Lamar Jackson leaves denver game with knee injury

[AlfaBill]

9 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Lamar only makes that list because his running ability if I need a QB to get me 60 yards through the air in a minute with his arm I can't buy in to Jackson 

What’s his playoff record look like?

[RocCityRoller]

On 12/4/2022 at 1:57 PM, Limeaid said:

Ravens will see if team can perform without QB unwilling to talk on contract.

Yep, could work either way.

 

If Huntley plays well and Baltimore keeps winning, hurts Jackson

If Baltimore struggles Jackson's negotiating strength improves

 

Just heard that Jackson has a sprained knee and is doubtful next week.

[gobills404]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Lamar with the Week to Week designation

 

 

 

1 hour ago, mikemac2001 said:

Sounds like he is going to miss 2-3 games 

When he got hurt last year he was “day to day” and ended up missing 5 games. 

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently.

And I don’t know of a single other “elite” QB who is so consistently terrible in the playoffs.

[GunnerBill]

40 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I don't think it will ever end.  It's a byproduct of being in the same draft class as Allen and the media constantly playing both sides of the "who's better" argument.  LJ is the last remaining threat to the 2018 QB class throne, so there's always going to be some animosity there from certain segments of the Bills' fanbase.  

 

I would really like to think it is not that.... because it is so stupid. 

[Captain Hindsight]

38 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Lamar only makes that list because his running ability if I need a QB to get me 60 yards through the air in a minute with his arm I can't buy in to Jackson 

Lamar has 24 Career Rushing TDs. 101 Passing

[MAJBobby]

57 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

 

When he got hurt last year he was “day to day” and ended up missing 5 games. 

 

And I don’t know of a single other “elite” QB who is so consistently terrible in the playoffs.

OMFG don’t scare me like that. I saw Allen limited and freaked the ***** out. Then I noticed the date of the tweet. 

[Since1981]

Lamar really should have taken the #2 QB money offered. Like Wilson / Watson but Lamar is equal or better on/off the field. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Ah we are bashing Lamar again are we? We normally wait until a Ravens loss for that. 

 

8-4 in the division lead despite Andrews, and Stanley missing multiple games and Bateman and Dobbins being on IR (that is arguably their best 4 players on offense other than Jackson). And yet there they are. 

 

I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently.

 

Yes because Lamar is not a good QB.  The excuses for him run thin.  That team wins because the team is good and the coach is good.  Lamar is a great athlete that can run with the football.  He is average as a passer and you cant really point to anything that says he isnt.  

 

Blame the GM for not giving him 10 star receivers.  Blame Roman for being a running game coordinator.  All excuses.  The guy has had multiple good receivers and no other coordinator is going to make him read the field and pass the football better.  Its the same thing it has been his entire career... any defense that can cover Andrews and contain Lamar from running will shut that team down.  They will always run into one of those defenses in the playoffs unless the stars align on a full red moon and Jupiter is passing Mars.  Thats why they will never be anything more than playoff fodder.

 

 

 

Completely average

 

Their offense barely dropped off with Huntley last season.  They had practically the same ppg.

 

incoming standard red x.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes because Lamar is not a good QB.  The excuses for him run thin.  That team wins because the team is good and the coach is good.  Lamar is a great athlete that can run with the football.  He is average as a passer and you cant really point to anything that says he isnt.  

 

Blame the GM for not giving him 10 star receivers.  Blame Roman for being a running game coordinator.  All excuses.  The guy has had multiple good receivers and no other coordinator is going to make him read the field and pass the football better.  Its the same thing it has been his entire career... any defense that can cover Andrews and contain Lamar from running will shut that team down.  They will always run into one of those defenses in the playoffs unless the stars align on a full red moon and Jupiter is passing Mars.  Thats why they will never be anything more than playoff fodder.

 

 

 

Completely average

 

Their offense barely dropped off with Huntley last season.  They had practically the same ppg.

 

incoming standard red x.

 

304 yards of offense per game from Lamar. 7-5

 

276 yards of offense per game with Huntlet. 1-3.

 

And I say that as a guy who was a Tyler Huntley fan before it was cool. I had a draftable 5th round grade on him coming out and thought he'd make a good backup. He went undrafted but has made a good backup. 

 

But the disrespect for Lamar continues a pace. It is well known I didn't like Josh coming out of that class. Less often remarked on - I didn't like Lamar either. I got the 2018 class way wrong. But you have to adjust your opinion with evidence. Lamar is a unique Quarterback and a unique football player. I don't think he is an elite passer. I don't even think he is an elite QB. But the idea that there are easily otbainable upgrades to Lamar Jackson is for the birds. He is a top 10 QB. And those guys deserve the respect they are due.

 

EDIT: we agree on one thing re. Lamar. Roman (who is super underrated as a rule) is the best coordinator for him. Because Greg Roman is a coordinator who thinks outside the box, thinks player first, scheme second and is a brilliant creative run game mind. If an OC arrived who wanted Lamar to just be a pocket guy that wouldn't be a fit. But it would be on the coordinator, not Lamar. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Scott7975]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

304 yards of offense per game from Lamar. 7-5

 

276 yards of offense per game with Huntlet. 1-3.

 

And I say that as a guy who was a Tyler Huntley fan before it was cool. I had a draftable 5th round grade on him coming out and thought he'd make a good backup. He went undrafted but has made a good backup. 

 

But the disrespect for Lamar continues a pace. It is well known I didn't like Josh coming out of that class. Less often remarked on - I didn't like Lamar either. I got the 2018 class way wrong. But you have to adjust your opinion with evidence. Lamar is a unique Quarterback and a unique football player. I don't think he is an elite passer. I don't even think he is an elite QB. But the idea that there are easily otbainable upgrades to Lamar Jackson is for the birds. He is a top 10 QB. And those guys deserve the respect they are due.

 

EDIT: we agree on one thing re. Lamar. Roman (who is super underrated as a rule) is the best coordinator for him. Because Greg Roman is a coordinator who thinks outside the box, thinks player first, scheme second and is a brilliant creative run game mind. If an OC arrived who wanted Lamar to just be a pocket guy that wouldn't be a fit. But it would be on the coordinator, not Lamar. 

 

Lamars last 5 games as a starter that season 19.2 ppg

Huntley 5 games played while Lamar was out 20 ppg

 

I dont view 28 yards of offense that big of a drop off when you are talking about a first round supposedly elite QB vs and UDFA backup.  As I said... there was barely any dropoff on offense.  Winning is a team stat.

 

I agree with pretty much all you said here but if Lamar were the Bills QB, I would want better.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Scott7975

[NoSaint]

18 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Lamars last 5 games as a starter that season 19.2 ppg

Huntley 5 games played while Lamar was out 20 ppg

 

I dont view 28 yards of offense that big of a drop off when you are talking about a first round supposedly elite QB vs and UDFA backup.  As I said... there was barely any dropoff on offense.  Winning is a team stat.

though we all know the difference between a good month and a stretch of several good seasons. 
 

 

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

though we all know the difference between a good month and a stretch of several good seasons. 
 

 

 

Sure.  I dont hate Lamar or anything.  He is fun to watch.  I just dont think he is a good passer and I think because of that he will always fail in the playoffs.  That is all.  The guy is always going to need a strong defense to keep the score close because Lamar is not going to win in a shootout.

 

Lol @GunnerBill I literally said I agree with most of what you said in your post.  Yet you give me a disagree mark.  Come on man lol.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Lamars last 5 games as a starter that season 19.2 ppg

Huntley 5 games played while Lamar was out 20 ppg

 

I dont view 28 yards of offense that big of a drop off when you are talking about a first round supposedly elite QB vs and UDFA backup.  As I said... there was barely any dropoff on offense.  Winning is a team stat.

 

I agree with pretty much all you said here but if Lamar were the Bills QB, I would want better.

 

You might want better. But that is extremely hard to attain. I think one of the problems with QB debates now with Bills fan is they judge Josh Allen as the standard. There are maximum 3 guys in the world who can do that. Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott get ripped on this forum and they are both miles better than anyone the Bills had in 20 odd years between Kelly and Allen. And I do mean miles.

Edited December 6, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You might want better. But that is extremely hard to attain. I think one of the problems with QB debates now with Bills fan is they judge Josh Allen as the standard. There are maximum 3 guys in the world who can do that. Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott get ripped on this forum and they are both miles better than anyone the Bills had in 20 odd years between Kelly and Allen. 

 

I agree with you sort of.  Yes, teams need a good QB and Lamar is one of those.  He is going to win a lot of games with his athleticism.  The problem is that I dont believe he is ever going to get past both Josh and Mahomes or even Burrow to get to the show.  If he did by chance have that amazing season where the stars aligned, I do believe he could compete with the NFC because they dont really have a Josh or a Mahomes.

 

The only way Lamar is winning a SB is if he has stellar defense.  Once they pay this guy they aint going to have stellar defense.  They really dont even have stellar defense now IMO. Once he starts losing that athleticism then what?  He isnt a good enough passer to compensate.  Ive seen nothing in his 5 years in the league to show me thats going to improve.

 

More and more teams are already containing him in the AFC too.  They may have a good record this season but they havent beaten anybody other than Cinci.  That was barely a win and I dont think Cinci had Chase at the time either.  Win or lose they have struggle against most of their games this season.  I dont see that changing.  He isnt getting better as a passer. He is actually getting worse.  He isnt going to get better as an athlete.  Only thing they can do is get better on defense.  Thats not going to happen after they pay him unless they get some steals in the draft.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Scott7975

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with you sort of.  Yes, teams need a good QB and Lamar is one of those.  He is going to win a lot of games with his athleticism.  The problem is that I dont believe he is ever going to get past both Josh and Mahomes or even Burrow to get to the show.  If he did by chance have that amazing season where the stars aligned, I do believe he could compete with the NFC because they dont really have a Josh or a Mahomes.

 

The only way Lamar is winning a SB is if he has stellar defense.  Once they pay this guy they aint going to have stellar defense.  They really dont even have stellar defense now IMO. Once he starts losing that athleticism then what?  He isnt a good enough passer to compensate.  Ive seen nothing in his 5 years in the league to show me thats going to improve.

 

More and more teams are already containing him in the AFC too.  They may have a good record this season but they havent beaten anybody other than Cinci.  That was barely a win and I dont think Cinci had Chase at the time either.  Win or lose they have struggle against most of their games this season.  I dont see that changing.  He isnt getting better as a passer. He is actually getting worse.  He isnt going to get better as an athlete.  Only thing they can do is get better on defense.  Thats not going to happen after they pay him unless they get some steals in the draft.

I think you’re getting ahead of yourself.  Once he gets paid there’s no chance of having a stellar D?  Decosta is the best drafter in the biz imo.  They can build a stellar D through the draft.  

[Scott7975]

53 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think you’re getting ahead of yourself.  Once he gets paid there’s no chance of having a stellar D?  Decosta is the best drafter in the biz imo.  They can build a stellar D through the draft.  

 

We shall see. I dont think they ever get there with Lamar at QB.

[Special K]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Ah we are bashing Lamar again are we? We normally wait until a Ravens loss for that. 

 

8-4 in the division lead despite Andrews, and Stanley missing multiple games and Bateman and Dobbins being on IR (that is arguably their best 4 players on offense other than Jackson). And yet there they are. 

 

I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently.

 

Actually don't hate Jackson as much as I hate the sports media and pundits who are always trying to convince everybody that he is some kind of elite QB when its obvious that he is not.

 

I'm sure the Ravens or some other team will overpay for him.....heck, Kirk Cousins got big money.....I'm just glad that its not going to be the Bills who are shelling out big money for an incomplete QB. Jackson is a lot closer to Kyler Murray than he is to Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes

[Doc]

I'd hate to be in the Ravens' shoes.  I think they're going to franchise him a couple times and then let him go.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with you sort of.  Yes, teams need a good QB and Lamar is one of those.  He is going to win a lot of games with his athleticism.  The problem is that I dont believe he is ever going to get past both Josh and Mahomes or even Burrow to get to the show.  If he did by chance have that amazing season where the stars aligned, I do believe he could compete with the NFC because they dont really have a Josh or a Mahomes.

 

The only way Lamar is winning a SB is if he has stellar defense.  Once they pay this guy they aint going to have stellar defense.  They really dont even have stellar defense now IMO. Once he starts losing that athleticism then what?  He isnt a good enough passer to compensate.  Ive seen nothing in his 5 years in the league to show me thats going to improve.

 

More and more teams are already containing him in the AFC too.  They may have a good record this season but they havent beaten anybody other than Cinci.  That was barely a win and I dont think Cinci had Chase at the time either.  Win or lose they have struggle against most of their games this season.  I dont see that changing.  He isnt getting better as a passer. He is actually getting worse.  He isnt going to get better as an athlete.  Only thing they can do is get better on defense.  Thats not going to happen after they pay him unless they get some steals in the draft.

 

I don't think he is getting worse as a passer. I disagree there. I get the "can you see him getting past Mahomes, Allen and Burrow?" argument... and consistently, no I can't. I can't see Lamar reaching multiple Superbowls and have said that from the start. But is there a path to one in a lightening in a bottle season? Sure. Chase did play when they beat the Bengals btw. On a FG drive at the end that was pretty much all Jackson.

 

The bigger point though, even if he never gets to a Superbowl is what is the alternative for the Ravens? It is the exact argument I had when people were nonsensically saying the Cowboys should let Dak go. You can't stand and shout "stop the world I want to get off." It sucks for teams with QBs in the bottom half of the top 10 that the market isn't good at distinguishing the good (Lamar, Dak, Carr) from the great. But that is the market. Your alternative is to say stop the world I want to get off and suck until you find someone who is top 3 in the NFL. That is not a plan. It is a wing and a prayer. 

 

When you have a guy as good as Lamar you have to lean into it and build around him accordingly. The Ravens have done that well in terms of scheme. Not sure they have done as great a job with offensive weapons. But actually their mine issue this year and last has been keeping their guys (Lamar included) healthy. 

[Doc Brown]

18 hours ago, ddaryl said:

A bird in the hand !!!

I know he was holding out for a fatter contract but injury concerns may cost him. I think he had a solid deal on the table and I think he is a bit of fool for playing hardball for a few million more.

Young people feel invincible which is why you need an agent to lay out the cold truth.  I'm sure there's a lot of close friends and even teammates who are pushing him to get that DeShaun Watson fully guaranteed contract.  They don't have his best interests at heart.  As annoying as Murray is, he was smart enough to force his way into at minimum 104.3 million guaranteed which will likely be 160 million guaranteed.  If the Ravens offered him more than that he's an idiot for not taking it.  Especially since he won't have to give a tiny slice of it to his nonexistent agent.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he is getting worse as a passer. I disagree there. I get the "can you see him getting past Mahomes, Allen and Burrow?" argument... and consistently, no I can't. I can't see Lamar reaching multiple Superbowls and have said that from the start. But is there a path to one in a lightening in a bottle season? Sure. Chase did play when they beat the Bengals btw. On a FG drive at the end that was pretty much all Jackson.

 

The bigger point though, even if he never gets to a Superbowl is what is the alternative for the Ravens? It is the exact argument I had when people were nonsensically saying the Cowboys should let Dak go. You can't stand and shout "stop the world I want to get off." It sucks for teams with QBs in the bottom half of the top 10 that the market isn't good at distinguishing the good (Lamar, Dak, Carr) from the great. But that is the market. Your alternative is to say stop the world I want to get off and suck until you find someone who is top 3 in the NFL. That is not a plan. It is a wing and a prayer. 

 

When you have a guy as good as Lamar you have to lean into it and build around him accordingly. The Ravens have done that well in terms of scheme. Not sure they have done as great a job with offensive weapons. But actually their mine issue this year and last has been keeping their guys (Lamar included) healthy. 

 

Thats fair but I dont see how you can disagree with him getting worse as a passer though.  Since his MVP year he has statistically mostly went down.  Now obviously that was an otherworldly year but some stats have drastically gone down.  His TD% is almost cut in half since then.  His comp% has dropped 4%.  His int percent has gone up.  His rating has gone down every single year. Every year I have people tell me look... he's getting better.  Sorry, but he isnt.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Thats fair but I dont see how you can disagree with him getting worse as a passer though.  Since his MVP year he has statistically mostly went down.  Now obviously that was an otherworldly year but some stats have drastically gone down.  His TD% is almost cut in half since then.  His comp% has dropped 4%.  His int percent has gone up.  His rating has gone down every single year. Every year I have people tell me look... he's getting better.  Sorry, but he isnt.

 

The MVP year was a total one off. I said right after that season "he will never have a year like that again." It was a career year. Judging every other year by that and saying "regression" isn't fair. 

 

When you watch the games, you have to appreciate the nuances of what he is doing. He is never going to be a great passer. I am not saying that. His big limitations throwing the ball outside the numbers are going to remain. But he has improved some of his nuances. He plays the position with more patience and he is still producing with less in terms of the offense around him. I think he is a better Quarterback now than when he was MVP. But I'm not saying the flaws that stop him being a great passer are fixed or even are fixable tbh. 

[No_Matter_What]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he is getting worse as a passer. I disagree there. I get the "can you see him getting past Mahomes, Allen and Burrow?" argument... and consistently, no I can't. I can't see Lamar reaching multiple Superbowls and have said that from the start. But is there a path to one in a lightening in a bottle season? Sure. Chase did play when they beat the Bengals btw. On a FG drive at the end that was pretty much all Jackson.

 

The bigger point though, even if he never gets to a Superbowl is what is the alternative for the Ravens? It is the exact argument I had when people were nonsensically saying the Cowboys should let Dak go. You can't stand and shout "stop the world I want to get off." It sucks for teams with QBs in the bottom half of the top 10 that the market isn't good at distinguishing the good (Lamar, Dak, Carr) from the great. But that is the market. Your alternative is to say stop the world I want to get off and suck until you find someone who is top 3 in the NFL. That is not a plan. It is a wing and a prayer. 

 

When you have a guy as good as Lamar you have to lean into it and build around him accordingly. The Ravens have done that well in terms of scheme. Not sure they have done as great a job with offensive weapons. But actually their mine issue this year and last has been keeping their guys (Lamar included) healthy. 

Agreed re having no other choice than paying good QBs once you have one, as well as re Dak, Carr, Lamar being in this group.

 

Just curious where you stand with Murray. Would you pay him too? I guess I would let him go, even though he clearly has the ability.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, No_Matter_What said:

Agreed re having no other choice than paying good QBs once you have one, as well as re Dak, Carr, Lamar being in this group.

 

Just curious where you stand with Murray. Would you pay him too? I guess I would let him go, even though he clearly has the ability.

 

On pure ability, sure. And I said that when he was in his contract negotiation. I just dunno about maturity with Kyer and I know there have been issues with that in recent weeks for Lamar and if they are repeated it would give you pause. But with Kyler it feels like there are people in the building that don't believe in him as a leader. It is the stuff it is hard to quantify as a fan on the outside. 

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he is getting worse as a passer. I disagree there. I get the "can you see him getting past Mahomes, Allen and Burrow?" argument... and consistently, no I can't. I can't see Lamar reaching multiple Superbowls and have said that from the start. But is there a path to one in a lightening in a bottle season? Sure. Chase did play when they beat the Bengals btw. On a FG drive at the end that was pretty much all Jackson.

 

The bigger point though, even if he never gets to a Superbowl is what is the alternative for the Ravens? It is the exact argument I had when people were nonsensically saying the Cowboys should let Dak go. You can't stand and shout "stop the world I want to get off." It sucks for teams with QBs in the bottom half of the top 10 that the market isn't good at distinguishing the good (Lamar, Dak, Carr) from the great. But that is the market. Your alternative is to say stop the world I want to get off and suck until you find someone who is top 3 in the NFL. That is not a plan. It is a wing and a prayer. 

 

When you have a guy as good as Lamar you have to lean into it and build around him accordingly. The Ravens have done that well in terms of scheme. Not sure they have done as great a job with offensive weapons. But actually their mine issue this year and last has been keeping their guys (Lamar included) healthy. 

I think Prescott is a lot better than just “good” now and is the sort of qb who has it in him to make more than just one SB appearance. He has to overcome his head coach, although the defensive coaching is excellent. Now that Jimmy G is down, I think Dallas is pretty clearly the best team in the NFC.

[Captain Hindsight]

17 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Agreed re having no other choice than paying good QBs once you have one, as well as re Dak, Carr, Lamar being in this group.

 

Just curious where you stand with Murray. Would you pay him too? I guess I would let him go, even though he clearly has the ability.

Murray is interesting case. He is very talented and no doubt has the ability to be a game changer at the position. The moment you have the lawyers draft up a homework clause, you know you are screwed.

 

Big wow plays. Consistently inconsistent 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think Prescott is a lot better than just “good” now and is the sort of qb who has it in him to make more than just one SB appearance. He has to overcome his head coach, although the defensive coaching is excellent. Now that Jimmy G is down, I think Dallas is pretty clearly the best team in the NFC.

 

I was the guy who said Dak Prescott was at least a second round talent in that draft. In a weaker NFC it is very possible he makes multiple Superbowls. He is one of the most over-criticised players in the league IMO. Comes with the territory though. Romo was as well.

[Royale with Cheese]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think Prescott is a lot better than just “good” now and is the sort of qb who has it in him to make more than just one SB appearance. He has to overcome his head coach, although the defensive coaching is excellent. Now that Jimmy G is down, I think Dallas is pretty clearly the best team in the NFC.

 

You think the Cowboys are clearly better than the Eagles?

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You think the Cowboys are clearly better than the Eagles?

I do. I realize that many won’t agree with me, but I think Dallas would have beaten Philly with relative ease had Prescott started that game earlier in the season. I just think that the Cowboys’ overall talent level is super-bowl caliber. They have a lot of great players on both sides of the ball.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I do. I realize that many won’t agree with me, but I think Dallas would have beaten Philly with relative ease had Prescott started that game earlier in the season. I just think that the Cowboys’ overall talent level is super-bowl caliber. They have a lot of great players on both sides of the ball.

 

I think the Cowboys are going to be another playoff disappointment.  I think Dak fills up the stat sheet but will underperform in the playoffs.

[PetermansRedemption]

This should help his contract talks. Hopefully he has a good agent…

[CincyBillsFan]

To be clear and based on the replays I've seen Jackson's knee injury came in the pocket, not while he was running.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he is getting worse as a passer. I disagree there. I get the "can you see him getting past Mahomes, Allen and Burrow?" argument... and consistently, no I can't. I can't see Lamar reaching multiple Superbowls and have said that from the start. But is there a path to one in a lightening in a bottle season? Sure. Chase did play when they beat the Bengals btw. On a FG drive at the end that was pretty much all Jackson.

 

The bigger point though, even if he never gets to a Superbowl is what is the alternative for the Ravens? It is the exact argument I had when people were nonsensically saying the Cowboys should let Dak go. You can't stand and shout "stop the world I want to get off." It sucks for teams with QBs in the bottom half of the top 10 that the market isn't good at distinguishing the good (Lamar, Dak, Carr) from the great. But that is the market. Your alternative is to say stop the world I want to get off and suck until you find someone who is top 3 in the NFL. That is not a plan. It is a wing and a prayer. 

 

When you have a guy as good as Lamar you have to lean into it and build around him accordingly. The Ravens have done that well in terms of scheme. Not sure they have done as great a job with offensive weapons. But actually their mine issue this year and last has been keeping their guys (Lamar included) healthy. 

 

QB and maybe kicker (though that one doesn't matter much) are the only two positions in the league where there isn't at least 32 two very good to great players to go around.

 

That is where teams get in trouble paying these guys top $$ hoping they can get by with him, but typically weakens the rest of the team around him as not enough money left to go around.  There's a long list of QB's who got fairly large 2nd contracts only to never see the end of it as teams finally figured out this guy isn't cutting it and better to reset, usually happening after a coaching change.

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

QB and maybe kicker (though that one doesn't matter much) are the only two positions in the league where there isn't at least 32 two very good to great players to go around.

 

That is where teams get in trouble paying these guys top $$ hoping they can get by with him, but typically weakens the rest of the team around him as not enough money left to go around.  There's a long list of QB's who got fairly large 2nd contracts only to never see the end of it as teams finally figured out this guy isn't cutting it and better to reset, usually happening after a coaching change.

 

The problem is the major inefficiency in the QB market and you are right it is because demand outstrips supply. There are like three tiers of guys and then the teams who just flat out don't have a QB....

 

There is the elite tier: Josh, Mahomes, Burrow (who knows whether you still put Rodgers here or not, depends how he feels)

Then a bunch of franchise guys: this is the tier the Dak, Stafford, Lamar, Carr, Herbert (he can make the top group but he hasn't yet) etc fall in

Then there are the placeholder starters: Jared Goff and Jimmy G are the classic examples of this right now

Then there are the teams who don't have a quarterback: Colts, Jets, Saints, Panthers etc...

 

There are obviously always a few teams who haven't worked out which of these their young guy falls in... but broadly it is those 4 tiers. The problem is the market delineates between tier 2 and 3 pretty well, but not very well between tiers 1 and 2. So rather than the tier 2 guys costs $6-8m a year less which might be one or even two extra impact players they are pretty much the same price when they sign their deals. So you have a couple of seasons before the market has jumped again where you are hamstrung. Because the elite guys make up for those 1 or 2 extra impact players you are missing. The franchise guys don't quite do that. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The problem is the major inefficiency in the QB market and you are right it is because demand outstrips supply. There are like three tiers of guys and then the teams who just flat out don't have a QB....

 

There is the elite tier: Josh, Mahomes, Burrow (who knows whether you still put Rodgers here or not, depends how he feels)

Then a bunch of franchise guys: this is the tier the Dak, Stafford, Lamar, Carr, Herbert (he can make the top group but he hasn't yet) etc fall in

Then there are the placeholder starters: Jared Goff and Jimmy G are the classic examples of this right now

Then there are the teams who don't have a quarterback: Colts, Jets, Saints, Panthers etc...

 

There are obviously always a few teams who haven't worked out which of these their young guy falls in... but broadly it is those 4 tiers. The problem is the market delineates between tier 2 and 3 pretty well, but not very well between tiers 1 and 2. So rather than the tier 2 guys costs $6-8m a year less which might be one or even two extra impact players they are pretty much the same price when they sign their deals. So you have a couple of seasons before the market has jumped again where you are hamstrung. Because the elite guys make up for those 1 or 2 extra impact players you are missing. The franchise guys don't quite do that. 

 

How can you create a list like this and leave out Brady??  LOL  Actually was curious which group you'd put him in today.  He's kind of a wildcard as still very good probably belongs in the franchise group and could argue elite, but knowing that signing him is a big risk as one of these days he will completely fall off the cliff.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

To be clear and based on the replays I've seen Jackson's knee injury came in the pocket, not while he was running.

 

 

 

Yep, just like Josh's elbow injury. Tua's concussions. Heck, Jimmy G's injury came while scrambling barely out of the pocket on a pass play.

 

The pocket is the most dangerous place for a QB to be.

 

MORE designed runs to keep Josh healthy please!

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

How can you create a list like this and leave out Brady??  LOL  Actually was curious which group you'd put him in today.  He's kind of a wildcard as still very good probably belongs in the franchise group and could argue elite, but knowing that signing him is a big risk as one of these days he will completely fall off the cliff.

 

I'd now put him in the franchise group. To win with Tom now you need a lot around him. We saw that at the end in New England and have seen it in Tampa. He has won Superbowls with worse rosters than this Tampa one... but that was when he personally did more on a more consistent basis. 

[TheWeatherMan]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was the guy who said Dak Prescott was at least a second round talent in that draft. In a weaker NFC it is very possible he makes multiple Superbowls. He is one of the most over-criticised players in the league IMO. Comes with the territory though. Romo was as well.

He had an all pro offensive line, 2 great backs, 3 great WR’s and an above average TE yet still lost in the first round of the playoffs to a Jimmy G led team.  Dak is extremely inconsistent and in no way worthy of the contract he signed.  If JA was the QB got the Cowgirls that would 100% be the best team in football 3 years running.  

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

He had an all pro offensive line, 2 great backs, 3 great WR’s and an above average TE yet still lost in the first round of the playoffs to a Jimmy G led team.  Dak is extremely inconsistent and in no way worthy of the contract he signed.  If JA was the QB got the Cowgirls that would 100% be the best team in football 3 years running.  

 

This bit is correct. But again it comes back to the point. What are you supposed to do if you don't have a top 3 Quarterback? Bills fans have suddenly become total QB snobs. We have Josh and other teams don't so nobody anyone else has is any good. Dak isn't elite. But he is a darn good QB. A top 10 QB. 

[Gugny]

9 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

 If JA was the QB got the Cowgirls that would 100% be the best team in football 3 years running.  

 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

This bit is correct. 

 

How can you agree with that?  I've read it at least 10 times and still have no idea what it says!!