Rapoport: Greg Roman fired

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

The year the Ravens went 14-2, they moved up and down the field vs. TN and lost only because of turnovers. They had 530 yards on offense in that game! It was a genuinely fluky loss. They were number one in the league in offense that year too. And Roman OC'd a team that got to three straight NFC championship games and one SB while in SF, where the team's record was 36-11-1. 

Agree with this 100% Dave. But I guess the question is, does he grow quarterbacks?  I think Lamar is the most talented qb he has had (CK is in the running but I think Lamar is a more accurate passer) but he has plateaued.  And it’s not all Roman but the Ravens, one of the best organizations in sports, for whatever reason, hate wrs. They never made a Diggs type move or drafted a no doubt stud guy.

13 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

and he was a 57% completion passer in that college 'pro style' offense.

At almost 9 ypa with very little nfl talent around him. He single handedly carried that team. Very similar to Allen.

[BuffaloBills1998]

I think this will bite the ravens in the ass. Roman had the perfect system for Jackson. You take him out of that system and he will be exposed big time. They better have a back up plan

Edited January 19, 2023 by BuffaloBills1998

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You quickly get into a "chicken and egg" conundrum here.   Other guys who came into the league tenuous as passers like Allen and Hurst, have evolved and improved.  Lamar appeared to take a step forward as a passer last season, improving his Y/G to 240 Y/G from 180 or 200. 

 

This season he took a step back. 

 

Is he gonna become Joe Burrow, absolutely not, but I think there's a serious question as to whether the system and OC were maximizing his passing abilities.

 

 

I kmow his numbers took a step back but that was supporting cast IMO. Andrews missed games, Bateman missed games, Hollywood was gone, the backs were banged up again. Not sure how great your numbers are going to be with Duvernay and Isaiah Likely.

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree with this 100% Dave. But I guess the question is, does he grow quarterbacks?  I think Lamar is the most talented qb he has had (CK is in the running but I think Lamar is a more accurate passer) but he has plateaued.  And it’s not all Roman but the Ravens, one of the best organizations in sports, for whatever reason, hate wrs. They never made a Diggs type move or drafted a no doubt stud guy.

He does the opposite. He gets bad QB's paid.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree with this 100% Dave. But I guess the question is, does he grow quarterbacks?  I think Lamar is the most talented qb he has had (CK is in the running but I think Lamar is a more accurate passer) but he has plateaued.  And it’s not all Roman but the Ravens, one of the best organizations in sports, for whatever reason, hate wrs. They never made a Diggs type move or drafted a no doubt stud guy.

I dunno, CB; I'm less about long term development than winning a SB. And the 2019 Ravens as well as the 49ers every year between 2011 and 2013 were SB caliber teams without a doubt. To put it a different way, what Josh is doing at age 30 doesn't mean much to me if he brings us a SB victory this year.

 

I think @GunnerBill is absolutely right about the Bears, and I'd add another reason. 75-plus years is a long time, and that's been about how long the Bears have lacked anything approaching an elite passing game. If any team is cursed with regard to passing QBs, it is the Bears. They should accept that they can't change fate and instead go all out to be a Ravens-like running QB team with Roman calling the shots. 

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

TBD fans today: “pass”

TBD fans if Allen and the offense this weekend look like they did last weekend: fire Dorsey! Bring back Roman!!

 

Seriously?  Who on earth do you think would say that?

 

423 total yards.  56% 3rd down conversion.  9 yards per pass attempt, 4.1 yds per rush attempt.  The problems the offense had last weekend were all self-inflicted wounds.  How do you think Roman would somehow solve incompletions on catchable balls, or a strip sack on the 12 yd line run in for a TD?

 

 

 

 

[colin]

so,

 

i dunno if roman can change his spots enough to run what would be considered a good O for us (i'd give him a 25% of that) but i know i don't want him over dorsey (yeah yeah, might not have the choice!) because in his first OC year dorsey has us passing and running, which i think was our prior biggest flaw.

 

i will say, i DON'T WANT roman and lamar to both end up on the jets.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Okay. My end goal would be trying to get a franchise QB. 

 

GRo runs the wrong offense for that (and I have a tremendous respect for him).

 

If I hire an OC, I want one who is gonna have our young QB chucking it.  I want him to trying to learn and run an NFL caliber offense. Not hiding behind a run scheme that will get its doors blown off in wild card weekend by a real franchise QB.

 

The Bears have the #1 pick. If they want to draft a Quarterback and give up on Fields I won't say a word against that. This is their chance. But if they are not you can't just keep losing. If they decide to stick with Fields they have to try and make Fields work. There are not enough franchise QBs to go around. There are what? 10-12 tier 1 and 2 guys? You can't have 2/3s of the league trying to lose. If they want to pull the plug on Fields I'd support them doing so. If not try and win some damn football games

 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

He does the opposite. He gets bad QB's paid.

Well a ton of bad qbs get paid. Chase Daniel got paid for absolutely nothing. I think Lamar can do more as a passer. We’ll see.

[BuffaloBills1998]

3 minutes ago, colin said:

so,

 

i dunno if roman can change his spots enough to run what would be considered a good O for us (i'd give him a 25% of that) but i know i don't want him over dorsey (yeah yeah, might not have the choice!) because in his first OC year dorsey has us passing and running, which i think was our prior biggest flaw.

 

i will say, i DON'T WANT roman and lamar to both end up on the jets.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/19/ravens-reiterate-their-desire-to-do-a-long-term-deal-with-lamar-jackson/ 
 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/19/john-harbaugh-oc-job-will-be-highly-sought-after-lamar-jackson-will-have-input/ I don’t think you have to worry about that. Looks like he’s gonna stay in Baltimore 

[Beck Water]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I dunno, CB; I'm less about long term development than winning a SB. And the 2019 Ravens as well as the 49ers every year between 2011 and 2013 were SB caliber teams without a doubt.

 

How do you figure that? 

 

I mean, Championship caliber is, as Championship caliber does.  The Ravens got pretty solidly Whumped in the playoffs in 2019.  I think the general perception of the 49ers in 2011-2013 was that they had an outstanding defense, and just not enough offense to match it.

[Jerome007]

46 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Indy should hire him with whatever qb they're taking in the draft. With Taylor they'd be a good offense

Very bad idea...for the Bills.

 

Their OLine was so good last year it felt almost stupid when they passed! Taylor is very good, but that OLine was the star IMO. I don't get how it didn't work out for them this year. I was glad they missed the playoffs last year as they were made to beat the then run D deficient Bills.

 

As for being OC here again, only if Dorsey is hired somewhere else, and if he can let McD, Josh and others provide input for the pass game.

[H2o]

22 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'd imagine the Ravens will franchise tag Lamar and keep him for 1 season with a new OC, if he excels with the new OC then he gets a long term deal otherwise he's gone and they find a new QB that meets the new OC style of offense better. 

I'm not sold they don't move on from him this year. There is no time now they could greater maximize their return for him. I am thinking they wil FT him and then trade him to the highest bidder.

[FireChans]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bears have the #1 pick. If they want to draft a Quarterback and give up on Fields I won't say a word against that. This is their chance. But if they are not you can't just keep losing. If they decide to stick with Fields they have to try and make Fields work. There are not enough franchise QBs to go around. There are what? 10-12 tier 1 and 2 guys? You can't have 2/3s of the league trying to lose. If they want to pull the plug on Fields I'd support them doing so. If not try and win some damn football games

 

and GRo will make him work in the short-term, not the long-term.

 

We won more games with Tuh than Josh their first two years starting.  And yet, making Tyrod "work" wasn't the answer to put the Bills in position to win a Super Bowl.

 

Do you think Josh would have developed as much as he has as a passer with GRo instead of Daboll?

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I dunno, CB; I'm less about long term development than winning a SB. And the 2019 Ravens as well as the 49ers every year between 2011 and 2013 were SB caliber teams without a doubt. To put it a different way, what Josh is doing at age 30 doesn't mean much to me if he brings us a SB victory this year.

 

I think @GunnerBill is absolutely right about the Bears, and I'd add another reason. 75-plus years is a long time, and that's been about how long the Bears have lacked anything approaching an elite passing game. If any team is cursed with regard to passing QBs, it is the Bears. They should accept that they can't change fate and instead go all out to be a Ravens-like running QB team with Roman calling the shots. 

Agree 100% he would do great with the Bears. And obviously, winning is the objective. But long term is that the best way to grow Fields (who has a similar skill set to Allen imo). 
 

I think they need to see Lamar in a different system before paying him. Could backfire but at least they will know before investing a ton of money. 

[LABILLBACKER]

I either want Dorsey to drastically improve year 2 and insist on surrounding  Josh with more offensive help (OL/WR)....or move on and go after Frank Riech.  This is insanity how long we've ignored and neglected this OL.

[RocCityRoller]

If Dorsey and Brady move on I would definitely interview him as OC. Mike Shula is still on the staff with no rumors for interviews.

 

Roman could help develop an actual run game to compliment Josh Allen. Keep Mike Shula as a passing game coordinator to flesh out Roman's run concepts, and keep the passing attack JA and Diggs/Davis/Knox are familiar with. The offense would probably look more like Philly or Cincy than 'Josh do it all'.

 

It might force Buffalo to make some actual investments in the OL and be more productive with the RBs. I'd love to see what he could do with Cook, Singletary, or a Singletary like back-fill, McKenzie and a QB like Allen.

 

Roman has often made chicken salad with chicken sh!t.

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree 100% he would do great with the Bears. And obviously, winning is the objective. But long term is that the best way to grow Fields (who has a similar skill set to Allen imo). 
 

I think they need to see Lamar in a different system before paying him. Could backfire but at least they will know before investing a ton of money. 

The year is 2025.  Justin Fields has throw for 3300 yards 22 TD's and 12 INT's the last two year in Greg Roman's system.  Rushes for 700 yards and 6 TD's. The Bears win 10 games each year, making the playoffs once and losing in the Wild Card round. Fields wants top 5 QB money. Contract negotiations start breaking down (it's the system, his numbers aren't that impressive etc etc.)

 

TBD makes the topic.  "Should the Bears pay Fields?"

 

And around and around we go on the Greg Roman carousel.

[appoo]

Would love to see Lamar in a vertical/spread system

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

and GRo will make him work in the short-term, not the long-term.

 

We won more games with Tuh than Josh their first two years starting.  And yet, making Tyrod "work" wasn't the answer to put the Bills in position to win a Super Bowl.

 

Do you think Josh would have developed as much as he has as a passer with GRo instead of Daboll?

 

No. But I believe that Allen is a bit of a unicorn. I don't think you fall into the trap of trying to make every young drafted QB who struggles early Josh Allen. I'd hire GRo. I'd say let's do this for 2 years. If it still doesn't work I am probably firing my HC, OC and drafting a new QB. 

 

Of course if they really like one of the QBs this year they should do that and keep Getsy or hire some other OC.

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree 100% he would do great with the Bears. And obviously, winning is the objective. But long term is that the best way to grow Fields (who has a similar skill set to Allen imo). 
 

I think they need to see Lamar in a different system before paying him. Could backfire but at least they will know before investing a ton of money. 

 

Hoping each big athletic QB becomes Allen isn't a road to success IMO.

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

How do you figure that? 

 

I mean, Championship caliber is, as Championship caliber does.  The Ravens got pretty solidly Whumped in the playoffs in 2019.  I think the general perception of the 49ers in 2011-2013 was that they had an outstanding defense, and just not enough offense to match it.

Because in every one of those years, the final playoff games came down to essentially last-play situations: a weird muff in 2011 in OT, a fourth down miss from within the 10 yard line with a few seconds to go in 2012, and a ridiculously good Richard Sherman breakup of a pass to Crabtree in the EZ on the final play. They played evenly with their opponents in all of those games, and in 2011 and 2013, their opponents went on to win SBs. Yes, the Niners had good defenses, but -- for instance -- the Niners run game in the 2012 SB was unstoppable once it got rolling late in the game. They could easily have won that game. Indeed, on the third down play on their final possession, the play was there but Kaepernick missed seeing the crosser, who would have scored. 

 

In 2019, the Ravens put up 530 yards but had a staggering number of turnovers and the like. Tennessee literally couldn't stop them and Baltimore was clearly the better team. They would have beaten TN 8 out of 10 times, but turnovers of course happen.  

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The year is 2025.  Justin Fields has throw for 3300 yards 22 TD's and 12 INT's the last two year in Greg Roman's system.  Rushes for 700 yards and 6 TD's. The Bears win 10 games each year, making the playoffs once and losing in the Wild Card round. Fields wants top 5 QB money. Contract negotiations start breaking down (it's the system, his numbers aren't that impressive etc etc.)

 

TBD makes the topic.  "Should the Bears pay Fields?"

 

And around and around we go on the Greg Roman carousel.

Or they draft five difference makers on D this year with the haul they get from trading out of one, play ball control, and win with a dominant defense, going 13-4 and winning a SB. It's not like this hasn't almost happened multiple times in the past with Roman.

Edited January 19, 2023 by dave mcbride

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. But I believe that Allen is a bit of a unicorn. I don't think you fall into the trap of trying to make every young drafted QB who struggles early Josh Allen. I'd hire GRo. I'd say let's do this for 2 years. If it still doesn't work I am probably firing my HC, OC and drafting a new QB. 

 

Of course if they really like one of the QBs this year they should do that and keep Getsy or hire some other OC.

I think they need to make the choice of "Is Justin Fields capable of running an NFL offense?"  If the answer is "we don't know," then you run an NFL offense and see what happens. If the answer is "no," then you dump his ass and draft Bryce Young or whoever.

 

Skip the entire Roman option entirely. Just a waste of time.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Listened to a Ravens insider last week, and Roman was not liked in Baltimore. 

 

The consensus was he can design an outstanding run game, but never could do much with the pass. He described as a high-school level simplistic. 

 

DeCosta is the long-time FO member there, so I would expect them to start investing more in pass catchers. 

 

Unless they get a QB that can pass outside the numbers - I don’t think it matters how much they invest in pass catchers.

 

I think they have seen exactly what they have in Lamar and they invested correctly - big time TEs and guys to the middle of the field.

 

Long term unless they are moving on - this is a bad decision for the future of the team.

 

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Because in every one of those years, the final playoff games came down to essentially last-play situations: a weird muff in 2011 in OT, a fourth down miss from within the 10 yard line with a few seconds to go in 2012, and a ridiculously good Richard Sherman breakup of a pass to Crabtree in the EZ on the final play. They played evenly with their opponents in all of those games, and in 2011 and 2013, their opponents went on to win SBs. Yes, the Niners had good defenses, but -- for instance -- the Niners run game in the 2012 SB was unstoppable once it got rolling late in the game. They could easily have won that game. Indeed, on the third down play on their final possession, the play was there but Kaepernick missed seeing the crosser, who would have scored. 

 

In 2019, the Ravens put up 530 yards but had a staggering number of turnovers and the like. Tennessee literally couldn't stop them and Baltimore was clearly the better team. They would have beaten TN 8 out of 10 times, but turnovers of course happen.  

Or they draft five difference makers on D this year with the haul they get from trading out of one, play ball control, and win with a dominant defense, going 13-4 and winning a SB. It's not like this hasn't almost happened multiple times in the past with Roman.

Almost happened. lmao.  I actually wanted to quote you earlier.

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I dunno, CB; I'm less about long term development than winning a SB. And the 2019 Ravens as well as the 49ers every year between 2011 and 2013 were SB caliber teams without a doubt. To put it a different way, what Josh is doing at age 30 doesn't mean much to me if he brings us a SB victory this year.

 

I think @GunnerBill is absolutely right about the Bears, and I'd add another reason. 75-plus years is a long time, and that's been about how long the Bears have lacked anything approaching an elite passing game. If any team is cursed with regard to passing QBs, it is the Bears. They should accept that they can't change fate and instead go all out to be a Ravens-like running QB team with Roman calling the shots. 

GRo has never developed a QB long-term or won a Superbowl so you don't have to worry about either!

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think they need to make the choice of "Is Justin Fields capable of running an NFL offense?"  If the answer is "we don't know," then you run an NFL offense and see what happens. If the answer is "no," then you dump his ass and draft Bryce Young or whoever.

 

Skip the entire Roman option entirely. Just a waste of time.

 

The Ravens is an NFL offense. So was the 9ers. What you mean is can he run a high flying pass first offense that the elite guys can. No he probably can't. But it isn't that or nothing, that is my point. Too many fans have convinced themselves it is.

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Almost happened. lmao.  I actually wanted to quote you earlier.

GRo has never developed a QB long-term or won a Superbowl so you don't have to worry about either!

Why "lmao"? Do you deny that they almost got to the SB in 2011 and 2013 and almost won in 2012? And when I say "almost", I really mean it -- games coming down to one play at the end, basically. 

 

Btw, if you thinking I'm advocating hiring Roman, you're missing my point. This has nothing to do with the Bills and everything to do with his actual record.

Edited January 19, 2023 by dave mcbride

[ArtVandalay]

Greg Roman to Chicago if they stick with Fields, book it. Read option, half field read offense works great for a year or two then flames out, always does. 

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Ravens is an NFL offense. So was the 9ers. What you mean is can he run a high flying pass first offense that the elite guys can. No he probably can't. But it isn't that or nothing, that is my point. Too many fans have convinced themselves it is.

How could a Bills fan say this?  We have watched our franchise change over night because of one single player. We weren't ass every year because of Chan or Jauron or Chris Kelsay or Dareus.  We were trash because we didn't have a franchise QB. 

 

Does that mean that every team needs to rebuild until they get a Mahomes or an Allen?  No, of course not. 

 

But how about a guy like Dak?  Or Kirk Cousins? Guys that can win games with their arm. That aren't instant losers if they have to throw 40x a game.

 

What these perennial bad teams should figure out is if their young QB can be "the guy" worth the second contract. Hiring Greg Roman screws that up. Even you yourself are sitting here saying that Lamar NEEDS Roman's system.

 

I made this post below. This is what will happen.

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The year is 2025.  Justin Fields has throw for 3300 yards 22 TD's and 12 INT's the last two year in Greg Roman's system.  Rushes for 700 yards and 6 TD's. The Bears win 10 games each year, making the playoffs once and losing in the Wild Card round. Fields wants top 5 QB money. Contract negotiations start breaking down (it's the system, his numbers aren't that impressive etc etc.)

 

TBD makes the topic.  "Should the Bears pay Fields?"

 

And around and around we go on the Greg Roman carousel.

 

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Why "lmao"? Do you deny that they almost got to the SB in 2011 and 2013 and almost won in 2012? And when I say "almost", I really mean it -- games coming down to one play at the end, basically. 

Horseshoes. Hand grenades.

Edited January 19, 2023 by FireChans

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Because in every one of those years, the final playoff games came down to essentially last-play situations: a weird muff in 2011 in OT, a fourth down miss from within the 10 yard line with a few seconds to go in 2012, and a ridiculously good Richard Sherman breakup of a pass to Crabtree in the EZ on the final play. They played evenly with their opponents in all of those games, and in 2011 and 2013, their opponents went on to win SBs. Yes, the Niners had good defenses, but -- for instance -- the Niners run game in the 2012 SB was unstoppable once it got rolling late in the game. They could easily have won that game. Indeed, on the third down play on their final possession, the play was there but Kaepernick missed seeing the crosser, who would have scored. 

 

In 2019, the Ravens put up 530 yards but had a staggering number of turnovers and the like. Tennessee literally couldn't stop them and Baltimore was clearly the better team. They would have beaten TN 8 out of 10 times, but turnovers of course happen.  

 

Wow.  I'm struggling to process this viewpoint.  All I'll say is that in general, I don't believe "turnovers happen".  Yes, there are fluky plays, but in general, they either result from a mistake on the part of the players/team committing it, or high-level play on the part of the team recovering it.

 

I'm sorry, but if you can't score a TD until the 4th Q which was the Ravens situation in 2019, I don't know how you logic "they were clearly the better team".  Tennessee did stop them; they stopped them with a punt and 4 turnovers on downs in addition to the interceptions and the fumbles.  Meanwhile Tennessee ran all over them and Tannehill had a low-production, but high efficiency day with 3 TD and enough pass game to keep the run cranking.

 

I think that's "if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle" logic.  I guess, but she doesn't and she isn't.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

How could a Bills fan say this?  We have watched our franchise change over night because of one single player. We weren't ass every year because of Chan or Jauron or Chris Kelsay or Dareus.  We were trash because we didn't have a franchise QB. 

 

Does that mean that every team needs to rebuild until they get a Mahomes or an Allen?  No, of course not. 

 

But how about a guy like Dak?  Or Kirk Cousins? Guys that can win games with their arm. That aren't instant losers if they have to throw 40x a game.

 

What these perennial bad teams should figure out is if their young QB can be "the guy" worth the second contract. Hiring Greg Roman screws that up. Even you yourself are sitting here saying that Lamar NEEDS Roman's system.

 

I made this post below. This is what will happen.

 

Horseshoes. Hand grenades.

So the early 90s Bills are worthless then? "Win it all or you don't count" seems like a pretty extreme way to view the world, but maybe that's just me.

[The Jokeman]

27 minutes ago, H2o said:

I'm not sold they don't move on from him this year. There is no time now they could greater maximize their return for him. I am thinking they wil FT him and then trade him to the highest bidder.

I'd love to see the Jets trade for him and then hire Roman as their OC lol

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

but with it looking likely that Jackson won't return, that scheme is a non-starter for any other QB.

Really? Justin Fields? That might be a fit. 
Kyler Murray once he’s healthy? Ryan Tannehill wherever he may go? Tim Tebow (hehe)

There’s a lot of teams with limited (at least at this point in their careers) QBs that would become better immediately with Roman as OC. it may be his fate that his ability to make the most out of limited QBs will doom him to working with them forever. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, FireChans said:

How could a Bills fan say this?  We have watched our franchise change over night because of one single player. We weren't ass every year because of Chan or Jauron or Chris Kelsay or Dareus.  We were trash because we didn't have a franchise QB. 

 

Does that mean that every team needs to rebuild until they get a Mahomes or an Allen?  No, of course not. 

 

But how about a guy like Dak?  Or Kirk Cousins? Guys that can win games with their arm. That aren't instant losers if they have to throw 40x a game.

 

 

Kap went to a Superbowl. Lamar won an MVP. What makes them less satisfying as an alternative to a true elite guy than Dak or Kirk? 

[newcam2012]

23 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

If Dorsey and Brady move on I would definitely interview him as OC. Mike Shula is still on the staff with no rumors for interviews.

 

Roman could help develop an actual run game to compliment Josh Allen. Keep Mike Shula as a passing game coordinator to flesh out Roman's run concepts, and keep the passing attack JA and Diggs/Davis/Knox are familiar with. The offense would probably look more like Philly or Cincy than 'Josh do it all'.

 

It might force Buffalo to make some actual investments in the OL and be more productive with the RBs. I'd love to see what he could do with Cook, Singletary, or a Singletary like back-fill, McKenzie and a QB like Allen.

 

Roman has often made chicken salad with chicken sh!t.

Bring Roman aboard! 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Kap went to a Superbowl. Lamar won an MVP. What makes them less satisfying as an alternative to a true elite guy than Dak or Kirk? 

 

Going to the SB yes but if my teams claim to fame is my QB won MVP and 1 playoff game in 5 years then I am not that excited.

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Unless they get a QB that can pass outside the numbers - I don’t think it matters how much they invest in pass catchers.

 

I think they have seen exactly what they have in Lamar and they invested correctly - big time TEs and guys to the middle of the field.

 

Long term unless they are moving on - this is a bad decision for the future of the team.

 

 

 

I could be mistaken, but if you go look at the NFL Nexgen Stats charts, I think you'll see that Lamar has quietly but significantly improved his ability to pass outside the numbers.  So we'll see, if they keep Lamar but bring in someone who can design a more complete passing game and some better receivers.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Kap went to a Superbowl. Lamar won an MVP. What makes them less satisfying as an alternative to a true elite guy than Dak or Kirk? 

Kaep was out of the league 3 years later. Lamar went from MVP to pending FA.

 

You can't sit here in one breath saying that Lamar will struggle outside of Roman's system (when Lamar has already had two pretty mediocre years) and then in the other say that he's a better option than Dak.

 

If you truly believe that the best they can get out of Lamar is in Greg Roman's system as the 28th or 32nd passing offense, then you cannot think he's more valuable than Dak.

 

You also said they should trade Lamar and start over at the beginning of the topic!

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

So the early 90s Bills are worthless then? "Win it all or you don't count" seems like a pretty extreme way to view the world, but maybe that's just me.

They aren't worthless but I wouldn't say they had all the answers when it came to winning Superbowls either.

Edited January 19, 2023 by FireChans

[Bookie Man]

I don’t think KD is going anywhere yet. Next season though.. HE GONE. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Going to the SB yes but if my teams claim to fame is my QB won MVP and 1 playoff game in 5 years then I am not that excited.

 

But are they that much worse than the other viable players who are not elite.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But are they that much worse than the other viable players who are not elite.

 

As a fan I want to know my team can compete for a SB.  If I was a Ravens fan I wouldnt feel that at all. If they cant then I want them to try improve to someone who can.  Much like KC improved over Alex Smith who they were pretty competitive with but not competitive enough.

 

MVPs are fun little accolades but do nothing for me as a fan.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Scott7975