Rd 5, Pick 148 (5): WR Khalil Shakir, Boise St

[Rocky Landing]

28 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Huh?  Not even sure he got any offensive snaps other than preseason, where he showed his acceleration.

 

I don't care about his return ability.  Mckenzie can do the returns.  If Stevenson is able to provide what he did in preseason, this is exactly what this team needs. 

He wasn’t targeted once in the regular season, only in preseason. He had one long reception vs the Lions in week one of preseason (40+yards I think?) where he got zero YAC. If you watch the replay, you’ll see the Lions defender was with him step for step. It was a great catch, but was there a catch in the preseason where he got to turn on the speed? If there is, I don’t remember it. 
 

I’m just not sure what kind of speed you see out of him, other than a 4:45 40 time stat line? (Khalil Shakir had a 4:43, btw)

[Rocky Landing]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree that Stevenson didn't show a lot.  And for me, I was pretty much done with him after he fumbled on a return.  He was out there only because the Bills had lost confidence in McKenzie, and still he wasn't able to focus on holding onto the ball.  It's not fatal, but it certainly didn't help.  I said in this thread or elsewhere that Stevenson may benefit by a second year in more normal OTAs and training camp, but I'm guessing that Shakir is likely to take his job.   Stevenson may have him marginally on speed and quickness, but Shakir is going to win on brains, effectiveness, and consistency.   Just my take. 

 

As Logic says, if he wins the punt returning job against Stevenson and McKenzie, he'll be on the active roster, and he'll get occasional reps on the offense as he earns them throughout the season.  If he wins the punt returning job, Stevenson likely is toast.   Or, more likely, he gets poached off the practice squad.  

I don’t know that Stevenson does have Shakir on speed or quickness. I know there has been this narrative that Stevenson is lightning fast. I just don’t recall ever seeing it. 

[Andy1]

I remember the tape on Stevenson showed him as a real speed receiver. I think he plays a good bit faster than Shakir but Shakir may be more developed in other skills like route running, hands, etc. Will be interesting to see both compete in camp.

[Shaw66]

27 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I don’t know that Stevenson does have Shakir on speed or quickness. I know there has been this narrative that Stevenson is lightning fast. I just don’t recall ever seeing it. 

Actually, Shakir's 40 time is just slightly better than Stevenson, but Stevenson last year had the best three-cone time in history, so he has the edge on quickness.   Like you, I don't know that I ever saw it.  

 

I just keep saying that there's plenty of opportunity for rookies to grow in their first full off-season.  That's the one thing Stevenson has going for him.  

[FilthyBeast]

In hindsight might be the best pick of this draft and another Gabe Davis type of find.

 

I'm sure it's been discussed but I think this pick may seal McKenzies fate with the team and he gets cut this summer and still not sure why he was resigned in the first place as both sides should have realized it was time to move on.

[TheBrownBear]

I watched Shakir a decent amount being a West Coaster and staying up late to watch MWC and Pac-12 football.  The guy is an absolute steal for a 5th rounder.  Super productive, quick and great character and work ethic.  I think he's going to be one of the best slot receivers in the league in 3 years time.  And he's going to learn a ton from working alongside Diggs.  Really, really excited to see how he develops in Buffalo.

[MasterStrategist]

4 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

I don’t know that Stevenson does have Shakir on speed or quickness. I know there has been this narrative that Stevenson is lightning fast. I just don’t recall ever seeing it. 

Some guys are more "football fast", than track speed guys.  

 

At least in Speedy's situation, he went out for track when in high-school and wasn't considered a great "out of the blocks" type.  So I could see why he doesn't time in the 40, as expected.

 

Hoping both these guys turn in great camps, we can find a spot for both of them on the 53.

 

11 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

For what this team needs, outside WR with speed, I like Stevenson better and I think one or the other makes the team.

Speedy can play outside, but he's more a slot type as well.

 

Pretty certain that the coaching staff was working him into the Mck offensive role last year.  But it wouldn't surprise me to see him excel in year 2, he needed some nfl training, getting off the press and route tee combinations that he didn't necessarily get accustomed to in Houston.   Hope he can crack the 53 again, and think he's a much better returner than the small sample size we saw in the Reg season.

[Charles Romes]

Doesn’t have much short range burst when you look at the tape. Seems a little Sillsian 

[The Dean]

9 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Doesn’t have much short range burst when you look at the tape. Seems a little Sillsian 

 

🤔

10 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Doesn’t have much short range burst when you look at the tape. Seems a little Sillsian 

 

🤔

 

Oh, like Sills?  Not even close

[Mat68]

I think he is instantly the 4th wr.  Fills in at any of the top 3 spots. 

[Captain_Quint]

12 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

Doesn’t have much short range burst when you look at the tape. Seems a little Sillsian 

Whether he's Italian or not doesn't really matter if he does have the short range burst. 

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Was watching all of Shakir's plays in this Nevada game. Seems like he has a little delay (sometimes even a hitch) at the snap before he starts every route? You can see the other receivers getting off the line into their routes before he does. It's not a quickness thing - to my untrained eye it looks like he kind of stands there or gathers himself at the snap before he leaves the LOS (or wherever he is starting).

 

Any WR experts see the same thing? Is this normal? I don't know much about route running (my big accomplishment this year was finally learning what stacking was - thanks YouTube). Anyway, even if it is an issue, seems like an easy thing to correct.

 

In any case, he had some great plays in this game. A couple of wow catches and a nice punt return. Worth a watch regardless. I'm excited to see him in action this preseason.

 

 

 

[LEBills]

6 hours ago, Last Guy on the Bench said:

Was watching all of Shakir's plays in this Nevada game. Seems like he has a little delay (sometimes even a hitch) at the snap before he starts every route? You can see the other receivers getting off the line into their routes before he does. It's not a quickness thing - to my untrained eye it looks like he kind of stands there or gathers himself at the snap before he leaves the LOS (or wherever he is starting).

 

Any WR experts see the same thing? Is this normal? I don't know much about route running (my big accomplishment this year was finally learning what stacking was - thanks YouTube). Anyway, even if it is an issue, seems like an easy thing to correct.

 

In any case, he had some great plays in this game. A couple of wow catches and a nice punt return. Worth a watch regardless. I'm excited to see him in action this preseason.

 

 

 

Yea he does have a hitch, it was pointed out by some of the draft evaluators as well and may be part of the reason - along with the 29 inch arms - he dropped to round 5.
 

 I think the hitch can be coached out of him and really let his 97th percentile 1.49 ten yard split shine

[Last Guy on the Bench]

13 minutes ago, LEBills said:

Yea he does have a hitch, it was pointed out by some of the draft evaluators as well and may be part of the reason - along with the 29 inch arms - he dropped to round 5.
 

 I think the hitch can be coached out of him and really let his 97th percentile 1.49 ten yard split shine

Thanks, I hadn't seen that in his evaluations. Definitely seems like something he could change. It's just a habit. As you say, he's very quick.

[Richard Noggin]

On 5/2/2022 at 7:12 PM, FilthyBeast said:

In hindsight might be the best pick of this draft and another Gabe Davis type of find.

 

I'm sure it's been discussed but I think this pick may seal McKenzies fate with the team and he gets cut this summer and still not sure why he was resigned in the first place as both sides should have realized it was time to move on.

 

Your first point is interesting in that because of program status, there are college WR1s who fly under the radar every year. We get all turned around by the testing talents of 2nd and 3rd WRs from Alabama when there are these WR1s from lesser programs who produce and test reasonably well but just get undervalued. Gabriel Davis was a stud for UCF, and Khalil Shakir was a stud for BSU. There is great potential in them if they are committed to their crafts (and they escape injury). 

 

Totally disagree that McKenzie is the guy on the bubble, though. That's weird. 

[The Dean]

10 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Your first point is interesting in that because of program status, there are college WR1s who fly under the radar every year. We get all turned around by the testing talents of 2nd and 3rd WRs from Alabama when there are these WR1s from lesser programs who produce and test reasonably well but just get undervalued. Gabriel Davis was a stud for UCF, and Khalil Shakir was a stud for BSU. There is great potential in them if they are committed to their crafts (and they escape injury). 

 

Totally disagree that McKenzie is the guy on the bubble, though. That's weird. 

 

 

Me too. I don't get that at all. Wouldn't Crowder be more likely to be cut?  I actually don't think either of those guys are going anywhere, though.

[Richard Noggin]

9 hours ago, Last Guy on the Bench said:

Was watching all of Shakir's plays in this Nevada game. Seems like he has a little delay (sometimes even a hitch) at the snap before he starts every route? You can see the other receivers getting off the line into their routes before he does. It's not a quickness thing - to my untrained eye it looks like he kind of stands there or gathers himself at the snap before he leaves the LOS (or wherever he is starting).

 

Any WR experts see the same thing? Is this normal? I don't know much about route running (my big accomplishment this year was finally learning what stacking was - thanks YouTube). Anyway, even if it is an issue, seems like an easy thing to correct.

 

In any case, he had some great plays in this game. A couple of wow catches and a nice punt return. Worth a watch regardless. I'm excited to see him in action this preseason.

 

 

 

 

I do see a delayed reaction on some plays (as the game progesses), and on others a weight sink (or hitch or gathering) before launch (mostly early on). Probably related to pre-snap posture? Shakir might need a "squattier" pre-snap stance so he's already loaded up? I've never paid attention to this specifically, except maybe with Lee Evans who had a weird hand jive circular thing he did pre-snap in college that wasn't allowed in the NFL. 

[Cash]

7 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Me too. I don't get that at all. Wouldn't Crowder be more likely to be cut?  I actually don't think either of those guys are going anywhere, though.

I think there’s a fairly realistic scenario where Crowder gets cut. If it’s clear to the coaches that he’s lost a step, AND Shakir looks good enough to play the slot right away, I could see Crowder not making the team. McKenzie will be in the mix regardless, but I get the impression the Bills don’t think he can hold up to full-time work over the course of a full season. 
 

I wouldn’t bet on Crowder being cut at even money, but I would think about it at 10:1. 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Cash said:

I think there’s a fairly realistic scenario where Crowder gets cut. If it’s clear to the coaches that he’s lost a step, AND Shakir looks good enough to play the slot right away, I could see Crowder not making the team. McKenzie will be in the mix regardless, but I get the impression the Bills don’t think he can hold up to full-time work over the course of a full season. 
 

I wouldn’t bet on Crowder being cut at even money, but I would think about it at 10:1. 

 

Crowder is one of their top-3 WRs and won't be going anywhere, unless he looks to have lost a step.  Until that's the case, he's not going anywhere.

[Mat68]

11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Your first point is interesting in that because of program status, there are college WR1s who fly under the radar every year. We get all turned around by the testing talents of 2nd and 3rd WRs from Alabama when there are these WR1s from lesser programs who produce and test reasonably well but just get undervalued. Gabriel Davis was a stud for UCF, and Khalil Shakir was a stud for BSU. There is great potential in them if they are committed to their crafts (and they escape injury). 

 

Totally disagree that McKenzie is the guy on the bubble, though. That's weird. 

Mckenzie was allowed to test the market and came back 2 years in a row on below market deals.  The league has said how it feels about Mckenzie.  Buffalo to an extent has shown how it values Mckenzie.  If Shakir beats him out for Wr 4 he is on the bubble.  Shakir and Stevenson offer cheaper return options.  Kumerow is almost a lock for his blocking and teams ability with some decent hands and size.  How many Wrs do they keep?  I feel it comes down to Stevenson and Mckenzie.  Cook is probably they guy you do the gadget stuff with now.  Its a legit question.  Makes the preseason intriguing to see who steps up. 

[Sierra Foothills]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:29 PM, Charles Romes said:

Seems a little Sillsian 

 

21 hours ago, Captain_Quint said:

Whether he's Italian or not doesn't really matter if he does have the short range burst. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Totally disagree that McKenzie is the guy on the bubble, though. That's weird. 

 

5 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Mckenzie was allowed to test the market and came back 2 years in a row on below market deals.  The league has said how it feels about Mckenzie.  Buffalo to an extent has shown how it values Mckenzie.

 

McKenzie is kind of like this year's Levi Wallace... the Bills like him to a certain price point and McKenzie would prefer to stay than to leave. Barring unforeseen circumstances he'll be here for one more year.

 

3 hours ago, Cash said:

I wouldn’t bet on Crowder being cut at even money, but I would think about it at 10:1. 

 

Usually when the Bills recruit and sign a veteran free agent they treat that person with respect. It often seems the team wants to do well by the veterans. I expect Crowder will be a Bill for at least this year. I feel like they wouldn't have signed him just to cut him. That said I have a hard time seeing both Zack Moss and Duke Johnson making the team and that's a similar situation so who knows?

 

 

[CapeBreton]

2 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

Usually when the Bills recruit and sign a veteran free agent they treat that person with respect. It often seems the team wants to do well by the veterans. I expect Crowder will be a Bill for at least this year. I feel like they wouldn't have signed him just to cut him. That said I have a hard time seeing both Zack Moss and Duke Johnson making the team and that's a similar situation so who knows?

 

 

I would say Crowder and Duke Johnson is a much different situation, Crowder is actually a very solid player and we got him for an insanely good deal, he would need to have an awful camp to get cut. Duke was unsigned for most of last year and was likely just an insurance policy if we didn't get James Cook in the draft, so I think he's an easy cut if they want to keep Moss as the RB3.

[Mat68]

14 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

 

 

 

McKenzie is kind of like this year's Levi Wallace... the Bills like him to a certain price point and McKenzie would prefer to stay than to leave. Barring unforeseen circumstances he'll be here for one more year.

 

 

Usually when the Bills recruit and sign a veteran free agent they treat that person with respect. It often seems the team wants to do well by the veterans. I expect Crowder will be a Bill for at least this year. I feel like they wouldn't have signed him just to cut him. That said I have a hard time seeing both Zack Moss and Duke Johnson making the team and that's a similar situation so who knows?

 

 

I understand the premise.  I think Mckenzie is facing a larger numbers game than Wallace.  Crowder is the slot. Shakir might be the best slot in the draft.  They drafted Stevenson last year.  Stevenson and Shakir will fight for return jobs with him.  Cook imo will get a large portion of the manufactured touches.  I like Mckenzie as a player.  I think the team likes him.  I question his role on the team moving forward.  I think he is insurance, but if a younger guy or 2 step up he could be left out. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Mat68

[Cash]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Crowder is one of their top-3 WRs and won't be going anywhere, unless he looks to have lost a step.  Until that's the case, he's not going anywhere.

 

What are you basing that on?  I'm not aware of any public statements by the Bills that would suggest that, but there's plenty I'm not aware of.  FWIW, Crowder is on a 1 year deal worth just under $2 million total, with a $750k signing bonus.  That doesn't exactly scream "roster lock" to me.

 

Side note:  You realize you're technically agreeing with me, right?  We both think Crowder will make the team unless he's lost a step.

[Doc]

46 minutes ago, Cash said:

What are you basing that on?  I'm not aware of any public statements by the Bills that would suggest that, but there's plenty I'm not aware of.  FWIW, Crowder is on a 1 year deal worth just under $2 million total, with a $750k signing bonus.  That doesn't exactly scream "roster lock" to me.

 

Side note:  You realize you're technically agreeing with me, right?  We both think Crowder will make the team unless he's lost a step.

 

Who is ahead of him?  McK who they've let test the market the past few years?  Touchdown Jesus who they've released several times?  Hodgins, who has a grand total of 4 offensive snaps in his first 2 years in the NFL?  Stevenson?  Gentry?

Edited May 4, 2022 by Doc

[Cash]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Who is ahead of him?  McK who they've let test the market the past few years?  Touchdown Jesus who they've released several times?  Hodgins, who has a grand total of 4 offensive snaps in his first 2 years in the NFL?  Stevenson?  Gentry?

Why do I need to prove that someone’s ahead of Crowder? You seemed certain that Crowder was top-3, and I asked where that came from. Apparently nowhere?

 

And FWIW, McKenzie is on a 2 year deal, which astute observers will note is 1 year longer than Crowder’s. That’s not much to be sure, but I don’t see why we should consider Crowder a top 3 lock before training camp even starts. 

[FilthyBeast]

14 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Your first point is interesting in that because of program status, there are college WR1s who fly under the radar every year. We get all turned around by the testing talents of 2nd and 3rd WRs from Alabama when there are these WR1s from lesser programs who produce and test reasonably well but just get undervalued. Gabriel Davis was a stud for UCF, and Khalil Shakir was a stud for BSU. There is great potential in them if they are committed to their crafts (and they escape injury). 

 

Totally disagree that McKenzie is the guy on the bubble, though. That's weird. 

 

Not saying it will happen but it just seems like his skill set is overly redundant especially with adding Shakir as a 5th round pick who is pretty much a lock to make the team based on that alone. And after being benched last year, and then with Daboll out the door seemed like a foregone conclusion that McKenzie was long gone from Buffalo.

 

In the end though McKenzie always finds a way to stick around on this roster like Wallace did on the defensive side until this year.

[John from Riverside]

I dont think it puts anyone on the bubble because Shakur is multiple.   He can line up anywhere on the field.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Cash said:

Why do I need to prove that someone’s ahead of Crowder? You seemed certain that Crowder was top-3, and I asked where that came from. Apparently nowhere?

 

And FWIW, McKenzie is on a 2 year deal, which astute observers will note is 1 year longer than Crowder’s. That’s not much to be sure, but I don’t see why we should consider Crowder a top 3 lock before training camp even starts. 

 

Crowder is far more accomplished than any WR on the team besides Diggs.  That's where it came from. 

 

As for McKenzie getting 2 years, Crowder likely asked for just a 1-year deal, to showcase himself.

[ngbills]

I hope the hype pans out. Im just not as high on shakir based on the tape or the numbers. He makes some good catches but doesn’t seem to get great separation and is playing low level competition. He just looks like a good college wr that gets lots of targets. I also don’t see the he is a guy you can hand the ball too, Deebo comparisons. Prove me wrong. 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

I hope the hype pans out. Im just not as high on shakir based on the tape or the numbers. He makes some good catches but doesn’t seem to get great separation and is playing low level competition. He just looks like a good college wr that gets lots of targets. I also don’t see the he is a guy you can hand the ball too, Deebo comparisons. Prove me wrong. 

Yeah some of his stuff looks a bit like Zay Jones film with 100 swing screens etc. I think what separates him is his work on contested catches. But he could be a very interesting fit. 

[H2o]

I didn't realize Shakir had a list of injuries this long. Maybe that's why he slid to day 3?

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/5/4/23053030/2022-nfl-draft-buffalo-bills-wr-khalil-shakir-injury-analysis

[Sierra Foothills]

11 minutes ago, H2o said:

I didn't realize Shakir had a list of injuries this long. Maybe that's why he slid to day 3?

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/5/4/23053030/2022-nfl-draft-buffalo-bills-wr-khalil-shakir-injury-analysis

 

From the same article:

 

"Shakir appeared in 43 games over his career, missing only three games due to a knee injury during his freshman season."

[H2o]

23 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

From the same article:

 

"Shakir appeared in 43 games over his career, missing only three games due to a knee injury during his freshman season."

Yeah, he's gritty and toughs things out it seems. I just hadn't heard about all of the injuries. The timing of them helped him in a couple of instances. 

[Sierra Foothills]

6 minutes ago, H2o said:

Yeah, he's gritty and toughs things out it seems. I just hadn't heard about all of the injuries. The timing of them helped him in a couple of instances. 

 

True.

 

There's worse times to get injured than in the last game of the season.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Crowder is one of their top-3 WRs and won't be going anywhere, unless he looks to have lost a step.  Until that's the case, he's not going anywhere.

I will add, “lost a step” would only be determined in season, unless he just can’t get in the playbook

[Doc]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I will add, “lost a step” would only be determined in season, unless he just can’t get in the playbook

 

Exactly. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

I have no idea who Brett Kollmann is, but I hope he’s a GENIUS! 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I have no idea who Brett Kollmann is, but I hope he’s a GENIUS! 

YouTube film guy like Cover1.