Advice for Coach McD

[MJS]

Maybe you should be looking for advice from coach McDermott, not the other way around...

[thenorthremembers]

3 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It’s hard to take what the defense is giving you when McKenzie and singletary are consistently dropping dumpoffs lol 

 

I also think people underestimate how much the defensive line can disrupt the short passing game by flooding the passing lanes 

Agree on half of it.  If we are speaking about dump offs than yes, a dline can mess it up.  But the Bills desperately need to scheme in screens, swing passes and maybe try a wheel route here and there.  Dorsey does none of that.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Really?

 

It's not about 1976.

 

Did you even WATCH Chiefs/Bengals, two playoff teams, and how they Bengals kept Mahomes on the sideline in their win?

 

I guess not... it's 2022.

 

https://theathletic.com/3969863/2022/12/05/chiefs-loss-bengals-patrick-mahomes/

 

 

The differences when those two teams play are the Bengals defense.

 

The Rams won the Super Bowl last year with 41 passes and 23 runs. What year was last year again? Not 2022, but still pretty recent.

[davefan66]

5 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Jets dline ate our oline up for lunch today……just be happy we got outta there with a dub!

Problem is we didn’t stick with the run.  And didn’t stick with the hot hand.  Singletary wasn’t brilliant, but had a couple of good runs.  As soon as he does, they put Cook in.  Or worse, run Josh.  To me, calling Josh’s number for runs is you don’t trust you backs.

 

Another problem is our short passing game is toast. Couple these two and the dline doesn’t have much to think about.

[Billsfan1972]

We had maybe two good runs on first down and the rest resulted in second & 9.  Tired hearing this.  

 

How about better blocking schemes, play calling and making catches and holding on to the ball when thrown to you?

Edited December 12, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Nuncha]

They haven't run the ball since McCoy left what makes you think they are going to start now?  We haven't had a 100 yard rushing game by a running back in almost a year (1-2-22 vs Falcons).

Edited December 12, 2022 by Nuncha

[Rigotz]

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Call your OC into the office tomorrow, and tell him as HC you want to see the offense run the ball.  And if he doesn’t want to call them, you will. 

McDermott: “Hey! Who’s the best player on our team?”

Dorsey: “I don’t know… probably Josh?”

McDermott: “And who’s one of the best players in the league?”

Dorsey: “Josh? What’s your point?”

McDermott: **looks off into the distance** “Then give the god d*mn ball to Devin Singletary more...”

[EasternOHBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The differences when those two teams play are the Bengals defense.

 

The Rams won the Super Bowl last year with 41 passes and 23 runs. What year was last year again? Not 2022, but still pretty recent.

 

We have to beat the Chiefs or Bengals, not the Rams, in order to advance to even get to the Super Bowl.

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

We have to beat the Chiefs or Bengals, not the Rams, in order to advance to even get to the Super Bowl.

After beating the Pats and Jets and having watched the Dolphins lose last night so as to give the Bills a tighter grip on the Division I don’t think it’s too early to do this….looking at the current playoff seeding we’d possibly be hosting the Bengals or Ravens, and then the Chiefs at OP. Should we slip one spot, we’d be hosting the Chargers, then Bengals/Titans before going to Arrowhead…again. I’ll take my chances. 

[Epstein's Mother]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I think he's got this and doesn't need some random dudes help on a message board.

 

I don't know about that.  I'm pretty sure he's on here this morning trying to figure out how to fix their 10-3 record.

[NewEra]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What happens if we go three and out every possession because our o-line can't run block?

They run block a helluva lot better than they’ve been pass blocking. 

[Bill Grundy]

McD is my man. I think he’s been a great addition to the Bills. It’s not play calling. This guy just has something about him. He knows what he’s building 

[Airseven]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Call your OC into the office tomorrow, and tell him as HC you want to see the offense run the ball.  And if he doesn’t want to call them, you will. 

His OC’s response might be: “behind THIS offensive line?!”

[EasternOHBillsFan]

42 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

After beating the Pats and Jets and having watched the Dolphins lose last night so as to give the Bills a tighter grip on the Division I don’t think it’s too early to do this….looking at the current playoff seeding we’d possibly be hosting the Bengals or Ravens, and then the Chiefs at OP. Should we slip one spot, we’d be hosting the Chargers, then Bengals/Titans before going to Arrowhead…again. I’ll take my chances. 

 

Q: So do you think that the Bills won't have to play either the Chiefs or the Bengals in the playoffs?

 

My point is that you have to keep the ball away from Mahomes and Burrow in order to get to the Super Bowl, and running the damn ball has a lot to do with it.

Edited December 12, 2022 by EasternOHBillsFan

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

We had maybe two good runs on first down and the rest resulted in second & 9.  Tired hearing this.  

 

How about better blocking schemes, play calling and making catches and holding on to the ball when thrown to you?

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your statement, but I thought I’d take a look.
 

Our 1st down plays:

 

pass for 6

mckenzie run for 7

incomplete pass

incomplete pass

Josh allen run for 0

sacked

Cook run for 1

pass for 5

motor run for 0

pass for 7

allen run for 11

Pass for 24 TD

incomplete pass

pass for 6

pass for 4

allen run for 5 TD

Pass for 17

Pass for 9

 

11 passes-  8-12 all 8 comps were over 4 yards.

6 rushes-  3 of them were for 5 yards or more with 1 TD

 

4th qtr- with a 2 score lead-

motor rush for 16

motor rush for 4

motor rush for 1

cook rush for -2

allen pass incomplete

 

for the game-  11 rushes on 1st down-  5 we’re 4 yards or more.  
 

Our OL was getting obliterated in pass protection all day.  Our in blocking isn’t “good” per say, but our pass blocking is atrocious, which is slightly worse than our playmakers ability to catch the ball.  
 

2 things have to go right in the run game-  run blocking and rb follow the blocks

 

4 things have to go right in the passing game-  pass protection, accurate pass, pass target gain a little separation, pass target catch the dam ball.  Putting all 3 together in the passing game has been rare of late.

 

Ideally, I’d rather pass around 58% to run 42% but the pass game is clearly struggling to put together complete plays-  it seems as if either the pass pro breaks down, Josh throws inaccurately or the pass target can’t get separation or drops the pass.  In the last 7 games, he’s finished with a pass comp% under 60 4 times.  
 

We need to fix this- but can we fix that this season with a roster of WR (other than Diggs) that can’t be trusted?  Can we fix OLmen that can’t pass block?  
 

If we can’t fix it this year, we can still win if we can figure out how to run the ball more effectively.  That will help the pass protection and also force teams to bracket Diggs less.  
 

our defense is still very good.  Good enough to win a SB with Josh allen and a balanced O.  It just needs to figure out 3rd and long.  Fast.
 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

46 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They run block a helluva lot better than they’ve been pass blocking. 

 

That's not saying much.

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your statement, but I thought I’d take a look.
 

Our 1st down plays:

 

pass for 6

mckenzie run for 7

incomplete pass

incomplete pass

Josh allen run for 0

sacked

Cook run for 1

pass for 5

motor run for 0

pass for 7

allen run for 11

Pass for 24 TD

incomplete pass

pass for 6

pass for 4

allen run for 5 TD

Pass for 17

Pass for 9

 

11 passes-  8-12 all 8 comps were over 4 yards.

6 rushes-  3 of them were for 5 yards or more with 1 TD

 

4th qtr- with a 2 score lead-

motor rush for 16

motor rush for 4

motor rush for 1

cook rush for -2

allen pass incomplete

 

for the game-  11 rushes on 1st down-  5 we’re 4 yards or more.  
 

Our OL was getting obliterated in pass protection all day.  Our in blocking isn’t “good” per say, but our pass blocking is atrocious, which is slightly worse than our playmakers ability to catch the ball.  
 

2 things have to go right in the run game-  run blocking and rb follow the blocks

 

4 things have to go right in the passing game-  pass protection, accurate pass, pass target gain a little separation, pass target catch the dam ball.  Putting all 3 together in the passing game has been rare of late.

 

Ideally, I’d rather pass around 58% to run 42% but the pass game is clearly struggling to put together complete plays-  it seems as if either the pass pro breaks down, Josh throws inaccurately or the pass target can’t get separation or drops the pass.  In the last 7 games, he’s finished with a pass comp% under 60 4 times.  
 

We need to fix this- but can we fix that this season with a roster of WR (other than Diggs) that can’t be trusted?  Can we fix OLmen that can’t pass block?  
 

If we can’t fix it this year, we can still win if we can figure out how to run the ball more effectively.  That will help the pass protection and also force teams to bracket Diggs less.  
 

our defense is still very good.  Good enough to win a SB with Josh allen and a balanced O.  It just needs to figure out 3rd and long.  Fast.
 

 

 

I went through that too (one was a McKenzie gadget play and another at least an Allen scramble)....  My point was the OP loves the run game and makes this proclamation all the time (as opposed to me wanting 300 yard passing games he wants 200 yard rushing games😉).

 

I'm not sure what the answer is.     

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's not saying much.

That’s the point

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I went through that too (one was a McKenzie gadget play and another at least an Allen scramble)....  My point was the OP loves the run game and makes this proclamation all the time (as opposed to me wanting 300 yard passing games he wants 200 yard rushing games😉).

 

I'm not sure what the answer is.     

We need a balance-  period.  Without it, this offense isn’t equipped to pass all game.  We lack consistent playmakers in the pass game and our OL can’t pass block to save their lives.  
 

For this season at least, if we want to win the SB, it’ll be with a balanced offense and imo, James Cook will have to become a major threat catching the ball out of the backfield.  I don’t want to see motors 17 millimeter hands attempting to catch passes many more times. (And I love motor….but cook has shown that he can be special in catching the ball.  Can Dorsey scheme it is the question.

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, boyst said:

Yeah!  If he isn't paying attention, clap! 

 

Then fire him  <------sarcasm

Edited December 12, 2022 by Beck Water

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

We need a balance-  period.  Without it, this offense isn’t equipped to pass all game.  We lack consistent playmakers in the pass game and our OL can’t pass block to save their lives.  
 

For this season at least, if we want to win the SB, it’ll be with a balanced offense and imo, James Cook will have to become a major threat catching the ball out of the backfield.  I don’t want to see motors 17 millimeter hands attempting to catch passes many more times. (And I love motor….but cook has shown that he can be special in catching the ball.  Can Dorsey scheme it is the question.

When did we set up our last screen?  

 

Yes need balance, but also to do a better job disguising the play call.  Geez I swear I know every time a run is being called.

[Don Otreply]

12 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

HC has communication with OC during game? I mentioned in postgame thread that HC should be intervening throughout the game when he feels the game is going awry

And this likely happens via discussion between the HC, OC and DC during every game, if there is a perceived problem, certainly the HC will have a one on one with his coordinators. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Call your OC into the office tomorrow, and tell him as HC you want to see the offense run the ball.  And if he doesn’t want to call them, you will. 

I agree, they abandoned the run again yesterday. 

 

The one positive on the run game yesterday was they weren't afraid to call designed Josh runs. 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Straight Hucklebuck

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

When did we set up our last screen?  

 

Yes need balance, but also to do a better job disguising the play call.  Geez I swear I know every time a run is being called.

I agree.  To date, I’m not a fan of Ken Dorsey.  Although I was happy with the game plan vs the pats.
 

We have to take into consideration that it’s his first time calling plays.  He’s learning and hopefully improving.  Our season likely rests in his hands.  He’s got a month to figure it out.  
 

if he doesn’t- McD may have to pull the plug on this experiment 

[First Round Bust]

advice for coach - dont listen to pist-off fanbase hours after a win...its hard enough after the losses all three close, gut-wrenching...but you know that

meesage to the fanbase: we are not good enough to win 72-0 every week...

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Airseven said:

His OC’s response might be: “behind THIS offensive line?!”

His HC response-  “Yes.  THIS same offensive line that is better suited to run block than to pass block.  Idiot.”

[RunTheBall]

Can someone tell me what our offensive identity is, because I have no clue. I rarely see any rhythm or flow to the offense. I think Dorsey just puts a 70/30 mix of random pass/run plays and formations in a hat and pulls one each play. He cheats a little though because he’s got a larger chip which says “Fk it, spread everyone out and let Josh figure it out” and he pulls that one out when he gets nervous.

 

Seriously though, idk what this team does well except “Diggs get open” and Singletary running between the tackles every now and then. 

 

Despite this, our O is ranked pretty high and we are capable of putting up points. Which leads me to believe that Josh being Josh is responsible for the majority of our offensive success.

 

We have to do a better job scheming guys open for easy gimme throws especially early in the game to get Josh in rhythm. I’d also call an early Josh power run so he can hit someone. We’ve all seen it, as soon as Josh does one of those runs he settles down and starts making plays.

[BBMB Poster]

Not to be contrarian, but I thought when the Bills went empty it gave the Jets problems and that is when they scored all their points it was primarily out of the empty set.  I thought the Jets had a good plan to stop the run and held us in check, except for a couple of nice runs by Motor.  

[Beck Water]

32 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your statement, but I thought I’d take a look.
 

Our 1st down plays:

 

pass for 6

mckenzie run for 7

incomplete pass

incomplete pass

Josh allen run for 0

sacked

Cook run for 1

pass for 5

motor run for 0

pass for 7

allen run for 11

Pass for 24 TD

incomplete pass

pass for 6

pass for 4

allen run for 5 TD

Pass for 17

Pass for 9

 

11 passes-  8-12 all 8 comps were over 4 yards.

6 rushes-  3 of them were for 5 yards or more with 1 TD

 

4th qtr- with a 2 score lead-

motor rush for 16

motor rush for 4

motor rush for 1

cook rush for -2

allen pass incomplete

 

for the game-  11 rushes on 1st down-  5 we’re 4 yards or more.  
 

Our OL was getting obliterated in pass protection all day.  Our in blocking isn’t “good” per say, but our pass blocking is atrocious, which is slightly worse than our playmakers ability to catch the ball.  
 

2 things have to go right in the run game-  run blocking and rb follow the blocks

 

4 things have to go right in the passing game-  pass protection, accurate pass, pass target gain a little separation, pass target catch the dam ball.  Putting all 3 together in the passing game has been rare of late.

 

Ideally, I’d rather pass around 58% to run 42% but the pass game is clearly struggling to put together complete plays-  it seems as if either the pass pro breaks down, Josh throws inaccurately or the pass target can’t get separation or drops the pass.  In the last 7 games, he’s finished with a pass comp% under 60 4 times.  
 

We need to fix this- but can we fix that this season with a roster of WR (other than Diggs) that can’t be trusted?  Can we fix OLmen that can’t pass block?  
 

If we can’t fix it this year, we can still win if we can figure out how to run the ball more effectively.  That will help the pass protection and also force teams to bracket Diggs less. 

 

Thank you for the data.

 

To the OP's point - 2 run plays to RBs on 1st down, for 0 and for 1 yd.

 

I think that Dorsey's assessment of their DL was that we weren't going to be able to run the ball very successfully against the Jets DL and LB.  Quinnen Williams is a beast, and him having to leave the game ~ halfway through helped us a lot. 

 

I think it's notable that 10 of our 24 runs were Josh Allen.  Aside from his 16 yd run, Motor had 7 runs averaging 3.2 ypc.  Cook was less successful with 1.5 ypc.

 

Again, I can't argue with your point that we need to run the ball more effectively, but I'm also wondering how that is to be done this season.

 

 

[msw2112]

As much as I hate to admit it, the Jets have improved a lot and a good team.  The Bills were not going to simply waltz all over them and get an easy win.  I really liked Dorsey's game plan against the Pats in the previous game, but the Jets have a better defense and better interior DL than the Pats, so perhaps the game plan was adjusted accordingly.  I'm sure nobody on this board would be happy if the Bills banged the ball into the line for no gain all game long....The bottom line is that the Bills scored 20 points against a very good defense on a cold, windy, wet day and it was enough to win.  The Bills biggest threat in the AFC, the Chiefs, played the lowly Broncos and had a lower margin of victory than the Bills did.  Winning games in the NFL this time of year is not easy.

[Dopey]

Don't read any of the crap on TBD and you'll be fine, coach.

[LABILLBACKER]

57 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree.  To date, I’m not a fan of Ken Dorsey.  Although I was happy with the game plan vs the pats.
 

We have to take into consideration that it’s his first time calling plays.  He’s learning and hopefully improving.  Our season likely rests in his hands.  He’s got a month to figure it out.  
 

if he doesn’t- McD may have to pull the plug on this experiment 

If he craps the bed "play calling wise" in the playoffs, I'd call Reich.  Ken just seems like a deer in the headlights.

[Dopey]

11 hours ago, RenoNVBillsfan said:

Motor averaged nearly 5.0 yards a carry today, 3.9 last week vs the Pats. I do not understand why he is not given 1 game to prove he can be a bell cow runner. One game….

Cuz we're busy winning 4 in a row, maybe? We can't afford to experiment for even one game. We're trying to win a game, not make you guys feel good. 

[TheFunPolice]

we're basically the Bucs with a much better QB and HC

 

almost no running game, totally 1 dimensional offense, solid defense. 

 

The difference is Allen can do 10x what Brady can at this point in their careers, and McDermott is head and shoulders above Bowles as a HC

[Dopey]

11 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Professionals gain wisdom from commoners more often than you think. There is a reason why we work in “teams”. 10 average brains are collectively smarter than 1 high IQ brain.

They have their "team" already and we're not part of it. As it should be.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Thank you for the data.

 

To the OP's point - 2 run plays to RBs on 1st down, for 0 and for 1 yd.

 

I think that Dorsey's assessment of their DL was that we weren't going to be able to run the ball very successfully against the Jets DL and LB.  Quinnen Williams is a beast, and him having to leave the game ~ halfway through helped us a lot. 

 

I think it's notable that 10 of our 24 runs were Josh Allen.  Aside from his 16 yd run, Motor had 7 runs averaging 3.2 ypc.  Cook was less successful with 1.5 ypc.

 

Again, I can't argue with your point that we need to run the ball more effectively, but I'm also wondering how that is to be done this season.

 

 

Idk, It’s strange to me that he would abandon the run vs the jets for a few reasons:

 

The weather was bad, especially early.  
 

The jets pass d is much better than their run D.  
 

We were having little to no success passing the ball and protecting 17 the entire 1st half. why not give it a try. 

 

We ran very effectively vs the pats who (statistically) have a better run d than the jets. 
 

Quinnen Williams is a monster, yes……so we should put him in position to take on our worst pass blocker (Saffold) all game and let him rush our franchise QB.  He may have had 4 or 5 sacks if he didn’t get hurt. 
 

Barely calling any running plays led us to 14 first downs.  Our D saved KDs butt from getting swept by the jets under his offensive lead.  

 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

My advice follow Marv Levy's advice:

"If a coach starts listening to the fans, he's going to wind up sitting next to them.".

[Ta111]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

we're basically the Bucs with a much better QB and HC

 

almost no running game, totally 1 dimensional offense, solid defense. 

 

The difference is Allen can do 10x what Brady can at this point in their careers, and McDermott is head and shoulders above Bowles as a HC

Bills have a better D.

[hondo in seattle]

16 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Call your OC into the office tomorrow, and tell him as HC you want to see the offense run the ball.  And if he doesn’t want to call them, you will. 

 

My advice to McD would be:  Please don't behave like a simple-minded 12-year-old.  Instead, sit down with your OC and develop an offensive game plan that takes advantages of our strengths and our opponents' weaknesses.

 

And I'm sure his response would be to thank me for my brilliant, non-obvious insight.  

 

[JROC INTEL]

I dont wana go back to anything near 2000’s style football. I understand trying to be balanced but I am more than ok with throwing instead of seeing a 1st and 10 turn into a 2nd and 8 automatically every time. Not to mention we don’t have a Fred Jackson or Marshawn Lynch anymore 

Edited December 12, 2022 by JROC INTEL