"The first team consists of the top one or two players at each position; the second team consists of the runners-up at each position."

 

Some people just can't be helped.  Good day. 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by ArtVandalay

[Old Coot]

3 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I agree with much of this, but I just don't think the passive D employed by Frazier is the answer. I agree with those folks who assert 1) The scheme requires too many premium athletes and the health of those athletes to be effective and 2) the defense puts up gaudy numbers by pummeling average and weak teams in the regular season, but struggles against better competition in the playoffs. Changing schemes may require a step backwards regarding personnel, but staying with something proven ineffective when it counts most isn't exactly staying in place.

Good point about the scheme.  It would be useful to know whether other teams have reached / won the Superbowl with a passive scheme.  Note: this is a general question for the forum. If you know the answer please enlighten us.

[RocCityRoller]

The more I hear it the worse it sounds.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

23 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

2nd team is a runner up bud, it means NOTHING. Zip. Just like MVP "finalist". Even on pro football reference he has no all pro badge at the top. There is only 1 all pro at each position for each of the 3 media publications. 

 

Literally provided you the official NFL Records from the NFL itself.

 

FYI FROM YOUR OWN WIKI YOU (OR SOMEONE) PREVIOUSLY POSTED:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro

 

"The first team consists of the top one or two players at each position; the second team consists of the runners-up at each position."

 

Some people just can't be helped.  Good day. 

 

 

 Yes a runner up to the 1st team, I never said that wasn't the case. But there's a 2nd team also. They are still All-Pros, they're just not 1st team All-Pros. 

 

 While I did not provide that link, I did look at it. Earlier you referred to the 2nd team All-Pros as "alternates", it states that there are no alternates in the All-Pro selection process. Therefore they're All-Pros. 

 

 But hey, be the only person to think that way. You and your little book.😂😂

 

 

 

[SectionC3]

11 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

I was a McDermott fan until seeing a much worse version of 13 seconds... we were totally unprepared and poor coaching really hurt us badly. It's not an overreaction when #BillsMafia were all wondering why in the hell we didn't do JACK on defense to adjust and to bring more blitzes since it was obvious our front 4 were not getting ANYTHING done. and Dorsey's play calling looked foolish and amateurish.

We blitzed on the Chase TD.  Didn’t get home.  

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, jahnyc said:

The reality is that Beane's drafting, outside of Allen, has been, at best, uneven.  He has hit on some later round picks such as Milano, Knox, Johnson, Davis and Jackson, but has fared as well with his first, second and third round picks.  The problem with the early picks is that they are performing at a level that is generally below their draft position would have suggested.  Another way to put it is that our early round picks generally are not total busts because they are contributors, but they also are not blue chip or even red chip type players.

 

First round picks Oliver and Rousseau have shown flashes, but they are not consistent and seem to disappear at times.  Rousseau should improve, but Oliver is a disappointment given where he was drafted and who else was available at that point of the draft.  Late second rounders Basham and Epenesa are role players.  Second rounder Ford was a bust.  Third rounder Brown is playing like a third rounder and needs to improve.  Bernard, another third rounder, seems to have bust potential.  Too early to tell about Elam and Cook.

 

Contrast our recent drafting with those of the Chiefs, who have been drafting after us over the last number of years.  In 2021, the Chiefs drafted Bolton (LB), Humphrey (C) and Smith (G).  All are at least red chip players and Humphrey is a blue chip player.  Their 2022 draft class looks strong as well.

 

Bottom line is that the Bills need to draft better in the early rounds.

Beane didn’t even draft Milano, he wasn’t even here 

 

he wasn’t here for Tre or Dawkins or Milano picks which helped change the future in 17 draft

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

It begs the question: what if Josh hadn't panned out, as the odds overwhelmingly suggested?

 

Where would we be these last years if Josh is a total bust?  

 

We'd probably be .500 at best and still searching for a good QB.

 

 

We would be on to a new coach and GM after another year of missing the playoffs. 
 

Allen has saved them both.

[Success]

I really wonder about our talent.  Is it that we don't draft well - or don't develop & utilize our players well?

 

Zach Moss actually ran pretty well after he went to Indy.  There are also guys like Teller & Hodgins.

 

And I can't help but think of how Cincy's line performed, with 3 starters out, and 1 playing hurt.  They schemed better, and got the most out of those players.

 

Sometimes, it seems like we're getting the minimum out of the talent we have.

 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

2nd team is a runner up bud, it means NOTHING. Zip. Just like MVP "finalist". Even on pro football reference he has no all pro badge at the top. There is only 1 all pro at each position for each of the 3 media publications. 

 

Literally provided you the official NFL Records from the NFL itself.

 

FYI FROM YOUR OWN WIKI YOU (OR SOMEONE) PREVIOUSLY POSTED:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro

 

"The first team consists of the top one or two players at each position; the second team consists of the runners-up at each position."

 

Some people just can't be helped.  Good day. 

 

Dude. You are in the embarrassing place of doubling down on stupid. Even by simple logic.

1/2 x 2 = 1. it's really that simple, and you can't seem to grasp it.

Second team All Pro is an honor equal to or greater than the 'Pro Bowl'. I will show you why.

 

Being named to the 'Pro Bowl' seems to be a thing for you.

Most folks realize that with open voting the 'Pro Bowl' has become a joke ruled by 14 year olds who play Madden.

The All-Pro teams are voted on by sports writers who cover all the teams.

Believe it or not, not every 14 yr old, and not every coach, or player is watching every NFL game.

The NFL writers are supposed to.

 

So that may not be strong enough logic for you.

14 year olds who think 'the Raiders rule' get the same vote as NFL journalists do for the 'Pro Bowl'

Maybe that is cool for you, but it is the action that leads to Josh Allen not being on the Pro Bowl team last year.

 

I digress. That is the weak part of the argument. Let's look at this logically.

 

The 1st team All-Pro is 11 guys on each side of the ball who are the best of their craft. That is it.

One team of 11-12 players on offense

One team of 11-12 players on defense, and a few ST players.

There may be an exception to add a slot WR or Nickel CB

@25 total players

This team is decided by people who watch and write about the whole league.

 

The Pro Bowl requires 2 teams to play each other.

There are two teams required to play in the Pro Bowl.

That almost seems like double the players are named to the Pro Bowl as the 1st team All Pro team!?!?

That means double of each position to get into the pro Bowl.

 

1st team All-Pro QB = 1 QB

1st team Pro-Bowl QB = 2 QB, both teams need a QB,

if a 1st team Pro Bowl QB is in the playoffs or is injured at the time a 3rd or 4th QB is named

as decided by 14 year olds (alternates)

1st team All Pro team doesn't care about the playoffs or injuries, there are no alternates

 

1st team All-Pro LT = 1 LT, you are the best.

1st team Pro Bowl LT = 2 LT

if the 1st team Pro Bowl LT is in the playoffs or is injured at the time a 3rd or 4th LT is named.

as decided by 14 year olds (alternate LT)

1st team All Pro team doesn't care about the playoffs or injuries, there are no alternates

 

1st team All Pro WR = 2 WR

1st team Pro Bowl = 4 WR

It's like it is double?!?

If you happen to be a WR in the playoffs.....

 

It's almost like the 1st team All Pro team is half the size of the Pro Bowl team, before alternates!

Who knew?!?! Such an epiphany!

It's almost like the second All-Pro team was like the second Pro-Bowl team starters, but was named something different?!?!

 

DUHHHH

 

All Pro > Pro Bowl by a mile

2nd team All pro >= Pro Bowl

 

DUHHH

Edited January 26, 2023 by RocCityRoller

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Dude. You are in the embarrassing place of doubling down on stupid. Even by simple logic.

1/2 x 2 = 1. it's really that simple, and you can't seem to grasp it.

Second team All Pro is an honor equal to or greater than the 'Pro Bowl'. I will show you why.

 

Being named to the 'Pro Bowl' seems to be a thing for you.

Most folks realize that with open voting the 'Pro Bowl' has become a joke ruled by 14 year olds who play Madden.

The All-Pro teams are voted on by sports writers who cover all the teams.

Believe it or not, not every 14 yr old, and not every coach, or player is watching every NFL game.

The NFL writers are supposed to.

 

So that may not be strong enough logic for you.

14 year olds who think 'the Raiders rule' get the same vote as NFL journalists do for the 'Pro Bowl'

Maybe that is cool for you, but it is the action that leads to Josh Allen not being on the Pro Bowl team last year.

 

I digress. That is the weak part of the argument. Let's look at this logically.

 

The 1st team All-Pro is 11 guys on each side of the ball who are the best of their craft. That is it.

One team of 11-12 players on offense

One team of 11-12 players on defense, and a few ST players.

There may be an exception to add a slot WR or Nickel CB

@25 total players

This team is decided by people who watch and write about the whole league.

 

The Pro Bowl requires 2 teams to play each other.

There are two teams required to play in the Pro Bowl.

That almost seems like double the players are named to the Pro Bowl as the 1st team All Pro team!?!?

That means double of each position to get into the pro Bowl.

 

1st team All-Pro QB = 1 QB

1st team Pro-Bowl QB = 2 QB, both teams need a QB,

if a 1st team Pro Bowl QB is in the playoffs or is injured at the time a 3rd or 4th QB is named

as decided by 14 year olds (alternates)

1st team All Pro team doesn't care about the playoffs or injuries, there are no alternates

 

1st team All-Pro LT = 1 LT, you are the best.

1st team Pro Bowl LT = 2 LT

if the 1st team Pro Bowl LT is in the playoffs or is injured at the time a 3rd or 4th LT is named.

as decided by 14 year olds (alternate LT)

1st team All Pro team doesn't care about the playoffs or injuries, there are no alternates

 

1st team WR = 2 WR

1st team Pro Bowl = 4 WR

It's like it is double?!?

If you happen to be a WR in the playoffs.....

 

It's almost like the 1st team All Pro team is half the size of the Pro Bowl team, before alternates!

Who knew?!?! Such an epiphany!

It's almost like the second All-Pro team was like the second Pro-Bowl team starters, but was named something different?!?!

 

DUHHHH

 

All Pro > Pro Bowl by a mile

2nd team All pro >= Pro Bowl

 

DUHHH

This debate of yours is going to kill us civilians with boredom.

[RocCityRoller]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This debate of yours is going to kill us civilians with boredom.

I can't help it.

 

This dude is arguing that 2nd team All Pro is not an honor.

 

Sorry Coach. I'll go run some wind sprints.....