Bench Davis and start Brown!

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, ILBillsfan said:

Davis has over 800 yards, just some silly threads 

It is overblown, but there is a point to be made the yardage stands for itself. However, he cannot be dropping touchdown passes and hit him right square in the hands that’s the money play in the playoffs.

[ILBillsfan]

7 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Davis might honestly be the worst #2 of any team in the playoffs.

 

…which is not very encouraging. So tired of it being on Allen and Diggs all the time through the air and then once every 4-5 weeks Davis does something impersonating a #2.

 

Thankfully there has been more Knox in the second half of the season.

 

EDIT: and respectfully, fyi, Davis is the 87th leading receiver in the league with Allen at QB.

 

 

 

 

 

is the 87th ranked PFF WR becasue in yards for the season he is 33rd, i get he drops some passes but so does every WR.....He is very good run blocker as well.  The affinity for the posters on here that have this hate crush on Davis is unreal.  

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

It is overblown, but there is a point to be made the yardage stands for itself. However, he cannot be dropping touchdown passes and hit him right square in the hands that’s the money play in the playoffs.

That pass completion probabilty was  below 40% teh defender had something to do with it.  It wasn't just a hit you in the hands ball and you drop it ,,,,, again WR's all have drops

[BillsFan692]

Davis experiment over. Get him out of there at #2 

Edited January 9, 2023 by BillsFan692

[Straight Hucklebuck]

People have said it all year, it’s his catching technique.

 

The tries to basket catch everything and it hits his chest.

 

Todays dropped TD was a mirror image of the Jets 70-yarder. 
 

Ball gets into his chest.

 

And we know Gabe, he’s has to get by his man, he doesn’t make any contested catches or pluck/high-point the ball. 

[Dr.Sack]

Gabe should be on the Juggs machine all week. Catching all sorts of balls. Knox was able to improve, so can Davis.

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, ILBillsfan said:

is the 87th ranked PFF WR becasue in yards for the season he is 33rd, i get he drops some passes but so does every WR.....He is very good run blocker as well.  The affinity for the posters on here that have this hate crush on Davis is unreal.  

That pass completion probabilty was  below 40% teh defender had something to do with it.  It wasn't just a hit you in the hands ball and you drop it ,,,,, again WR's all have drops

 

It’s real, it’s well earned and it is woefully under what was expected going into the season and there is no good excuse for it, as well as giving him a pass on his drops is like saying it’s ok for a goalie to have a low save percentage.

 

70, 78, 82, 79, 73 and 68 are the #2 wide receiver totals by the AFC playoff teams.  

Edited January 9, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[familykwi]

I’d actually prefer to sit McKenzie

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, ILBillsfan said:

is the 87th ranked PFF WR becasue in yards for the season he is 33rd, i get he drops some passes but so does every WR.....He is very good run blocker as well.  The affinity for the posters on here that have this hate crush on Davis is unreal.  

That pass completion probabilty was  below 40% teh defender had something to do with it.  It wasn't just a hit you in the hands ball and you drop it ,,,,, again WR's all have drops

That ball absolutely should’ve been caught by Davis. It was into his body and good receivers catch that.

[Gunsgoodtime]

55 minutes ago, familykwi said:

I’d actually prefer to sit McKenzie

I agree.  Useless on the field as a Wr

53 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

That ball absolutely should’ve been caught by Davis. It was into his body and good receivers catch that.

It absolutely should have.  Thought so in the live play, then many replays confirmed it.  Just like the basket drop to him in the game to tie it and he drops it, never touched by the defender 

[BillsShredder83]

8 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Never said he was a legitimate #1

 

He's having an off year but he still has 836 yards in 15 games. I would think that's typical production for a #2 WR. 

Almost half of this has come from 2 games we won by 3+ scores im fairly certain.

 

That doesnt help our offense. We need consistency

[davefan66]

 Bease will need to step up.

 

Brown had a great catch for sure, doesn’t necessarily elevate him to number 2.

 

McKenzie.  Done with him. Bease should get his playing time for sure, but..

 

Shakir should have been developed better this year. Not sure if he had trouble getting open, running routes or blocking, but wish he had had more impact.  Seems over the last few games any pass to him was either a throw away over his head, or into traffic that most players would have trouble with.  His catch and YAC yesterday was nice. Exactly the type of play we need from him.

 

Davis.  Dude has the yips.  May be part of Allen’s struggles this year? Not able to depend on him when he wants? Can’t bench, he’s too good.  Can’t have him continue like he has though, dude has got to get better. Maybe if the team has an actual real week before a game, Josh and him can spend some time to try and get past this.

 

edit.  Dorsey needs to do better incorporating the run game and taking some pressure off Josh. Game was going bills way and Josh was still in shotgun throwing.  Need to run to kill clock.  Need to have an effective run game to open the pass game.

Edited January 9, 2023 by davefan66

[4th&long]

I’m all for replacing him. Clearly we all had expectations that were too high after his monster playoff game last year.

[Matt_In_NH]

I do think he needs to lose some play time, these drops can end a season, he seems to have lost confidence.   Davis works his butt off and is a great teammate, he does whatever it takes including being on the field almost every play and blocking well.  But if a receiver cannot receive that just does not work.

[Mr. WEO]

a new low here

[sunshynman]

He still has better numbers than last year. The problem was us thinking he would start catching everything throw to him because of last years playoffs. He's a #3 not a  #2. The mistake was not bringing in a true #2, And have a good problem if Davis did work out.

[Spiderweb]

15 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Does anyone know how fast Brown is, right now?

 

I would imagine he has lost a few steps; he did have a spectacular TD catch today though.

 

The team knows better than us how fast/slow he is; that could be a factor.

 

Replacing Davis is an off-season project IMO.

 

 

Well, he was able to burn the Pats DB. Looked pretty fast to me..

[pocoboy]

15 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Davis has had a terrible season. 

 

And I'm kinda sick of this "he's been hurt" narrative. It's been 3 months, if this was going to hamper a guy for that long, go to IR and get it right.

 

Part of reaching the Franchise QB contract portion of the build is trusting your draft picks to pick up the slack. The final playoff game left everyone assuming Davis would be fine, but he's not. You _have_ to address WR2 this offseason. If Davis "heals" and returns to his reliable self, then maybe you have a third outside WR who can offer flexibility in terms of injury or rotational depth.

 

If I'm McDermott, I'd be evaluating my WR Coach this offseason. It seems like they can bring in guys who have already been developed & they're fine, but I don't see a WR draft pick that has rounded into consistent form.

 

Davis should be embarrassed at his catch-to-target %.

Edited January 9, 2023 by pocoboy

[Fan in Chicago]

15 hours ago, peterpan said:

We can’t afford 2-3-4 drops a game out of Davis in the playoffs.  Brown has been here for a few weeks now, and should be up to speed.  His catch today proves he still has it.

 

give the reliable vet the start over the young guy with feet for hands.

I am not sure Brown's body and skills are up to the task of being elevated to #2. However, Davis' snap count should go down in favor of Brown and Shakir.

Allen has been focusing on the short and medium passing game (which is very good, @Beck Water), but we saw yesterday that the dagger is slammed in with the deep balls.  

[Shemp]

If Davis' ankle is still bothering him, I don't see how you can rely on him to make those tightrope catches on the sideline. Davis seems limited by something or other. The drops have been mystifying. His catching technique is different than other receivers and maybe the coaches are trying to change this but something's up in his head. Since Allen got hurt, the whole passing game seems off. Allen has been throwing more than his share of bad balls and, more bothersome, ignoring the wide open guy for the riskier chunk play. 

[ILBillsfan]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

That ball absolutely should’ve been caught by Davis. It was into his body and good receivers catch that.

will be good to see the all 22, think it will shed some light to thep ost. it from some different angles. I'm not going to get into pissing matches on a dropped ball that was contested imo they happen even wide open passes get dropped

 

Important factors Davis is a great run blocker over 800 yards recieving 33rd in the NFL and is the BBMB beat up person for some fans that are making silly statements that John Brown should be starting over him..oh 13-3 playoff home games pretty good season ...Go Bills!!!!

[OldTimer1960]

16 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

I'm not ready to give up on Davis yet, I agree with the rotation with Brown however. What Davis did last year can't be dismissed just like that, I'm willing to see how he does in the playoffs

This is probably wise.  Just look at how well Zay Jones is doing in Jacksonville.  He had major drop issues here and improved for the Raiders, but still didn't look like a really good player, but now 82 catches on the season - still not a ton of yards, but he has become a reliable NFL receiver.  

[T master]

Yes we are in the play offs & 1 drop could be the difference between a W & a L so if they were to sit Davis in some kind of motivational move which McD has done before it wouldn't hurt my feelings but Davis has usually lifted his game during the play offs so hopefully he will get out of this funk now .

 

We can only hope he will be the guy he was when it comes to his ability to make the big catch when needed ...

[BearNorth]

One thing to consider before we send Davis "up in Smoke", he's probably our best run blocker among the WR group.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I do love Davis, but I do think he's best as WR #4. He has struggled as a #2

[pocoboy]

Just now, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I do love Davis, but I do think he's best as WR #4. He has struggled as a #2

 

Yeah I'm not sure he has the route precision & ability to separate against NFL CB talent. He looked at his absolute best when the safety had to make a choice.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I am not sure Brown's body and skills are up to the task of being elevated to #2. However, Davis' snap count should go down in favor of Brown and Shakir.

Allen has been focusing on the short and medium passing game (which is very good, @Beck Water), but we saw yesterday that the dagger is slammed in with the deep balls.  

 

Unsure why I'm being tagged here?

 

In case it wasn't noticed, Tee Higgins had a terrible, no-good, very bad day yesterday.  1 reception on 7 targets.

 

I think it's probable that he is still being affected by the Hamlin injury, and that several players on the Bills team are also being affected.   Davis 3 receptions on 10 targets indicate him as a candidate.  He's been catching much more reliably this back half of the season...except for (wait for it) the Week 11 NWE game which was similarly bad - so how he's being covered, and what type of routes/targets he's getting may just have an influence.

 

If he contributes nothing else, Nyheim Hines gave the Bills players a huge lift, and a gift, by showing them he would play still play absolutely fearless (and that good things would happen when he did)

Edited January 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

23 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

Yeah I'm not sure he has the route precision & ability to separate against NFL CB talent. He looked at his absolute best when the safety had to make a choice.

 

This, if you'll excuse me, rather echos the plaint made by cover1 and several others that Dorsey is doing less to scheme his guys open, but rather expecting the WR to win against coverage.  Diggs can.  McKenzie can if it's M2M and he's not held.  Obviously Davis can at times.

 

One reason the Bills moved on from Brown was that he suffers from the same problem McKenzie does - he can be neutralized by physical DB play and uncalled DH/DPI.  In theory, Davis size and strength should allow him to win those battles, but like Knox, he doesn't always.

 

The guy I'd actually like to see some more of is Morris.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[KDIGGZ]

Diggs, Beasley, Brown would be just as good as Davis or McKenzie if not better. And those are throwaway guys that nobody even wanted on their team that we signed on a whim. Makes you wonder how good our passing game could be if we actually had a couple of guys like Cinci or Miami 

[Fan in Chicago]

14 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Unsure why I'm being tagged here?

 

I tagged you because you have been pointing out an area of improvement for Allen - the short and medium passing game. I think he has made progress in the second half of the season. 

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I tagged you because you have been pointing out an area of improvement for Allen - the short and medium passing game. I think he has made progress in the second half of the season. 

 

Ah! Well, some good, some bad.  He's definitely taken a few more of the short options.  But he's still, at times, ignoring the short options to throw the ball into danger.  Throwing to a double-covered McKenzie when he had underneath options (at least 2) vs. Chicago would be one example of this.  And in last night's post-game presser he was basically chiding himself for getting away from throwing the ball into danger at Diggs.

 

If I figure out how to watch all-22 without paying NFL+ $25, I'm pretty sure I'd see open throws underneath on a few of those heaves to Davis.

 

So improvement, yes, but I don't think we're where we want to be yet.

[pocoboy]

25 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

This, if you'll excuse me, rather echos the plaint made by cover1 and several others that Dorsey is doing less to scheme his guys open, but rather expecting the WR to win against coverage.  Diggs can.  McKenzie can if it's M2M and he's not held.  Obviously Davis can at times.

 

What one would hope is that the "scheming guys open" bit is being back-pocketed to a point where it's absolutely crucial. And that time has come, most likely.

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

What one would hope is that the "scheming guys open" bit is being back-pocketed to a point where it's absolutely crucial. And that time has come, most likely.

 

I dunno.  I'm a big believer in "dance with what brung ya".   Scheming guys open typically involves precision and timing, stuff that's hard to practice during the dings and dents of the season.

 

I hope you're right.

 

1 hour ago, Blah Blah said:

If Davis' ankle is still bothering him, I don't see how you can rely on him to make those tightrope catches on the sideline. Davis seems limited by something or other. The drops have been mystifying. His catching technique is different than other receivers and maybe the coaches are trying to change this but something's up in his head. Since Allen got hurt, the whole passing game seems off. Allen has been throwing more than his share of bad balls and, more bothersome, ignoring the wide open guy for the riskier chunk play. 

 

If Davis ankle is still bothering him, it raises the question of whether he has the physical capabilities to play a season in the NFL because this would be the second season in a row that an early-season ankle injury which has not caused Davis to appear on injury report for literally months, has been raised on TBD as a hypothetical reason for Davis not performing as we would like to see.

 

Allen was ignoring open guys for riskier chunk plays before he got hurt.  Getting hurt did seem to increase his bad ball %

Edited January 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

35 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Diggs, Beasley, Brown would be just as good as Davis or McKenzie if not better. And those are throwaway guys that nobody even wanted on their team that we signed on a whim. Makes you wonder how good our passing game could be if we actually had a couple of guys like Cinci or Miami 

 

You're mistaken.  These guys weren't home sitting on their sofa because they still have the physical capability to play 70-80% of the snaps in an NFL game for 4 games.

 

In case it went unnoticed, Beasley didn't haul in an admittedly somewhat off ball from Josh that would have converted a key 3rd down on our 1st drive in the Bengals game and possibly scored - but Beasley of 2 years ago would absolutely have had the acceleration and athleticism to get there.

 

They are both there to be a 5th or 6th WR option and as "break glass in case of emergency"

 

In his post-game presser, Allen said that he threw to Brown because the safety went with McKenzie.  Having two speedy guys on the field at once enables some things like that.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[MarlinTheMagician]

I would work Brown in more evenly with Davis.  Different skill sets can diversify the offense.  I posted back on about December 16 that I thought Brown could really contribute because he was productive not that long ago, then hurt.  He runs quality routes and can stretch the D; and he catches the ball.  Gabe gives us a more physical presence and can block.  There is room for both, with Brown getting a bit more run.  Liked seeing a few more plays for Shakir too - he seems a RAC animal.

[HappyDays]

Not good enough:

 

 

[Drew21PA]

Feel he cost us the Dolphins game in Miami - that was huge

 

Dropped multiple Tds - ran wrong routes resulting in Picks....idk - i do blame him for quite a bit this season, but THE PLAYOFFS start a new season - hopefully he can take responsibility and step up

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Hate to say it but it seems like Brown wants it more.

 

Davis is just going through the motions.

[pocoboy]

9 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Hate to say it but it seems like Brown wants it more.

 

Davis is just going through the motions.

 

Man, can really tell a LOT from 7 plays.

[stlbills13]

Davis should see the field because he's a legit run blocker. But the targets may need to start going elsewhere. Maybe he flips the playoff switch again though. I still think he has a big moment in him in the playoffs

[ILBillsfan]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

That ball absolutely should’ve been caught by Davis. It was into his body and good receivers catch that.

After see ing the review from the backside agreed it should of been caught not sure why he hops there...Seems like he got caught up i need to jump to catch and then last minute oh craddle catch ...... etiehr 3way attack the ball with the hands Gabe catch it with your hands and it gets simpler

 

There do seem to be lapses but he is still a valuable piece on this team, and from the OP should not be replaced with John Brown  GO BILLS!!!!

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by ILBillsfan