Rapoport: Greg Roman fired

[frostbitmic]

His offense would've been better this year if his QB, his QB's agent and the GM would've worked out a contract.

 

New Orleans would be a good landing spot for the QB, Agent and OC.

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah. You're wrong. Greg is a good coordinator. He is the best run game coordinator in football and he created a system in which unique players like Lamar and Kap can flourish. Because you are never winning with either dropping them back 40 times to throw from the pocket. 

 

If I was the Chicago Bears I'd already be on the phone. Want someone to make Justin Fields look legit? Greg Roman is your guy. 

 

I will come back and own it if I am wrong like I always do but Lamar in a pass heavy spread where it is one passing read or takeoff will not work. He needs a coordinator who can design around what he does and create confusion for the defense with design, formation and movement. That guy is Greg Roman. He is the best in the business at it. 

 

Can I say I think you're both right? 

 

Gunner right:

Roman is the best run game coordinator in football and has created a system in which players like Kap, Tyrod Taylor, and Lamar Jackson flourish

Chicago Bears should be on the phone

Lamar in a pass-heavy spread offense will not work as well.  He needs a coordinator who will design confusion into the run plays

 

C. Biscuit right:

Roman's system does seem to have an expiry where other teams start to "solve" it after 2-3 years, and it doesn't seem to evolve (enough)

Lamar has not evolved that much, as a passer

(not mentioned, but true: when Roman was in B'lo, pundits who know something questioned the design of the passing game - may be true with Ravens)

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

4 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Imagine if they have to pay him what he is asking?

Jests would be a great team next year, but their cap situation would implode rather quickly.

you kidding me? they in great cap situation to take on a Lamar. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You don’t run that sort of offense with Allen at QB. 

 

This is what I don't get...why do you think he will run the exact same offense that was specifically tailored for Lamar?  He built and tailored that offense specifically for Lamar.  He built one for Kapernick too and made him look so good he got a massive contract.  

 

If Roman comes in here, he will build this offense around Allen.  Beane is not going to bring in anyone who is going to try and turn Allen into a run first QB and put him at risk more than is needed.  If Roman came here, his focus would be to build an offense that brings some balance with a supporting rung game, rather than being full on run centric like Baltimore was.  You don't have a guy like Allen and just convert to a run dominant team.  

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Teams don't draft QB's high to indefinitely be running types in run-based offenses.  Perhaps at the outset this is understood, but those teams need their guy to develop into a passing QB who runs less.  Fields is entering year 3 and the top QBs had demonstrated an ability to play from the pocket.  

 

Roman takes a run first offense and makes it better...sure.  But run-first offenses need to eventually move into, driven by QB play, a solid passing team.  That's the way it's done in the NFL now.  Over an off-season teams learn how to stop guys like Kaepernick and Jackson if they don't become better passers.  

 

Well the Bears either need to spend the #1 pick on a QB or maximise the one they have. If they do the former, no issue with me. If they want to do the latter they should hire Greg Roman.

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Can I say I think you're both right? 

 

Gunner right:

Roman is the best run game coordinator in football and has created a system in which players like Kap, Tyrod Taylor, and Lamar Jackson flourish

Chicago Bears should be on the phone

Lamar in a pass-heavy spread offense will not work as well.  He needs a coordinator who will design confusion into the run plays

 

C. Biscuit right:

Roman's system does seem to have an expiry where other teams start to "solve" it after 2-3 years, and it doesn't seem to evolve (enough)

Lamar has not evolved that much, as a passer

(not mentioned, but true: when Roman was in B'lo, pundits who know something questioned the design of the passing game - may be true with Ravens)

 

 

 

Oh he doesn't have a very advanced passing offense. I agree with that. But what is the point having an advanced passing offense when you don't have an advanced passer?

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well the Bears either need to spend the #1 pick on a QB or maximise the one they have. If they do the former, no issue with me. If they want to do the latter they should hire Greg Roman.

 

Oh he doesn't have a very advanced passing offense. I agree with that. But what is the point having an advanced passing offense when you don't have an advanced passer?

What is the end goal with that move?  #1 running offense, 25th passing offense and sneak into the Wild Card?

 

I 100% agree that Greg is the best OC out there for a mobile QB who is limited as a passer.  But at this point, he has never developed a QB into a better passer.  So besides being a means to overcompensating for a less than stellar passing game, I'm not sure he's the guy who is going to develop your young QB into anything more.

[Beck Water]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I actually think Roman would be an interesting OC candidate here.

 

I actually think you're totally nuts.

 

We need (IMO) better passing plays and better integration of the run and pass game.

 

When Roman was in B'lo, the fundamental design of his passing game and how it integrated (or didn't) with the run game was criticized, both by some knowledgeable posters here and by some knowledgable pundits, like former NFL QB type.  The comment was that what was happening in the pocket didn't align with what was happening downfield.

 

Roman has resigned, been fired, whatever, after 4, 2, and 4 seasons.  In Buffalo, at least, there were intimations that he had a big ego, refused to accept input from anyone else, and insisted that the game plan be his and his alone.

 

He would be "interesting" in the style of the curse "may you live in interesting times"

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

This is what I don't get...why do you think he will run the exact same offense that was specifically tailored for Lamar?  He built and tailored that offense specifically for Lamar.  He built one for Kapernick too and made him look so good he got a massive contract.  

 

If Roman comes in here, he will build this offense around Allen.  Beane is not going to bring in anyone who is going to try and turn Allen into a run first QB and put him at risk more than is needed.  If Roman came here, his focus would be to build an offense that brings some balance with a supporting rung game, rather than being full on run centric like Baltimore was.  You don't have a guy like Allen and just convert to a run dominant team.  

Have we ever seen Roman do this?

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Have we ever seen Roman do this?

 

He did it with Kaep.

[Alphadawg7]

So much negativity about Roman as possible OC here if Dorsey left...yet...Romans resume includes:

 

Kapernick was in the Super Bowl, and landed a massive contract.

Tyrod Taylor was a 2 time Pro Bowler.

Alex Smith got to the NFC Championship.

Lamar Jackson was an unanimous MVP.

 

You telling me this guy is not a good OC?  This guy has not had anything like Allen to work with, closest would be Lamar.  But with Lamar, not only he is not as good as a passer as Allen, he also never had any real top end WR's to throw to either.  

 

I for one would be curious to see what he could do as an OC while finally working with a QB as talented and rare as Allen.  In every spot he has gone, he has completely tailored the offense to the QB.  He is not going to try and bring the offense he built for Lamar here and turn Josh into a running QB and this into a run first offense.  He will build it to Allen's strengths and take some pressure off him with incorporating more of a run game around him.

[The Frankish Reich]

58 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I actually think Roman would be an interesting OC candidate here.

I agree. Roman’s history:

- success in SF with Kaep, a guy who basically would never be the classic dropback/pocket passer.

- success is Buffalo by using his system to hide the shortcomings of Tyrod Taylor

- success in Baltimore with Lamar. See Point 1, above. 
 

So what happens if he inherits a really, really good QB who can win in all kinds of different ways? Does he transform him into a run-first guy? Or does he build a system that complements that QB’s abilities?  Before Kaep he had Alex Smith in SF, during the time Smith turned from consensus bust into Pro Bowl QB. Smith was the (extremely) poor man’s Josh Allen — a good (not great like Josh) thrower and a good (not great like Josh) runner. It won’t happen, but it would be very interesting. 
 

Actually, the Broncos may want to give Roman a call …

 

Edit:  hat tip to Alphadawg7 - you beat me to it. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by The Frankish Reich

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Oh he doesn't have a very advanced passing offense. I agree with that. But what is the point having an advanced passing offense when you don't have an advanced passer?

 

You quickly get into a "chicken and egg" conundrum here.   Other guys who came into the league tenuous as passers like Allen and Hurst, have evolved and improved.  Lamar appeared to take a step forward as a passer last season, improving his Y/G to 240 Y/G from 180 or 200. 

 

This season he took a step back. 

 

Is he gonna become Joe Burrow, absolutely not, but I think there's a serious question as to whether the system and OC were maximizing his passing abilities.

 

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Have we ever seen Roman do this?

 

Yes.  

 

He did it for Kap, and that Kap was damn good and got them to the SB and a massive contract.

He did it for Alex Smith, and took them to the NFC Championship game.

He did it for Tyrod Taylor who despite not being very good, got enough out of him he made 2 pro bowls.

He did it for Lamar, and that included winning unanimous MVP (something that doesn't happen often) despite poor cast of receiving weapons.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

I bet the jets will be interested 

[wppete]

Lamar is a gone next. What can the Ravens get for Lamar? 2 First Round picks + 2 Second Round Picks? I bet Carolina, Atalanta and Washington go after him. 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I actually think you're totally nuts.

 

We need (IMO) better passing plays and better integration of the run and pass game.

 

When Roman was in B'lo, the fundamental design of his passing game and how it integrated (or didn't) with the run game was criticized, both by some knowledgeable posters here and by some knowledgable pundits, like former NFL QB type.  The comment was that what was happening in the pocket didn't align with what was happening downfield.

 

Roman has resigned, been fired, whatever, after 4, 2, and 4 seasons.  In Buffalo, at least, there were intimations that he had a big ego, refused to accept input from anyone else, and insisted that the game plan be his and his alone.

 

He would be "interesting" in the style of the curse "may you live in interesting times"

 

I was one of the ones critical of the offense back then too...but you are talking about an offense helmed by Tyrod Taylor and a team coached with dysfunction by Rex Ryan.

 

Yet, despite all that, Tyrod Taylor made the Pro Bowl under Roman.  And again, Taylor wasn't a good starter. 

 

How can you compare that situation to this team led by Allen and with a quality coaching?

[Mr. WEO]

"pass"

 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

He did it with Kaep.

They were just as run heavy as they were everywhere else.

 

Kaep's first year as the starter. 11th offense in points, 3 in rushing yards, 30 in passing yards.

 

Even looking at Alex SMith (who sneaky may be the best passer of all the QB's Roman ever worked with).

 

11th offense in PPG, 8th in rushing yards, 3rd in rushing TD's, 29 in passing yards.

 

I contend it's the same offense everywhere he goes.  He is a master at taking elite mobile QB's and good RB's and producing points/yards on the ground in a league that's built to pass. I'm not sure he has proven to be able to build any other offense.

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yes.  

 

He did it for Kap, and that Kap was damn good and got them to the SB and a massive contract.

He did it for Alex Smith, and took them to the NFC Championship game.

He did it for Tyrod Taylor who despite not being very good, got enough out of him he made 2 pro bowls.

He did it for Lamar, and that included winning unanimous MVP (something that doesn't happen often) despite poor cast of receiving weapons.

See above.

[aristocrat]

Indy should hire him with whatever qb they're taking in the draft. With Taylor they'd be a good offense

[The Frankish Reich]

Much like the Shanahans, any Roman-coached offense will, without fail, run the ball effectively. Yes, we are in a pass-happy NFL today. But the lack of a consistent run game has hurt us before, and it may very well hurt us again. 

[Beck Water]

According to the Ravens and Roman, he "resigned to pursue other opportunities"

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35481734/ravens-oc-greg-roman-resigns-amid-offense-declining-results

[YoloinOhio]

 

[The Frankish Reich]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

"pass"

 

TBD fans today: “pass”

TBD fans if Allen and the offense this weekend look like they did last weekend: fire Dorsey! Bring back Roman!!

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Ooooooooooooooookay gl lil bro.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

TBD fans today: “pass”

TBD fans if Allen and the offense this weekend look like they did last weekend: fire Dorsey! Bring back Roman!!

 

This Offense has no use for a guy who creates plans for an option QB

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This Offense has no use for a guy who creates plans for an option QB

Come on bro.

 

Look at Greg Roman's history.

 

10 years as a coordinator. 1 year with passing attempts more than 28th in the league.  Sounds like just the guy Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs want.

 

 

[Utah John]

Roman is an innovative coach who designs schemes to maximize his best players.  His Ravens scheme was brilliant for Lamar Jackson, but with it looking likely that Jackson won't return, that scheme is a non-starter for any other QB. It is absolutely not Roman's fault that Jackson chose not to play against the Bengals, but since Tyler Huntley is a very poor man's version of Jackson, the scheme didn't work when they needed it to.

 

If I was Baltimore I'd keep Roman and let him come up with something to fit whoever is the QB next year.  If it turns out to be Jackson after all, they're going to regret not having Roman around.  

 

As for the Bills, I think Roman could probably adapt to do a good job with a Josh-centric offense.  Josh is also a great running QB but he's a much better passer, and the Bills O line is built for pass protection, not running.  So he'd have to adapt, but I think he could do that effectively, and I think Beane would be able to revise the O line to meet his plans.

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They were just as run heavy as they were everywhere else.

 

Kaep's first year as the starter. 11th offense in points, 3 in rushing yards, 30 in passing yards.

 

Even looking at Alex SMith (who sneaky may be the best passer of all the QB's Roman ever worked with).

 

11th offense in PPG, 8th in rushing yards, 3rd in rushing TD's, 29 in passing yards.

 

I contend it's the same offense everywhere he goes.  He is a master at taking elite mobile QB's and good RB's and producing points/yards on the ground in a league that's built to pass. I'm not sure he has proven to be able to build any other offense.

See above.

 

But you don't think that is a product of who is he is working with?  He has managed to maximize guys mostly not seen as good passers.  He has masked their weaknesses and played to their strengths.  

 

With Josh, he is a lethal passer and a lethal runner.  He has never had someone like him, not to mention, we also have Diggs.  Look at what he got out of Andrews in Balt, imagine him working with Knox too.  

 

I am not gonna campaign for him, I even had my issues with the offense when he was last here.  But the makeup of this team makes me see him as an intriguing candidate is all I am saying.  

[H2o]

Roman's scheme is great for a running QB and rushing attack overall, but it is death to any WR for the most part and not very creative in the passing game. It has always been like this even back to his time in SF. The Ravens are making the right move no matter who their QB will be next season. 

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

To me this makes a long-term Lamar deal less likely.

 

Edit: Is he too run heavy to be a Dorsey replacement candidate?

Beane always said when he was going to draft a QB that wasn't system dependent yet Roman seems to thrive with QBs that are less arm talented. If we do lose Dorsey I'd think that next man up be either Joe Brady, Chad Hall or Mike Shula for our OC. 

6 minutes ago, H2o said:

Roman's scheme is great for a running QB and rushing attack overall, but it is death to any WR for the most part and not very creative in the passing game. It has always been like this even back to his time in SF. The Ravens are making the right move no matter who their QB will be next season. 

I'd imagine the Ravens will franchise tag Lamar and keep him for 1 season with a new OC, if he excels with the new OC then he gets a long term deal otherwise he's gone and they find a new QB that meets the new OC style of offense better. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

To me this makes a long-term Lamar deal less likely.

 

Edit: Is he too run heavy to be a Dorsey replacement candidate?

 

Given Lamar's comments in the past (that he walked back) it might make it more likely..

[Ta111]

I thought Roman put an outstanding game plan together against the Bengals. They were undermanned and really moved the ball. But for a fluke play late in the game they probably win.

[Scott7975]

20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

and he was a 57% completion passer in that college 'pro style' offense.

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

To me this makes a long-term Lamar deal less likely.

 

Edit: Is he too run heavy to be a Dorsey replacement candidate?

I think it makes it more likely honestly. I’m fairly confident both Lamar and Baltimore think they should be evolving beyond Roman’s stuff by now. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah. You're wrong. Greg is a good coordinator. He is the best run game coordinator in football and he created a system in which unique players like Lamar and Kap can flourish. Because you are never winning with either dropping them back 40 times to throw from the pocket. 

 

If I was the Chicago Bears I'd already be on the phone. Want someone to make Justin Fields look legit? Greg Roman is your guy. 

 

I will come back and own it if I am wrong like I always do but Lamar in a pass heavy spread where it is one passing read or takeoff will not work. He needs a coordinator who can design around what he does and create confusion for the defense with design, formation and movement. That guy is Greg Roman. He is the best in the business at it. 

 

EDIT: at the same time... I wouldn't hire Greg Roman to coordinate my offense if I had an elite QB. But that only takes out a handful of teams. At least two thirds of the league would benefit from having him

 

No you’re wrong (oh wait it’s pretty stupid to say someone’s opinion is wrong and yours is gospel). Also, reading comprehension 101, I never once said he was a bad OC. I said his system gets old after a few years.  Teams adjusts and the Ravens with Lamar are stuck in a different generation. It has been system. But now when they have to pay a qb a ton of money, they don’t know if he is the type of guy you can invest in. They surround him with garbage wrs (Sammy Watkins started a playoff game) and have zero creativity in the passing game. 
 

is Lamar a great passer? Probably not. Allen wasn’t considered a great passer until his 3rd year in an offense that was constantly modifying itself to the current nfl, with a ton of multiple receiver sets. The Ravens still run 4 TE sets. 
 

so yes Roman can be good for a couple years with the right qb. However, with the best QB he has had, it was getting really stale and the Ravens don’t know for sure if Lamar is the guy. And my opinion is 100% right and yours is wrong. 

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What is the end goal with that move?  #1 running offense, 25th passing offense and sneak into the Wild Card?

 

I 100% agree that Greg is the best OC out there for a mobile QB who is limited as a passer.  But at this point, he has never developed a QB into a better passer.  So besides being a means to overcompensating for a less than stellar passing game, I'm not sure he's the guy who is going to develop your young QB into anything more.

 

The end goal is to try and win football games. 

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But you don't think that is a product of who is he is working with?  He has managed to maximize guys mostly not seen as good passers.  He has masked their weaknesses and played to their strengths.  

 

With Josh, he is a lethal passer and a lethal runner.  He has never had someone like him, not to mention, we also have Diggs.  Look at what he got out of Andrews in Balt, imagine him working with Knox too.  

 

I am not gonna campaign for him, I even had my issues with the offense when he was last here.  But the makeup of this team makes me see him as an intriguing candidate is all I am saying.  

Maybe?  It also may be a product of his own ability. For all we know, he sucks at designing a passer attack as much as his QB's have sucked at executing one.

 

The guy simply has not proven he can do it.  That's all. He runs the same offense everywhere he goes. He takes great runners and crummy passers and runs a run-frist offense. He's never run a pass first offense. He's never even run a balanced offense (compared to his NFL peers.)  What proof do you have he can run this lethal balanced attack with a great QB?

 

In fact, our only example of a QB who flourished AFTER Roman was Smith and he was in a more balanced system (obviously he had Andy Reid though).

[dave mcbride]

43 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What is the end goal with that move?  #1 running offense, 25th passing offense and sneak into the Wild Card?

 

I 100% agree that Greg is the best OC out there for a mobile QB who is limited as a passer.  But at this point, he has never developed a QB into a better passer.  So besides being a means to overcompensating for a less than stellar passing game, I'm not sure he's the guy who is going to develop your young QB into anything more.

The year the Ravens went 14-2, they moved up and down the field vs. TN and lost only because of turnovers. They had 530 yards on offense in that game! It was a genuinely fluky loss. They were number one in the league in offense that year too. And Roman OC'd a team that got to three straight NFC championship games and one SB while in SF, where the team's record was 36-11-1. 

[DCOrange]

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

and he was a 57% completion passer in that college 'pro style' offense.

He threw for over 7,000 yards his final 2 years and almost literally threw 0 screen passes. His completion percentage was great considering the offense and personnel he had.

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The end goal is to try and win football games. 

Okay. My end goal would be trying to get a franchise QB. 

 

GRo runs the wrong offense for that (and I have a tremendous respect for him).

 

If I hire an OC, I want one who is gonna have our young QB chucking it.  I want him to trying to learn and run an NFL caliber offense. Not hiding behind a run scheme that will get its doors blown off in wild card weekend by a real franchise QB.

 

Josh Allen wouldn't be Josh Allen today if he had GRo instead of Daboll.  We may have won more games in 18-19, but he wouldn't be the same player. Daboll made him go out there with empty backfields and make checks like a true NFL QB.

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The year the Ravens went 14-2, they moved up and down the field vs. TN and lost only because of turnovers. They had 530 yards on offense in that game! It was a genuinely fluky loss. They were number one in the league in offense that year too. And Roman OC'd a team that got to three straight NFC championship games and one SB while in SF, where the team's record was 36-11-1. 

See above. Because now it ends with him fired (again) and a QB who has massive question marks around paying (again.)

Edited January 19, 2023 by FireChans