Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said: Morse and Dawkins you keep. The rest can be fired into the sun Morse has a very serious concussion history and needs to be replaced and soon. Yes, keep Dawkins but at this point he might look better at guard, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Brown is Mike McGlinchey. He is an okay player for the Niners who will be a free agent who took a long time to get good. . I really don't see an upgrade to Brown on the FA list. Jawaan Taylor is very interesting guy in my world. Just 25 years old with some more upside to go. Kaleb McGary is probably by far the best guy on teh market. Same deal. long athletic guy who took awhile to put it together. Good summary. And that’s why O line projects are a problem. “Took a while to put it together” = “will be an expensive free agent by the time he becomes valuable.” I’m a rare Tremaine Edmunds defender here. But same thing with him: very young (remember the “he’s still 19!” Thing on draft day?), very talented but very raw when we drafted him. I thought he got better hear by year, but by the time he’s actually really good (my minority view), he’ll be packing his bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Yobogoya! said: Of note is that this regime has acquired only one lineman of any exceptional talent in five years… and summarily shipped him away to another team. Good grief, man… If they can't change their mindset, they need to go for us to be able to get better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Governor said: All of the resources go to McD’s silly defense. I don’t think Beane has any say. 5-6 years in and we still don’t have a single good lineman. That’s really hard to do. I agree with the bolded 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, NewEra said: They overrated Saffold. They thought they were getting a one year fix @ LG. They thought wrong. Brown was drafted to be our RT. He’s 6’8 and has back problems. They were hoping he’d be a solid RT. They were wrong. Bates looked to be an emerging starter. We retained him. He was below average. Morse and Dawkins are solid starters. Neither are great. 2 poor players- 1 below average player and 2 solid starters + a rookie OC that doesn’t really seem to have a plan = going home early. so now what? Get a legit LG and RT. Let brown be our swing tackle. Might have to replace Morse too. Beane has his work cut out for him. Drafting OL doesn’t seem to be something our FO does well and we don’t have much $ until we start mortgaging the future. Right, FA likely not the answer with Bills’ cap situation. Draft is reportedly poor for interior OL, but OT might be decent. Maybe can find a T that can move inside. I still have hope that if Brown is healthy enough to train in the offseason, he might improve. Missing all offseason and training camp due to back injury can’t have helped him this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Governor said: All of the resources go to McD’s silly defense. I don’t think Beane has any say. 5-6 years in and we still don’t have a single good lineman. That’s really hard to do. Maybe they’re just afraid to draft another after the Cody Ford fiasco. Remember when they shot a video showing how much they pretended to want Ford? Yeah, sure that was your target. Lol I guarantee you McDermott determines 100% of the defensive picks and probably some of the offense. Beane is just Sean's puppet. The embarrassment that is our OL and DL falls squarely on McD....he is the fools gold of NFL head coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: I respect your opinion very much but I have been hearing the same sad song for almost 30 years. Remember when Mouse McNally was going to make our OL great? Folks were saying that it was only bad because of the "scheme." Yeah well the line got worse with McNally. Levy and Jauron obviously valued the secondary above all else. Even Butler drafted Leodis McKelvin in round 1, passing on 2 great blockers who were desperately needed. McDermott? As I said in another thread, he is a bald Dick Jauron. McDermott wanted a corner just so bad he traded away the pick for Mahomes and drafted one. Until I see it, I refuse to believe that the Bills will ever place adequate resources into blocking. Our blockers were beaten half to death yesterday. Did you see the Eagles OL trample the Giants? It works. Here were our most recent 1st Round offensive line draft picks: 1) Eric Wood - 2009 (With a pick we received for trading away HOF LT Jason Peters, who we lucked into) 2) Mike Williams - 2004 3) Ruben Brown 1995 Excellent post by the OP. Holy ***** Bill, thanks for popping this together. Just sad when you see it broken down this way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ga boy Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Billz4ever said: It's borderline criminal what this coaching staff apparently thinks Josh should be able to work with. If it weren't for Josh's mobility, this year's Bills probably set a new record for sacks taken in a season. Totally agree. For most of our wins, the offense masked the D shortcomings. When offense struggled (like yesterday) the team looked average, and the D gets exposed. Really same story for 3 years. I agree with many that offense changes are priority #1. Should see at least 4 new starters on offense. Tweak the D and we can roll. Maybe use Maine or Tre to get a premier wr. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. FREE AGENTS Ben Powers - G - Baltimore Isaac Seumalo - G - Philly Dalton Risner - G - Denver Mike McGlinchey - T - SF Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona We didn't invest in our OL for 5+ years because McD is a dumbass. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, FrenchConnection said: A bunch of years ago, Cowherd quoted an anonymous NFL scout saying the OL is the hardest position group to project to the NFL from college. This was due to the proliferation of single read spread offenses in college. No one is asked to hold a block while a QB runs through his progressions. The OTs that are easy to project go in the top of the first round while the others are all crapshoots. Won't get one if you don't draft or sign one. That is why we are having this discussion now. This a failure on the GM and coach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGFOOTspaceman Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Whoever is making the decisions for the O line and D line.....Welp, all I can say is that they are a poor judge of talent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Gunsgoodtime said: Won't get one if you don't draft or sign one. That is why we are having this discussion now. This a failure on the GM and coach Exactly! Seeing posts like this and so many others in this thread makes me feel better about this horrific loss. Seriously, this loss bothered me more than almost any game in the last 30 or so years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I mean that’s how the Chiefs did it. The Chiefs went all in on pass protection for Mahomes and they did a youth movement in their defense seems to have worked out pretty well for them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherMan Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. FREE AGENTS Ben Powers - G - Baltimore Isaac Seumalo - G - Philly Dalton Risner - G - Denver Mike McGlinchey - T - SF Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona Agree on everything but I don’t think we can win with this coaching staff. Doesn’t matter what our roster looks like, if Dorsey and Leslie are our coordinators, we are not going to the SB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, John from Riverside said: I mean that’s how the Chiefs did it. The Chiefs went all in on pass protection for Mahomes and they did a youth movement in their defense seems to have worked out pretty well for them. The year before the Colts drafted Peyton Manning they drafted LT Tarik Glenn in round 1 and RT Adam Meadows in round 2. These were 2 excellent OTs. It works. 2 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said: Agree on everything but I don’t think we can win with this coaching staff. Doesn’t matter what our roster looks like, if Dorsey and Leslie are our coordinators, we are not going to the SB. Agreed and I'm not at all thrilled with McDermott. Jmo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdmoreRyno Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said: You can also add Wr to that list. A 5th rounder dont really move the needle in that regard. Either they change their mentality right now, or they die with their failures at defense and wasted draft capital So true. Yea... our NFL draft history for WR's... 2022 Khalil Shakir - 5th round - Definitely can be a solid slot guy in the future, showed promise at the end of the season. 2021 Marquez Stevenson - 6th round - Cleveland practice squad (never understood this pick, he had 300 yards his senior season at Houston) 2020 Gabe Davis - 4th round - CAN be a WR1a 2019 NONE 2018 Ray-Ray McCloud - 6th round - We waived him in 2020, now playing in the NFC Championship game Austin Proehl - 7th round - Huh? 2017 Zay Jones - 2md round - Traded him for a 5th round pick. He had 546 yards last year for Vegas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said: Exactly! Seeing posts like this and so many others in this thread makes me feel better about this horrific loss. Seriously, this loss bothered me more than almost any game in the last 30 or so years. I kind of felt it coming, so it was nowhere near as bad as last year for me. The worst part of this year is that I feel like our current administration won't change their defense mentality and continue to use valued resources on defense yet again, resulting in the same thing as long as they are here. Btw, they are not very good at using resources on Defense either. Almost every one of their picks have not played up to their draft position. We probably have more draft capital and Fa money on the Dline than any other team since McDermott got here, and the DL is trash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, ArdmoreRyno said: So true. Yea... our NFL draft history for WR's... 2022 Khalil Shakir - 5th round - Definitely can be a solid slot guy in the future, showed promise at the end of the season. 2021 Marquez Stevenson - 6th round - Cleveland practice squad (never understood this pick, he had 300 yards his senior season at Houston) 2020 Gabe Davis - 4th round - CAN be a WR1a 2019 NONE 2018 Ray-Ray McCloud - 6th round - We waived him in 2020, now playing in the NFC Championship game Austin Proehl - 7th round - Huh? 2017 Zay Jones - 2md round - Traded him for a 5th round pick. He had 546 yards last year for Vegas Agreed and I even think that you overrated Davis. Jmo. 1 minute ago, Gunsgoodtime said: Btw, they are not very good at using resources on Defense either. Almost every one of their picks have not played up to their draft position. We probably have more draft capital and Fa money on the Dline than any other team since McDermott got here, and the DL is trash Yes, and lots of dead cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGFOOTspaceman Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Exactly! Seeing posts like this and so many others in this thread makes me feel better about this horrific loss. Seriously, this loss bothered me more than almost any game in the last 30 or so years. Really? I can think of like 10 other games the Bills have lost that are worse than this one. I'm shocked that people are shocked that the Bengals whopped the Bills the way they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, BillyBilliams said: Can you believe Bobby Hart played 97 snaps as an eligable receiver? Are you ***** KIDDING ME? It’s because Doyle was hurt and OJ Howard was a wasted signing. And also because Tommy Sweeney can’t cut it, Quinton Morris isn’t best suited for that type of role, and they decided to bury Reggie Gilliam this year. So, yeah, that whole “go big” thing took an eligible receiver effectively out of play and still didn’t really serve to provide good protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: So true. Yea... our NFL draft history for WR's... 2022 Khalil Shakir - 5th round - Definitely can be a solid slot guy in the future, showed promise at the end of the season. 2021 Marquez Stevenson - 6th round - Cleveland practice squad (never understood this pick, he had 300 yards his senior season at Houston) 2020 Gabe Davis - 4th round - CAN be a WR1a 2019 NONE 2018 Ray-Ray McCloud - 6th round - We waived him in 2020, now playing in the NFC Championship game Austin Proehl - 7th round - Huh? 2017 Zay Jones - 2md round - Traded him for a 5th round pick. He had 546 yards last year for Vegas Thanks for this. Just confirms my belief this administration does not value offense. Its really upsetting how they have handled the offense. Having Josh Allen as your qb makes it much worse too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I mean that’s how the Chiefs did it. The Chiefs went all in on pass protection for Mahomes and they did a youth movement in their defense seems to have worked out pretty well for them. I made a similar suggestion, though not as neatly put as you did, in a different thread. Double down on helping Josh in the draft, and let the chips fall where they may on the other side of the ball. Maybe you have another point, too: paying STers decent money may now be a thing of the past. Guys like Matakevich might not be around too much longer. The punter probably will be a minimum wage player next year. Beyond that, time for the kids to step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said: Really? I can think of like 10 other games the Bills have lost that are worse than this one. I'm shocked that people are shocked that the Bengals whopped the Bills the way they did. We have the best and most talented QB in the history of the franchise. Our defense (including our supposedly star studded secondary) got dog walked by an inferior team with 3 subs on the OL, and our offense (especially the perpetually inept OL) couldn't do jack siht.....this at home. Yes, this game pissed me off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdmoreRyno Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said: Thanks for this. Just confirms my belief this administration does not value offense. Its really upsetting how they have handled the offense. Having Josh Allen as your qb makes it much worse too Aside from Josh, we have not selected ANY offensive player in the 1st round since Sammy in 2014. Since 2015 in the first two rounds? OFFENSIVE PLAYERS: 4 (Josh Allen, Zay Jones, Cody Ford, James Cook) DEFENSIVE PLAYERS: 11 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Aside from Josh, we have not selected ANY offensive player in the 1st round since Sammy in 2014. Since 2015 in the first two rounds? OFFENSIVE PLAYERS: 4 (Josh Allen, Zay Jones, Cody Ford, James Cook) DEFENSIVE PLAYERS: 11 And the DL is still basically a bunch of nobody's. Only players that Bills fans recognize. They have not only failed at using resources on the Offense, they have failed using the picks that they used on Defense. I never really considered firing Beane or McDermott until now. It seems to be all coming out for fans to see, and its infuriating to see honestly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, BillyBilliams said: Can you believe Bobby Hart played 97 snaps as an eligable receiver? Are you ***** KIDDING ME? The Bills were actually quite good running the ball when they brought Bobby Hart in as a blocking TE. We should have gone to that yesterday and shoved the ball down their throat. It worked on the first series in Cinci, because they stay in nickel. If we had done that enough, they would have pulled Hendrickson out and maybe added a LB. And that's when you go to play action. But back to the thread. Dawkins and Morse are average starters. Bates is a slightly below average starter. And Saffold and Brown grade out as backups. Draft two G's, one that has C experience and an OT to compete with Brown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieEm Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Billz4ever said: It's borderline criminal what this coaching staff apparently thinks Josh should be able to work with. If it weren't for Josh's mobility, this year's Bills probably set a new record for sacks taken in a season. It is like buying a 250 million dollar painting and have it hanging at your weekend cabin which you leave unlocked for hikers to use the bathroom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 55 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: Right, FA likely not the answer with Bills’ cap situation. Draft is reportedly poor for interior OL, but OT might be decent. Maybe can find a T that can move inside. I still have hope that if Brown is healthy enough to train in the offseason, he might improve. Missing all offseason and training camp due to back injury can’t have helped him this year. I have hope too….. but that doesn’t mean we can go into next season with Brown as our starting RT. That would be a major mistake imo. As was starting him yesterday. I think Quessenberry was better than Brown this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 31 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Aside from Josh, we have not selected ANY offensive player in the 1st round since Sammy in 2014. Since 2015 in the first two rounds? OFFENSIVE PLAYERS: 4 (Josh Allen, Zay Jones, Cody Ford, James Cook) DEFENSIVE PLAYERS: 11 Yikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 3 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. FREE AGENTS Ben Powers - G - Baltimore Isaac Seumalo - G - Philly Dalton Risner - G - Denver Mike McGlinchey - T - SF Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona Hey you have 2 on this list that I absolutely want the Bills to buy. Risner and Taylor. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. FREE AGENTS Ben Powers - G - Baltimore Isaac Seumalo - G - Philly Dalton Risner - G - Denver Mike McGlinchey - T - SF Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona Nice post OP, I appreciate the time you spent putting it together. Beane did bring in some free agents to try to shore up the line. During Josh's second year in 2019 Beane signed Morse, Spain, Feliciano, Nseke, and Spencer Long. They did improve the O-line play compared to Josh's rookie season. They brought in Daryl Williams in 2020 and he played well for one season. Bobby Hart headlined last year's 2021 O-Line free agents. This year was Saffold, Quessenberry, and Van Roten. Of all these free agents the only one who has been consistently solid is Morris. Daryll Williams had one good year and then fell off precipitously. There is no question that the O-Line play as a whole has regressed this year. I think everyone realizes that the O-Line needs an overhaul including Beane. I suspect he will make some investments there this off season. I think Beane is a great GM. I think he hoped to get more out of the O-Line than he got this year. I think he knows he is going to have to shore up the O-Line to protect Josh and win a championship. The Cincy game sucked but we still have the foundation to be a Super Bowl team. I trust Beane will get some fresh blood on the O-Line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I would easily sign a vet RT to compete with Brown then draft Oline 3 out of the first 4 picks in the draft. That should along with a depth signing or two massively help out the Oline and set it up for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: Nice post OP, I appreciate the time you spent putting it together. Beane did bring in some free agents to try to shore up the line. During Josh's second year in 2019 Beane signed Morse, Spain, Feliciano, Nseke, and Spencer Long. They did improve the O-line play compared to Josh's rookie season. They brought in Daryl Williams in 2020 and he played well for one season. Bobby Hart headlined last year's 2021 O-Line free agents. This year was Saffold, Quessenberry, and Van Roten. Of all these free agents the only one who has been consistently solid is Morris. Daryll Williams had one good year and then fell off precipitously. There is no question that the O-Line play as a whole has regressed this year. I think everyone realizes that the O-Line needs an overhaul including Beane. I suspect he will make some investments there this off season. I think Beane is a great GM. I think he hoped to get more out of the O-Line than he got this year. I think he knows he is going to have to shore up the O-Line to protect Josh and win a championship. The Cincy game sucked but we still have the foundation to be a Super Bowl team. I trust Beane will get some fresh blood on the O-Line. Williams had one pretty good season, got paid, and then mailed it in with first class postage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 IMO, the game is won or lost in the trenches. Clearly, both OL and DL are not good enough. I would prioritize the OL as the top problem to address. There are several other areas of need, but you have to protect your franchise player first. I think the jury is still out on James Cook, but I have seen enough of Singletary. He has no burst or explosiveness, no speed, no power, and mediocre evasiveness. I think the jury is still out on Khalil Shakir, but after Diggs the WR corp is not good enough. Gabe Davis was a huge disappointment. The others are journeymen. Greg Rousseau shows promise, but Epenesa, Basham, and the others are not good enough. The linebackers as a group are not playmakers. Just check out the athleticism and explosiveness of the 49er's linebackers as an example. No comparison. No point in going on and on, but Beane and McD have built a team incapable of winning the Super Bowl at this point. The four teams left in the playoffs are all superior to the Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrivefourfive Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 How does one even become a 74th rated guard? There’s only two guards on the line. So these guys are 3rd string guards and they are STARTING for the Bills??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 hours ago, FrenchConnection said: A bunch of years ago, Cowherd quoted an anonymous NFL scout saying the OL is the hardest position group to project to the NFL from college. This was due to the proliferation of single read spread offenses in college. No one is asked to hold a block while a QB runs through his progressions. The OTs that are easy to project go in the top of the first round while the others are all crapshoots. all the more reason to hit the well more than 3xs in 5 freaking years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 hours ago, BillyBilliams said: Can you believe Bobby Hart played 97 snaps as an eligable receiver? Are you ***** KIDDING ME? It's because we don't have a backup TE worth a damn on this roster. Morris at best is a number 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) I’m very happy that the board’s eyes have finally been opened in regards to this regime. Let’s call it what it is. It’s a cult. I think you give McD one more year but as fans we have to make it extreme painful for him. All of his power should be stripped. I’ll allow clapping but that’s it. Edited January 24, 2023 by Governor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Honestly sick of watching our quarter billion dollar QB run for his life on every play. When Josh has time to throw the ball, he might be one of the best QB's in league history... but we've invested so much into building a defense to stop Kansas City, which has been great during the regular season, we've done nothing to protect JA. I absolutely love Dion, but he's really-really bad. I just watched the edited down replay from the NFL today and he held or was smoked on EVERY DOWN. It's been an issue all for him. Somehow he's graded 24th in regards to tackles by PFF. Let's review our draft picks for our OL the past few years... 2022 Luke Tenuta - 6th round - released in the pre-season 2021 Spencer Brown - 3rd round - allowed 36 QB pressures in 2021. Allowed 42 pressures in 2022. He's currently ranked 76th in the NFL at the tackle position. There are teams with 4 tackles ranked higher than Spencer. Tommy Doyle - 5th round - Has never started in 2 years. Tore his ACL this year against Miami. His pass blocking grade is worse than Spencer's Jack Anderson - 7th ground - Practice squad and now he's on the Giants roster. Was on the 2 deep for a while and graded out better than Brown and Doyle pass blocking in '22. 2020 NONE DRAFTED 2019 Cody Ford - 2nd round - Now with the Cardinals. One of the worst rated guards in the NFL ever since he was drafted by Buffalo. 2018 Wyatt Teller - 5th round - Traded to Cleveland in 2020 for 2 picks (ended up being Fromm and Hodgins). Teller is now one of the best guards in the NFL (2x All-Pro). He's rated 17th overall in the NFL. Side note: Cleveland has two of the best guards in the league with Teller and Bitonio. Let's review the 2 deep.... Dion Dawkins - 24th rated tackle Rodger Saffold - 74th rated guard Mitch Morris - 24th rated center Ryan Bates - 42nd rated guard Spencer Brown - 76th ranked guard David Quessenberry - 68th ranked tackle Bobby Hart - NR (guard) - Only played 128 snaps this year Greg Van Roten - 52nd ranked guard Ike Boettger - NR (guard) - Only played 6 snaps this year due to injury WHY DON'T WE INVEST IN OUR OFFENSIVE LINE?!?!?! We have 2 guys on the team we've drafted since 2018 on the line. TWO. I won't even begin to go over who has been drafted for other teams that are solid starters now, after some of our busts draft picks. FREE AGENTS Ben Powers - G - Baltimore Isaac Seumalo - G - Philly Dalton Risner - G - Denver Mike McGlinchey - T - SF Orlando Brown Jr. - T - KC Kaleb McGary - T - Atlanta Jawaan Taylor - T - Jax Kelvin Beachum - T - Arizona Dion isn't bad. He's very good. We don't need to replace him or even think about it. Having said that, he had a bad game. No question. Morse is really good too. But he has to be thinking about when to hang it up. We need to be addressing this. Bates was acceptable. Not better than that. He was better at the end of last year. What happened? Replacing him is not an immediate need, but upgrading there has to be under consideration, now and for the future. RT just was not good enough. But why? Last year he was better than this year and was trending up. He's not been good most of this year. Is that an injury? Has he reached his ceiling? Does he need a different style of coaching? Dunno. But this coaching staff has to be looking very hard at this situation, very hard. Saffold just wasn't good enough. Don't know why, but it was pretty clear that even though he had a few good performances that we need some kind of upgrade. I'd like to see them address the line pretty early in the draft, myself. It's not clear if Beane thinks this is a good idea. I do. God, this was depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 hours ago, dorquemada said: I realize you can't replace the entire OL in one offseason. Let's say we can keep 2 guys, who are they? Is Dorkins worth keeping? yes, Dawkins and Morse. This might be controversial, but I think Dawkins played better last season next to Bates, so one might consider going Dawkins-Bates-Morse and looking for help at RG/RT I was disappointed in Aaron Kromer. I thought Beach Chairs helped us put together a pretty decent OL when he was here before. 7 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said: Who was Morse's backup at C. Van Rotten? Bates? I feel like we've had decent C play when Morse has gone down. Plus, with his concussion history, guy should retire and we can use his cap elsewhere. Bates was the #2, but several times when Morse went down, Bates was already out of the game (or went down) and Van Roten replaced him. I was NOT a fan of Van Roten at C, but I'm not sure how life looks with the #3 guy at C across the league - probably not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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