Big Turk Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 We used to LOVE when teams had to drop back and pass, it was rare they got to 200 yards passing in a game...now we are seeing 300+ games against us with regularity. It's concerning...more so because the Bills seemingly offer no resistance whatsoever on D for much of the time. The pass rush is dangerously close to going back to the "lots of pressure but no sacks" defense we had with Hughes here. The DLine was ALL OVER Brissett yesterday but only brought him down for a sack once on a blitz by Milano. Is the pass rush not staying in their rush lanes which offers easy escape routes? Is the D playing too soft thinking the QB won't have time to get the ball deep due to the pressure? I'm not sure what has happened but the turning point was the Steeler game...although we easily won, Pickett had 300+ yards passing. Since that point it's been like a giant sh**show on D when we are up big...players running wide open, easy drives for TDs against us...not sure what the answer is, but it needs to change back to the way we were in the beginning of the year. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoAZBillfan Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Lack of our all pro safeties in too many games. 🤷🏼♂️ Other than that…I’ve never ever been a fan of prevent style defenses, which we seen to revert to. Edited November 22, 2022 by WyoAZBillfan 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 The last two 2nd halves have both been without Tremaine Edmunds. For as much crap as I, and everyone else, have given the guy, the stats don't lie. This defense is better with him on the field. 8 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallser Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Injuries and for some reason we just LOVE prevent defense. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Tre’davious White’s money pile. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninja Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 It’s almost like when our all pro corner, all pro safeties and one or both of our probowl linebackers don’t play it’s a lot easier to pass the ball on us 🤔 Bills have fielded a second string, sometimes 3rd string secondary for large parts of season this year. 5 8 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, uninja said: It’s almost like when our all pro corner, all pro safeties and one or both of our probowl linebackers don’t play it’s a lot easier to pass the ball on us 🤔 Bills have fielded a second string, sometimes 3rd string secondary for large parts of season this year. I know that's part of the issue but even against the Fins they barely gave up 200 yard passing, and that was due to the one deep shot they hit mid 4th quarter. 4 minutes ago, uninja said: It’s almost like when our all pro corner, all pro safeties and one or both of our probowl linebackers don’t play it’s a lot easier to pass the ball on us 🤔 Bills have fielded a second string, sometimes 3rd string secondary for large parts of season this year. It's a recent issue...the Bills to begin the season and going back to last year when White was out actually gave up LESS yards to teams than they did with him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Brissett is a baller. Not only did he escape the rush like a magician, he was very good at finding the safety valve throw most of the time. Give him a lot of credit. 4 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 minute ago, RiotAct said: Brissett is a baller. Not only did he escape the rush like a magician, he was very good at finding the safety valve throw most of the time. Give him a lot of credit. Honestly he was quite good and made a lot of really nice throws. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RiotAct said: Brissett is a baller. Not only did he escape the rush like a magician, he was very good at finding the safety valve throw most of the time. Give him a lot of credit. Only game he had over 300 yards passing and 3 TDs this year was against the Bills... He had 212 against the Fins last week and 266 against the Pats, although he was 21 of 45 with a completion percentage of under 50%. not used to seeing the Bills struggle like this in pass D. He played well but we made him look better than he was. Edited November 21, 2022 by Big Turk 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, NickelCity said: Honestly he was quite good and made a lot of really nice throws. He ain’t a bad QB. High-end backup, low-end starter. Better than Zach Wilson. I see why the Browns had high hope he could hold down the fort until Captain Sexual Assault shows up. Edited November 21, 2022 by Roundybout 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Big Turk said: I know that's part of the issue but even against the Fins they barely gave up 200 yard passing, and that was due to the one deep shot they hit mid 4th quarter. It's a recent issue...the Bills to begin the season and going back to last year when White was out actually gave up LESS yards to teams than they did with him... They miss Hyde and Poyer has been out and played, probably less than 100% yesterday. In addition, Tre White hasn't played and first round pick Kaiir Elam has been out with injury as well. Before that, Benford was out. Right there, that is enough to explain it, but as another poster said, Edmunds has been out and his length really disrupts passing games in middle of the field. Milano played yesterday, but has been out, too. Finally, don't underestimate the impact of Greg Rousseau being out injured. He isn't a dynamic pass rusher, but he is capable, his height disrupts passing attacks and he is a very good run defender. I will admit that Shaq Lawson has filled in well. From the list of injuries, it is surprising that the defense has held up at all. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 injuries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 People will claim injuries, but the reality is this is what a true 'bend but don't break' defense has always looked like and why I have always loathed this type of scheme vs a traditional 4-3 or 3-4 defense behind a creative defensive coordinator. And quite honestly yesterdays game looked a lot like Bills games of years past under this regime where the final score should have never been as close as it was if not for the defense and scheme. This is why I have a hard time believing this team is truly a SB contender because not much is going to change even when they get some of these other injured players back at some point. 3 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 literally missing half the starting defensive lineup yesterday 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Only game he had over 300 yards passing and 3 TDs this year was against the Bills... He had 212 against the Fins last week and 266 against the Pats, although he was 21 of 45 with a completion percentage of under 50%. not used to seeing the Bills struggle like this in pass D. He played well but we made him look better than he was. May be, but if you would have told me that our (depleted) defense would hold Chubb to 19 yards on 14 carries, I would have taken that all day. Obviously we need Elam and White back in there to have any realistic shot of going deep in the playoffs again. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Not hard to answer missing lots of players on the back end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 My opinion is: Our defensive backs aren't very good but are generally in the right position Just takes a team a half to test them, and when they do they find it quite easy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Big Turk said: We used to LOVE when teams had to drop back and pass, it was rare they got to 200 yards passing in a game...now we are seeing 300+ games against us with regularity. It's concerning...more so because the Bills seemingly offer no resistance whatsoever on D for much of the time. The pass rush is dangerously close to going back to the "lots of pressure but no sacks" defense we had with Hughes here. The DLine was ALL OVER Brissett yesterday but only brought him down for a sack once on a blitz by Milano. Is the pass rush not staying in their rush lanes which offers easy escape routes? Is the D playing too soft thinking the QB won't have time to get the ball deep due to the pressure? I'm not sure what has happened but the turning point was the Steeler game...although we easily won, Pickett had 300+ yards passing. Since that point it's been like a giant sh**show on D when we are up big...players running wide open, easy drives for TDs against us...not sure what the answer is, but it needs to change back to the way we were in the beginning of the year. The D-Line had tons of pressure on Sunday. Having starting safeties LB and corners would probably provide that extra second of coverage needed for the D-Line to get home. Also Brissett just played a good game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: My opinion is: Our defensive backs aren't very good but are generally in the right position Just takes a team a half to test them, and when they do they find it quite easy Well we played a bit more man, blitzed some more in this one. They're definitely experimenting because of the issues. The pass rush didn't have a good game in this one either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: Well we played a bit more man, blitzed some more in this one. They're definitely experimenting because of the issues. The pass rush didn't have a good game in this one either. They need more from the pass rush, blitzing should help Really just need to speed up the QB as much as possible, need to help your defensive backs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Nick Chubb is one of the top two or three rushers in the league — and with far fewer attempts than Henry or Barkley and even Jacobs. Yesterday we held him to 19 yards on the day. 19 yards. We were all afraid of Chubb and the Bills D totally held him in check. So, missing two pro bowl defensive backs Frasier and the D decided to let Brissett pass the ball — and try to beat us that way. He could not. As good as Brissett was (I'd love to see him back up Allen), the Bills were in control of the game the entire second half. The D did its job yesterday. With Poyer back in the lineup I expect the secondary to do its job for the remainder of the season. We don't have the veterans to lock down both the opponents run and pass game every game but our D will be good enough to win if the offense limits turnovers. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 The injuries in the Back 7 are probably 80% of the reason. The other 20% is wasting $6m per year on special teams only players like Neal and Matekevich instead of quality backups. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 There's no scheme issue, no excuses...they just sucked lately. Some of the backups just aren't up to it. And the QB's are too comfortable in the pocket, even Zach Wilson was able to do what he needed to do to extend drives. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Scheme and personnel, mostly due to injuries. A healthy Poyer, White and Elam will do wonders down the stretch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Just for clarification, is zone coverage considered "prevent defense" to most of you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 An atrocious win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 50% of CB1, CB2, SS1 and FS1 have been out for most of the season. There have been games where the entire starting secondary, other than Taron Johnson, have been out. Dane Jackson has regressed without Poyer and Hyde making adjustments and calls. Taron Johnson's knack for PD and INTs has also disappeared, perhaps due to the same reason. Rumor has it if a guy is a backup, he probably isn't starter caliber in the NFL. CB3 and CB4 are rookies going through growing pains and injuries. If I'm not mistaken Benford is playing with a broken hand OBD didn't address S in a very deep S draft It's a mystery. The fact this staff still has the Bills anywhere near the top of the defensive stats is impressive to me given the injury bug. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: Taron Johnson's knack for PD and INTs has also disappeared, perhaps due to the same reason. No idea why he was covering amari so much that’s a terrible match up. I assume they trusted him more but he was getting torched 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 They actually played well yesterday. The coverage is there. The receivers are just making a lot of insane catches recently on insane throws. if there was a coverage lapse, it was at linebacker. I really don’t want to see Dodson and Bernard out there in coverage again. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I've always thought our D is very soft protecting leads or in critical situations defying stats. I have much more confidence in our offense to come back than I do our defense to protect leads. All in all we've had a good defense many consider a great one. Great/good depending on the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Big Turk said: Only game he had over 300 yards passing and 3 TDs this year was against the Bills... He had 212 against the Fins last week and 266 against the Pats, although he was 21 of 45 with a completion percentage of under 50%. not used to seeing the Bills struggle like this in pass D. He played well but we made him look better than he was. Part of it is that we are getting everyone else's A game, like you illustrated with Brissett's performance. That's what happens when you are the perceived "team to beat". For better teams, or teams built the right way, that A game is difficult to beat. (i.e. Vikings) For others, we are good enough to beat them 9 out of 10 times, but that A game still narrows the margin for error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Browns had approximately 400 yards total. Of that, 75 on opening drive (which counts of course) and approximately 150 on last two "garbage time" TD drives with Bills having big leads. Incredible job to hold Chubb to 19 yards on 15 carries. I also get playing prevent defense up big late. Ask the Browns. They gave up an 80 TD pass under 2 minutes left and cost them loss to Jets early in the season. Helped ruin their season. What I don't get, however, is the last drive and not forcing the play away from the sidelines. Play after play Brisset was completing passes to receivers who stepped out of bounds and stopped the clock burning maybe 5 or 6 seconds. A completion inbounds burns 30. Keeping receivers in play would have forced Cleveland to heave something towards the end zone at the end instead of having a shot to recover an onsides kick and causing more heart palpatations in BUFF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: I know that's part of the issue but even against the Fins they barely gave up 200 yard passing, and that was due to the one deep shot they hit mid 4th quarter. It's a recent issue...the Bills to begin the season and going back to last year when White was out actually gave up LESS yards to teams than they did with him... Is that the game where we played against Teddy Bridgewater and Tua's scrambled egg brain? It's not a recent issue at all. Fraziers defense's have been poor against big passing plays since he got here - especially on drive continuing plays like 3rd/4th and long, or game winning drives. We've fallen apart in these scenarios regardless of talent or roster health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I think it is perfect storm. One All Pro (and even he is missing games) and a bunch of "who's that" in the secondary and a genuine lack of pass rush to cover up for the fact that the secondary is full of "who's that". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: Is that the game where we played against Teddy Bridgewater and Tua's scrambled egg brain? It's not a recent issue at all. Fraziers defense's have been poor against big passing plays since he got here - especially on drive continuing plays like 3rd/4th and long, or game winning drives. We've fallen apart in these scenarios regardless of talent or roster health. Yeah...that just isn't correct. The Bills averaged under 200 yards passing allowed for like 20 games from start of last year into the first few games of this year. This is simply recency bias on your part. Edited November 21, 2022 by Big Turk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Yeah...that just isn't correct. The Bills averaged under 200 yards passing allowed for like 20 games from start of last year into the first few games of this year. This is simply recency bias on your part. Yea, no. The issue is that our situational flaws which have resulted in defensive meltdowns are now being exploited more often, like on practically every 3rd down. If you keep giving up 3rd and 20 and 4th and 18, you aren't going to keep defenses under 200 yards passing a large percentage of the time. Also, average is pretty meaningless when you take into account they had 3 games where opponents had 61 or less passing yards. Our schedule last year was a joke. Edited November 21, 2022 by BullBuchanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said: "not much is going to change even when they get some of these other injured players back at some point." I liked much of your post, but the above statement, I respectfully disagree with. We have played damn near the entire season with a huge portion of the defense missing, and on more than one occasion the entire starting secondary out. I'm sorry but that is simply too much to ask of any team. The fact that we are 7-3 is IMO nothing short of a miracle. I do agree with you in that we've stopped getting pressure again with our front four which was a huge issue last season and the reason Beane added Settle, Jones, Lawson, and Phillips. But remember, Oliver, Settle, AND Phillips are all dealing with injuries sustained at some point this season and none of them are really at 100%....couple that with the fact Rousseau's absence has been grossly underestimated...the guy was playing monster football this year, both in pass rushing (2nd on the team in sacks) and he has proven to be a hell of a run defender.... IF we get all our starters back (minus Hyde), and that is a colossally huge IF, everything is going to change. Everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billever76 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: We used to LOVE when teams had to drop back and pass, it was rare they got to 200 yards passing in a game...now we are seeing 300+ games against us with regularity. It's concerning...more so because the Bills seemingly offer no resistance whatsoever on D for much of the time. The pass rush is dangerously close to going back to the "lots of pressure but no sacks" defense we had with Hughes here. The DLine was ALL OVER Brissett yesterday but only brought him down for a sack once on a blitz by Milano. Is the pass rush not staying in their rush lanes which offers easy escape routes? Is the D playing too soft thinking the QB won't have time to get the ball deep due to the pressure? I'm not sure what has happened but the turning point was the Steeler game...although we easily won, Pickett had 300+ yards passing. Since that point it's been like a giant sh**show on D when we are up big...players running wide open, easy drives for TDs against us...not sure what the answer is, but it needs to change back to the way we were in the beginning of the year. Injuries injuries injuries and Frazier not willing to adapt his scheme to compensate for the decline in the secondary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Yea, no. The issue is that our situational flaws which have resulted in defensive meltdowns are now being exploited more often, like on practically every 3rd down. If you keep giving up 3rd and 20 and 4th and 18, you aren't going to keep defenses under 200 yards passing a large percentage of the time. Also, average is pretty meaningless when you take into account they had 3 games where opponents had 61 or less passing yards. Our schedule last year was a joke. Guess the last 5 years worth of schedule was a joke then since the Bills ranked #1 in virtually every pass D category over that timeframe. Edited November 21, 2022 by Big Turk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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