STHs beware

[Buffalo Boy]

12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I can barely afford single game tickets now!!  

It’s only going to get worse once these PSLs kick in😞

[First Round Bust]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Yeah, like I said.  I'd love for Highmark to be chock full of Bills fans and I'm sure that's every team's wish.

 

I just have an issue with a retailer dictating how you use what you've bought from them.  

 

But I get it.  It's their choice/right.  And it's also something - as a consumer - I know about going into it.

so the basic question to the STH/STM do you purchase for the purpose of consumption or resell - you have the right to either...but my question to the NFL teams..at what point does this violate your policy...i guess its years (of monitoring)....teams likley give you time for some kind of personal hardship...

[LabattBlue]

What is STM?

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, LeviF said:

Come back and talk when we're on year 30 of having a first ballot HOFer at QB.

I hope I am around that long. 😂

[John from Riverside]

OK educate me here is this argument over selling the ticket that you might sell it to an opposing teams fan Diluting the home-field advantage thing am I missing something

[unbillievable]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

OK educate me here is this argument over selling the ticket that you might sell it to an opposing teams fan Diluting the home-field advantage thing am I missing something

 

Scalpers inflate ticket prices which prevent fans from attending games.

Part of the strategy of keeping prices low is to grow a team's fanbase. It's a trade-off from increasing it on their own and attracting only corporate attendees.

 

Greenbay can eliminate the wait list by simply raising prices to match the market.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I have a friend who is a ticket broker, and his explanation of his role is "I sell the tickets for what they are worth - which is what someone is willing to pay for them".  The team sells them to him at a discount so they lose risk of not selling seats and they'll make a certain amount for every game.  

 

When the team is good?  This saturates the single game ticket market with massively expensive tickets because people all want to go, there aren't season tickets available etc.  But when the team was in a 17 year drought, they were calling the brokers every year to renew their seasons early.  

 

When the team is bad (and the sabres are a great example of this)?  The brokers are the only way you get butts in the seats.  The sabres went away from brokers this year and people didn't want to go.  Why?  Because the broker strategy devalued the product so much.  Why would i want to pay 50 bucks a seat when it was 10 in 2019.  I know when they fired John Sinclair people were all up in arms because he was a friend or whatever, but he worked with brokers heavily to fill that stadium however he could.  Likely at the cost of profitability.

 

[Mr Info]

32 minutes ago, BTB said:

What is STM?

Season Ticket Member

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

9 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

Scalpers inflate ticket prices which prevent fans from attending games.

Part of the strategy of keeping prices low is to grow a team's fanbase. It's a trade-off from increasing it on their own and attracting only corporate attendees.

 

Greenbay can eliminate the wait list by simply raising prices to match the market.

 

Thats the thing - nobody wants to do this because then they have "the most expensive tickets on the market"

36 minutes ago, First Round Bust said:

so the basic question to the STH/STM do you purchase for the purpose of consumption or resell - you have the right to either...but my question to the NFL teams..at what point does this violate your policy...i guess its years (of monitoring)....teams likley give you time for some kind of personal hardship...

 

It's easy to have a policy when you have a wait list.  When you are selling fewer season tickets like say the Jaguars - you'll take what you can get to be able to say "we have 50,000 season ticket holders.  Sure there are blocks of seats that are given to brokers, and i sold them at 60 cents on the dollar (or less) but its good press.  

[LabattBlue]

2 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

Season Ticket Member

Learn something new everyday.  Supposed to make you feel more important as they empty your wallet? 😂

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

Is forbidding resale a stipulation of the STH agreement? If not, Pack might be opening up to some class action.

 

It is not a stipulation of the Bills STH agreement. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

It’s only going to get worse once these PSLs kick in😞

 

I don't know that we'll get PSLs with the deal the pegulas got from state/county.  

[Motorin']

47 minutes ago, First Round Bust said:

so the basic question to the STH/STM do you purchase for the purpose of consumption or resell - you have the right to either...but my question to the NFL teams..at what point does this violate your policy...i guess its years (of monitoring)....teams likley give you time for some kind of personal hardship...

 

An interesting thing is purchasing for the purpose of reselling makes your Season Ticket purchase a business deduction. If you end up making more than you spent you'll owe taxes, but if you lose money it's a write off against your taxable income.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Motorin'

[Mr Info]

12 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

An interesting thing is purchasing for the purpose of reselling makes your Season Ticket purchase a business deduction. If you end up making more than you spent you'll owe taxes, but if you lose money it's a write off against your taxable income.

I believe the 1099-K threshold for reporting is now $600. Reselling a few tix to popular games makes that hill easy to climb.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

An interesting thing is purchasing for the purpose of reselling makes your Season Ticket purchase a business deduction. If you end up making more than you spent you'll owe taxes, but if you lose money it's a write off against your taxable income.

 

You need to have above a certain threshold in total ticket sales for you to have to claim it as income or a write off.  

[Motorin']

Just now, dneveu said:

 

You need to have above a certain threshold in total ticket sales for you to have to claim it as income or a write off.  

 

Says who?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Says who?

 

The government?  I didn't realize this fell in that same Etsy/Venmo 600 dollar thing though

[OldTimer1960]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

If I buy a product, then I should be able to use that product however I want to ... including re-selling it for a profit.

True if you are buying a few for your own use and for some reason want to sell some games.  This is meant to prevent big players from buying hundreds or more just to try to sell at higher prices.

[SDS]

58 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

Scalpers inflate ticket prices which prevent fans from attending games.

Part of the strategy of keeping prices low is to grow a team's fanbase. It's a trade-off from increasing it on their own and attracting only corporate attendees.

 

Greenbay can eliminate the wait list by simply raising prices to match the market.

I don’t think you said that right. Fans still attend the game, just different ones. As someone who doesn’t live close to the stadium, I depend on someone reselling their ticket, even at a confiscatory rate, in order for me to go. 

[Buffalo Junction]

2 hours ago, unbillievable said:

How long did those scalpers have to wait to get season tickets?

Well, before my grandmother got sick she put about half of her grandkids on the waiting list….. 19 years later there’s about ten more years of waiting to get season tickets…. The line shortens by about 600-900 tickets a year and there are 100k+ people waiting. 🤷‍♂️ 😂 

[Motorin']

38 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

The government?  I didn't realize this fell in that same Etsy/Venmo 600 dollar thing though

 

$600 in sales is the threshold that TM or SH have to send you a 1099, which they also send to the IRS. What determines whether your Season Ticket purchase counts as a business is whether if you're buying them for business purposes. That's to say, to primarily sell. 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Motorin'

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

Scalpers inflate ticket prices which prevent fans from attending games.

So who buys the tickets?

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

I don't know that we'll get PSLs with the deal the pegulas got from state/county.  

    I’d like to introduce you to my friend from the State…. His names Dover….Benjamin Dover…..

“Here come the PSL’s.” He tells me.

[without a drought]

The Jaguars are considering a similar policy.

[JoPoy88]

7 hours ago, Mr Info said:

There was an article today about long-time Packers STH wait-list people obtaining tix this year. 
This is a link to the article and the reason these STHs were relieved of their tix. I am a STH so it got my interest.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2022/05/20/packers-season-tickets-fans-50-year-wait/9853572002/

"The team made the determination to not renew a selection of tickets of a handful of ticketholders who held a significant number of tickets that were primarily being resold on a regular basis above face value," said Aaron Popkey, director of public affairs. "Packers season tickets are intended to be used by the ticketholder, including family and others, to attend the game. The tickets identified and not renewed were simply being resold for a profit. It was a pattern that existed for years." 

so GB ticket holders were forming little cabals to buy up blocks of seats and gouge people on the secondary market? And what’s the problem with showing them the door exactly?

[jimmy10]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

If I buy a product, then I should be able to use that product however I want to ... including re-selling it for a profit.

Especially if one first bought that product while living 700 miles away during the goddamn Chan Gailey era. 

[stuvian]

the NFL wants to monopolize ticket reselling through its own platforms. This has nothing to do with sticking up for Joe Lunchpail fan

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

If I buy a product, then I should be able to use that product however I want to ... including re-selling it for a profit.

Let's not overlook the Bills get a significant cut from NFL TicketEchange sales.

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

To clarify my previous comment ... ideally, YES.  I agree that it would be great if STHs were all actual fans of the team who intend to either attend games, or share tickets with other fans of the team.

 

But a team simply saying, "nah - we're not gonna let you renew," seems like a dangerous precedent to me.  Dangerous for the team.

 

It's reminiscent of the TB Lightening not letting anyone wearing the opposing team's jerseys into the game.  

 

How many of those STH'ers were there during the playoff drought?

[Mr. WEO]

If the new stadium has 60k of 65k as season ticket holders, doesn’t leave much left for the general public except in the secondary market.  
 

Would the Bills,  for example be more pleased with a lot of empty seats in December on TV or a fuller stadium with STH’ers making a few bucks (if any)?

 

What do they care?  Doesn’t cost them any lost dollars

Edited May 21, 2022 by Mr. WEO

[mrags]

12 hours ago, LeviF said:

 

Buy your own football team.

Technically as a STH for the Packers you do own part of the team. Just sayin 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

17 hours ago, Mr Info said:

There was an article today about long-time Packers STH wait-list people obtaining tix this year. 
This is a link to the article and the reason these STHs were relieved of their tix. I am a STH so it got my interest.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2022/05/20/packers-season-tickets-fans-50-year-wait/9853572002/

"The team made the determination to not renew a selection of tickets of a handful of ticketholders who held a significant number of tickets that were primarily being resold on a regular basis above face value," said Aaron Popkey, director of public affairs. "Packers season tickets are intended to be used by the ticketholder, including family and others, to attend the game. The tickets identified and not renewed were simply being resold for a profit. It was a pattern that existed for years." 

 

Mr. Info, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into.

 

I say, let 'em crash!

[Thurman#1]

17 hours ago, Gugny said:

If I buy a product, then I should be able to use that product however I want to ... including re-selling it for a profit.

 

 

And if I have a product that you want me to sell to you, and I don't like the way I think you're going to use it ... then I should be able to use that product however I want to, including selling it to somebody else.

 

 

12 hours ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

So who buys the tickets?

 

 

Many times it's Pittsburgh fans, Cleveland fans, fans of whatever team we're playing that week.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Don Otreply]

   Teams can an will do this because they legally can do it, (it’s a monopoly folks) they control their product not the fans who purchase tickets, seasons or not.  It is really that simple, fans can no longer game the ticket system in a way that teams feel is detrimental to their product, again, they hold a monopoly…, it’s corporate SOP to more fully control their product. STHs have zero rights concerning this decision, other than not renewing their ticket purchases. End of story. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Don Otreply

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

   Teams can an will do this because they legally can do it, (it’s a monopoly folks) they control their product not the fans who purchase tickets, seasons or not.  It is really that simple, fans can no longer game the ticket system in a way that teams feel is detrimental to their product, again, they hold a monopoly…, it’s corporate SOP to more fully control their product. STHs have zero rights concerning this decision, other than not renewing their ticket purchases. End of story. 

 

 

Yup. And I think they are convinced, probably correctly, that for other ticket buyers the product will be better if those seats are filled with more loyal fans who can make friendships and relationships in the seats. Not to mention filled with Packer fans.

 

 

19 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

Scalpers inflate ticket prices which prevent fans from attending games.

Part of the strategy of keeping prices low is to grow a team's fanbase. It's a trade-off from increasing it on their own and attracting only corporate attendees.

 

Greenbay can eliminate the wait list by simply raising prices to match the market.

 

Yup, that would eliminate the wait list.

 

And fill the stands with fans of the opponents and with corporate buyers who aren't likely to root for the team the way the fans who can afford the tickets at current prices do.

 

You're exactly right, it's a trade-off. Out of the tens of thousands of loyal great fans, letting about a hundred seats go is NOT going to make Packer fans angry about this, except for that hundred. Who weren't being good fans anyway.

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Ethan in Cleveland]

22 hours ago, Gugny said:

If I buy a product, then I should be able to use that product however I want to ... including re-selling it for a profit.

That is true. But just as you have that right so does the team have that right not to sell it to you

[RangerDave]

Anyhooo.....

 

I am a first time STH (or STM as the Bills like to call us).  Just bought them yesterday.

 

Anybody want to buy two tickets for the Bills-Jets game on December 11 for a mere $500 each??  Could be the division-deciding game!

[PromoTheRobot]

13 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

Anyhooo.....

 

I am a first time STH (or STM as the Bills like to call us).  Just bought them yesterday.

 

Anybody want to buy two tickets for the Bills-Jets game on December 11 for a mere $500 each??  Could be the division-deciding game!

 

I don't think the Bills would ever purge their season ticket rolls. Especially long time members. Things are great now but if the team ever falls back to earth, they will need every STM'er they can get, especially with PSLs. 

[zow2]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:40 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How many of those STH'ers were there during the playoff drought?

 

I had ST's for about a decade during the drought.  I'm out of town so we came in for 1-2 games per season, sold the rest.  Never made much of a profit on those but recouped some of my expense.  The popular teams like Steelers, Cowboys, Packers who come around every once in a while would sell for a lot more.

With the popularity of online sites nowadays, owning all the tix didn't make as much sense.   It's easier now to just pick a game or two that I want to attend, swipe purchase on my phone and get nice lower level seats (even though fees are ridiculous).

[Bubba Gump]

On 5/20/2022 at 12:20 PM, Gugny said:

If I buy a product, then I should be able to use that product however I want to ... including re-selling it for a profit.

 

Psst, got any coke man???