Orlovsky: Bills aren't as talented offensively as we thought

[H2o]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

We need help on OL and WR.

 

Which makes me believe that we have to re-sign/extend Poyer, Edmunds, and Oliver. We just can't afford to create any more holes on defense that necessitate a top 100 pick on defense. Being able to somehow retain Philips and Lawson would be a huge bonus.

 

Buffalo needs to grab a WR and 2 OL in the fist 3 rounds this offseason. 

I agree on keeping Poyer and Edmunds. We don't have to worry about Oliver until 2024 because 2023 is 5th year option. JP is on a two year deal so will be here next year as well. Lawson should be able to be retained relatively cheap I would imagine. The main thing that HAS to be upgraded for Josh is the OL. He's running for his life more often than not, on basically every play. Yes I want another WR, but we HAVE to fix the OL. If it wasn't for Josh's mobility, they would be seen as one of the worst units in the NFL. 

[Boatdrinks]

18 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

Dorsey seems to be on tilt. The offense is struggling to find a rhythm, and instead of taking the easy first downs, he calls a 5 step drop on 3rd and 2 yesterday. 7 step drops on 3rd and 9.

 

Let's get into a rhythm first before taking those shots. Earlier in the season, Dorsey seemed to have a better feel for the game and how to set up plays. These last few weeks he seems like he's pulling plays out of a hat.

Or somewhere else…. He needs to do better and soon

[Straight Hucklebuck]

39 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

I love how ESPN comes to the party in December like they are breaking a story here. Thanks Dan! 👏

 

This is why many fans saw the need for the Bills to start running the ball to keep this offense more on a schedule. 

 

This is why when WGR keeps banging the drum to pass-pass-pass-pass, fans say we do need to run the ball.

 

It's disappointing that Cook continues to come and go. 14 carries for 64 yards against the Patriots, yesterday he got 4 carries, many of them late. 

 

In terms of the pass game, all the Bills can do is just drill, drill, drill with the guys they have. Dawson Knox is not suddenly going to become the second option at 80-100 yards per game.

 

The Bills haven't tried a deep shot to Gabe Davis since the Allen 70-yarder against the Jets. 

 

The Bills need to run the ball more, and stay out of 3rd-10+. 

 

 

 

[WideNine]

14 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

We get every team's A game.

 
The Jets are an elite Defense.  
 

The Packers have an elite Secondary.  
 

Detroit has 1 loss since Halloween (us down Dawkins and Morse). 
 

We curb stomped New England.  
 

The Vikings choke should have never happened and Allen coming in with the elbow sprain doesn’t have 2 turnovers (the fumble and the OT INT where the play call was terrible and essentially green lit him to go hero ball). 
 

We handled Cleveland no problem.  Motor and Cook 170 yards rushing.  31 points.  
 

We just played a top 3 D in awful conditions and did what we needed to do - took no chances because the D had the game in control.  Still scored 20 points on just 50 offensive plays - bc too many 3rd and longs and drops —

 

 

Which leads to THE reason anyone would doubt this offense.   The RBs are underwhelming and scare no one.  
 

Against all the defenses just mentioned above if you can stop our running game with just 5-6 in the box and have a great secondary you can absolutely slow us down some.  

 

Running with Singletary/Moss for 3 years - the decision was made to not use draft capital on an RB or cap space.  This offense is all Josh.  It’s not too much unlike KC.  But their oline is better running the ball.  

 

I agree with pretty much everything Coach said. 

 

I do temper my disappointment with the offense by considering how little the Jets were able to do against our defense and I don't think Lafleur is that shabby as a young OC 

 

I don't know if teams consistently stop our running game. Some stops yes, but we give up far too often and just go empty sets before establishing any rhythm.

 

Most teams keep pounding the rock just to keep opposing defenses honest and QBs upright, or god forbid to run out the clock when nursing a 2 score lead late in a bad weather game.

 

Not Dorsey. He can be stubbornly ineffective. Not that I was opposed that much to the boot leg toss to Knox.

 

Allen does not roll out to that side much and it was setup perfectly off of play action. It was wide open, but the drops, the drops, and the drops.

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

23 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Every legit contender:

 

 

Sanders/Hurts 

CMC

Zeke/Pollard 

Dalvin Cook 

 

Mixon/Perine

Ekeler 

Pacheko/McKinnon

 

 

 

Devin Singletary/James Cook

 

 

 

Yea.  It’s Running Back.  

Sure….you’d like to talk about contenders…. How about we talk about champions.  You know, the team that actually wins the super bowl.  
 

 

[BigDingus]

I feel like some of that is Dorsey's offense & the team not being quite on the same page as they were under Daboll. 

 

The O-line still isn't good imo, just serviceable. Josh also hasn't been as patient with taking what the defense gives him, leading to go falling back into old tendencies.

 

Biggest sore spot is still redzone offense.  

Turnovers & inability to score TDs has helped keep lesser teams in many games against us.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

I agree on keeping Poyer and Edmunds. We don't have to worry about Oliver until 2024 because 2023 is 5th year option. JP is on a two year deal so will be here next year as well. Lawson should be able to be retained relatively cheap I would imagine. The main thing that HAS to be upgraded for Josh is the OL. He's running for his life more often than not, on basically every play. Yes I want another WR, but we HAVE to fix the OL. If it wasn't for Josh's mobility, they would be seen as one of the worst units in the NFL. 

 

 

I believe that Philips 2 year deal is a void year. Spotrac has him listed as an UFA for 2023. So we will be taking a cap hit for him but as of now is not on the roster for 2023 without a new contract. 

About OL, that is why I said 2 OL in the first 3 rounds. Losing Morse will be huge if he doesn't re-sign or retire. I have said for a bit, if the Bills find a LT they love, they shouldn't hesitate to move Dawkins inside. They can upgrade both positions with one draft pick in that scenario. 

[jahnyc]

Our offense would be awful without Allen.  His ability to run, make difficult passes and improvise is why we have any offense success at all.

 

Watching the Chargers yesterday was interesting.  Herbert had a great game playing behind an awful o-line, but he had some really good skill players that made plays when it mattered.  We really only have Diggs, and our skill positions (and o-line) do need an upgrade.

 

Cook has been a disappointment because he seems to lack the outside speed that I thought was one of the reasons we were drafting him in the second round.  He just doesn't look fast when he plays.  McKenzie needs to be replaced as the starting slot receiver.  He is too inconsistent and his drops yesterday hurt the team.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

*10-3 with the #1 spot in the AFC

*2nd most yards per game in the league.

*4th highest scoring offense in the league this season. (2.5 points per game behind the leader)

 

I would love to see the Bills score 40 points every game and never punt.  I'll hold off on panicking for now though.

 

 

[Antonio]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

 

Do you think this offense is better or worst than last yeras offense?

[Charles Romes]

Not unlike the chiefs who have Mahomes and Kelce and then a bunch of jags on offense

Edited December 12, 2022 by Charles Romes

[C.Biscuit97]

I mean it’s kind of true. I do r watch the all 22 but are our receivers not getting separation. Or is Allen locked in Diggs. Definitely Davis has been a disappointment. And McKenzie is showing why he’s never had a big role for any team. 
 

the thing that really drives me crazy is the Jets 4th string rb might be better than our guys. The one thing the Bills could always find when they were terrible is an rb. Crazy 

[Einstein]

This tends to happen when you spend the bulk of your resources on defense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Charles Romes said:

Not unlike the chiefs who have Mahomes and Kelce and then a bunch of jags on offense

But the major difference is the Chiefs offense is getting better. Maybe it’s just the Allen injury but this offense has been off for like a month now. 

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I love how ESPN comes to the party in December like they are breaking a story here. Thanks Dan! 👏

 

This is why many fans saw the need for the Bills to start running the ball to keep this offense more on a schedule. 

 

This is why when WGR keeps banging the drum to pass-pass-pass-pass, fans say we do need to run the ball.

 

It's disappointing that Cook continues to come and go. 14 carries for 64 yards against the Patriots, yesterday he got 4 carries, many of them late. 

 

In terms of the pass game, all the Bills can do is just drill, drill, drill with the guys they have. Dawson Knox is not suddenly going to become the second option at 80-100 yards per game.

 

The Bills haven't tried a deep shot to Gabe Davis since the Allen 70-yarder against the Jets. 

 

The Bills need to run the ball more, and stay out of 3rd-10+. 

 

 

 

The Bills just don’t have the OL to run the ball at will when they want to. The backs are pretty mediocre too. They can win matchups vs certain teams and not vs others. They need to stay in good down and distance , but that is more difficult without a reliable ground attack. Not sure how much of this can / will change this season. They’ll have to win with what they’ve got. 

[Low Positive]

11 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

I feel like some of that is Dorsey's offense & the team not being quite on the same page as they were under Daboll. 

 

The O-line still isn't good imo, just serviceable. Josh also hasn't been as patient with taking what the defense gives him, leading to go falling back into old tendencies.

 

Biggest sore spot is still redzone offense.  

Turnovers & inability to score TDs has helped keep lesser teams in many games against us.

At this point last year, Daboll's offense was an absolute mess. 

[Big Turk]

40 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Yet, the Bills are 10-3 while playing C+ football.

 

It’s pretty obvious the Bills are just trying to get to the post season at this point.

 

It should be terrifying to other teams they are 10-3 with losses coming by a combined 8 points...one in a game where the heat and 12 starters out by the end of the game doomed them as much as them leaving 24+ points on the field. The other 2 coming with double digit leads blown, and one in ridiculous fashion.  

 

This is just a damn good team that pretty much is undefeated when they aren't doing stupid things to beat themselves,

Edited December 12, 2022 by Big Turk

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

*10-3 with the #1 spot in the AFC

*2nd most yards per game in the league.

*4th highest scoring offense in the league this season. (2.5 points per game behind the leader)

 

I would love to see the Bills score 40 points every game and never punt.  I'll hold off on panicking for now though.

 

 

Many of those numbers were accumulated earlier in the season, to be fair. Offensive production has fallen off greatly the last 5 or 6 games. Not a good trend heading toward playoff football. 

[Process]

5 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Not unlike the chiefs who have Mahomes and Kelce and then a bunch of jags on offense

They have a better o line and Andy Ried which makes a huge difference 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But the major difference is the Chiefs offense is getting better. Maybe it’s just the Allen injury but this offense has been off for like a month now. 

 

Mahomes almost gave the game away with 3!!!! INT's yesterday in a game they led 27-0 at one point against the worst offense in football by a mile.

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, Antonio said:

 

Do you think this offense is better or worst than last yeras offense?

Depends on what version of this offense you're talking about.  Are you talking about the pre-bye week offense or what we've seen post-bye?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

The Bills just don’t have the OL to run the ball at will when they want to. The backs are pretty mediocre too. They can win matchups vs certain teams and not vs others. They need to stay in good down and distance , but that is more difficult without a reliable ground attack. Not sure how much of this can / will change this season. They’ll have to win with what they’ve got. 

Singletary is averaging 4.4 ypc. 

 

Cook is averaging 5.1 ypc. 

 

Allen is averaging 6.3 ypc. 

 

Singletary runs for 16-yards and sees 7 carries the rest of the day. 

 

The Bills don't make any effort to stay with a semblance of a run game for all 4-quarters despite being up most of the game. 

[NoSaint]

Yesterday was bad weather, penalties, drops and not particularly inspiring play calling… 

 

but also until we figure out the Gabe Davis issue I’m not sure the offense reaches its potential. Whether it’s his skill set, injury we don’t know about or scheme - he needs to be a more complete contributor at WR2 if the offense is going to be fully successful. It takes pressure off of everyone else if that’s role is fully contributing 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Mahomes almost gave the game away with 3!!!! INT's yesterday in a game they led 27-0 at one point against the worst offense in football by a mile.

Did you honestly think they were going to lose? They just lost their hunger and were richarding around. I’m know we don’t like the chiefs but you have to be a homer to think our offense is playing as good as theirs. Can certainly change but this has been a very uneven month.

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Singletary is averaging 4.4 ypc. 

 

Cook is averaging 5.1 ypc. 

 

Allen is averaging 6.3 ypc. 

 

Singletary runs for 16-yards and sees 7 carries the rest of the day. 

 

The Bills don't make any effort to stay with a semblance of a run game for all 4-quarters despite being up most of the game. 

I do agree with that. We definitely give up on the run too easy. Happened in the Detroit game. Hard when you have Allen and not want him to have the ball all the time. But what the nerds don’t get is running the ball physically wears out defenses.  You need to have of  type of balance. 

[gobills404]

45 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Every legit contender:

 

 

Sanders/Hurts 

CMC

Zeke/Pollard 

Dalvin Cook 

 

Mixon/Perine

Ekeler 

Pacheko/McKinnon

 

 

 

Devin Singletary/James Cook

 

 

 

Yea.  It’s Running Back.  

Look up a list of all the super bowl winning running backs from the past decade and get back to me

[Billz4ever]

36 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I GUARANTEE if you look at the numbers this offense is more productive right now then it was up to this point last year.  It doesn’t mean all our problems are solved it just means there are over reactions to the wrong concerns some are having.   

I think this offense pre-bye week and post-bye week look like two completely different animals and I can't figure out why. What has changed?  Just lack of execution?  Dorsey just over-thinking it and getting away from what worked?  Teams made adjustments?  I just can't put my finger on it.  

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Did you honestly think they were going to lose? They just lost their hunger and were richarding around. I’m know we don’t like the chiefs but you have to be a homer to think our offense is playing as good as theirs. Can certainly change but this has been a very uneven month.

 

They don't look as great as people think at times...against the Titans and Rams they looked bad a lot of the game. 

[Nihilarian]

My take is something is off with Josh Allen, his elbow, his arm...something. AND, he was pressing at times while attempting to do far to much on his own. Too many turnovers in those losses!

 

The offense has settled into a "lets help Josh" mentality.  24 rush attempts vs 27 pass attempts. 

 

Josh final game stats, 16 of 27 for 147, 1 TD is what we were used to seeing in the first quarter in the early games this season. 

 

Yet, Josh is still sorta playing hero as he was the leading rusher, 10 for 47, 1 TD.

Although, Singletary was 8 for 39, a 4.9 AVG. 

 

Time of Possession, Jets 34:25 vs Bills 25:35. 2 turnovers were the difference. Fugly win, but a win nonetheless. 

 

Opposing teams have figured out how to defend the Bills offense (aside for Diggs, who is unmatched) This falls on the rookie OC, who is learning as he goes. Look how long it took Daboll to get that offense clicking like he did at the end of last season.

Anyone else recall how bad the Buffalo offense looked against the Jaguars in 2021?

 

That Buffalo defense played "lights out" and really carried this game IMO.

 

Current Stats, Buffalo offense, #4 in points scored, #2 in yards. Buffalo defense, #2 in points allowed, #9 in yards allowed. Getting healthy finally too. 

 

Let's hope Dorsey is saving something for the playoffs or perhaps for this Miami game.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

I have to agree with Josh being very conservative.  I don't know if the red zone turnover thing has been haunting him or if it's being beaten into his head not to make those throws, but he did have the endzone toss last week to Davis that would normally not be considered a wise throw.

 

I do agree though, it seems Josh is either not wanting to pull the trigger or he's just not seeing the open receiver.

 

In a re-do today, I don't think Josh ever attempts that game winner to Knox against KC and I'm sure a bunch of others we saw earlier in the year.

You could see the flag thrown in the replay before he let go of the ball. My guess is he knew he had a free play. Maybe not but the flag was right in his line of sight. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

They don't look as great as people think at times...against the Titans and Rams they looked bad a lot of the game. 

Definitely not saying they are perfect but they are number 1 in yards and number 2 in points (.2 behind the Eagles) after trading TH who is on a record pace himself. How would our offense be looking this year without Diggs? 

[njbuff]

33 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I sure hope this take is correct. They need to flip that switch for MIA and CIN and can probably cruise through the Bears and Pats. 

I really don’t know if having home field is a motivating factor for the Bills. IT SHOULD, but I don’t know.

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Definitely not saying they are perfect but they are number 1 in yards and number 2 in points (.2 behind the Eagles) after trading TH who is on a record pace himself. How would our offense be looking this year without Diggs? 

 

Depends who they got to replace him...they went out and signed Juju Smith-Schuster, MVS and drafted Skyy Moore. Probably made them more versatile rather than just relying on Kelce and Hill.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Big Turk

[Billz4ever]

59 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah...he says defenses aren't able to get into complex coverages in the hurry-up and have to play simpler.  My question is why don't the Bills run that more often then? Why allow the defenses to play what they want?

Wouldn't that be something if this version of the Bills implemented a no-huddle offense?  We've got a certain HoF guy still hanging around that can give them a few pointers...

[HaldimandBills]

The offensive playmaker for this team where never superior talent outside Diggs. What will make the Bills forever special is Josh Allen scrambling ability and ability to extend plays. 

 

Watching the games the past few weeks it is imperative that we find a solid slot receiver with sure hands who can also attack the middle of the field. 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Singletary is averaging 4.4 ypc. 

 

Cook is averaging 5.1 ypc. 

 

Allen is averaging 6.3 ypc. 

 

Singletary runs for 16-yards and sees 7 carries the rest of the day. 

 

The Bills don't make any effort to stay with a semblance of a run game for all 4-quarters despite being up most of the game. 

It’s maddening isn’t it?  
 

And cook was an afterthought after having a couple nice showings.  
 

The only way I can rationalize cooks usage last game is that KD doesn’t want to show all of our cards so teams can figure out our hand come playoffs.  Cover 1 did a great breakdown of cooke touches in the run game showing he’s had much of his success on just 3 run plays.  I think we should be feeding cook short passes all game.  
 

but thinking that KD would be holding stuff back would be giving him too much credit. He’s just not that good of an OC.  Yet.   
 

Hopefully we use him a LOT Vs Miami.  They were bringing blitzes all game vs Herbert and he did a helluva job navigating the pocket and locating and hitting the open man  Josh has to excel in that regard next week.  Cook is the ideal target

[TheFunPolice]

There's more talent on this offense than we're seeing, IMO

 

I think it's at least as much about player utilization. Cook, a top pick, is basically invisible. Hines, the guy they "couldn't wait to get" is invisible. 

 

Gabe Davis, the man who was uncoverable in the playoffs, invisible. 

Dawson Knox, a guy who was making some huge strides, invisible most of the time. 

McKenzie, who had some nice games filling in for Beasley, invisible. 

 

At a certain point it can't all be that these guys forgot how to play football. 

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I think this offense pre-bye week and post-bye week look like two completely different animals and I can't figure out why. What has changed?  Just lack of execution?  Dorsey just over-thinking it and getting away from what worked?  Teams made adjustments?  I just can't put my finger on it.  

 

Probably all of the above.

[Nihilarian]

54 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

We get every team's A game.

 
The Jets are an elite Defense.  
 

The Packers have an elite Secondary.  
 

Detroit has 1 loss since Halloween (us down Dawkins and Morse). 
 

We curb stomped New England.  
 

The Vikings choke should have never happened and Allen coming in with the elbow sprain doesn’t have 2 turnovers (the fumble and the OT INT where the play call was terrible and essentially green lit him to go hero ball). 
 

We handled Cleveland no problem.  Motor and Cook 170 yards rushing.  31 points.  
 

We just played a top 3 D in awful conditions and did what we needed to do - took no chances because the D had the game in control.  Still scored 20 points on just 50 offensive plays - bc too many 3rd and longs and drops —

 

This!

 

Buffalo beat a very tough Detroit team and the Vikings didn't! 

 

The Buffalo offense is doing just enough to win the game. The Bills defense is playing well. Those hits on Mike White...whoa! 

 

The Jets only sacked Allen 3x, 4x QB hits total. That first game they sacked Josh 5x and hit him 8x.

 

I also question who is injured and still out there playing? Gabe Davis? O line? Allen?

[Bruffalo]

Offensive line performance is a big part of the woes. I haven't read most of the replies here but Allen is hurried and the timing is constantly off. It doesn't help that Dorsey seems to LOVE long developing plays as well. 

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

This!

 

Buffalo beat a very tough Detroit team and the Vikings didn't! 

 

The Buffalo offense is doing just enough to win the game. The Bills defense is playing well. Those hits on Mike White...whoa! 

 

The Jets only sacked Allen 3x, 4x QB hits total. That first game they sacked Josh 5x and hit him 8x.

 

I also question who is injured and still out there playing? Gabe Davis? O line? Allen?

Bills were 2-13 on third down and Josh had 147 yards.  If it weren't for the D yesterday, we lose that game.