Devin Singletary not scoring a TD with 34 seconds left

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, NUT said:

This is what bothers me. It sounds like Singletary decided to do this himself. Not good.

It didn't seem like that when McDermott was interviewed after the game.  Maybe I heard it wrong but he seemed like it had been discussed at the very least McDermott seemed quite happy about it.

[MRW]

3 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Some could ask the same question about listening to you, we were tied at the time and a kick is not a given.

 

Folks are making a good argument that you take the points.

 

So that begs the question why did they not take the points, but instead chose to lie down at the one yard line and risk a kick missing and going  into OT?

 

It's a legit question.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The truth is either call probably would've worked. I think it all hinges on how difficult you think the conditions made the FG. Would you agree that in normal weather conditions Singletary 100% should've gone down?

[Since1981]

McDermott said they practice singletary “no mas”. I don’t agree in this particular case. Guaranteed 6 pts :30 in snow, I would take the pts 
 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/12/18/sean-mcdermott-praises-devin-singletary-for-not-scoring-touchdown-on-final-carry/

 

frankly, this is the kind of coach argument I like. I’m literally disagreeing with what he did that worked. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Since1981

[Maine-iac]

Just now, WideNine said:

 

Even Allen admitted that he was bailed out and knew he was supposed to throw that ball quickly or throw it away to allow a kick before the half.

 

I think most of the negatives coming from former QB game commentators directed at Allen that sound like sour grapes is that Allen, more often than not, gets away with breaking all the rules.

 

Rules they could never have gotten away with breaking because Allen is a freak of nature.

 

 

 

I agree.  I was screaming at the TV, "what the hell are you doing", and then TD.  That said i saw Motor go down and I was like, that makes sense.  I get the logic.  When you've been beaten multiiple times in the last seconds of games you would rather have the ball in your hands as the last second ticks off.  It's essentially an extra point.

[newcam2012]

30 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's nice. Statistically you are wrong. Are you smarter than math? The chances of giving up a 80 yard TD in 34 seconds against noodle arm Tua is close to 0%, probably as high as 2%. The chances of making any FG of that length, roughly extra point distance, is around 93% on a good day so it's already a toss up in which option you choose, and then you add the slippery and harder ball and it makes the snap, hold, and kick much more difficult. It's really not close when you look at the analytics 

What did analytics say about Allen fumbling a QB sneak in the end zone? The best coaches can play the game by feel especially if he knows his team and the circumstances. Analytics never tell the whole story. Personally, I wanted the TD but I completely respect and understand the Bills decision to kick the FG. Bass knows how to kick in under those situations. It was a 25 harder and the wind was not a factor. Nevertheless, I was jumping up and down with anxiety prior to the winning kick. 

[WideNine]

Just now, MRW said:

 

The truth is either call probably would've worked. I think it all hinges on how difficult you think the conditions made the FG. Would you agree that in normal weather conditions Singletary 100% should've gone down?

 

Tough call as there have only been a very few cases where players have intentionally stopped before the goal line.

 

Certainly not enough times and situations to create any meaningful analytics.

 

In the absence of that you are left with coaches going with their hunches.

 

It was clear that McD had more confidence that they could run off the clock and that Bass would kick the game winner than he had with us scoring and leaving Miami 30+ seconds and I think they still had 1 or 2 timeouts left.

 

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, JTown said:

I don't get it.  Yes it worked in our favor this time however,  with the field conditions deteriorating.   The field goal was NOT a given.   What would we be feeling like today if Bass slipped,  missed or the FG was blocked.  IMO,  I would have liked to see Singletary score and defend the 34 seconds in those weather conditions. 

 

I thought I saw Singletary running the ball and going down, not McD??

 

Or did McD call the entire offense over at the 2 minute warning and tell them, what ever you do, don't score?

 

Having said that I do think it was risky not scoring due to conditions, but that was on Singletary and/or the guys in the huddle.

[MRW]

1 minute ago, WideNine said:

 

Tough call as there have only been a very few cases where players have intentionally stopped before the goal line.

 

Certainly not enough times and situations to create any meaningful analytics.

 

In the absence of that you are left with coaches going with their hunches.

 

It was clear that McD had more confidence that they could run off the clock and that Bass would kick the game winner than he had with us scoring and leaving Miami 30+ seconds and I think they still had 1 or 2 timeouts left.

 

 

 

 

Maybe that's where we differ, to me it is absolutely a no-brainer in pristine conditions. The only thing that gave me pause last night was the weather.

[Doc]

It was the right decision.  It looked like Devin, after downshifting so as to not score a TD, looked to see where the first down marker was and was trying to get past it, but the Dols defenders got him before he could get there.  No harm no foul as the Bills were able to get the clock to 3 seconds and kick the FG.  And if they can't make that FG in the dying moments of a bad weather game in Buffalo...

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I thought I saw Singletary running the ball and going down, not McD??

 

Or did McD call the entire offense over at the 2 minute warning and tell them, what ever you do, don't score?

 

Having said that I do think it was risky not scoring due to conditions, but that was on Singletary and/or the guys in the huddle.

 

Good question about maybe Singletary acted on his own.

 

No way to know for sure. Seems like a hell of a risky move for a player to decide on his own.

 

I could see the offense being told to leave as little time on the clock as possible as we still had one timeout to stop the clock.

 

 

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Yeah, I was in the "he should have scored the TD" camp for the reasons you gave. Ideally, you want to leave no time on the clock, but this ain't Mahomes we're dealing with. I doubt Tua could engineer a miraculous TD drive in the snow with 30 seconds and no TOs.

 

 

I mean Joe freakin Flacco did it earlier this year to beat the Browns I think? I didn’t like it either, but I understand the thought process. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Good question about maybe Singletary acted on his own.

 

No way to know for sure. Seems like a hell of a risky move for a player to decide on his own.

 

I could see the offense being told to leave as little time on the clock as possible as we still had one timeout to stop the clock.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah could see the players talking about it in the huddle.

[WideNine]

17 minutes ago, RJ (not THAT RJ) said:

 

It is a legit question. It is not a legit statement to say that the decision to play for the kick shows lack of faith in the defense. That’s just people looking to carp about McD. 

 

I have no problem saying I am not 100% confident that our secondary would not give up a long pass for a score.

 

Guess I am the only one that has seen them do this... recently too.

 

 

 

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I have no problem saying I am not 100% confident that our secondary would not give up a long pass for a score.

 

Guess I am the only one that has seen them do this... recently too.

 

 

 

you can say it. Heck, I’ll say it too. But we can’t say we know what McD was thinking. And we certainly can’t jump to the conclusion that he lacked confidence in his D when he made his decision. 

[WideNine]

18 minutes ago, MRW said:

 

Maybe that's where we differ, to me it is absolutely a no-brainer in pristine conditions. The only thing that gave me pause last night was the weather.

 

I think some folks are confused that I am panning the decision.

 

I am not.

 

Just trying to think about what MAY have gone into that decision being made.

 

Of course we don't know for sure unless McD actually came out and said something to clarify his thoughts or direction given on that series.

 

I have not seen any consistency in this team's ability to break up the long passes ( think of all the 3rd and longs we surrender) and Miami has two solid burners with good hands.

 

I factor leaving them time on the clock with that in mind too.

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by WideNine

[Doc]

Players are coached to do what Devin did.  Some listen, some go for the stats.  Again it was the right play to ensure that regulation ended on a FG try.

[K-9]

Ask Nick Chubb if he thinks Motor made the right decision. 

[WideNine]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

Players are coached to do what Devin did.  Some listen, some go for the stats.  Again it was the right play to ensure that regulation ended on a FG try.

 

I think it was the right decision because of how our defense was playing and because Miami has two really good deep threat receivers that can high point and catch contested balls.

 

The commentators last night were surprised by the move so I am not sure it is what all players are coached to do. And one played the game.

 

Then again it was Sanchez whose claim to fame is the butt fumble.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by WideNine

[Casey D]

3 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Regardless of your thoughts whether he should have scored the TD, it was an absolutely bonehead play to go down short of the first. 

This post convinces me you are just a troll.  The rhetorical question to you post is Why?  What would have first down have gained that made it a bonehead play?  Think carefully.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, pennstate10 said:

Let’s be clear, I doubt this was a thought that just popped into Singletarys head during the run. Given that it was an iffy decision, I’m sure that MCD said don’t score, no matter what. They’re not going to leave that decision to a 3th year RB. 
 

For the record, I thought it was a bad decision. You play to win the game. I saw psu lose a game against bama in exactly this way. Kicker missed from the 5 yd line as time ran out. 
 

and this game had a wintry mix. A gutsy, but unwise call in my opinion. 

I agree this came from the coach , but there’s nothing iffy about it. This isn’t college football either. You expect a routine kick to be made. You run the clock down and win the game; take many variables out of the equation and don’t give MIA an opportunity. 

[aceman_16]

2 minutes ago, Casey D said:

This post convinces me you are just a troll.  The rhetorical question to you post is Why?  What would have first down have gained that made it a bonehead play?  Think carefully.

Good play....would have been MUCH better if he did it after he got a first down.

[Casey D]

1 minute ago, aceman_16 said:

Good play....would have been MUCH better if he did it after he got a first down.

What?

[Low Positive]

Just now, aceman_16 said:

Good play....would have been MUCH better if he did it after he got a first down.

Why? It was a second down run. It forced the Fins to take their final TO. Then the Bills took a knee on 3rd and ran the clock down before kicking the FG on 4th. What difference does it make if they kick on second down or forth down?

[Big Turk]

McD trusts his players to execute properly in all situations and conditions. That's what I took away from it.That type of confidence in your players goes a long way in the locker room.

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

Why? It was a second down run. It forced the Fins to take their final TO. Then the Bills took a knee on 3rd and ran the clock down before kicking the FG on 4th. What difference does it make if they kick on second down or forth down?

 

Because they could have rekicked if there was an issue on the kick...oh wait...there would have been zero on the clock. Not sure what the poster is talking about either. It was irrelevant.

[MRW]

4 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

Good play....would have been MUCH better if he did it after he got a first down.

 

How?

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, Casey D said:

This post convinces me you are just a troll.  The rhetorical question to you post is Why?  What would have first down have gained that made it a bonehead play?  Think carefully.

In that situation (i.e. with Miami only having one timeout left), the first down meant nothing. They still would’ve run just one more play and then called the time out with 2 seconds.  If Miami had had 2 or 3 timeouts, it would’ve been a boneheaded play. 

[Bob Jones]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

McD trusts his players to execute properly in all situations and conditions. That's what I took away from it.That type of confidence in your players goes a long way in the locker room.

 

Because they could have rekicked if there was an issue on the kick...oh wait...there would have been zero on the clock. Not sure what the poster is talking about either. It was irrelevant.

You must have missed this, which was posted in this thread earlier:

 

The most obvious answer is that they wouldn't be forced to kick the FG on 4th down. Get the 1st down, run a play (same play they ran on 3rd down), then stop the clock with the TO at about 10 seconds and kick the FG. That way, if there was a bad snap, a bad handle by Martin, or a slip/bad approach by Bass, they'd have a second chance at the FG. The latter would leave about 4-5 seconds (if the first FG try is good) on the clock. Then squib the kickoff and it's over.

[ArtVandalay]

23 minutes ago, Casey D said:

This post convinces me you are just a troll.  The rhetorical question to you post is Why?  What would have first down have gained that made it a bonehead play?  Think carefully.

Dude, take your own advice.  Maybe you are just closed minded and lack strategic thinking. Don't know. Use your brain, it isn't that hard...

 

The run was on 2nd, Miami used their last TO. Buffalo kneeled on 3rd, took their 2nd TO.

 

You now have 4th Down, in severe weather conditions for the snap, hold, and approach by the kicker.  If something goes wrong you have no room for error, game goes to overtime. 

 

If you took 1 more step forward and took the free first down, the FG would have been on 2nd down, if something went wrong with the snap, hold, footing of Bass, you could have tucked the ball down,  call your final TO, then kick again. 

 

Class dismissed. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Tough call.  Does someone have access to pwin data for that situation?   Both ways is huge percent you win so they likely wi either way.  Even in those conditions you should be able to assume you make a 25 yarder and the fish have no chance to touch the ball.  I was good with it. 

[ArtVandalay]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

In that situation (i.e. with Miami only having one timeout left), the first down meant nothing. They still would’ve run just one more play and then called the time out with 2 seconds.  If Miami had had 2 or 3 timeouts, it would’ve been a boneheaded play. 

Doc, it's about providing the Bills room for error. You have severe weather conditions, anything goes wrong with the snap, hold, footing of Bass you are screwed.  

 

If you took the free first down, you kick the FG on 2nd. If something is wrong with the snap/ hold/ footing you tuck the ball down, kill the play call TO, then kick on 3rd.

 

You give yourself room for error in the extreme weather conditions. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[Peter]

The choice was scoring and absolutely guarantying taking the lead (and the only downside is the Dolphins somehow tie the game with 34 seconds left in a snowstorm)

 

v.

 

Taking the chance that we could not convert the field goal in a snowstorm.

 

The question answers itself.

 

In some ways, McClappy is a very good coach . . . in others (to borrow a quote from someone else wrongfully directed to another coach, McCoach is "extremely frustrating."

 

We are all very lucky to have Josh Allen . . . especially McD.

[MarkyMannn]

Take the TD. Fish get the ball back and Tyreek takes a slant to the house. Then Bills lose in OT.  Then we could complain today why DS didn't fall at the 3.  

 

Reading the board today didn't know I was supposed to be so angry with a win smh

Edited December 18, 2022 by MarkyMannn

[K-9]

23 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Why? It was a second down run. It forced the Fins to take their final TO. Then the Bills took a knee on 3rd and ran the clock down before kicking the FG on 4th. What difference does it make if they kick on second down or forth down?

That’s why what Motor did was so strategic; it forced Miami to burn their last TO instead of us kicking off to Miami with 30 seconds left and them still having that TO on offense. The decision not to score took away any control Miami might hope to have. 

[TheBrownBear]

It was the right play at the time and it helped seal our victory.  Sanchez is a complete moron and spewed nonsense the entire evening, so when he started going off on Singletary, I knew for certain it was the right play by Devin.  When the Bills ran it to zero, Sanchez abruptly changed course and said the Dolphins should have pulled Singletary into the end zone to get the ball back.

 

Bottom line - this is not your father's NFL.  Teams can move the ball 80 yards in the blink of an eye these days.  30 seconds, two timeouts and Hill and Waddle vs. having to make an old school extra point length FG from your kicker's preferred hashmark?  Seems like an easy decision to me.

Edited December 18, 2022 by TheBrownBear

[WideNine]

3 minutes ago, MarkyMannn said:

Take the TD. Fish get the ball back and Tyreek takes a slant to the house. Then Bills lose in OT.  Then we could complain today why DS didn't fall at the 3

 

Sadly, I have no problems envisioning that scenario.

 

 

[KHAN]

27 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

Good play....would have been MUCH better if he did it after he got a first down.

OK. So you obviously are confused about the down and time on the clock. The Singletary run was on second down. Miami called their last time out. We called a kneel down on 3rd down and ran the clock down to 2 seconds. Kicked the field goal to win.

Kicking on 2nd down or 4th down wouldn't have made any difference.

[wjag]

4 hours ago, chongli said:

[I am sure this has been mentioned elsewhere (the post game thread is way too long for me to read through), but it might be a topic that deserves its own thread. A lot of people are talking about it, but mods feel free to merge this.]

 

I saw the game but did not listen to the NFL Network call. Apparently, Mark Sanchez was critical of Motor's decision to kneel at the four yard line. I will admit I was miffed when I saw the play. My thinking was it is a tie game in very icy conditions. In such conditions, you take the given TD rather than relying on a last-second FG where anything can go wrong (just look at what happened to Justin Tucker yesterday). Yes, I know that would leave Miami 34 seconds and a time out left for the potential tying (or winning) TD, but it is going to be a very hard thing to do. Yes, the Bills did have KC do it to them twice: 13 seconds and a similar thing against them this season at the end of the first half, and Buffalo did it to Minnesota to end the second half this year too, but I still consider it a fluke thing.

 

Still, I can understand the reasoning the other way. Miami has Tyreek and Jaylen, and a defender could just as well slip against them and give up the tying (or winning) TD. And a close FG, even in these situations, is still a relative gimme.

 

It's a tough call, and I will have to side with McD's judgment. He said in the article he has coached his team for this situation, calling it "no mas". Devin, to this credit, knew what to do!

 

In the comments to the article below, almost all of the people were against Buffalo not coring the TD in a tie game in icy conditions, saying the field goal was not a given (although the comments voting was about even). The twitter comments were a little more positive. They said if you have the lead, then sure, but take the points in a tie game in such conditions. They also said if Bass-o-matic missed the FG and the Dolphins went on to win in OT, people would be angry at Motor for costing us the game and first place in the AFC.

 

 

 

Brilliant...  I believed it at the time...  And I believed it today..   Don't give them the ball back.  Force them to burn their time outs.  Brilliant.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Unselfish play by an unselfish player. 
 

Singletary has turned into a very smart RB who understands the game. He will get a nice payday this summer, but I’d love to see him back. 

[MJS]

It was perfectly reasonable and turned out well for the Bills.

 

Better to run out the clock and trust your players to get a very manageable field goal. And that's exactly what happened.

 

All of this criticism for the coaches and play calling is getting ridiculous. This might be the best team we've ever had.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, stevestojan said:

It seemed pretty slick when Bass dove and slid for about 8 yards. 

 

Sliding on a wet jersey and planting a cleat are different.