Yes I know injuries on Defense... But they've been bad the last two weeks....

[Bimmer323i]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:16 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

At least 6 quarters.  Enough about points allowed, the opposition is moving the ball easily, which keeps the offense on the sidelines.

 

Pickett a rookie had over 300 yards passing (yes a blowout, but nonetheless).  Gashed by the run the last 6 quarters.

 

No way should they allow have allowed Zach Wilson 72% completion % and the Jets to control TOP.

Our whole team including special teams is in a little bit of slump right now but it was like that last year to and we pulled it together just in time for the playoffs… I’m really not to worried

Just now, Bimmer323i said:

Our whole team including special teams is in a little bit of slump right now but it was like that last year to and we pulled it together just in time for the playoffs… I’m really not to worried

I’m a drummer and most nights  I play really well and once in a while for whatever reason I don’t play up to my my standards… its prolly the same with athletes as well..

[In Summary]

Cover1 is out with some good video breakdown of the D. Unfortunately,  I didn't see them break down the Jets running TD. Not sure how the middle got so open (???). Looked like good Jets blocking.

 

I don't think there is any fundamental problem with the D.  More of a drop in talent and athleticism with the safety and LB depth. Jets loss was on the offense.

[NoSaint]

On 11/8/2022 at 2:41 PM, The Jokeman said:

I agree, we've given up 37 points the last two games, hardly horrible defense. Especially some of those points due to offensive turnovers giving the D a short field. Missed FGs, missed chances on offense and missed tackles on D have lead to the bad performance the last two games. 

In fact, that’s better than average still despite missing pro bowlers at safety (x2), CB, and linebacker. 
 

how many teams are holding teams below average scoring with 4 pro bowlers out in their back 7

44 minutes ago, In Summary said:

Cover1 is out with some good video breakdown of the D. Unfortunately,  I didn't see them break down the Jets running TD. Not sure how the middle got so open (???). Looked like good Jets blocking.

 

I don't think there is any fundamental problem with the D.  More of a drop in talent and athleticism with the safety and LB depth. Jets loss was on the offense.

red zone turnovers are a big deal. In divisional games on the road especially.

 

imagine how demoralizing it would’ve been to see their kicker trip himself, diggs go deep on sauce and then punch in 7 points before they even knew what hit them.

[John from Riverside]

On 11/8/2022 at 12:35 PM, nosejob said:

This defensive staff has to have the ability to adapt against opponents on a weekly basis. Getting home with four is great, but it ain't doable every week against every team. It feels like we are stuck in the 90's on D with an old guy that thinks we can do what the 85 bears did.

 

I'd take Schwartz or Pettine any day.

We literally have a top-five defense in the NFL while running to rookie corners
 

Just chew on that for a minute

[CEN-CAL17]

The pass rush was weak.

 

Our Blitz packages aren’t used, We played a 2nd year QB, should have been able to throw more at him.

 

Last year against the run we brought in Klein…. We haven’t  seen anything but nickel all year. Outside Milano, hurt, our linebackers are pretty weak.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by CEN-CAL17

[BarleyNY]

15 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

It feels like blame has to be apportioned anywhere to keep it away from Josh. He was largely at fault for Sunday and, credit to him. he owned it.

 

I've said it before but for the first touchdown drive, the defense got off the field only for Specials Team to mess up.

For the second touchdown, Josh threw an interception which gave them good field position.

Basically our defense was at solely at fault for six points. I think that's fine.

Allen had two picks, two other passes that should’ve been picked and two fumbles that the Bills recovered. Sorry, but no matter how good a QB is otherwise, that’s a great way to lose a game - even against an inferior opponent. Yes, others should share the blame. The OL, Dorsey and Beane/McDermott should. I’m including the last pair because of their strategy and execution of OL talent acquisition and development.

 

I was worried about two units coming into the season: DBs and OL. They threw some significant resources at DB. OL, not so much. Retaining Bates and signing an over the hill OG in Saffold to go along with a late round OL who got cut didn’t look like nearly enough at the time and it sure doesn’t now either. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Allowing Zach Wilson to go up-and-down the field in time consuming drives to me that's being gashed.

 

 Again it's not how many points they scored it's the fact that they controlled the ball for so long.

 

 

It's only "not how many points they scored" because you're desperately trying to spin things. It really is how many points they scored.

 

The Bills offense scoring 17 points was the problem. 17 points is a horrible offensive output. 20 points is a pretty damn good score for a defense to hold a team to.

 

The offense's worst of the year in both points and yards. 

 

The D allowed 310 yards (which would be 7th in the league in yards allowed per game) and 12th in the league in points allowed per game. 

 

The O racked up 317 yards (which would be 7th WORST in the league in yards allowed per game) and 17 points would have put them at 6th worst.

 

And they didn't "allow Wilson to go up and down the field." They allowed Wilson to go up and down the field sometimes. Which is how defense works. Again, the Jets' yardage gained would have put them 7th worst in the league. That's just not going up and down the field all the time or even close. If they had actually just gone up and down the field all the time they'd have piled up yards and points. They didn't. You're only thinking about the parts of the game that back up your point, and it's causing you to miss what happened.

[Billsfan1972]

53 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's only "not how many points they scored" because you're desperately trying to spin things. It really is how many points they scored.

 

The Bills offense scoring 17 points was the problem. 17 points is a horrible offensive output. 20 points is a pretty damn good score for a defense to hold a team to.

 

The offense's worst of the year in both points and yards. 

 

The D allowed 310 yards (which would be 7th in the league in yards allowed per game) and 12th in the league in points allowed per game. 

 

The O racked up 317 yards (which would be 7th WORST in the league in yards allowed per game) and 17 points would have put them at 6th worst.

 

And they didn't "allow Wilson to go up and down the field." They allowed Wilson to go up and down the field sometimes. Which is how defense works. Again, the Jets' yardage gained would have put them 7th worst in the league. That's just not going up and down the field all thaAle time or even close. If they had actually just gone up and down the field all the time they'd have piled up yards and points. They didn't. You're only thinking about the parts of the game that back up your point, and it's causing you to miss what happened.

Always excuses.  Long clock killing drives take the air out of a team.  They didn't pressure for theist part and allowed dink and dunks and 72% completion %.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Always excuses.  Long clock killing drives take the air out of a team.  They didn't pressure for theist part and allowed dink and dunks and 72% completion %.

you have a hard time differentiating facts from excuses i suppose.... yikes.

[UKBillFan]

18 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Always excuses.  Long clock killing drives take the air out of a team.  They didn't pressure for theist part and allowed dink and dunks and 72% completion %.

Josh’s pass completion percentage on Sunday was 52.9%. If he had managed 72% we would have won.

 

ETA - He’s only been above 72% once all season.

Edited November 10, 2022 by UKBillFan

[Realist]

5 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

The pass rush was weak.

 

Our Blitz packages aren’t used, We played a 2nd year QB, should have been able to throw more at him.

 

Last year against the run we brought in Klein…. We haven’t  seen anything but nickel all year. Outside Milano, hurt, our linebackers are pretty weak.

 

 

 

This, I agree with. I'm not saying we need to become a blitzing team, but on occasion you have to bring in extra guys to mix things up. Especially need to do this against a QB like Wilson who everyone knows folds under pressure.

[BillyBilliams]

On 11/8/2022 at 1:28 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Fans need to look around the league. That is not bad defense.

While I understand what you're saying, a "not bad defense" isn't why the team were Super Bowl favorites.  They are/were favorites because they dominate on both sides of the field.  I think they're fine for now, but I get what the OP is saying.  If the defense plays like they did the last few weeks with Allen out, we could be in for a long rest of the year until Allen comes back.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

While I understand what you're saying, a "not bad defense" isn't why the team were Super Bowl favorites.  They are/were favorites because they dominate on both sides of the field.  I think they're fine for now, but I get what the OP is saying.  If the defense plays like they did the last few weeks with Allen out, we could be in for a long rest of the year until Allen comes back.

They’re going to be worse with all the injuries. The defense needs to get healthier.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They’re going to be worse with all the injuries. The defense needs to get healthier.

It was eff'ing Zach Wilson dictating the pace of play and marching them down the field.  Sorry not acceptable. 

[UKBillFan]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

It was eff'ing Zach Wilson dictating the pace of play and marching them down the field.  Sorry not acceptable. 

 

The defense was weakened with injuries and kept them to two touchdowns - on both occasions they were not solely at fault for them. The last drive was gut wrenchig, yet, but even then they stopped them with a field goal.

 

I agree we cannot afford to defend in that manner against stronger sides than the Jets. But. purely reflecting on Sunday, the defeat was not down to the defense. The offense had far more issues, especially considering they had less injury problems on the day.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

32 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

It was eff'ing Zach Wilson dictating the pace of play and marching them down the field.  Sorry not acceptable. 

Wilson didn’t do much. The Bills defense didn’t get any help from the offense. That’s not acceptable. They gave up a 4 play 19 yard TD drive after forcing a Wilson fumble.

 

The Bills offense kept the Jets in the game. When you keep a team in the game you can lose games. 
 

They got run over that final FG drive but the defense definitely was not the reason they lost.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Allen had two picks, two other passes that should’ve been picked and two fumbles that the Bills recovered. Sorry, but no matter how good a QB is otherwise, that’s a great way to lose a game - even against an inferior opponent. Yes, others should share the blame. The OL, Dorsey and Beane/McDermott should. I’m including the last pair because of their strategy and execution of OL talent acquisition and development.

 

I was worried about two units coming into the season: DBs and OL. They threw some significant resources at DB. OL, not so much. Retaining Bates and signing an over the hill OG in Saffold to go along with a late round OL who got cut didn’t look like nearly enough at the time and it sure doesn’t now either. 

Brown doesn't strike me as talented or durable. Saffold and Quessenberry are a couple mediocre regects from Tennessee. Bates is commendable but JAG.  That leaves us with 2 decent olineman in Dawkins & Morse.  Poor strategy & execution in acquisition and development (Kromer??) sums it up perfectly. Stop wasting picks on defensive busts and surround Josh with a quality OL that's capable of both run blocking & pass protection. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's only "not how many points they scored" because you're desperately trying to spin things. It really is how many points they scored.

 

The Bills offense scoring 17 points was the problem. 17 points is a horrible offensive output. 20 points is a pretty damn good score for a defense to hold a team to.

 

The offense's worst of the year in both points and yards. 

 

The D allowed 310 yards (which would be 7th in the league in yards allowed per game) and 12th in the league in points allowed per game. 

 

The O racked up 317 yards (which would be 7th WORST in the league in yards allowed per game) and 17 points would have put them at 6th worst.

 

And they didn't "allow Wilson to go up and down the field." They allowed Wilson to go up and down the field sometimes. Which is how defense works. Again, the Jets' yardage gained would have put them 7th worst in the league. That's just not going up and down the field all the time or even close. If they had actually just gone up and down the field all the time they'd have piled up yards and points. They didn't. You're only thinking about the parts of the game that back up your point, and it's causing you to miss what happened.

 

The defense absolutely let the Jets go up and down the field.

 

The Jets 32:44 of TOP from the game would be #1 in the league if they averaged that per game. 

 

TOP is a team stat and can be negatively effected by a teams offense going 3 and out. The Bills offense had 4 drives of 4+ minutes and 2 short drives (the 2 ints). They did not have a 3 and out that resulted in a punt. I think it's fair to place the majority of the blame for TOP on the defense and their inability to stop the run, or a Jets drive in general. 

 

This was easily the worst game of the year by the Bills DEF (especially if we're considering the opponent). 

 

All things considered it wasn't a terrible performance by the DEF - just a bad one. The offense was also bad

 

[Billsfan1972]

And if that bogus phantom hold wasn't called that cost the Bills 37 yards (27 yard pass completion turned into a 10 yard loss) that last drive, I think the Bills score and the discussion is that Allen threw two bad Ints and I don't mention the defense (though it's in the back of my mind).😝

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Always excuses.  Long clock killing drives take the air out of a team.  They didn't pressure for theist part and allowed dink and dunks and 72% completion %.

I agree. 

 

This thread is about the defense so I'll keep it on that. 

 

That last, long, Jets 6+ min drive only ended with a FG...however, those 3 points cost the game. 

 

The defense needs to be able to switch things up and get in the QB's face if the 4 man rush isn't getting there. Same thing with the run stoppers! If the Nickle defense is being run on at least swap out the smaller players for some bigger players to stop the run.

 

It still blows my mind that this DC is so afraid if getting beat deep that he can't step away from the Nickle defense.

 

That Jets O line was supposedly beat up and getting abused by other teams...

 

That Packers game showed the rest of the NFL how to run on the Buffalo Bills and the Jets saw that and used it to get the win. 

 

Let me forecast the future a bit...the 7-1 Vikings will play ball control and run Dalvin Cook down the Bills throat...the Bills will stay in Nickle and get run on...

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Everyone talking about the defense. They aren’t going to win a lot of games without Poyer, Hyde, Milano, White, Elam, and Rousseau when the offense only scores 17 points.

The Bills had the ball. Possessions were basically even. The offense kept an average team in the game and they lost. That game should’ve been 21-3 in the 1st half.

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Billsfan1972]

Thought I'd resurrect this since I went dark since the Vikings game.

 

Yes a win vs. Cleveland, but they are garbage, but Brissett, Pickett, Wilson & Cousins all gashed the Bills.  Only some timely plays saved the Bills in many cases.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Big Turk]

The strategy of forcing teams to bleed the clock on long time consuming drives when up big doesn't work when you allow plays over the top. 

 

Gotta get better on the backend.

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Big Turk said:

The strategy of forcing teams to bleed the clock on long time consuming drives when up big doesn't work when you allow plays over the top. 

 

Gotta get better on the backend.

Or 86 yard td runs?

[Dr.Sack]

I think they were great against the run and continue getting torn up by elite WRs. Poyer and Milano made the enough plays to get the result we needed.

[f0neguy]

I think if (when) we get Tre and Elam back our defense will look a little better.   Everyone has injuries but nobody else is down three Pro Bowl players on the back end.   Just get healthy…. 🤬

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, f0neguy said:

I think if (when) we get Tre and Elam back our defense will look a little better.   Everyone has injuries but nobody else is down three Pro Bowl players on the back end.   Just get healthy…. 🤬

Jacquan Johnson was a liability in the games against the Jets and Vikings.  Today. Duane Jackson was exposed quite a bit.   

 

We have lost key players at each level (Front Four,  Middle Two and Back End Five).  It is very hard to overcome that kind of injuries

[JoPoy88]

9 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Thought I'd resurrect this since I went dark since the Vikings game.

 

Yes a win vs. Cleveland, but they are garbage, but Brissett, Pickett, Wilson & Cousins all gashed the Bills.  Only some timely plays saved the Bills in many cases.

no mention in your self-bump of your own thread of said defense completely shutting down one of the very best running backs in the league though. Oh that doesn’t fit your little crusade does it? 

[JohnNord]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:16 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

At least 6 quarters.  Enough about points allowed, the opposition is moving the ball easily, which keeps the offense on the sidelines.

 

Pickett a rookie had over 300 yards passing (yes a blowout, but nonetheless).  Gashed by the run the last 6 quarters.

 

No way should they allow have allowed Zach Wilson 72% completion % and the Jets to control TOP.

The Bills don’t care about yards allowed - they care about points allowed.  You can hear defensive backs coach Bobby Babbitch literally say in one of the games covered by NFL films.  
 

If you look at points allowed:

 

20 versus NYJ - (which included a TD given up on a shortened field thanks to an Allen INT)

 

23 versus Minnesota in regulation- before the fumble TD the defense limited Minnesota to 23 points and had the game won.  
 

23 versus Cleveland - largely boosted by a garbage time time TD.  
 

What made the game today worse was the fact that our defensive backs couldn’t not make a play on the football.  Dane Jackson was the biggest culprit.  He’d had decent coverage but just never got his head around. It actually happened to Taron Johnson a few times as well

[Billsfanatic8989]

Will we be getting defensive guys back from injury anytime soon?

 

It may derail the season.

[Billsfan1972]

30 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

no mention in your self-bump of your own thread of said defense completely shutting down one of the very best running backs in the league though. Oh that doesn’t fit your little crusade does it? 

No it doesn't......😉  Not the point.  

 

People here love to take sides and the apologists for McD continue to always double down.

 

I have no crusade at all, I just point out facts and it is pretty obvious that the defense has not done the job when called upon.

 

The Bills are 7-3 & yes we know Allen really has been really out of sorts of late, but the defense was as much or more to blame then Allen vs. NYJ & Minnesota.  

[JoPoy88]

24 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No it doesn't......😉  Not the point.  

 

People here love to take sides and the apologists for McD continue to always double down.

 

I have no crusade at all, I just point out facts and it is pretty obvious that the defense has not done the job when called upon.

 

The Bills are 7-3 & yes we know Allen really has been really out of sorts of late, but the defense was as much or more to blame then Allen vs. NYJ & Minnesota.  

you don’t point out all the facts though, and that’s my point. Only the ones that fit your agenda while you shamelessly bump your own bull. But go ahead, carry on, no one takes what you say seriously anyways.

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

you don’t point out all the facts though, and that’s my point. Only the ones that fit your agenda while you shamelessly bump your own bull. But go ahead, carry on, no one takes what you say seriously anyways.

He is the most self-absorbed person on this board.  Just starts threads to draw attention to himself.

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

the defense was as much or more to blame then Allen vs. NYJ & Minnesota.  

 

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. 

[Bookie Man]

You know what's crazy to think about? If Tre White doesn't get hurt, we probably win the Super Bowl last year. And we're probably 10-0 right now this year. 

[Billsfan1972]

50 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He is the most self-absorbed person on this board.  Just starts threads to draw attention to himself.

Look in the mirror.  This board is full of people.  I'm pointing out observations I have.  We all know there are injuries.  

 

But be honest the defense has been bad.  Tired of but but but....  

[SydneyBillsFan]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. 

 

Come on Gooner....they didn't exactly cover themselves in glory either.

 

BTW - will you be taking a knee for the Ing-er-lund Rainbow Warriors? 

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Come on Gooner....they didn't exactly cover themselves in glory either.

 

BTW - will you be taking a knee for the Ing-er-lund Rainbow Warriors? 

Of course they did.  They played lights out and this is the problem here, people don't want to admit some pretty obvious issues.

 

We can all agree that Allen is not himself, but all expect him to bounce back (because if he doesn't this team is toast). 

 

Yesterday they did a good job on Chubb, but Cleveland botched a FG, didn't convert in the redzone, Bills got lucky on a bad snap (fumble) and stopped them on 4th down.

 

I more then anyone want the defense to play better, but hard to watch.  

 

BTW look at what other Defenses did yesterday Balt, NYJ, NE, Dallas, Washington....

 

When we have needed the Defense to come up big vs. NYJ & Minn, they did not.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Come on Gooner....they didn't exactly cover themselves in glory either.

 

BTW - will you be taking a knee for the Ing-er-lund Rainbow Warriors? 

 

I would have worn the armband. If all 8 federations had stuck to their guns they'd have put FIFA in a difficult spot. Cowards. 

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

When we have needed the Defense to come up big vs. NYJ & Minn, they did not.

 

 

 

They stopped Minnesota a yard short to all but win the game. Then Josh and Mitch Morse gave it away. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I would have worn the armband. If all 8 federations had stuck to their guns they'd have put FIFA in a difficult spot. Cowards. 

 

They stopped Minnesota a yard short to all but win the game. Then Josh and Mitch Morse gave it away. 

They let them get to the 1 yard line and convert 4th & 18 amongst other things.  Again Minnesota botched a lot of things that game too (including not scoring a td first possession of OT).  

 

All depends on how you look at things.