Contract Restructures

[marck]

If the Bills restructure let’s say Tredavious’s deal at add another 6.5 million in cap space do you think it’s money for next year, an extension for Edmunds or Poyer or to bring in another higher priced player in a trade.

[Coach Tuesday]

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, marck said:

If the Bills restructure let’s say Tredavious’s deal at add another 6.5 million in cap space do you think it’s money for next year, an extension for Edmunds or Poyer or to bring in another higher priced player in a trade.

 

I'm good with that idea.  I would restructure Tre since he's worked his tail off to come back. Reward him with $$$ then a Poyer extension with good amount of guaranteed $$$$. That would really boost team morale.  You could look to acquire a player. Personally I wouldn't mind another good veteran DE via trade.  I don't have enough confidence in anyone after Von and Greg.  I wanted to sign Carlos Dunlap.  We should also add OBJ 

[mushypeaches]

It seems unlikely that they're going to do anything with Tre's contract until he is healthy and back to 100%

[Alphadawg7]

If we freed up cap space and didn't spend it on our own players, I think it could have a negative impact on the locker room.  We have 4 key (and beloved amongst their teammates) players in that locker room, 2 from each side of the ball, in need of a new contract:  Poyer, Edmunds, Knox, and Devin...not mention Ed Oliver will be in his 5th year option next year and in line for a new deal.  So, I would be shocked if we restructured and then spent the money on someone outside the team.  

 

If we free any cap space up, my guess is Poyer gets an extension before the season starts.  I think the plan is to wait and see how this season plays out with the other 3 right now.  

[No_Matter_What]

9 minutes ago, marck said:

If the Bills restructure let’s say Tredavious’s deal at add another 6.5 million in cap space do you think it’s money for next year, an extension for Edmunds or Poyer or to bring in another higher priced player in a trade.

Right now we don't have enough cap space once 53man roster kicks in + PS starts to count.

 

Plus we need some space for in season moves - when someone goes to IR for 3 weeks you need to replace him and it costs money.

 

So neither of your options.

 

And fwiw, any extension will likely LOWER cap hit for said player, so no need to create cap space for those. What Beane said today lowers the chance that Poyer is extended before season starts.

[YoloinOhio]

I think they just need to create space once they need to be under the cap with 53 players because the top 51 rule will go away. They are right against the cap right now. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If we freed up cap space and didn't spend it on our own players, I think it could have a negative impact on the locker room.  We have 4 key (and beloved amongst their teammates) players in that locker room, 2 from each side of the ball, in need of a new contract:  Poyer, Edmunds, Knox, and Devin...not mention Ed Oliver will be in his 5th year option next year and in line for a new deal.  So, I would be shocked if we restructured and then spent the money on someone outside the team.  

 

If we free any cap space up, my guess is Poyer gets an extension before the season starts.  I think the plan is to wait and see how this season plays out with the other 3 right now.  

 

I think the plan with Po is very much to wait. Ed Oliver will be the #1 priority next offseason. Then Knox, Edmunds and Gabe.

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think they just need to create space once they need to be under the cap with 53 players because the top 51 rule will go away. They are right against the cap right now. 

 

But the top 51 are not all making the roster. There are some easy moves. Haack was the first of those.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think they just need to create space once they need to be under the cap with 53 players because the top 51 rule will go away. They are right against the cap right now. 

 

Direct quote from Beane today.  PS also cost a couple of million nowadays.

Tre already had a restructure last year and so have others.  It's time for Dion to get his.

[No_Matter_What]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the plan with Po is very much to wait. Ed Oliver will be the #1 priority next offseason. Then Knox, Edmunds and Gabe.

 

But the top 51 are not all making the roster. There are some easy moves. Haack was the first of those.

If you imply that cutting some players from current top 51 will save us money I think you are wrong. Unless we cut Matakevich or trade Howard we are not saving anything.

 

Poyer situation is really interesting. You say "wait". I fully agree that the best solution for team is not to extend him this year, and probably not to extend him at all. I don't think we can afford him. However, it is hard to believe that he will just play this season without any realistic extension talks. I would really love to know what is Beane doing re Poyer.

[K-9]

45 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Right now we don't have enough cap space once 53man roster kicks in + PS starts to count.

 

Plus we need some space for in season moves - when someone goes to IR for 3 weeks you need to replace him and it costs money.

 

So neither of your options.

 

And fwiw, any extension will likely LOWER cap hit for said player, so no need to create cap space for those. What Beane said today lowers the chance that Poyer is extended before season starts.

PS players don’t count against the cap. 

[No_Matter_What]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

PS players don’t count against the cap. 

They do. I can't find official rules quickly but just google it every NFL article says and it was like that last year. It will be around $4M this year total.

[julian]

54 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If we freed up cap space and didn't spend it on our own players, I think it could have a negative impact on the locker room.  We have 4 key (and beloved amongst their teammates) players in that locker room, 2 from each side of the ball, in need of a new contract:  Poyer, Edmunds, Knox, and Devin...not mention Ed Oliver will be in his 5th year option next year and in line for a new deal.  So, I would be shocked if we restructured and then spent the money on someone outside the team.  

 

If we free any cap space up, my guess is Poyer gets an extension before the season starts.  I think the plan is to wait and see how this season plays out with the other 3 right now.  

If Bean gives Singletary a contract after this year then he’s not the GM I think he is.. keep drafting RBs and rinse n repeat.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

They do. I can't find official rules quickly but just google it every NFL article says and it was like that last year. It will be around $4M this year total.

This is from last September, so if the rules have changed those changes have been implemented only recently:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32256800/why-nfl-practice-squads-loaded-big-name-players-know-how-rules-work-more
 

Quote

 

How does it work with the salary cap?

Practice squad players do not count against the salary cap. If someone gets promoted to the active roster, he'd be at a minimum salary that wouldn't negatively affect the cap anyway. So this is almost like a tax-free benefit, like airline points and hotel rewards programs.

 

 

[Tuco]

17 minutes ago, K-9 said:

PS players don’t count against the cap. 

Yes they do. Along with all 53 on the roster plus anybody on injured reserve.

[No_Matter_What]

Just now, K-9 said:

This is from last September, so if the rules have changed those changes have been implemented only recently:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32256800/why-nfl-practice-squads-loaded-big-name-players-know-how-rules-work-more
 

 

Google dozen other articles. That one was wrong when released.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Google dozen other articles. That one was wrong when released.

Appreciate the clarification. Can you point me to a link to get me started?

[No_Matter_What]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Appreciate the clarification. Can you point me to a link to get me started?

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/heres-how-much-money-nfl-practice-squad-players-make

 

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/01/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nfl-practice-squad-rules-2019/

 

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2021/9/1/22651069/2021-nfl-roster-cuts-explainer-practice-squad-new-england-patriots

[K-9]

Just now, No_Matter_What said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/heres-how-much-money-nfl-practice-squad-players-make

 

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/01/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nfl-practice-squad-rules-2019/

 

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2021/9/1/22651069/2021-nfl-roster-cuts-explainer-practice-squad-new-england-patriots

Figures that the one article I read and linked is the one that states PS players don’t count against the cap. Gotta love ESPN. 

[ColoradoBills]

16 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/heres-how-much-money-nfl-practice-squad-players-make

 

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/01/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nfl-practice-squad-rules-2019/

 

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2021/9/1/22651069/2021-nfl-roster-cuts-explainer-practice-squad-new-england-patriots

 

Thanks for being the guy to post what has to be said every year. 

 

FWIW

PS players get paid weekly which comes to $207k per year for each player.

There are 16 of them.

$207,000 x 16 = $3,312,000.

Edited August 23, 2022 by ColoradoBills
Updated for 2022 PS Salaries

[No_Matter_What]

10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks for being the guy to post what has to be said every year. 

 

FWIW

PS players get paid weekly which comes to $165k per year for each player.

There are 16 of them.

$165,000 x 16 = $2,640,000.

You quoted old numbers. This year its $207K for cheapest players, so at least $3,3M for full PS. And it will be more since older players get more AFAIK.

Edited August 23, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

You qouted old numbers. This year its $207K for cheapest players, so at least $3,3M for full PS. And it will be more since older players get more AFAIK.

 

I sure did.  Used last year's numbers.  I will edit my post.

Thanks

[Mr. WEO]

hmmm...Edmunds thread. 

 

nice

[Tuco]

Here's the salary cap and the rule of 51 (which everybody thinks they know but most don't) explained very briefly.

 

MYTH: During the off seaqson only the top 51 salaries count against the cap.

 

TRUTH: During the off season the salary cap consists of the 51 highest salaries (in cap charge terms), plus all the cap charge from dead money, plus all prorated bonuses for players who are outside the top 51.

 

It's true. Go to Spotrac right now and scroll down past the top 51. You will see guys like Mike Love with a salary of $830,000. That figure is crossed out because it's not part of the top 51. But right below the $830,000 figure you will se $5,000. That's not crossed out because, since it's going to be charged whether Mike Love makes the team or not, it is included now. There are numerous other examples.

 

And if you still don't believe me you can go ahead and add up the cap charges for the top 51 and you will see they don't add up to anywhere near our "top 51" figure. It's only when the dead monies are added in too that the number comes up to where it really is.

 

REGULAR 53 MAN MYTH: Well there are lots of them. Suffice it to say every player under contract, including IR, PUP and practice squad players, along with all dead money, are part of the cap. The only real exception to this is a player under suspension by the league and in most cases a player on the reserve non-football injury list.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Here's the salary cap and the rule of 51 (which everybody thinks they know but most don't) explained very briefly.

 

MYTH: During the off seaqson only the top 51 salaries count against the cap.

 

TRUTH: During the off season the salary cap consists of the 51 highest salaries (in cap charge terms), plus all the cap charge from dead money, plus all prorated bonuses for players who are outside the top 51.

 

It's true. Go to Spotrac right now and scroll down past the top 51. You will see guys like Mike Love with a salary of $830,000. That figure is crossed out because it's not part of the top 51. But right below the $830,000 figure you will se $5,000. That's not crossed out because, since it's going to be charged whether Mike Love makes the team or not, it is included now. There are numerous other examples.

 

And if you still don't believe me you can go ahead and add up the cap charges for the top 51 and you will see they don't add up to anywhere near our "top 51" figure. It's only when the dead monies are added in too that the number comes up to where it really is.

 

REGULAR 53 MAN MYTH: Well there are lots of them. Suffice it to say every player under contract, including IR, PUP and practice squad players, along with all dead money, are part of the cap. The only real exception to this is a player under suspension by the league and in most cases a player on the reserve non-football injury list.

 

All those small $s guaranteed is also one reason why Spotrac is more accurate than OTC.

OTC system won't count those numbers until the player is cut.

The other is Dead Money.  OTC never has all the players on it that need to be.

Currently OTC has 14 Dead Money players and Spotrac has 26.

 

I know it's all little stuff, but it bugs my OCD.

[muppy]

20 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Here's the salary cap and the rule of 51 (which everybody thinks they know but most don't) explained very briefly.

 

MYTH: During the off seaqson only the top 51 salaries count against the cap.

 

TRUTH: During the off season the salary cap consists of the 51 highest salaries (in cap charge terms), plus all the cap charge from dead money, plus all prorated bonuses for players who are outside the top 51.

 

It's true. Go to Spotrac right now and scroll down past the top 51. You will see guys like Mike Love with a salary of $830,000. That figure is crossed out because it's not part of the top 51. But right below the $830,000 figure you will se $5,000. That's not crossed out because, since it's going to be charged whether Mike Love makes the team or not, it is included now. There are numerous other examples.

 

And if you still don't believe me you can go ahead and add up the cap charges for the top 51 and you will see they don't add up to anywhere near our "top 51" figure. It's only when the dead monies are added in too that the number comes up to where it really is.

 

REGULAR 53 MAN MYTH: Well there are lots of them. Suffice it to say every player under contract, including IR, PUP and practice squad players, along with all dead money, are part of the cap. The only real exception to this is a player under suspension by the league and in most cases a player on the reserve non-football injury list.

I love it when you post hermano. Great season ahead GO BILLS!~!~!!!!!

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

All those small $s guaranteed is also one reason why Spotrac is more accurate than OTC.

OTC system won't count those numbers until the player is cut.

The other is Dead Money.  OTC never has all the players on it that need to be.

Currently OTC has 14 Dead Money players and Spotrac has 26.

 

I know it's all little stuff, but it bugs my OCD.

I have never read Anyone anywhere with more insight and knowledge about the NFL and their contracts than Tuco. If he posts it I'd trust it just sayin' . Not saying you don't just that he IS  Legit.

Edited August 23, 2022 by muppy

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, marck said:

If the Bills restructure let’s say Tredavious’s deal at add another 6.5 million in cap space do you think it’s money for next year, an extension for Edmunds or Poyer or to bring in another higher priced player in a trade.

 

I wouldn't do anything with Whites deal for a number of reasons.

 

And I don't see this team handing out any more extensions right now either given the tough decisions that are going to be made next offseason.

 

Beane did mention a restructure but probably would be with one of the backup/role player types on the roster.

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks for being the guy to post what has to be said every year. 

 

FWIW

PS players get paid weekly which comes to $207k per year for each player.

There are 16 of them.

$207,000 x 16 = $3,312,000.

It isn't necessarily 207,000,is it? I thought there is a range from about 9500 to 14000 weekly salary depending on service time.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Most likely a restructure of either Tre, Dawkins, or both

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If we freed up cap space and didn't spend it on our own players, I think it could have a negative impact on the locker room.  We have 4 key (and beloved amongst their teammates) players in that locker room, 2 from each side of the ball, in need of a new contract:  Poyer, Edmunds, Knox, and Devin...not mention Ed Oliver will be in his 5th year option next year and in line for a new deal.  So, I would be shocked if we restructured and then spent the money on someone outside the team.  

 

If we free any cap space up, my guess is Poyer gets an extension before the season starts.  I think the plan is to wait and see how this season plays out with the other 3 right now.  

know what does wonders for a locker room? A super bowl parade. 
 

keep stacking talent.

[ganesh]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the plan with Po is very much to wait. Ed Oliver will be the #1 priority next offseason. Then Knox, Edmunds and Gabe.

 

But the top 51 are not all making the roster. There are some easy moves. Haack was the first of those.

Knox will be a FA next march.  Unless the Bills slap the Franchise tag on him, they will have to pay him at that point.  

 

Gabe willl enter his 4th and final year of his rookie contract next season

[nosejob]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If we freed up cap space and didn't spend it on our own players, I think it could have a negative impact on the locker room.  We have 4 key (and beloved amongst their teammates) players in that locker room, 2 from each side of the ball, in need of a new contract:  Poyer, Edmunds, Knox, and Devin...not mention Ed Oliver will be in his 5th year option next year and in line for a new deal.  So, I would be shocked if we restructured and then spent the money on someone outside the team.  

 

If we free any cap space up, my guess is Poyer gets an extension before the season starts.  I think the plan is to wait and see how this season plays out with the other 3 right now.  

 

I would give first a couple mil. bonus and tell him ...let's get thru the season, or maybe a 2 yr. contract, but like I said before, he ain't no Derwin James.  They have to hold him to  deal with us this year. A long term deal for him is not too smart and I'm sure he knows it. I love him, but let's give him some cash this year upfront and figure it out later.

 

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think the plan with Po is very much to wait. Ed Oliver will be the #1 priority next offseason. Then Knox, Edmunds and Gabe.

 

But the top 51 are not all making the roster. There are some easy moves. Haack was the first of those.

 

The top 51 are not all making the roster, but then guys who are lower down and currently not counted move up and take their space.

We will currently need to have cap space for 54 guys because Boettger gets paid his full salary on PUP.

 

My conclusion is we'd have about $2M in cap space (not including PS, if they have to be included)

 

I had a try at detailing that all out if you want to have a look:

 

[RyanC883]

7 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

If you imply that cutting some players from current top 51 will save us money I think you are wrong. Unless we cut Matakevich or trade Howard we are not saving anything.

 

Poyer situation is really interesting. You say "wait". I fully agree that the best solution for team is not to extend him this year, and probably not to extend him at all. I don't think we can afford him. However, it is hard to believe that he will just play this season without any realistic extension talks. I would really love to know what is Beane doing re Poyer.

 

I agree Poyer situation is interesting.  Like if we wait, do we pay him later, hoping the cap goes up?  Are we thinking he drops off this year?  Are we anticipating trading him mid-season?  Are we thinking he's our best now, but won't be in a year or can't afford him, so lets roll with him this year.  That is my thought: he's the best we have, play him, but don't want to be tied down long term.  However, I don't think Poyer sits out, he has almost no leverage due to his age.  If he sits out the season and the Bills secondary does well (it likely does due to the other talent there) that will really hurt him.  

 

 

[purple haze]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If we freed up cap space and didn't spend it on our own players, I think it could have a negative impact on the locker room.  We have 4 key (and beloved amongst their teammates) players in that locker room, 2 from each side of the ball, in need of a new contract:  Poyer, Edmunds, Knox, and Devin...not mention Ed Oliver will be in his 5th year option next year and in line for a new deal.  So, I would be shocked if we restructured and then spent the money on someone outside the team.  

 

If we free any cap space up, my guess is Poyer gets an extension before the season starts.  I think the plan is to wait and see how this season plays out with the other 3 right now.  

Agree on Poyer.  But I believe one of the others gets done during the season.  Like what happened with Taron Johnson.  My bet is Knox.  

[Punching Bag]

I cannot see Poyer getting the extension at the money he is looking for.

He will be making more money than Hyde and then Bills encounter same issue following year.

 

Thought at one point they had given extensions so Poyer and Hyde contracts ended same time since as a duo they are IMO more valuable than each singlely.

 

[DasNootz]

14 hours ago, ganesh said:

Knox will be a FA next march.  Unless the Bills slap the Franchise tag on him, they will have to pay him at that point.  

I know he seems committed to Buffalo - but in the back of my mind, I fear him leaving to go to Tennessee in his prime.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

I know he seems committed to Buffalo - but in the back of my mind, I fear him leaving to go to Tennessee in his prime.

 

If they let Knox go to Tennessee in his prime in the name of keeping ED OLIVER, I will lose my mind.

 

First, they pass up on a guy who's set franchise records receiving in Seattle for him, then let the best TE we've had in 20 years go? Yeah that wouldn't be good.

 

[mrags]

26 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

If they let Knox go to Tennessee in his prime in the name of keeping ED OLIVER, I will lose my mind.

 

First, they pass up on a guy who's set franchise records receiving in Seattle for him, then let the best TE we've had in 20 years go? Yeah that wouldn't be good.

 

I would also agree with this. I really like Ed. But I’d let Ed go in a heartbeat to keep Knox and his relationship with Josh and this offense. 
 

He will also be cheaper, and harder to replace than Oliver imo. Part of the reason we went all in on DT and DE In the off-season imo. They find out if they can go with Phillips, Jones, Settle, and Bryant going forward without Ed before making the decision on him. Then they can go out and draft a young kid in rounds 1-3 to replace him. JMO

[mrags]

17 hours ago, Georgie said:

It isn't necessarily 207,000,is it? I thought there is a range from about 9500 to 14000 weekly salary depending on service time.

I think this is more accurate. Pretty sure it depends on multiple things. Pretty site these guys sign contract with practice squad also. Some players will be more desired than others as well. For example, I highly doubt a QB is making the same as a LB or RB.