Great and pretty brutal assessment of Bills’ talent by Chris Simms

[Calidiehard]

Look at the offensive disparity between Bills and Bengals. 

Bengals have a 1st round receiver and Tight End, 2 2nd round receivers, 2nd round RB. 

Bills have 0 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round receivers, 2 4th rounders, 2 5th rounders. A 3rd round TE and 2nd round RB. 

The team needs to invest more into the offense and stop spending so many 1st and 2nd round picks on defenses that are good against weak teams and fold against top talent.

[H2o]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

He goes to town here, and he ain’t wrong: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-tries-do-too-much-vs-cincinnati-bengals?ls=pftvod

This is absolutely legit. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, is on Josh. Throw in a ligament tear in an elbow, that he played through without complaining, and here you have it.  

[Toyo321]

The problem with Buffalo, is for the longest time they had no competent offensive management or good draft personnel or expertise to get better.  They still don't.

 

1) Bad coaches before 2017   <=  McD is not the coach to take us to a SB,  his past and recent results are not doing anything to exempt him from being replaced at this point.  He is officially in the hot seat now for 2023-2024.  He is a defensive guy and always will be.  It's his D scheme that got lit up yesterday, and Frazier is just his puppet.  We need a offensive coach with real defensive coordinator.

 

2) What talent have the Bills drafted that are top 100 IMPACT offensive players except for Allen,  since 2014 that are still with this team.  No one.  Whaley brought in some impact players but they are all gone now so I will exclude them.  Beane changed everything and went soft and speedy, instead of tough and in your face and fast.  No one they have drafted can be called a impact player accept for Allen.

 

Personally Milano should have never gotten a contract extension.  Edmunds is gone after this year because of the cap problems caused with Von and Josh's contracts. 

Tre White had two good years and he is a fraction of what he once was since his ACL injury.  He is no longer a impact player like he once was.  He is now a liability back there holding on almost every single play.

 

Our offensive line is worse that swiss cheese.  The draft mentality of taking questionable offensive line talent in the draft for the last ten years is coming back to haunt this team, our O-line is the walking dead of the top 5 AFC teams.   We have no true #2 starting receiver.  Our running backs are a result of a bad O-Line so they will get a pass but Motor needs to go.  To inconsistent and not worth any money to keep him.  Cook will have to be his replacement.  We can draft another RB#2.

 

Dawkins, Brown and Doyle are not Elite by any means.  Ford thank god was traded.

 

The defensive line is another epic fail.  Not one game changer drafted that are even in the top NFL 150 players.

 

Oliver, Rousseau, Basham, Epenesa, Lawson are also not even close to elite talent.  It showed yesterday too.  They could not even get a whiff of Burrow yesterday.

 

Against good Offensive lines our front D-Line is absolute garbage.

 

Von was 1 guy, and just 1 guy is not going to get us to a SB,  OBD better be listening to all the feedback from all the NFL experts today.  They are right.

 

Case in point JA17 is one guy and we are not even close to competing with Cinci or KC at this point with this roster. 

 

Josh had also taken a huge step backwards this year and it can be seen on the field too.  He is nervous with his throws,  they are low,  behind, off target,   or over thrown.  And last but not least, Interceptions.   He does makes some great throws,  but 50% of the time his throws are not ideal or in the right place for a receiver to catch it and get YAC yards.

 

Burrow did not have those issues yesterday.  Say what you want, Josh is not better than Burrow or Mahomes.

 

One player does not make this team an elite SB level team.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Toyo321

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

The problem with Buffalo, is for the longest time they had no competent offensive management or good draft personnel or expertise to get better.  They still don't.

 

1) Bad coaches before 2017   <=  McD is not the coach to take us to a SB,  his past and recent results are not doing anything to exempt him from being replaced at this point.  He is officially in the hot seat now for 2023-2024.  He is a defensive guy and always will be.  It's his D scheme that got lit up yesterday, and Frazier is just his puppet.  We need a offensive coach with real defensive coordinator.

 

2) What talent have the Bills drafted that are top 100 IMPACT offensive players except for Allen,  since 2014 that are still with this team.  No one.  Whaley brought in some impact players but they are all gone now so I will exclude them.  Beane changed everything and went soft and speedy, instead of tough and in your face and fast.  No one they have drafted can be called a impact player accept for Allen.

 

Personally Milano should have never gotten a contract extension.  Edmunds is gone after this year because of the cap problems caused with Von and Josh's contracts. 

Tre White had two good years and he is a fraction of what he once was since his ACL injury.  He is no longer a impact player like he once was.  He is now a liability back there holding on almost every single play.

 

Our offensive line is worse that swiss cheese.  The draft mentality of taking questionable offensive line talent in the draft for the last ten years is coming back to haunt this team, our O-line is the walking dead of the AFC elite.   We have no true #2 starting receiver.  Our running backs are a result of a bad O-Line so they will get a pass but Motor needs to go.  To inconsistent and not worth any money to keep him.  Cook will have to be his replacement.  We can draft another RB#2.

 

Dawkins, Brown and Doyle are not Elite by any means.  Ford thank god was traded.

 

The defensive line is another epic fail.  Not one game changer drafted that are even in the top NFL 150 players.

 

Oliver, Rousseau, Basham, Epenesa, Lawson are also not even close to elite talent.  It showed yesterday too.  They could not even get a whiff of Burrow yesterday.

 

Against good Offensive lines our front D-Line is absolute garbage.

 

Von was 1 guy, and just 1 guy is not going to get us to a SB,  OBD better be listening to all the feedback from all the NFL experts today.  They are right.

 

Case in point JA17 is one guy and we are not even close to competing with Cinci or KC at this point with this roster. 

 

Josh had also taken an huge step backwards this year and its can be seen on the field.  He is nervous with his throws,  they are low,  behind, off target,   or over thrown.  He makes some great throws but 50% of the time his throws are not ideal or in the right place for a receiver to catch it and get YAC yards.

 

Burrow did not have those issues yesterday.  Say what you want, Josh is not better than Burrow or Mahomes.

 

One player does not make this team an elite SB level team.

 

 

Actually he did and both times the Bills were called for pass interference.  

 

Yesterday was a garbage game exacerbated by putrid coaching. 

 

There wasn't a single play call where you could say "Boy the coach made a great call there".

 

The team came out flat and when they needed a play or to make the right call they failed miserably.

 

Cincy punted 1X all game (they would have gone for it on 4th & 1 the other time). 

[bouds]

Sims is a fool in this video because he flat out pretends this team doesn't have any talent, the way he dismisses our safeties is hilarious.  I mean our two guys are near the top when healthy.  He's got a point that we need to add better OL, but he exaggerates things, gives perfect cover for his boy as well.  Lots of blame to go around, and I've certainly critiqued the drafting, but Sims just goes overboard.  Team wins 13 games with no talent, all on Josh....lol.

[Sestak4ever]

Sometimes it seems difficult to assess draft picks when coaching staffs don’t utilize them properly and don’t play to their strengths. All off season the talk was how good Cook was at catching passes and getting him isolated with a linebacker in coverage. I don’t think we ever used him in that capacity at all. Just seems like we are wasting his talents, which would also be a huge boost to Josh and work well against all the blitzes we saw. Hardly used Shakir while McKenzie was underperforming all season. These are just a couple examples, but makes me scratch my head.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

We do not have enough elite talent. I can't remember who asked me two weeks ago do I still subscribe to my "you need 4 or 5 elite guys to win a Superbowl" theory and I said then I did and I still do. 

 

We have two. We planned for 4. Next season we may have 3.

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, bouds said:

Sims is a fool in this video because he flat out pretends this team doesn't have any talent, the way he dismisses our safeties is hilarious.  I mean our two guys are near the top when healthy.  He's got a point that we need to add better OL, but he exaggerates things, gives perfect cover for his boy as well.  Lots of blame to go around, and I've certainly critiqued the drafting, but Sims just goes overboard.  Team wins 13 games with no talent, all on Josh....lol.

Hyde missed nearly the entire season and Poyer was a shell of himself by the end. 

[Marcus Aurelius]

5 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

I don't want to hear from ANY of them today... Chris Simms, Nick Wright, Bart Scott.... NONE OF THEM. I don't care how right they are... I'll get my assessments from somewhere other than their ASSessments.

I know where you are coming from.

It hurts too much  ... 

[97bills]

7 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

And our bad schemes helped us lose, 

All success Dorsey has had are directly the result of Josh winging it to make something happen, Dorsey is imo over rated, and yes, I was one on that wagon, I was wrong, he is two years or more away from possibly knowing his job. 

I think your right…. Any OC can get the backs involved in the passing game.  And it’s way more then that… we all watched the games. 

[Nextmanup]

I couldn't get the video to play; but it's at Youtube as well here:

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I feel like I just said "blahblah ginger blahblah" and you're missing the point I'm trying to make

 

Back to the Chris Simms thing:

Von Miller is an elite playmaker who can make game changing plays.  The Bills prioritized him because he's a player who can get sacks.  We lost him in November.

Oliver was drafted in 1st round to be an elite player.  He is, sometimes - and not others.  He was obviously playing hurt at the end of the season.  The big question the Bills need to answer is how often does that happen.

 

IMHO the Bills need to go after top talent on OL, not DL

No offense, but this dline got gashed by teams, even when Daquon played. 

 

Is he better than Settle, absolutely.  We are in desperate need of game-changers on thr front 4.  We have Von, but he's getting up there in age and coming off a torn acl.

 

Listen to Coach's end of season presser, and it's pretty clear they weren't pleased with the dline play in total (once Von went out).  

 

Oline will be priority #1, but dline is a close 2nd.  Ed is an above average player, not a difference maker.  Groot is the same.  Daquon is slightly above average.  It's too bad we've practically wasted premium picks on Boogie, AJ, and Cody Ford over the past few drafts.  

 

Need top tier talent upfront, that can be disruptive (not just occupy blocks).

 

Football is a simple game: top tier Qb play, strong oline, and a disruptive front 4 is almost a sure recipe for a deep playoff run.  New England, Steelers, and others have perfected this in years past.  We need to check those 2nd & 3rd boxes, before this team takes the next leap in the playoffs.

[Nextmanup]

8 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

He goes to town here, and he ain’t wrong: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-tries-do-too-much-vs-cincinnati-bengals?ls=pftvod

Just watched it; what I found most interesting is Florio basically saying that if this had not been such a crazy, emotionally trying year for the team, McDermott might well be gone after that performance yesterday.

 

You suggest things like that HERE and a lot of Bills fans talk of you being INSANE...

 

Nice to see a big name in the mainstream media getting this out there.  

 

They both agreed that lots of folks will be on the hot seat next year...

 

And I am wondering if we won't get a new coordinator out of this.

 

We have fallen way behind in the arms race regarding offensive playmaking stars in the AFC.

 

This team needs a fairly substantial remake this offseason. 

And it's a BAD year for free agency; not a lot of stuff out there.

 

 

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

No offense, but this dline got gashed by teams, even when Daquon played.

 

So tell me: which games, and who on the DL was playing?  Because I do think Daquon is a key player, but he isn't "the dline" either.

 

16 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Just watched it; what I found most interesting is Florio basically saying that if this had not been such a crazy, emotionally trying year for the team, McDermott might well be gone after that performance yesterday.

 

Please keep in mind that Florio is in the business of generating clicks, and says all kinds of things, many of which do not prove out over time.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Beck Water

[Nextmanup]

8 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Sounds like a Allen fan and not far off.  Regardless this team is/was on the cusp, however were completely outcoached and embarrassed yesterday.  Coaches got off easy in this video.  

Watch the video from Colin Cowherd.

 

He blasted the staff and McDermott for a good 3 minutes...

 

He points out several key flaws to the team and clearly states that is ALL on the head coach.

 

He's not wrong either.

 

 

[The Jokeman]

8 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Jones is good, but he is a complementary piece and not a difference maker. He is not Chris Jones or anything close, in other words.

Da'quan is not Chris but was our best Lineman after we loss Miller. 

[Nextmanup]

7 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Great video that succinctly defines the problem: lack of star players/difference-makers on both sides of the ball.

Of note: Florio suggests championship teams have a strong advantage with an offensive-minded head coach; Simms (who I think is smarter) says he hopes they don't fire McDermott. I'm leaning towards Florio's take on this given where the NFL is right now (and going to stay).

I think the Simms comment was just a generic "I'm not trying to make enemies in this profession" kind of thing.

 

Like he doesn't want to be known as the talking head calling for other's heads.

 

It's probably a smart approach.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, bouds said:

Sims is a fool in this video because he flat out pretends this team doesn't have any talent, the way he dismisses our safeties is hilarious.  I mean our two guys are near the top when healthy.  He's got a point that we need to add better OL, but he exaggerates things, gives perfect cover for his boy as well.  Lots of blame to go around, and I've certainly critiqued the drafting, but Sims just goes overboard.  Team wins 13 games with no talent, all on Josh....lol.

They aren't talking about "talent," they are talking about elite talent that makes you a potential SB champion.

 

Bills fans aren't used to competing at this level, but it's different at the top.

 

Just showing up in the playoffs is not good enough if you want to win it all.

 

 

[97bills]

5 hours ago, Sestak4ever said:

Sometimes it seems difficult to assess draft picks when coaching staffs don’t utilize them properly and don’t play to their strengths. All off season the talk was how good Cook was at catching passes and getting him isolated with a linebacker in coverage. I don’t think we ever used him in that capacity at all. Just seems like we are wasting his talents, which would also be a huge boost to Josh and work well against all the blitzes we saw. Hardly used Shakir while McKenzie was underperforming all season. These are just a couple examples, but makes me scratch my head.

This is what I was thinking all season long… we might really have some great players but this coaching staff can’t do nothing with them. And how shakir wasn’t on the field was mind boggling, our slot WR gave us nothing!!! It’s coaching…. I hate to say it , 

[Fan in Chicago]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Different analyst but same basic points. I can't disagree with anything he says here.

 

 

Cannot disagree with a word he said. 

To me, reading all his tweets was strangely cathartic in a way nothing has been since yesterday. 

38 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Please keep in mind that Florio is in the business of generating clicks, and says all kinds of things, many of which do not prove out over time.

In that series of tweets, it is tough to disagree with anything he said. He also sounded genuinely interested in the Bill's fixing things before next season. 

[MasterStrategist]

54 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

So tell me: which games, and who on the DL was playing?  Because I do think Daquon is a key player, but he isn't "the dline" either.

 

 

Please keep in mind that Florio is in the business of generating clicks, and says all kinds of things, many of which do not prove out over time.

"Gashed" is probably not the best term.  Maybe inconsistent and just overall meh.

 

Jones has his role, understandably.  The main issue I have isn't Daquon, but the overall lack of disruption/physicality this dline brings to the table.  

 

We did however get gashed in the run game against Packers, Jets (game 1), Vikings, Dolphins (game 2), and Pats (game 2) to an extent.

 

Daquon is just a complimentary piece, as you mention. 

 

This might be hitting on a different topic than what you're discussing, but my point is we've invested a lot into this dline for a very average return.  

 

We lack identity on both sides of the ball.  We were just too inconsistent throughout the season.

 

Unless our offense is totally dominant, our dline needs to be more of a problem for offenses to account for...as opposed to lacking.  Same issue the past 2 seasons.

[GunnerBill]

The Florio points on Elam, never throwing to running backs and the passing game are all right. 

 

The Elam point I am surprised they haven't used him more - the two offensive points a lot of us made here before the season when Sal C and others were telling us not to worry about our lack of otuside receivers and to see Shakir and Cook as "pass catchers" who would play a part in this wonderfully diverse offense

 

[Best Williams Available]

Apologize if this was posted before: https://twitter.com/michaelfflorio/status/1617562321391620098?s=46&t=IlCHj31sbdfmj2MzT7PhGw

 

 

in the video the idea I like best is what Florio said about getting an offensive HC. The benefit of him, the OC, the QB coach and QB being incubators for creativity. Right now we have Dorsey and Josh, 2 inexperienced gunslingers making this choices. They could use some balanced input. McDermott can’t provide that.

[The Frankish Reich]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

The Bengals, Eagles and 49ers, all 3 of these teams have QB's on rookie contracts, when Burrow, Hurts and either Purdy or Lance reup the contract they'll also be making big decisions.

This is huge. I remember when Russell Wilson broke out in Seattle and everyone said -- correctly -- that their huge advantage was not just having a really good QB; it was having a really good young QB on a cheapo 3rd round contract. Just another way in which competitive balance is always the equilibrium in the NFL

Edited January 24, 2023 by The Frankish Reich

[Best Williams Available]

9 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So an interesting point that Florio made about having an offensive head coach, was the "brain trust" aspect of having (his example) Doug Pederson, Frank Reich, and John DeFilippo on the Superbowl Eagles to have all the offensive creativity of all those offensive minds.

 

The thing is, the Bills tried to create something like that.  It wasn't just Dorsey.  They had Joe Brady, passing game coordinator for Championship LSU team and former OC for the Panthers; they had Mike Shula, former OC for the Panthers when they were winning, two division round appearances and a superbowl appearance.  They had Aaron Kromer for OL and run game.  They had a lot of experience and (presumably) creativity on the offensive coaching staff.  (and then they had John Butler given the title of "Passing Game Coordinator").

 

So then the question becomes, is it the RIGHT offensive creativity?  Shula ultimately lost a Superbowl, and crafted an offense that arguably burnt Cam Newton out.  I thought it suffered from the same problem as the Bills offense currently is - neglecting talent on the offensive side of the ball.  Brady was not "all that" in Carolina as OC, though I thought he was kind of a fall guy.

 

Point being, it's not enough to have a number of experienced offensive minds in the room crafting the offense.  They have to be the RIGHT offensive minds.

This is why an offensive HC can better wrangle a motley crew like this to get it to function better. McD has no idea how to initiate that. But you’re right, you can’t put 3 geniuses in a room and expect them to invent something remarkable. You need a project manager to wrangle them so their ideas flow toward a common and achievable goal. 

[CoudyBills]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

I agree somewhat to what Simms is saying but take the 3 teams Simms is mentioning here.... The Bengals, Eagles and 49ers, all 3 of these teams have QB's on rookie contracts, when Burrow, Hurts and either Purdy or Lance reup the contract they'll also be making big decisions. We should have more talent around Josh and on defense but that's what happens when you don't draft well or is it on coaching? Yes Leslie Frazier runs a version of Sean McDermott's defense but another DC may have a much better version that allows us to get to the QB better, we can't just keep doing the same things and expecting different results. I don't know if Dorsey's offense is good enough for where we want to be but it's hard to tell in just 1 season.

The 49ers also have Jimmy G under contract, not 40M a year, but not a rookie contract.  

[CoudyBills]

9 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

He HATES the Bills.... why give this clown more time?

The truth shall set you free

[Gunsgoodtime]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Oliver gets hurt and plays hurt all the time because he is too small for the NFL.  Stop drafting undersized guys and draft real men.  The third round LB from last year would not even make the Georgia cheer squad. 

One of the many wasted defensive picks that Beane has made, when we desperately need OL and Wr help.  Beane has been atrocious drafting the last few years and its hurting this team now

[The Frankish Reich]

11 hours ago, Beck Water said:

He's not wrong about the talent on the offensive side of the ball - the OL and skill players - not being comparable at all to the other remaining teams in the playoffs.

 

When he starts going off on how there's no (this player that player) on defense, I think he's missing that we lost Von Miller to injury and that we were playing without DaQuan Jones who has been key for us, and with Oliver and Phillips hampered.

Right. The defensive playmakers other than Milano were out or playing hurt. Miller, Hyde: out. Poyer, White, even Jordan Phillips (his shoulder injury ruined his great interior pass rush): playing hurt.

Now Simms has a point about the defense going forward. Miller may be effectively done - what will he have left in 2025 if he even does come back? White may or may not make it all the way back. Hyde may never play again, or play effectively again. Poyer will be gone. So that leaves Rousseau, who really seems to be dependent on having Miller on the opposite side at this early stage in his career.

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

The Florio points on Elam, never throwing to running backs and the passing game are all right. 

 

The Elam point I am surprised they haven't used him more - the two offensive points a lot of us made here before the season when Sal C and others were telling us not to worry about our lack of otuside receivers and to see Shakir and Cook as "pass catchers" who would play a part in this wonderfully diverse offense

 

Sal also works for the Bills so whatever he was saying he was probably getting from the front office as talking points.
 

Beane knows he messed up the receiver spot see pursuing OBJ till the end and signing Cole and John out of retirement. 

[The Frankish Reich]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Wow... Florio absolutely nails it re: McDermott.

Right. Even setting aside whether McD is the right HC going forward, Florio mentions something I hadn't thought of before: you bring in a new OC and Allen has a big year; that new OC is probably getting a head coaching gig somewhere else the next season. So there is a real bias toward hiring offensive-minded head coaches, and that makes a lot of sense in today's NFL.

10 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The entire 2022 draft class was a nonfactor during the 2022 season

Not a "nonfactor." Cook had a fine rookie season despite a painfully slow introduction into the RB rotation. Shakir: same as Cook. Early season reps = late season/playoff big plays, but they never really got them. Benford and Elam had their moments, Benford early, Elam late. Both look like keepers to me. And Matt Araiza certainly made an impact ...

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Different analyst but same basic points. I can't disagree with anything he says here.

 

 

 

Who is this guy?  He's different than the Florio guy who does Pro Football Talk, right?  Son?  Or just a lot of Florios in the world?

 

Anyway, he's not wrong overall.  I'm not so excited about the presence or absence of "pro bowl players", I think it's a popularity contest and especially on Ds that are built to be greater than the sum of their parts, it's harder for one player to stand out.  But it's a point that both Ed Oliver and Harrison Phillips (3rd round) are undersized, and that the Bills moved on from Phillilps and brought in the larger-size DaQuan Jones and Tim Settle because when everything else equals out, "mass" is a part of that F=ma equation. 

He's exactly correct that we have 2 WR who can win outside (and maybe that should be 1.5 since one of them had a low catch rate) and we built an offense around the deep ball.

 

I think we were trying to buffer the 1st year play caller with a lot of experience - his former boss on the Panthers, Joe Brady, etc - but I think that may have just led to "too many cooks" syndrome.  And I think there was no one who could rein Josh in and say "cut it out, take the checkdown, move the chains".

 

As far as the "take Allen off" point, I think there are very few teams that are >500 with their backup QB.  What are the Dolphins, 1-3?  The Ravens, 2-3? The Rams, 1-7?  The Eagles, 0-2?  I think the Cowboys at 4-1 and the SF49ers are more exceptions than typical. 

 

But, to his point, the Cowboys and 49ers both rely on a strong run game and a very well crafted short passing game, so there's a point that the Bills lack the offensive ingredients needed to take the pressure off the QB in the offense.

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Who is this guy?  He's different than the Florio guy who does Pro Football Talk, right?  Son?

Gotta be, right? Joining the family business.

 

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

He's exactly correct that we have 2 WR who can win outside (and maybe that should be 1.5 since one of them had a low catch rate) and we built an offense around the deep ball.

I think the loss of Crowder was bigger than we realized. This offense was best when Beasley was still Beasley. McKenzie is a neat gadget player but never really learned the slot. Shakir may someday, but he didn't get the chance this year; that's on McD and Dorsey. This junior Florio is also right when he says Cook and then Hines were brought in to get the RBs involved in the passing game, but that was never really implemented. The Hines addition in particular suggests a disconnect between Beane and Dorsey, maybe Beane and McD too? We barely used him. It's Offense 101 that an aggressive pass rush is best slowed down with screens and draw plays. Where were they?

 

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

As far as the "take Allen off" point, I think there are very few teams that are >500 with their backup QB

Of course. A stupid comment in an otherwise perceptive tweet storm.

 

As far as defense: I mentioned this before. It's the Billy Beane/Oakland A's thing -- "my [crap] doesn't work in the playoffs." The Frazier D is a great regular season D since you play average or below average offenses most of the time, particularly now in our division. Make most teams matriculate the ball downfield and they WILL make mistakes. Busted plays, penalties, dropped passes, and of course INTs and fumbles. Do that against a top offense and you just create 10 play/75 yard drives. Look at the Bengals yesterday: 2 (count 'em ... TWO) penalties. No turnovers. Every offensive drive but one a sustained/lengthy drive. They just don't beat themselves. So the Frazier offense (like the Billy Beane baseball roster) is a wonderful thing for getting to the playoffs with a high seeding. Once you're IN the playoffs you may need to change it up a bit. And he never does. It worked (barely) against the Dolphins last week because Skylar Thompson put together one nice drive but you knew he couldn't put together the two in a row that they needed. The Bengals? The put together half a dozen in a row just taking what Les gave them, 8-10 yards at a time.  

[Beck Water]

45 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I think the loss of Crowder was bigger than we realized. This offense was best when Beasley was still Beasley. McKenzie is a neat gadget player but never really learned the slot. Shakir may someday, but he didn't get the chance this year; that's on McD and Dorsey. This junior Florio is also right when he says Cook and then Hines were brought in to get the RBs involved in the passing game, but that was never really implemented. The Hines addition in particular suggests a disconnect between Beane and Dorsey, maybe Beane and McD too? We barely used him. It's Offense 101 that an aggressive pass rush is best slowed down with screens and draw plays. Where were they?

 

I agree on Crowder.  I don't entirely agree that McKenzie is a "neat gadget player"; he ran some good routes and made some good plays for us.  The thing is, he's a man-beater and I think you are right that he never learned to read the D and find the open spots in the zone.    So Crowder was supposed to be the zone beater slot, and McKenzie the man beater slot (and continue to learn from Crowder).  So we lost that when Crowder went out. 

I'm not entirely sure Shakir failing to "get the chance" is on McD and Dorsey more than on a receiver from a lower level of college competition needing time to learn his craft in the NFL.  He was getting a steady number of snaps and not doing a lot with them.

 

I kind of wonder if with Beasley, our offense evolved around his ability to read the D and find the hole, AND be on the same page with Josh about it - and we kept trying to replicate it with guys who just didn't have his ability and needed to have routes better defined for them.  Sort of like Rex Ryan's defense depending upon Jim Leonhard to decode it and get everyone into position, even when he was gimping around himself.

 

There was just some kind of weird disconnect a lot of the season where we would see guys open underneath, including Cook, Singletary, Knox, and McKenzie, and Josh simply wouldn't throw to them.  It was like he didn't trust our offense to be able to sustain long drives and mentally, to him, it was quick strikes or nothing.  That was his mindset in college, but I thought he'd evolved.

 

 

45 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

As far as defense: I mentioned this before. It's the Billy Beane/Oakland A's thing -- "my [crap] doesn't work in the playoffs." The Frazier D is a great regular season D since you play average or below average offenses most of the time, particularly now in our division. Make most teams matriculate the ball downfield and they WILL make mistakes. Busted plays, penalties, dropped passes, and of course INTs and fumbles. Do that against a top offense and you just create 10 play/75 yard drives. Look at the Bengals yesterday: 2 (count 'em ... TWO) penalties. No turnovers. Every offensive drive but one a sustained/lengthy drive. They just don't beat themselves. So the Frazier offense (like the Billy Beane baseball roster) is a wonderful thing for getting to the playoffs with a high seeding. Once you're IN the playoffs you may need to change it up a bit. And he never does. It worked (barely) against the Dolphins last week because Skylar Thompson put together one nice drive but you knew he couldn't put together the two in a row that they needed. The Bengals? The put together half a dozen in a row just taking what Les gave them, 8-10 yards at a time.  

 

We have learned how to change it up to handle, for example, the Chiefs.  How to cover and limit their personnel.  Part of what happened vs the Bengals seemed to be that we ran out of healthy horses.  No Von Miller, then no DaQuan Jones, Oliver and Phillips dinged, playing Jaquan Johnson almost half the game and Johnson and Lewis at safety almost 1/5 of the game.

 

But, what you say rings true to me.  Frazier's D for sure depends on the secondary holding up long enough to get home with 4, and if the passes come out quick and hit gaps in the zone, that doesn't work.

 

Is part of the issue just that Frazier doesn't make in-game adjustments?  I heard an interview with him once where he made it sound almost like a matter of principle to him, said something to the effect of "you don't like to throw out what you've practiced all week and have the players think that the coaches don't have faith in it", which seemed strange to me - if it's not working, wouldn't the players have more faith in the coaching if the coaches adjust?

Edited January 24, 2023 by Beck Water

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

1 hour ago, CoudyBills said:

The 49ers also have Jimmy G under contract, not 40M a year, but not a rookie contract.  

 

His cap hit is 12.6M

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/jimmy-garoppolo-14472/#:~:text=Jimmy Garoppolo signed a 1,average annual salary of %247%2C000%2C000.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

[Buddy Hix]

Beane has failed to acquire enough talent. Beane’s drafting is brutal and his contract extensions aren’t much better. Same situation as McD, deserves to be canned but absolutely won’t be.

 

Looking at the roster and the fact that McD and Beane aren’t going anywhere, expect to be in this exact position for the foreseeable future. Allen’s window will be closed before McBeane are gone.

[Since1981]

Hines. you traded, he clearly can run back kicks, historically well. Offense not using him was criminal. I’m not a Dorsey fan. Stuck on long ball. 

[Pete]

9 hours ago, Best Williams Available said:

Apologize if this was posted before: https://twitter.com/michaelfflorio/status/1617562321391620098?s=46&t=IlCHj31sbdfmj2MzT7PhGw

 

 

in the video the idea I like best is what Florio said about getting an offensive HC. The benefit of him, the OC, the QB coach and QB being incubators for creativity. Right now we have Dorsey and Josh, 2 inexperienced gunslingers making this choices. They could use some balanced input. McDermott can’t provide that.

I agree with every point Florio makes!

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Pete

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, Best Williams Available said:

Apologize if this was posted before: https://twitter.com/michaelfflorio/status/1617562321391620098?s=46&t=IlCHj31sbdfmj2MzT7PhGw

 

 

in the video the idea I like best is what Florio said about getting an offensive HC. The benefit of him, the OC, the QB coach and QB being incubators for creativity. Right now we have Dorsey and Josh, 2 inexperienced gunslingers making this choices. They could use some balanced input. McDermott can’t provide that.

I am not advocating firing McDermott, btw. He is, after all, the only one of 12 who is a defensive coach who got to a championship game in the last 3 years. But the trend seems to be pretty clear to me.

[pocoboy]

20 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

When he starts going off on how there's no (this player that player) on defense, I think he's missing that we lost Von Miller to injury and that we were playing without DaQuan Jones who has been key for us, and with Oliver and Phillips hampered.

 

I think the question OBD should begin asking: is it the talent brought in on the DL/LB that hasn't lived up to snuff? Or is it the McDermott/Frazier philosophy of heavy rotation that has stunted the development of talent into impact players?

 

It sure looks like the Bengals have hired this generation's Dick LeBeau.