Figuring out Knox

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

He was open at least 4 times today where Josh for whatever reason never looked his way.

That’s been going on all season for Knox and also Mckenzie

[JoshAllin]

Well there are now 20 pass catching RB's in the lineup for the short stuff and the mid to deep for the Wr's

[Big C]

Echoing sentiment about his grieving, 

 

Also I think some folks don’t fully realize what a right end’s role is and how few of them are game wreckers as receivers. If the OP plays fantasy football they would know how frustrating it is.

 

Kelce is one of a kind. Mark Andrews is only getting fed his volume because they have no other legitimate options and he drops the ball too. Kittle goes through injuries and even when healthy there are times where here is mostly used to block and disappears on the stat sheet. Etc, etc

 

No need to worry yet. 

[Rc2catch]

He’s open. The touchdown to Diggs he was open on the other side for an easy touchdown. 
The 3rd and 3 I think it was Allen hit Diggs deeper on a real tough throw Knox appeared open on the other side short. 
I really just think Allen isn’t looking for him on most pass plays. 
 

[WyoAZBillfan]

He’s worth the $$ keeps 17 happy and has produced. The O line is weak and…well, dirty calls. I think he will be fine, again just my opinion. 

[Nelius]

9-3 indeed. I'm a little worried about his output but it's clearly not really necessary right now. I think he has the talent to spark up at any moment which is nice.

 

More worried about our TE2. Sheesh, talk about an ignored role. We got old 1970s brickhands Sweeney causing penalties and a very unproven Morris, who does seem sort of nice in his limited time. Regardless, the fact that our TE2 consists of basically otherwise ignored no-names is a tiny bit more concerning, we need to bolster every bit of this offense. It's Knox or nothing at that position right now it seems.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

2 hours ago, Wizard said:

I am curious the opinion everyone has on Knox's role in this offense.

 

The guy is being paid a good chunk of change to average 2-3 catches a game and will probably have 500 receiving yards or less this season.

 

Tonight he had zero catches, and I believe one target.

 

Is he overrated? Is he not used properly? I know the Bills are not known for having top flight TE's. I am just trying to figure out if he's fools gold or if a package of plays need to be catered to utilize him.

 

What say ye?

 

He is just a puzzling and polarizing player in this offense in my view.

 

 

 

I'm counting this season as a wash for the guy, he just lost his brother and everyone handles grief differently, you can clearly see his head isn't in the right place which is understandable.

Edited December 2, 2022 by BuffaloBillsGospel2014

[Dr Krentist]

28 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

He’s open. The touchdown to Diggs he was open on the other side for an easy touchdown. 
The 3rd and 3 I think it was Allen hit Diggs deeper on a real tough throw Knox appeared open on the other side short. 
I really just think Allen isn’t looking for him on most pass plays. 
 

 

I was pointing and yelling "Knox! Knox! Knox!" on that 3rd down play. Glad it worked out though.

[GunnerBill]

He is open. They are not throwing him the ball. He had a bad drop tonight but generally this year his hands have been fine. They just are not throwing his way.

[colin]

6 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

We want Dawesome, but Dropsome came to play tonight.  Right now dude is a Dow Joneser.

 

dow joneser!!

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

He is open. They are not throwing him the ball. He had a bad drop tonight but generally this year his hands have been fine. They just are not throwing his way.

I'd like for a member of the media to ask Josh why. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

7 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

We want Dawesome, but Dropsome came to play tonight.  Right now dude is a Dow Joneser.

 

46 minutes ago, colin said:

 

dow joneser!!

After reading this, why am I jonesing for a 'Highlights' magazine from the dentist's office?  Need the latest adventures of Goofus and Gallant. 🤔😁

[Rc2catch]

13 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'd like for a member of the media to ask Josh why. 

I think the short answer is Diggs. Allen’s got a little tunnel vision for him. Not totally a bad thing cause Diggs is dominating. But the offense is better when everyone is involved. 

[Mango]

7 hours ago, Wizard said:

I am curious the opinion everyone has on Knox's role in this offense.

 

The guy is being paid a good chunk of change to average 2-3 catches a game and will probably have 500 receiving yards or less this season.

 

Tonight he had zero catches, and I believe one target.

 

Is he overrated? Is he not used properly? I know the Bills are not known for having top flight TE's. I am just trying to figure out if he's fools gold or if a package of plays need to be catered to utilize him.

 

What say ye?

 

He is just a puzzling and polarizing player in this offense in my view.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

He's a blocking TE because we had a turnstile and a potato at OT today.

He ran a decent amount of routes tonight. He was open a few times underneath and Josh didn’t look his way. 
 

I don’t think Knox is a bad player. I don’t know his value as an individual. I think the lack of involvement is a combination of the QB not feeding him and the OC not having enough plays with him as the primary. 

[Tenhigh]

18 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think the short answer is Diggs. Allen’s got a little tunnel vision for him. Not totally a bad thing cause Diggs is dominating. But the offense is better when everyone is involved. 

I think it's all of it. Knox's head, Josh's tunnell vision, Diggs desire for more targets and our banged up oline...

Just now, Tenhigh said:

I think it's all of it. Knox's head, Josh's tunnell vision, Diggs desire for more targets and our banged up oline...

Oh, and our new OC doesn't seem to want to involve TEs.

[jaybills]

I'm giving Knox a pass this year. Guy lost his brother and I couldn't imagine how he's dealing with that and try to focus on his game. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

8 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Bad contract, he’s never shown the ability to take over a game. And still struggles with drops. 

I have to agree, the potential is there but right now he doesn't come close to a Kittle/Kelce kind of TE. 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, colin said:

 

dow joneser!!

 

I can't take credit, that's Dick Vitale.

[Not at the table Karlos]

8 hours ago, KingBoots8 said:

He’s had a bigger role blocking this year I think, and to be honest I’m not sure if this year is going to be a huge “numbers” year for him given his off-season. He will get back to form, but he’s got to get through it on his own time.

 

My theory: he’s gonna show up for a big play in the post season that will completely overshadow his regular seas woes. 

Theres part of me hoping were hiding a lot of our offense for playoffs(would be dumb but daboll admitted to being vanilla last year until the chefs game). Im not a fan of the passing game. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

I want to stop throwing to him. I can't stand the ratio of passes thrown to and caught. It's just ridiculous and makes me 100% on OBJ. If we can somehow. Which I still don't understand how we could, but that's not my job or my business. 

 

OBJ catch % the past 3 years: 54, 53, 55.....

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

8 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

agree. He could have easily had like 5-7 catches. 

 

Yep! The Diggs TD... Knox did a crossing pattern and was ALONE in the middle of the endzone. I have Knox on my Fantasy League team and I really hyperfocus on his play. He was open half a dozen times... especially on check downs and Josh went to the RB's instead. 

[ArtVandalay]

8 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

He's a blocking TE because we had a turnstile and a potato at OT today.

This narrative is complete BS, even with missing time with injury going into last night he has run the 6th most routes of any TE in the league.

 

He had 0 catches because a lolipop clanked off his hands.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

He's getting exactly as many receptions per game as last year. We are getting what we paid for. Unless we paid for potential.

[DapperCam]

Our offensive line is terrible, so he has to help block. I think it’s really that simple.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

banged up oline...

Even more reason for Josh to get the ball out quickly to open targets. What's funny to me is how the Bills spoke of being better at YAC in the offseason. It would be better if Josh spreaded the ball around to get guys involved in the game early. 

14 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Our offensive line is terrible, so he has to help block. I think it’s really that simple.

There were scenarios, last night, where Knox ran routes but was totally ignored. It seemed that Josh predetermined where he was going with the ball after the snap

[JMM]

I think its been three issues:

1. The death of his brother. I think everyone can understand how this had to affect him early in the season. 

 

2. Nagging injuries

 

3. Most importantly,  because Brown has been a turnstile, they have been forced to keep him in to chip and block much more than they would like. I think he breaks out next year.

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

This narrative is complete BS, even with missing time with injury going into last night he has run the 6th most routes of any TE in the league.

 

He had 0 catches because a lolipop clanked off his hands.

 

He had one drop. One target. The lone target was more of a flip to him... not a normal pass. 

 

Knox was open all night and Josh just didn't throw him the ball. 

[ArtVandalay]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

He had one drop. One target. The lone target was more of a flip to him... not a normal pass. 

 

Knox was open all night and Josh just didn't throw him the ball. 

Oh yeah our Pro Bowl QB ignores the open targets, that's Knox' problem! It's silly the extent you guys go to defend him. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Oh yeah our Pro Bowl QB ignores the open targets, that's Knox' problem! It's silly the extent you guys go to defend him. 

 

Did you watch the game last night? 

[Da webster guy]

overpaid.   solid TE overall i'd say he would grade out at a B.

 

inconsistent hands but makes some insane grabs.  I believe Q Morris is going to emerge as a legit receiving weapon in this offense, but Dorsey doesnt feature TE's like Daboll would.  It seems like they are checkdown options for Josh, def not 1st or 2nd reads.

 

[ArtVandalay]

6 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Did you watch the game last night? 

I did, and i watched Knox drop another routine pass. Dude is a walking brain fart. Football acumen has not grown. 

 

But keep the excuses coming is beyond comical at this point. 

[Logic]

In my opinion, Dorsey doesn't scheme him very well. He may be getting open often, but he's not usually the primary read or the person to whom the play is designed to go.

So often these days, I just see Knox running a basic flat route to the sideline. Notice how his catches always seem to be near the sideline and rarely in the middle of the field? That wasn't the case the last couple years. It's scheme.

The confounding thing is that this Bills offense could really use some middle-of-the-field production in the passing game. A guy like Knox, who is a world class talent at the tight end position, should be absolutely feasting in the middle with all the attention paid to Diggs and to Davis going deep.

For that matter, Davis was used more effectively as a big slot under Daboll, too. 

Much of the middle of the field woes this Bills passing game is facing could be solved if Dorsey more effectively schemed Knox and Davis. That is my contention.

[ArdmoreRyno]

 

Diggs TD, Dawson was WIDE open. If Josh threw it to Dawson, it would have been an easier touchdown throw and catch.

 

 

Strip play, Knox and Motor alone.

 

 

Slant to McKenzie. Knox was 4 yards behind the Judon and no one in sight. Josh dumps it off instead of hitting Knox for a long gain or TD.

 

 

Josh threw it to Diggs on this play. Diggs made one hell of a catch for the first. Dawson was streaking across the field... no one around him. 

 

 

Another pass (side arm) to Isiah McKenzie (resulted in a first down). Look at who's all alone in the middle of the field.

[BullBuchanan]

I hated the extension terms. I thought he was worth half of what he got paid, but TE's are hard to come by in this league and they probably figured it was better to be all in on an above average talent than to not have one at all.

I'm not sure if it's his fault or Allen's but I've never seen him catch a pass that he doesn't have to leap and outstretch his arms to to sideline for. He's not a threat as a route runner, doesn't have great hands and doesn't seem to have tremendous on-field speed, though he is pretty good with the ball in his hands.

[ArdmoreRyno]

11 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

I did, and i watched Knox drop another routine pass. Dude is a walking brain fart. Football acumen has not grown. 

 

But keep the excuses coming is beyond comical at this point. 

 

He had one lob weird pass that was more of a toss, weird angle. The whole game. He was open most of the game and blocked his ass off. He on Judon most of the game and guess how many sacks the leading sackman in the NFL did last night?

[ArtVandalay]

1 minute ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

He had one lob weird pass that was more of a toss, weird angle. The whole game. He was open most of the game and blocked his ass off. He on Judon most of the game and guess how many sacks the leading sackman in the NFL did last night?

A weird lob pass at a weird angle 🤣🤣

 

You crack me up. 

 

I would pay you to make excuses like this for me when i screw up. 

[Logic]

9 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Diggs TD, Dawson was WIDE open. If Josh threw it to Dawson, it would have been an easier touchdown throw and catch.

 

 

Strip play, Knox and Motor alone.

 

 

Slant to McKenzie. Knox was 4 yards behind the Judon and no one in sight. Josh dumps it off instead of hitting Knox for a long gain or TD.

 

 

Josh threw it to Diggs on this play. Diggs made one hell of a catch for the first. Dawson was streaking across the field... no one around him. 

 

 

Another pass (side arm) to Isiah McKenzie (resulted in a first down). Look at who's all alone in the middle of the field.

Thanks for these.

During the broadcast, you could definitely notice Knox open a lot.

Part of it is that he's often schemed as a checkdown or a third option in this scheme, and Josh always wants to go for the biggest available play.

Still, I can't help but wonder if Dorsey could do a better job drawing up 5-7 "Dawson Knox plays", where HE'S the primary target, and the play is designed to go to him. He's talented enough, in my opinion, to warrant such consideration. Then, when teams are locking Diggs up (which hasn't happened often lately, to be fair), the Bills have a changeup to throw.

Bottom line, though? Occasional bad drop or not, Dawson Knox is not the problem. I feel certain of that.

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I hated the extension terms. I thought he was worth half of what he got paid, but TE's are hard to come by in this league and they probably figured it was better to be all in on an above average talent than to not have one at all.

I'm not sure if it's his fault or Allen's but I've never seen him catch a pass that he doesn't have to leap and outstretch his arms to to sideline for. He's not a threat as a route runner, doesn't have great hands and doesn't seem to have tremendous on-field speed, though he is pretty good with the ball in his hands.

 

 

Kelce is the elite standard in the NFL for TE's. Well, the elite at any level... probably ever. 

 

As the years have gone by, the Chiefs use so much motion with him, he's so difficult to defend. We should be doing the same thing with Knox. Dawson is a BEAST with the ball... he's like Josh when it comes to welcoming hits. But when he's open, gotta try to get him the ball. 

 

Those ripping him for drops? Lets look at targets v catches the last few games... 

 

Pats: 1 target, 0 catches

Lions: 2 targets, 2 catches

Browns: 7 targets, 7 catches

Viks: 6 targets, 4 catches

Jets; 4 targets, 3 catches

Packers: 3 targets, 2 catches - 1 TD

Chiefs: 3 targets, 3 catches - 1 TD

 

Forget the situation or the coverage, throw, etc... he's had 26 targets his last 7 games with 21 catches and 2 scores. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

19 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Diggs TD, Dawson was WIDE open. If Josh threw it to Dawson, it would have been an easier touchdown throw and catch.

 

 

Strip play, Knox and Motor alone.

 

 

Slant to McKenzie. Knox was 4 yards behind the Judon and no one in sight. Josh dumps it off instead of hitting Knox for a long gain or TD.

 

 

Josh threw it to Diggs on this play. Diggs made one hell of a catch for the first. Dawson was streaking across the field... no one around him. 

 

 

Another pass (side arm) to Isiah McKenzie (resulted in a first down). Look at who's all alone in the middle of the field.

 

You know you could do this for every single player that the Bills sent out on a pass route more than 10 times. If an offense is not designing multiple players open on most plays, there is something wrong. And really with these still frames we can't tell where the back defender is and how they are closing if at all. For example, the last one is a catch but short of first down yardage if a defender closes on him.

 

Knox is who he has always been in this offense. Why expect more? Is it just the contract? I would like to see Allen spread it around a little more. I think that is the only edge that Mahomes has over Allen currently. But then again, Diggs is so ridiculously good it is easy to see why he forces it to him a lot. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[ArdmoreRyno]

6 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

A weird lob pass at a weird angle 🤣🤣

 

You crack me up. 

 

I would pay you to make excuses like this for me when i screw up. 

 

He's had 26 targets the past 7 games, 21 catches and 2 scores. 80.1% catches

 

Kelce (looking at the best in the league) has had 60 targets, 40 catches and 5 scores - 66.7% catches 

 

 

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

You know you could do this for every single player that the Bills sent out on a pass route more than 10 times. If an offense is not designing multiple players open on a most plays, there is something wrong. And really with these still frames we can't tell where the back defender is and how they are closing if at all. For example, the last one is a catch but short of first down yardage if a defender closes on him.

 

Knox is who he has always been in this offense. Why expect more? Is it just the contract? I would like to see Allen spread it around a little more. I think that is the only edge that Mahomes has over Allen currently. But then again, Diggs is so ridiculously good it is easy to see why he forces it to him a lot. 

 

Totally agree. I'm pointing out to those who attack the guy... he can only try to catch what is thrown his way. He's caught 80% of passes thrown at him the past 7 games with 3 scores. He's blocking his ass off as well.