Great and pretty brutal assessment of Bills’ talent by Chris Simms

[dave mcbride]

He goes to town here, and he ain’t wrong: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-tries-do-too-much-vs-cincinnati-bengals?ls=pftvod

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Chris Simms is a huge Josh Allen fan, and I hope OBD is listening. 

[Beck Water]

He's not wrong about the talent on the offensive side of the ball - the OL and skill players - not being comparable at all to the other remaining teams in the playoffs.

 

When he starts going off on how there's no (this player that player) on defense, I think he's missing that we lost Von Miller to injury and that we were playing without DaQuan Jones who has been key for us, and with Oliver and Phillips hampered.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Beck Water

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

He's not wrong about the talent on the offensive side of the ball - the OL and skill players - not being comparable at all to the other remaining teams in the playoffs.

 

When he starts going off on how there's no (this player that player) on defense, I think he's missing that we lost Von Miller to injury and that we were playing without DaQuan Jones who has been key for us, and with Oliver and Phillips hampered.

Jones is good, but he is a complementary piece and not a difference maker. He is not Chris Jones or anything close, in other words.

[Beck Water]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Jones is good, but he is a complementary piece and not a difference maker. He is not Chris Jones or anything close, in other words.

 

Respectfully, I believe you to be conflating "difference maker" with "putting up stats".

 

Putting pressure on the QB is Chris Jones job.  It is not Daquan Jones job.  His job was what Star Lotulelie was supposed to do, and with few exceptions never did - soak up OL and free the 3T to generate pressure up the middle.  And he was doing it.  Settle told us we were gonna love him, but he isn't in the same league.

 

That's more than a "complementary piece" to my definition.  Someone like that is actually foundational and fundamental to being able to get pressure in McD's defense.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Respectfully, I believe you to be conflating "difference maker" with "putting up stats".

 

Putting pressure on the QB is Chris Jones job.  It is not Daquan Jones job.  His job was what Star Lotulelie was supposed to do, and with few exceptions never did - soak up OL and free the 3T to generate pressure up the middle.  And he was doing it.  Settle told us we were gonna love him, but he isn't in the same league.

 

That's more than a "complementary piece" to my definition.  Someone like that is actually foundational and fundamental to being able to get pressure in McD's defense.

Chris Jones is borderline unblockable and one of the very best d-linemen in the league regardless of what he’s asked to do. He single-handedly wrecked the bills o-line in the 2021 afc championship game. Daquon jones is a nice piece and a big step up from Star L, but he is not a difference maker. He never has been. He s a very solid starter, but that’s kind of beside the point. The larger point is the lack of elite playmakers who make game-changing plays — and sacks are more often than not big, game-changing plays. That’s why teams including the Bills, prioritize guys who can get sacks. I wanted the Bills to go after Hassan Reddick, but it wasn’t to be. He has been grrat for the Eagles.

[Real McClappy]

33 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He goes to town here, and he ain’t wrong: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-tries-do-too-much-vs-cincinnati-bengals?ls=pftvod

Chris is spot on here. 

 

Thanks for sharing. 

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Chris Jones is borderline unblockable and one of the very best d-linemen in the league regardless of what he’s asked to do. He single-handedly wrecked the bills o-line in the 2021 afc championship game. Daquon jones is a nice piece and a big step up from Star L, but he is not a difference maker. He never has been. He s a very solid starter, but that’s kind of beside the point. The larger point is the lack of elite playmakers who make game-changing plays — and sacks are more often than not big, game-changing plays. That’s why teams including the Bills, prioritize guys who can get sacks. I wanted the Bills to go after Hassan Reddick, but it wasn’t to be. He has been grrat for the Eagles.

 

I feel like I just said "blahblah ginger blahblah" and you're missing the point I'm trying to make

 

Back to the Chris Simms thing:

Von Miller is an elite playmaker who can make game changing plays.  The Bills prioritized him because he's a player who can get sacks.  We lost him in November.

Oliver was drafted in 1st round to be an elite player.  He is, sometimes - and not others.  He was obviously playing hurt at the end of the season.  The big question the Bills need to answer is how often does that happen.

 

IMHO the Bills need to go after top talent on OL, not DL

[jahnyc]

I agree that Simms has this exactly right.  Some good players on the Bills, but other teams have more better players.  Bills lack "sizzle" around Josh and don't have any "sizzle" type players on D that can make game changing plays when needed.
 

[SCBills]

41 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He goes to town here, and he ain’t wrong: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-tries-do-too-much-vs-cincinnati-bengals?ls=pftvod

 

Wow... Florio absolutely nails it re: McDermott.

[thenorthremembers]

19 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Jones is good, but he is a complementary piece and not a difference maker. He is not Chris Jones or anything close, in other words.

He's not Chris Jones because they play vastly different positions.  DaQuan Jones is a space eating 1 technique and Chris Jones is a up field pass rusher who has played both 3 tech and Edge in the Chiefs defense. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

38 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He goes to town here, and he ain’t wrong: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-tries-do-too-much-vs-cincinnati-bengals?ls=pftvod

 

I agree somewhat to what Simms is saying but take the 3 teams Simms is mentioning here.... The Bengals, Eagles and 49ers, all 3 of these teams have QB's on rookie contracts, when Burrow, Hurts and either Purdy or Lance reup the contract they'll also be making big decisions. We should have more talent around Josh and on defense but that's what happens when you don't draft well or is it on coaching? Yes Leslie Frazier runs a version of Sean McDermott's defense but another DC may have a much better version that allows us to get to the QB better, we can't just keep doing the same things and expecting different results. I don't know if Dorsey's offense is good enough for where we want to be but it's hard to tell in just 1 season.

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Chris Jones is borderline unblockable and one of the very best d-linemen in the league regardless of what he’s asked to do. He single-handedly wrecked the bills o-line in the 2021 afc championship game. Daquon jones is a nice piece and a big step up from Star L, but he is not a difference maker. He never has been. He s a very solid starter, but that’s kind of beside the point. The larger point is the lack of elite playmakers who make game-changing plays — and sacks are more often than not big, game-changing plays. That’s why teams including the Bills, prioritize guys who can get sacks. I wanted the Bills to go after Hassan Reddick, but it wasn’t to be. He has been grrat for the Eagles.

A guy doesn’t have to be Chris Jones in order to be severely missed.  Jones was one of the most consistent performers on our team all season.  He was sorely missed yesterday.  Losing complimentary prices can have a negative impact on the sum.  It did yesterday. I don’t think there’s any doubt about it.  
 

that said- simms is right about the offense.

Beck Water is also right about Jones (and losing von). 

[Billsfan1972]

Sounds like a Allen fan and not far off.  Regardless this team is/was on the cusp, however were completely outcoached and embarrassed yesterday.  Coaches got off easy in this video.  

[Billsatlastin2018]

And another Bills beat down by Cowherd.

 

Bills embarrassment starts at about 7:10. He itemizes all of the faults, including taking out McClapper!

 

 

[GunnerBill]

We do not have enough elite talent. I can't remember who asked me two weeks ago do I still subscribe to my "you need 4 or 5 elite guys to win a Superbowl" theory and I said then I did and I still do. 

 

[colin]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

A guy doesn’t have to be Chris Jones in order to be severely missed.  Jones was one of the most consistent performers on our team all season.  He was sorely missed yesterday.  Losing complimentary prices can have a negative impact on the sum.  It did yesterday. I don’t think there’s any doubt about it.  
 

that said- simms is right about the offense.

Beck Water is also right about Jones (and losing von). 

 

to me this points out the only positive im clinging to right now.  a couple pure scrubs out of football/street free agents/mid tier FA pick ups added real value to our team (bease and brown, settle and jones, phillips and lawson).  so like, i just HAVE to assume the FO knows the guys they drafted and paid and such kinda blow, and you think if you do well in the draft and FA you can turn the ship around (we signed hyde and poyer on teh cheap a while back).

 

great players make players around them better.  we have so few of those that every time we have some people out we just seem to suck.

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

He's not Chris Jones because they play vastly different positions.  DaQuan Jones is a space eating 1 technique and Chris Jones is a up field pass rusher who has played both 3 tech and Edge in the Chiefs defense. 

I never said he was. I am just saying that one is more of an elite difference maker than the other irrespective of assignment. I mean, that’s not really debatable, right? 
 

Also, I am not advocating drafting d-line over offense at all. I am merely making the point that the team lacks high-end elite talent that can change games beyond Allen and Diggs. I am not talking about position at all. The Bills have a lot of perfectly decent-to-good players, of course. 

[Jerome007]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Coaches got off easy in this video.  

For all the player talk, the COACHES should be the main focus of the blame. I ask again this: when has Dorsey mesmerized with good schemes, gameplans, creative formations, etc.? Players have to put in a position to win. Look at other teams for comparisons. Hey, just look at what happened yesterday: sure Burrows, Higgins, Chase are top notch. But they didn't have to be yesterday! Good schemes made them win. 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

We do not have enough elite talent. I can't remember who asked me two weeks ago do I still subscribe to my "you need 4 or 5 elite guys to win a Superbowl" theory and I said then I did and I still do. 

 

 

They really need to overhaul the entire scouting/pro personnel department because they're not cutting it.  The ONLY value free agent Beane has signed is Jones.  The entire 2022 draft class was a nonfactor during the 2022 season.  Their scouting and player acquisition strategy have been C-level and with Allen graduating to a high cap hit, that's a recipe for disaster if it's not fixed.

[wvbillsfan]

I don’t mind the assessment but at some point the blame falls on our coaches and their talent 

The KC game last year was inexcusable and this playoff loss was the same but in a different manner. Preparation in the big moments continues to be lacking. Creativity on both sides is nonexistent 

 

Not saying we need to fire everyone. But we need to get better from a coaching standpoint and stop blaming execution 

[Brandon]

Both of them are 100% correct about this whole situation,  from the coaching staff to the players they're putting around Allen and the need for more playmakers on both sides of the ball.  

[Jerome007]

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

 

So what do you disagree with my post on exactly, "coach"?

 

That video by Cowherd is spot on. Total scheming and playcalling failure.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Jerome007

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

I don’t mind the assessment but at some point the blame falls on our coaches and their talent 

The KC game last year was inexcusable and this playoff loss was the same but in a different manner. Preparation in the big moments continues to be lacking. Creativity on both sides is nonexistent 

 

Not saying we need to fire everyone. But we need to get better from a coaching standpoint and stop blaming execution 

 

We need to be better coached than we were yesterday, without doubt. But the lack of difference makers in key moments still shows up. That is on talent. I don't think we are talented enough.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

We need to be better coached than we were yesterday, without doubt. But the lack of difference makers in key moments still shows up. That is on talent. I don't think we are talented enough.

 

I just don't understand how we don't even look Knox's way.  I do have a hard time believing Dorsey just excludes Knox....I think Allen doesn't look his way a lot.

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, colin said:

 

to me this points out the only positive im clinging to right now.  a couple pure scrubs out of football/street free agents/mid tier FA pick ups added real value to our team (bease and brown, settle and jones, phillips and lawson).  so like, i just HAVE to assume the FO knows the guys they drafted and paid and such kinda blow, and you think if you do well in the draft and FA you can turn the ship around (we signed hyde and poyer on teh cheap a while back).

 

great players make players around them better.  we have so few of those that every time we have some people out we just seem to suck.

 

But how do we fix that?

 

We draft late and have next to no cap space.

 

The only way to address this, is to take a machete to the team.  I don't necessarily think that's the worst decision.

 

Where can we free up money?

 

Let all sizeable money FA's walk.  Cut Hines.  Trade Oliver.  

 

If there is a big fish out there in FA, we should shuffle the deck and free up that money to sacrifice good players (plural) to add another elite piece. 

[Jerome007]

"Fire the coaches" is often just an easy pretend fix by a team to appease the fans, since it's much easier to do that than to find/hire/trade/draft players!

 

But in this case, coaching, for the playcalling and scheming, is the weak point. If many players feel the same, you just lost your team.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I just don't understand how we don't even look Knox's way.  I do have a hard time believing Dorsey just excludes Knox....I think Allen doesn't look his way a lot.

 

Nor me. One of the highest separation rates among TEs... 73% catch rate.... chronically underused. The only reason I think some of it might be Dorsey is it seemed they made a point of featuring him in the scripted plays. Then would get away from him. Multiple times this season. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We need to be better coached than we were yesterday, without doubt. But the lack of difference makers in key moments still shows up. That is on talent. I don't think we are talented enough.

And again let the coaches off the hook.  Baltimore almost beat Cincy without Lamar.  Are they more talented on offense?  They sure looked it moving the ball.  

 

Are the Bills so bad on Defense that Cincy set a record for Playoff first downs? 

 

Really two drives January 2 and first two drives yesterday and absolutely no Defense is just they are so much more talented? 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And again let the coaches off the hook.  Baltimore almost beat Cincy without Lamar.  Are they more talented on offense?  They sure looked it moving the ball.  

 

Are the Bills so bad on Defense that Cincy set a record for Playoff first downs? 

 

Really two drives January 2 and first two drives yesterday and absolutely no Defense is just they are so much more talented? 

 

Nope. I didn't let the coaches off the hook. We were poorly coached yesterday. But my point about talent remains. Teams that win Superbowl have 4 or 5 elite players. The Bills have 3 and one was done for the year. Brandon Beane is very good at finding people that can play. He is not very good at finding difference makers. That has to improve. As does the coaching in those big moments. 

 

I mean frankly EVERYTHING has to be better than yesterday. That was a ***** show. Coaches, the Quarterback, the defense, the line play.... it was all awful. But when you step back and look big picture at the season, my concern about our lack of true elite guys still stands. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Billzgobowlin]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

He's not wrong about the talent on the offensive side of the ball - the OL and skill players - not being comparable at all to the other remaining teams in the playoffs.

 

When he starts going off on how there's no (this player that player) on defense, I think he's missing that we lost Von Miller to injury and that we were playing without DaQuan Jones who has been key for us, and with Oliver and Phillips hampered.

And Micah Hyde

[Sargent Hulka]

15 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

And another Bills beat down by Cowherd.

 

Bills embarrassment starts at about 7:10. He itemizes all of the faults, including taking out McClapper!

 

 

Cowherd hits the nail on the head: Buffalo's O-Line was the weakest unit on the field.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Sargent Hulka said:

Cowherd hits the nail on the head: Buffalo's O-Line was the weakest unit on the field.

 

Has been for two years straight. It arguably got worse this year. 

[Don Otreply]

12 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

For all the player talk, the COACHES should be the main focus of the blame. I ask again this: when has Dorsey mesmerized with good schemes, gameplans, creative formations, etc.? Players have to put in a position to win. Look at other teams for comparisons. Hey, just look at what happened yesterday: sure Burrows, Higgins, Chase are top notch. But they didn't have to be yesterday! Good schemes made them win. 

And our bad schemes helped us lose, 

All success Dorsey has had are directly the result of Josh winging it to make something happen, Dorsey is imo over rated, and yes, I was one on that wagon, I was wrong, he is two years or more away from possibly knowing his job. 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

I said it another thread and started one last night.  We are all saying the same thing at this point.  Only the true hard core slurpers don’t see this.

We can’t let Josh’s prime years be wasted by mediocre drafts and blind loyalty.  Not to mention the competition in the AFC is not going to be easy moving forward.  We gotta pivot 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Has been for two years straight. It arguably got worse this year. 

Oline is weirdly built.  Besides Dawkins and Morse the others back up at best and run blockers at best. Still not understanding why calling long develop pass plays on how the Bills built the oline.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Oline is weirdly built. Dawkins and Morse the others back up and run blockers at best. Still not understanding why calling long develop pass plays on how the Bills built the oline.

 

Yea @Coach Tuesday and I discussed this last week. They have been very inconsistent on what they are looking for up front. Do they want maulers? Do they want athletes? Do they want technicians? Do they want pass protectors? Do they want run blockers? They have tried bits of everything and the result, 2 years in a row, is a confused mess. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nor me. One of the highest separation rates among TEs... 73% catch rate.... chronically underused. The only reason I think some of it might be Dorsey is it seemed they made a point of featuring him in the scripted plays. Then would get away from him. Multiple times this season. 

 

Only reason I can think of is they need to keep him in to block bc the line is Soo bad. But not even sure that's it.

[TheBrownBear]

The talent is fine (well, maybe not the O line, I agree we stink there).  Diggs is a grade A stud.  Knox is a good TE.  Cook and Motor are a fine complementary backfield duo.  A young guy like Shakir really flashed potential when we looked his way.  We probably do need to upgrade WR2.  So, yes, while we don't have all of the skill position pieces of a Philly or Cincy (we're probably comparable to KC), it's not as if we are trotting out garbage like the drought era Bills or the Packers or whatever this season.  The major issues with the offense this season were scheme, play design, playcalling and then Josh's decision-making after being put into bad positions by Dorsey. 

 

It's telling that the Bengals offense looked effortless despite starting three dudes off the street on o-line.  Their players executed great, but it was great coaching that put them in the position to bash our heads in.  Don't get me wrong, Burrow is fantastic, but it's easy to be "Joe Cool" when you're facing zero pressure and all of your targets have 5 yards between them and the nearest defender. 

 

Who's the next great young offensive mind hiding out there as a passing game coordinator or QB coach?  That's the guy the Bills need to be searching for starting today.  

Edited January 23, 2023 by TheBrownBear

[Ethan in Cleveland]

45 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I feel like I just said "blahblah ginger blahblah" and you're missing the point I'm trying to make

 

Back to the Chris Simms thing:

Von Miller is an elite playmaker who can make game changing plays.  The Bills prioritized him because he's a player who can get sacks.  We lost him in November.

Oliver was drafted in 1st round to be an elite player.  He is, sometimes - and not others.  He was obviously playing hurt at the end of the season.  The big question the Bills need to answer is how often does that happen.

 

IMHO the Bills need to go after top talent on OL, not DL

Oliver gets hurt and plays hurt all the time because he is too small for the NFL.  Stop drafting undersized guys and draft real men.  The third round LB from last year would not even make the Georgia cheer squad.