Italian Bills Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 The run game is a real problem for too long right now. How is it possible that we couldn’t fix this problem after all this years ? Poor backs ? Poor OL ? We can’t run the ball consistently with all the backs together for about 150 yards a game, i don’t mean 400, but at least 150… com’on. And what I noticed is the we run the middle most of the times and most of the times with no gain. What about go outside the los and not through the middle ? Am i missing something ? Opinions ? Possible solutions ? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akcash Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Should implement pistol offense next year. Get a little bit more downhill momentum out of the pistol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 With a talent like Josh Allen, the temptation to use him as much as possible is just there. I agree we need more of a running game, but Josh's abilities makes the pass a much more attractive option. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) They ran the ball ok against LA. Not so much against Tennessee. Im really hesitant to use the Miami game as much of a baseline for anything. They blitzed almost every play, Miami had defenders all over the LOS, and any creativity and/or pulling linemen was lost when we started seeing the effects of the heat early on. It certainly seems like it’s a problem though. A start would be to shorten the RB rotation. No idea why they rotate backs so much. I don’t care if it’s Singletary or Moss, but pick one and stick with them. Rotate Cook in as the change of pace back. Edited September 27, 2022 by SCBills 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 We should give Zach Moss more carries, he's averaging 6 ypc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PonyBoy Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Interesting point. It's funny how a Derrick Henry can make Ryan Tannehill look so very good, but Josh Allen's talent doesn't for our RB's as Henry for Tannehill has. Not a slam on Allen, you just think with so much focus on Josh and the pass, the RB's would have a hey day when runs are called. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 I just don’t know if I want the Bills to run the ball enough times to “establish a run game.” I just looked at the stats for the Colts/Chiefs game. JT had 22 carries for 78 yards. If that was a QB stat, it would be horrendous. All running-heavy teams have similar stats. In 2022, it just seems inefficient. I would agree that we need to improve our ability to pick up 1-2 hard yards with RBs. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 It's funny because during the drought years, the only thing we could do RIGHT on offense was run the ball. We had backs like McGahee, Henry, Lynch, Jackson, and McCoy and some future HOF linemen like Ruben Brown and Jason Peters. We're built for the passing game and we've only taken one offensive lineman with a 1st round pick in the last 20 years (Eric Wood in 2009) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, PonyBoy said: Interesting point. It's funny how a Derrick Henry can make Ryan Tannehill look so very good, but Josh Allen's talent doesn't for our RB's as Henry for Tannehill has. Not a slam on Allen, you just think with so much focus on Josh and the pass, the RB's would have a hey day when runs are called. Teams tend to have at least one guy spying. Might not be a bad idea to run a reverse or something occasionally from a QB sprint or RPO look to add an extra wrinkle. Might help to bring back some of those McK jet sweeps and mix Knox into that mix as well. Give the defenses a few other opportunities to hesitate going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 33 minutes ago, Draconator said: With a talent like Josh Allen, the temptation to use him as much as possible is just there. I agree we need more of a running game, but Josh's abilities makes the pass a much more attractive option. The ultimate goal is to win a Super Bowl, not to look attractive. See John Elway, Peyton Manning. They both looked "attractive" throwing the football. They didn't win a chip until they added a complimentary RB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 23 minutes ago, SCBills said: They ran the ball ok against LA. Not so much against Tennessee. Im really hesitant to use the Miami game as much of a baseline for anything. They blitzed almost every play, Miami had defenders all over the LOS, and any creativity and/or pulling linemen was lost when we started seeing the effects of the heat early on. It certainly seems like it’s a problem though. A start would be to shorten the RB rotation. No idea why they rotate backs so much. I don’t care if it’s Singletary or Moss, but pick one and stick with them. Rotate Cook in as the change of pace back. Singletary definitely took most of the snaps in the past game. I know with the tennessee game they have traditionally had a good run defense, and they had a weak secondary so matchup wise - we should shred them in the air. Miami blitzed a ton early in this one so buffalo got comfortable in the shotgun giving allen a bit more space. The multiple botched snaps under center was likely a concern as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 We don’t need to run more. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StHustle Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said: Iwe've only taken one offensive lineman with a 1st round pick in the last 20 years (Eric Wood in 2009) That’s from running in the middle of the pack so many years. We rarely drafted high enough to catch an OL with a solid fi st round grade at our pick. It’s the same reason we drafted so few QBs in the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: We don’t need to run more. Need to run better though. Especially in the red zone/short yardage situations 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Just now, StHustle said: That’s from running in the middle of the pack so many years. We rarely drafted high enough to catch an OL with a solid fi st round grade at our pick. It’s the same reason we drafted so few QBs in the first. I think there are missed opportunities outside the first though: 1 - moving on from Teller as a prospect in favor of flexibility with their depth. 2 - Epenesa hasn't been a major impact player yet, there are multiple options around that pick that are more impact players along the line (ezra cleveland, damien lewis, jonah jackson 3 - Basham over Humphrey in 2021 after doubling down with rousseau after epenesa in 2020. 4 - Elam in 2022. Obviously we don't know anything yet - but the next 2 players off the board were tyler smith and tyler linderbaum. We certainly had the ability to draft either. Likely was competition for morse and brown, and doesn't improve the guards around them either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Runs up the middle involved our backs getting mauled in the backfield. Consistently. That's your problem, right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: I think there are missed opportunities outside the first though: 1 - moving on from Teller as a prospect in favor of flexibility with their depth. 2 - Epenesa hasn't been a major impact player yet, there are multiple options around that pick that are more impact players along the line (ezra cleveland, damien lewis, jonah jackson 3 - Basham over Humphrey in 2021 after doubling down with rousseau after epenesa in 2020. 4 - Elam in 2022. Obviously we don't know anything yet - but the next 2 players off the board were tyler smith and tyler linderbaum. We certainly had the ability to draft either. Likely was competition for morse and brown, and doesn't improve the guards around them either do you not liike Espensa, Basham, and Elam? All 3 have played great this year IMO. And Elam is certainly a need right now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Draconator said: With a talent like Josh Allen, the temptation to use him as much as possible is just there. I agree we need more of a running game, but Josh's abilities makes the pass a much more attractive option. If we had the legitimate threat of running game that defenses were even slightly worried about, that would make Allen all that much better. Defenses could no longer play like they were expecting pass every down. Edited September 27, 2022 by Billz4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Italian Bills said: The run game is a real problem for too long right now. How is it possible that we couldn’t fix this problem after all this years ? Poor backs ? Poor OL ? We can’t run the ball consistently with all the backs together for about 150 yards a game, i don’t mean 400, but at least 150… com’on. And what I noticed is the we run the middle most of the times and most of the times with no gain. What about go outside the los and not through the middle ? Am i missing something ? Opinions ? Possible solutions ? To me, Singletary and Moss have had their chances. Start Cook. The offensive line is bottom 12 in the league and our offense is never going to hinge on running the ball. McDermott has had nothing but slow people running the ball since he got here: Tolbert, Ivory, Gore, Singletary, Moss. Get rid of the delayed handoffs, our line is horrible and gets no push, so all this does is give the defense more time to get in the backfield. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Draconator said: With a talent like Josh Allen, the temptation to use him as much as possible is just there. I agree we need more of a running game, but Josh's abilities makes the pass a much more attractive option. Daboll fell into this trap and now Dorsey is doing it too. At least Ken is taking some pressure off JA with all the dumpoffs. We've just never committed to good run blocking olineman or dynamic RB's. I have zero faith in us ever converting a 3rd & 1 or 4th & 1 without Josh having to do some stupid acrobatic play. If you want to enjoy 17's services for the next 10-12 years these coaches better figure it out. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 14 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: To me, Singletary and Moss have had their chances. Start Cook. The offensive line is bottom 12 in the league and our offense is never going to hinge on running the ball. McDermott has had nothing but slow people running the ball since he got here: Tolbert, Ivory, Gore, Singletary, Moss. Get rid of the delayed handoffs, our line is horrible and gets no push, so all this does is give the defense more time to get in the backfield. Hate the lack of speed from these guys. Hate the RPO because both qb and rb are starting from a dead stopped position. The rb has no momentum attacking whatever hole is available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said: We don’t need to run more. exactly. this team has mediocre backs. that's it. let them catch passes and block for the money makers..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 30 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: To me, Singletary and Moss have had their chances. Start Cook. The offensive line is bottom 12 in the league and our offense is never going to hinge on running the ball. McDermott has had nothing but slow people running the ball since he got here: Tolbert, Ivory, Gore, Singletary, Moss. Get rid of the delayed handoffs, our line is horrible and gets no push, so all this does is give the defense more time to get in the backfield. It doesn't matter who's back there. Outside of the Rams game, the O-line has gotten zero push. Our RB's have been lucky to get out of the backfield. No push from the line, no hole opened, nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky7337 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 The answer is we always ignored interior line talent in the draft and or didn't hit on it (ford) I believe that is the heart of those short yardage and run struggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Keep blaming the backs and line.. But they are bottom 5 in rush attempts if you take allens attempts away. Sometimes the run doesn’t work or it takes a bit to get going. Cleveland or San Fran and some of these teams don’t just abandon the run game cause they don’t light it up after 6-7 attempts. The line and backs need to get into a bit of a groove. We all used to hate run,run pass and the predictability. However buffalo didn’t have a quarterback or offense you’d feel comfortably being in a 3rd and 7 or something back then. That’s not the case anymore. I would love to see a game where they line up in a traditional set under center and pound out a solid 20 attempts in a half. I get Allen is an MVP and the best player on the team. And they’re capable of putting up big points and blowing someone out. But what good is that if you can’t balance things out when you really need it. I don’t wanna hear about how slow singletary is, or how moss falls down every 3 yards when he’s touched. Nobody is going to convince me buffalos 3 backs are worse than Jeff Wilson, or Khalil Herbert, or mark Ingram who is like 70 in running back years. Buffalo simply doesn’t have the attempts or willingness to stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: Keep blaming the backs and line.. But they are bottom 5 in rush attempts if you take allens attempts away. Sometimes the run doesn’t work or it takes a bit to get going. Cleveland or San Fran and some of these teams don’t just abandon the run game cause they don’t light it up after 6-7 attempts. The line and backs need to get into a bit of a groove. We all used to hate run,run pass and the predictability. However buffalo didn’t have a quarterback or offense you’d feel comfortably being in a 3rd and 7 or something back then. That’s not the case anymore. I would love to see a game where they line up in a traditional set under center and pound out a solid 20 attempts in a half. I get Allen is an MVP and the best player on the team. And they’re capable of putting up big points and blowing someone out. But what good is that if you can’t balance things out when you really need it. I don’t wanna hear about how slow singletary is, or how moss falls down every 3 yards when he’s touched. Nobody is going to convince me buffalos 3 backs are worse than Jeff Wilson, or Khalil Herbert, or mark Ingram who is like 70 in running back years. Buffalo simply doesn’t have the attempts or willingness to stick with it. That's a chicken or the egg argument. Are they bottom 5 in run attempts because they are being ignored or are they bottom 5 in attempts because they aren't producing anything when they do carry the ball? The Rams game gave me hope. The Titans game, not so much. Not sure we even count the Miami game is was such an out of the ordinary situation. Who knows...maybe they will start improving in the coming weeks. I'm not holding my breath, but it's possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) I think it funny what they’ve done here. Last year it was Singletary and Moss in a pretty even rotation, late in the season they go to one guy and something seems to click. This year they draft Cook and my expectations were he’d be a 3rd down back or a change up because of his speed and Singletary would be the main guy. Turns out we’re back to Singletary/Moss rotation with a little dose of Cook. How can any of these guys get any rhythm? Edited September 28, 2022 by BananaB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: Keep blaming the backs and line.. But they are bottom 5 in rush attempts if you take allens attempts away. Sometimes the run doesn’t work or it takes a bit to get going. Cleveland or San Fran and some of these teams don’t just abandon the run game cause they don’t light it up after 6-7 attempts. The line and backs need to get into a bit of a groove. We all used to hate run,run pass and the predictability. However buffalo didn’t have a quarterback or offense you’d feel comfortably being in a 3rd and 7 or something back then. That’s not the case anymore. I would love to see a game where they line up in a traditional set under center and pound out a solid 20 attempts in a half. I get Allen is an MVP and the best player on the team. And they’re capable of putting up big points and blowing someone out. But what good is that if you can’t balance things out when you really need it. I don’t wanna hear about how slow singletary is, or how moss falls down every 3 yards when he’s touched. Nobody is going to convince me buffalos 3 backs are worse than Jeff Wilson, or Khalil Herbert, or mark Ingram who is like 70 in running back years. Buffalo simply doesn’t have the attempts or willingness to stick with it. To be fair, there shouldn’t be a willingness to stick with the running game when moving the ball through the air is what we do best. One of the most egregious drives of the game was that run, run, pass on the 8 yard line with Moss where Allen was strip sacked. Almost every run feels like a throwaway down because the line doesn’t consistently move people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzShowUsYourTitz Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 hours ago, JoPoy88 said: We don’t need to run more. Agreed! We need to be able to run / pound the ball on 3rd and 2, 4th and 2 and at the goal line AND not use Josh every time. C’mon Boys! LFG!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, Billz4ever said: That's a chicken or the egg argument. Are they bottom 5 in run attempts because they are being ignored or are they bottom 5 in attempts because they aren't producing anything when they do carry the ball? The Rams game gave me hope. The Titans game, not so much. Not sure we even count the Miami game is was such an out of the ordinary situation. Who knows...maybe they will start improving in the coming weeks. I'm not holding my breath, but it's possible. Other teams stick with the balance even if it’s not working. Unless they go down big on the scoreboard. Buffalo never even trailed until midway through the Miami game. They crushed Tennessee. Other than padding Allen’s stats they should have worked more on the run game with the starters in there. Im not advocating for them to run non stop every week. Just one game to see if they can really make it work. 18 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: To be fair, there shouldn’t be a willingness to stick with the running game when moving the ball through the air is what we do best. One of the most egregious drives of the game was that run, run, pass on the 8 yard line with Moss where Allen was strip sacked. Almost every run feels like a throwaway down because the line doesn’t consistently move people. I’m not looking to take the ball out of Allen’s hands long term. And a lot of the run calls are trash. They just did the slowest RPO or maybe read options ever against Miami. It got blown up so fast each time I’m not even sure what it was supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Still wish they would've moved up and grabbed JT28 instead of staying pat and taking Epenesa😢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllin Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) For some reason it looked like the last 2 opponents didn't respect the pass. Tennesse learned the hard way getting burned on multiple PA's, while the dolphins D seemed to fair much better but got away with a lot of lucky breaks (missed TD's, fgs etc) Edited September 28, 2022 by motorj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZSanta Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 This is uncanny, but while on my commute home from work tonight I was putting together a post similar to this in my head and was planning to submit when I got home. You beat me to it ItaliansBills. They had some promise this preseason with the run game. I was hoping Kromer, along with Dorsey, might have made a difference. No mater how many times the 0-line changes its the same result. Our backs have no holes to run through on game day. You would think with the threat of Josh throwing the ball all over the field, that would give our offense an obvious advantage in the run game. I think if we can get a solid run game on a consistent basis they would be unstoppable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) Has anyone looked at the snap counts from the Miami game? How are you running the ball with that offensive line we finished the game with? Tennessee was a pass heavy game plan I’m sure because the front 7 is their strength and the weaknesses are at corner kc claimed they got smoked in the Super Bowl because they were missing a few offensive linemen….we were missing like 5 on Sunday Edited September 28, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Billz4ever said: It doesn't matter who's back there. Outside of the Rams game, the O-line has gotten zero push. Our RB's have been lucky to get out of the backfield. No push from the line, no hole opened, nothing. The Bills lack a RB who has the combination of vision and speed. Motor has the vision, but not the speed necessary to hit the hole once he sees it. Moss is basically a run through wall type back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGORDO Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Jauron loves this thread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 All the teams, ALL THE TEAMS…with passing over expected yards are good teams, with good records. That includes buffalo (obviously), KC, MIA, LAC, and BAL. this run the ball more **** is stupid it needs to go. Learn what year it is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 4 hours ago, BananaB said: I think it funny what they’ve done here. Last year it was Singletary and Moss in a pretty even rotation, late in the season they go to one guy and something seems to click. This year they draft Cook and my expectations were he’d be a 3rd down back or a change up because of his speed and Singletary would be the main guy. Turns out we’re back to Singletary/Moss rotation with a little dose of Cook. How can any of these guys get any rhythm? Cook hasn’t looked ready or “ in the game” mentally when given his few opportunities, save for a few carries in garbage time. We remember his fumble vs Rams. Looked like he had a chance at a big gainer vs Miami on a pass in the flat but forgot to catch the ball before taking off upfield. These are not the kind of things that convince coaches a rookie RB needs more touches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 The three biggest problems in the run game are: Offensive Line. Offensive Line. Offensive Line. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Bills Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Daboll fell into this trap and now Dorsey is doing it too. At least Ken is taking some pressure off JA with all the dumpoffs. We've just never committed to good run blocking olineman or dynamic RB's. I have zero faith in us ever converting a 3rd & 1 or 4th & 1 without Josh having to do some stupid acrobatic play. If you want to enjoy 17's services for the next 10-12 years these coaches better figure it out. Me either; in 3rd and 1 situation i always have bad feeling to get it. Too many times our backs got stopped at the LOS with no gain. If we find a way to improve our running game a bir more, than yes we would be unstoppable. I repeat: just between the 100 and 150 total yards from our three backs combined, don’t think is something impossibile. 12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Hate the lack of speed from these guys. Hate the RPO because both qb and rb are starting from a dead stopped position. The rb has no momentum attacking whatever hole is available. Again i agree with you. Our backs start always without any speed; then change this and use different schemes where they get the ball in speed, it would be a different story to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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