Bills sign Dawson Knox to 4-year $53.6 mill extension ($31 mill gtd) through 2026

[Einstein]

23 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Most people were happy. @Back2Buff @Einstein @Wayne Arnold were not fans of the extension. And they took heat for it.

Yeah I got ganged up on in this thread for being right.

 

That being said, I don't mind having Knox on the team. I think he really does add something both from his blocking ability and his leadership. 

I just never thought that those skills were worth a top 5 TE contract. It's just wild to think he makes only $1M less a year than Travis Kelce, and yet averages only 34 receptions per year.

[Shortchaz]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Yeah I got ganged up on in this thread for being right.

 

That being said, I don't mind having Knox on the team. I think he really does add something both from his blocking ability and his leadership. 

I just never thought that those skills were worth a top 5 TE contract. It's just wild to think he makes only $1M less a year than Travis Kelce, and yet averages only 34 receptions per year.

I wonder if this was a case of beane self congratulating for drafting a project player. 
 

I.e., “hey look I drafted a top 5 TE in the third  round. he has to be top 5, look at his salary.”

[BeastMaster]

This contract was remarkably bad, and given our current cap woes, it's still quite terrible.

 

This is one contract that we just really didn't need to hand out, and it really makes me pause on Brandon Beane more than anything else he's done

 

 

[Virgil]

I’m a huge Knox fan and we could all the see potential in him.  At the time of the extension, there was no way to see Kincaid falling into our laps.  
 

With that being said, I believed at the time we overpaid as I don’t think any other team would have given him even close to that much money. 
 

Granted, if we actually start using him again alongside Kincaid for the weapons they can be, money well spent.  Sadly, we don’t seem to have that playcalling capacity 

[BarleyNY]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:19 AM, RangerDave said:

And yet, when the contract was announced, all of TSW was happy.   No one said it was bad judgment at the time.

  

 

 

 

My opinion is the same now as it was then - a modest overpay. It was a four year, $52M extension, which is paying him $54.4M over 5 years. Is $13M AAV on the extension too much? I thought $10M AAV would have been more appropriate for his value, but at the same time some TEs were getting paid and Knox had great red zone production. So I can see how it got above that $10M AAV. A bit of an overpay, but nothing egregious IMO. 

[SoTier]

23 hours ago, RussellDopeland said:

Classic fan mentality in this thread. Since Kincaid has emerged, they advocate for trading Knox..."He makes too much money!!" They act like they're paying Knox out of their own bank accounts. If Beane were to listen to them, trade Knox for a 4th rounder, and use that pick on the BPA; then the Bills end up with, let's say, a backup OT. Then in week 3, when Kindaid pulls a hamstring, Morris or some scrub rookie/street free agent ends up starting at TE. Then the same fans that b!tched about Knox's contract rant about the team not having any depth and what a poor job of roster construction Beane has done.

 

More importantly to the idea that the Bills need 2 legit TEs, when Knox was injured this past season, the offense struggled, including Kincaid.  When Knox came back, the offfense improved significantly.  The Bills want to run a lot of 2 TE sets so that they can run or pass with the same personnel on the field, making it harder on defenses.   They need to have two legitimate pass catching TEs.

[JaCrispy]

I hated this deal the moment I heard about it…Now, it is wrapped around the Bills’ neck like an albatross…

[Gunsgoodtime]

Hated it the day is was announced, contract was totally underserved, hate it even worse now.  

[Brand J]

47 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

More importantly to the idea that the Bills need 2 legit TEs, when Knox was injured this past season, the offense struggled, including Kincaid.  When Knox came back, the offfense improved significantly.  The Bills want to run a lot of 2 TE sets so that they can run or pass with the same personnel on the field, making it harder on defenses.   They need to have two legitimate pass catching TEs.

This was true under Dorsey. I think his vision for the offense was a Gronk/Hernandez version with two viable threats. I can’t remember the percentages, but when Brady took over they ran much less two TE sets, even when Knox came back from injury. Overall I believe Knox only saw the field around 30% of the time under Brady. Will that change with a full offseason to incorporate his vision? We shall see…

[billsfan89]

Knox and Von are the teams only bad contracts and even though Knox is overpaid he still can be a productive player. Knox is a really good and flexible blocker and he is a very tough physical runner after the catch which helps set the tone of the offense. I also think Knox is not a bad receiver even despite his drops he’s just not a top 10 TE receiving wise.

 

So while I think Knox is over paid he at least provides a solid level of production. I do hope that they use Knox as a fullback for 10 or so snaps a game and utilize his abilities to flex out and get more versatility out of the offense.

[Warriorspikes51]

Didn’t we struggle this year when Knox was out of the lineup?

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Didn’t we struggle this year when Knox was out of the lineup?

 

We averaged 26 points per game when Knox was out.

 

We lost against Denver because we had 12 defenders on the field. And we lost against Philly after scoring 34 points. Maybe he would have helped against Cinci 🤷🏻‍♂️

[JaCrispy]

Every time I log in and see the title of this thread on the front page, I vomit, a little more, in my mouth…🤮

Edited February 26 by JaCrispy

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

Every time I log in and see the title of this thread on the front, I vomit, a little more, in my mouth…🤮

I saw it the other day after Araiza signed with the Chiefs, I thought it was a new extension, I almost threw my phone lol

[Turk71]

It was a terrible contract then that looked even worse when they drafted Kincaid in the 1st round right after he signed it; and even worse again when Kincaid showed he was a much better te in his rookie year than Knox ever will be. 

 Knox was never anything special and never will be. 

 P.S. Knox was rated 55th out of 72 qualifying tes last season while being ~5th highest paid.......the $14 million dollar per year man. Ugh

Edited February 26 by Turk71

[John from Riverside]

14 hours ago, Einstein said:

Yeah I got ganged up on in this thread for being right.

 

That being said, I don't mind having Knox on the team. I think he really does add something both from his blocking ability and his leadership. 

I just never thought that those skills were worth a top 5 TE contract. It's just wild to think he makes only $1M less a year than Travis Kelce, and yet averages only 34 receptions per year.

I think those reception numbers would be up if we had not drafted an elite tied end but it is what it is

[Turk71]

It's pretty funny reading the first few pages of this thread..... All the comments that have aged so terribly and how those with the audacity to question Knox' talent or Beane's wisdom offering him such a ridiculous contract were vilified.  How dare they question Knox or Beane...  😆

Edited February 26 by Turk71

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think those reception numbers would be up if we had not drafted an elite tied end but it is what it is

 

And if Knox hadn't missed a third of the year with wrist surgery? Honestly the people using 2023 as proof that they were "right" on Dawson Knox are premature in the extreme. 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think those reception numbers would be up if we had not drafted an elite tied end but it is what it is

 

That's the most puzzling thing.  It seems that with us, sometimes the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and they're acting independently.

 

Same thing with Hines, we trade for a prolific pass catching RB, talk about how he'll be used, and then don't use him, at all.  ... as one example.  

 

 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And if Knox hadn't missed a third of the year with wrist surgery? Honestly the people using 2023 as proof that they were "right" on Dawson Knox are premature in the extreme. 

Many have an agenda, and myopically have a 2023 takeaway "Knox can't catch" and they willfully discard the Info that Know was playing with broken wrist.

My takeaway, (having broke my wrist before) is that Knox is an even tougher MFer than I thought.  Respect

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's the most puzzling thing.  It seems that with us, sometimes the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and they're acting independently.

 

Same thing with Hines, we trade for a prolific pass catching RB, talk about how he'll be used, and then don't use him, at all.  ... as one example.  

 

 

 

I don't think they planned to draft a tight end. They planned to draft a receiver but knew they needed a weapon for Josh and Dalton is more a receiver than a two way tight end in any event at this point. Of his 784 offensive snaps in 2023 he only played tight end on 247 of those and almost 50% came in the five games Knox missed. He was 50% a slot receiver, 31% a tight end, 18% split wide and 1% in the backfield. So I don't think they drafted him for his tight end skill so much as they drafted him for his pass catching. Not that I'm arguing receiving tight ends and wide receivers are completely interchangeable, they are not. And while the Bills played a fair amount of 12 personnel in 2023 they have to remain balanced with 11. But I don't think they were planning to replace Knox going into the 2023 draft, or coming out of it. However, where they are now I'm not sure they are going to be able to be a 60% plus 12 personnel team. But equally I don't think you can yet go heavy 11 with Dalton Kincaid and have the flexibility to run or pass down to down. They are going to have to be a bit more package specific with them in the short term. I suspect another year of both of them, let Kincaid work on his blocking (there was some improvement as 2023 wore on) and then next spring I can imagine them taking calls for Knox for a mid round pick. As long as he continues to be an effective redzone weapon (and at the moment in the redzone I think Knox is still BETTER than Kincaid) he will have trade value. 

 

On the pass receiving back thing I think you have more of a point about there being a disconnect somewhere. Beane has obsessed over pass catching backs since he has been here. They have had multiple goes at filling that role - from TJ Yeldon, to the guy they tried to get from Washington (McKissic), to drafting Cook and talking specifically about his ability as a receiver to trading for Hines. But they have never truly committed to it as part of their offense. Check downs are not actually Josh's strongest suit. His ball placement is better 25 yards downfield than it is sometimes on those check down routes. Joe Brady used the back a lot both at LSU and at Carolina, and showed signs of committing to it last year when he took over so maybe finally they will be in sync - and if Cook can clean up the concentration drops in the redzone they could be onto something. But that will be after at least 5 years of trying!

 

The other area where I have always felt they were muddled in their thinking is the type of oline they wanted and tried to build. They veered from big physical run graders, to athletic guys who can move laterally, and ended up with a cobbled together mess for about 3 seasons. That can only be a disconnect Beane and the coaching staff as to scheme and style. I think they have consistently wanted to build a zone run game but that is really hard with a Quarterback who wants to be in the gun as much as Josh. I dunno, just feel like Daboll and Dorsey were both culpable for trying to force something that wasn't working and McDermott and Beane were ultimately culpable for not setting a clearer direction of travel. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Move Knox to defensive end. 😉

[Back2Buff]

On 2/24/2024 at 12:02 PM, Nephilim17 said:

Most people were happy. @Back2Buff @Einstein @Wayne Arnold were not fans of the extension. And they took heat for it.

 

You are not allowed to criticize Allen and Beane on this board.  This fanbase has rose colored glasses constantly on for these two.

[blitzboy54]

I don't get this, I thought the first contract was too generous for a guy that wasn't that good. He basically lost his starting job to Kincaid. 

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And if Knox hadn't missed a third of the year with wrist surgery? Honestly the people using 2023 as proof that they were "right" on Dawson Knox are premature in the extreme. 

Or if he hand not played a significant portion of the season with a broken wrist. 

[Brand J]

Knox is a good player. A bit inconsistent, but he’s good. His true value lies somewhere between $8-$10M/yr and is likely what he would have got had he hit the open market prior to this offseason (where I expect a number of deals to be inflated). He’s not only making a bit more than he should, but his importance as a receiver has lessened with the addition of Kincaid. It’s not a Star Lotuleile egregious contract, but it isn’t one of Beane’s better decisions/extensions.
 

Similarly, I have no idea what he was thinking giving Diggs a 4 yr $96M extension at his age. Diggs was due a pay raise, but should’ve got half the length. A 2 yr $48M extension would’ve made much more sense and he’d be a 32 year old when it expired, looking for what would likely be his final contract. That deal was probably worse than Knox’s. The Von contract was worse than all, but only because of injury. After shedding a number of guys and fixing the cap issues when he first became GM, Bills are now 32nd ranked in cap because of Beane’s bad spending.

[BuffaloRebound]

12 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Knox is a good player. A bit inconsistent, but he’s good. His true value lies somewhere between $8-$10M/yr and is likely what he would have got had he hit the open market prior to this offseason (where I expect a number of deals to be inflated). He’s not only making a bit more than he should, but his importance as a receiver has lessened with the addition of Kincaid. It’s not a Star Lotuleile egregious contract, but it isn’t one of Beane’s better decisions/extensions.
 

Similarly, I have no idea what he was thinking giving Diggs a 4 yr $96M extension at his age. Diggs was due a pay raise, but should’ve got half the length. A 2 yr $48M extension would’ve made much more sense and he’d be a 32 year old when it expired, looking for what would likely be his final contract. That deal was probably worse than Knox’s. The Von contract was worse than all, but only because of injury. After shedding a number of guys and fixing the cap issues when he first became GM, Bills are now 32nd ranked in cap because of Beane’s bad spending.

Yet we were still the 2 seed the last 2 years.  The problem is if these bad contracts aren’t addressed properly going forward.  Beane was just handed a giant gift with the huge cap increase this year and going forward.  

[Brand J]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Yet we were still the 2 seed the last 2 years.  The problem is if these bad contracts aren’t addressed properly going forward.  Beane was just handed a giant gift with the huge cap increase this year and going forward.  

Oh yeah, things could def be worse. We could be 31st in cap savings and not nearly as competitive (Saints). A lot of that has to do with our QB though. Things would be quite different if David Carr was throwing passes for us. 

[BuffaloRebound]

5 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Oh yeah, things could def be worse. We could be 31st in cap savings and not nearly as competitive (Saints). A lot of that has to do with our QB though. Things would be quite different if David Carr was throwing passes for us. 

Agreed.  We won 6 games in row including a playoff game and took KC to the brink with no or minimal contributions from Tre, Milano, Von, and Knox… 4 of our 7 highest cap hits.  I will be disappointed if Beane doesn’t use the next 3 weeks to clean up the cap.  

[ColoradoBills]

Knox cost $2.6M in 2022 and $6.3M in 2023 in cap hits.

This season his $14.3M is more than his worth BUT if Beane wants to move on from him next year he has a $7.8M dead cap hit.

 

It's not as bad as people make it out to be.  I don't see him on the team after 2024 unless he really tears it up.

[Warriorspikes51]

59 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Knox cost $2.6M in 2022 and $6.3M in 2023 in cap hits.

This season his $14.3M is more than his worth BUT if Beane wants to move on from him next year he has a $7.8M dead cap hit.

 

It's not as bad as people make it out to be.  I don't see him on the team after 2024 unless he really tears it up.

 

I think he is a quality complementary piece and has proven valuable when targeted in the red zone.  

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

Knox cost $2.6M in 2022 and $6.3M in 2023 in cap hits.

This season his $14.3M is more than his worth BUT if Beane wants to move on from him next year he has a $7.8M dead cap hit.

 

It's not as bad as people make it out to be.  I don't see him on the team after 2024 unless he really tears it up.

 

I could see Knox being a team guy and renegotiating, even taking less, to stay with Josh and the team.  

[BuffBillsForLife]

Knox is a good player but he's being paid like he's an elite player when he's not even the best TE on the team.

[Bermuda Triangle]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And if Knox hadn't missed a third of the year with wrist surgery? Honestly the people using 2023 as proof that they were "right" on Dawson Knox are premature in the extreme. 

He misses time every year.  Unreliable hands and unreliable, as far as availability is concerned.

[Warriorspikes51]

He's a Nashville guy right?  Anyone know the ramifications of trading him $ wise?   Titans have boatloads of space if interested.  Maybe he's worth a 4th? 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

16 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

He's a Nashville guy right?  Anyone know the ramifications of trading him $ wise?   Titans have boatloads of space if interested.  Maybe he's worth a 4th? 

There is almost no way to unload Knox without eating his dead cap.