Ryan "Rick" Bates Watch Thread

[JMM]

So the complete silence on this, with days to go. Do we think that's a sign they match or a sign they don't?? What do you guys think??

[YoloinOhio]

37 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think he would be fine at guard, but yeah I highly doubt he is the pick as he probably isn’t available and I don’t think they go IOL. I think they will draft one of these tackles, like Tulsa’s Smith or Luke Goedeke, Abraham Lucas, Logan Bruss, Cole Strange, etc etc and make them a guard. Smith is starting to grow on me the more I watch. 

Tyler Smith is the best fit after Zion Johnson but not sure he’s there bottom of 2nd. 

9 minutes ago, JMM said:

So the complete silence on this, with days to go. Do we think that's a sign they match or a sign they don't?? What do you guys think??

I don’t think it means anything but that the bills are making them wait the whole 5

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, JMM said:

So the complete silence on this, with days to go. Do we think that's a sign they match or a sign they don't?? What do you guys think??

Almost everything the Bills do now is in complete silence 

Edited March 27, 2022 by NewEra

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Tyler Smith is the best fit after Zion Johnson but not sure he’s there bottom of 2nd. 

I don’t think it means anything but that the bills are making them wait the whole 5

I think we see them trade up in the second. Not necessarily for Smith, but the value seems to be mid first to mid second. They can tray to get two players in that range. 8 players can’t make this team. 

[Buffalo716]

58 minutes ago, billrooter said:

Nice article appreciate that I bookmarked it. I like Linderbaum as well, thing is didn't we just lock up Morse for two more years? I realize Linderbaum can move but the article says it wouldn't make much sense, but can you imagine if we had 3 Incognitions starting on the OL? I loved Richies tenacity on the field! Also do think they have to consider him if he falls, those type of lineman might only come along what every 5-10 years? I will be more interested to see what Gunnerbill and other draft guys think of him as a fit for Buffalo.

He's obviously a talented offensive lineman.. great hands hips and feet.. great agility and never gets beat to the spot

 

By his lack of size is actually concerning for the NFL level.. and he's not going to be a fit for all teams because of it.. going to be scheme dependent 

 

I wouldn't say he's a once every 10 year lineman like a Quinton Nelson..(though different positions) but if he gets into the right scheme he can be a pro bowler 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Coach Tuesday]

At the end of the day they have to trust their evals.  They’ve had more time with Bates than anyone.  They know what his strengths and weaknesses are and they should be able to determine what he’s worth within a reasonable range.  They can’t listen to me and get spooked by their misevaluations of Ford, Teller, Spain, Creed, etc. - they need to maintain discipline and stick to their process.  It’s frustrating as fans because they keep screwing up the position but it won’t help to compound the problem by wildly overpaying based upon an outsider’s willingness to pay a certain price.  

Edited March 27, 2022 by Coach Tuesday

[Aussie Joe]

34 minutes ago, JMM said:

So the complete silence on this, with days to go. Do we think that's a sign they match or a sign they don't?? What do you guys think??

What’s the point of speculation from us outsiders? We will know soon enough… 

 

 

[JDubya76]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t think it means anything but that the bills are making them wait the whole 5

I would make anyone that signed one of my RFAs wait until the deadline for an answer. It give us a chance to mess with the other teams backup plans. 

[MrEpsYtown]

33 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He's obviously a talented offensive lineman.. great hands hips and feet.. great agility and never gets beat to the spot

 

By his lack of size is actually concerning for the NFL level.. and he's not going to be a fit for all teams because of it.. going to be scheme dependent 

 

I wouldn't say he's a once every 10 year lineman like a Quinton Nelson..(though different positions) but if he gets into the right scheme he can be a pro bowler 

 

 

Yeah, he was little banged up at the end of the year, but Marquand McCall, all of 6-3 and 342 lbs of him physically  beat Linderbaum up a little bit. So that is the concern, but he plays with such great leverage that he will hold his own against bigger guys. He will also be playing with better linemen, so won’t be on an island as much. 

[damj]

I've been out of the loop, what was the Bears offer?

 

[John from Riverside]

I think Beane is absolutely giving the finger tot he bears by waiting till the deadline to say we wont match.

[Turbo44]

25 minutes ago, damj said:

I've been out of the loop, what was the Bears offer?

 

No offer reported (I don’t think) - Bills have to Wednesday to match

[Motor26]

6 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I think Williams is decent in pass pro. 

 

Are you saying they shouldn't start Spencer Brown at RT this year? Why are you only saying this now, I haven't seen a single person say that the entire offseason. Where ya been?

I’m saying if the plan is to keep the status quo on the right side of the line, they’re going to struggle. Williams is going to be 30 this season and has already looked to be in the decline physically. Brown should get the chance to start but they’re going to need to have competition or at least a competent backup if he struggles again. He got worked in pass pro so many times last year, he’s a good run blocker, but leaves a lot to be desired from a pass pro standpoint.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Motor26

[Rockinon]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep…. My guess is they take a guy early who can play both guard and tackle to push Brown for a starting spot.

I'm more inclined to think they would be looking for someone that can play G/C.

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t think it means anything but that the bills are making them wait the whole 5

We might be lining up to sign another vet before giving up on Bates. We might as well and take our time to do so. One name I have seen sign anywhere is Chris Reed. He's been a solid veteran backup that's been on a few different teams the last 7 seasons. At the very least he's a veteran backup G.

[3rdand12]

18 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

I'm more inclined to think they would be looking for someone that can play G/C.

Morse really needs an apprentice this season perhaps. Surprised he made it this far

18 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

I'm more inclined to think they would be looking for someone that can play G/C.

They likely need to get two from the draft. C/OG  and or OG/T

[MrEpsYtown]

For context, Bradley Bozeman signed a 1 year deal worth 2.8 million. I am not a huge fan, but he has a proven track record of play at both LG and C. Not the athlete Bates is, but Bozeman plays very well in power/gap schemes. 

[Einstein's Dog]

14 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

We might be lining up to sign another vet before giving up on Bates. We might as well and take our time to do so. One name I have seen sign anywhere is Chris Reed. He's been a solid veteran backup that's been on a few different teams the last 7 seasons. At the very least he's a veteran backup G.

Along those lines it might be that the FO is weighing the amount for Bates vs putting an additional say $1-2M for starter level Trai Turner. 

 

The FO could be in frantic negotiations with Trai.  Get that deal done before turning down Bates.

[Turbo44]

18 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Along those lines it might be that the FO is weighing the amount for Bates vs putting an additional say $1-2M for starter level Trai Turner. 

 

The FO could be in frantic negotiations with Trai.  Get that deal done before turning down Bates.

Maybe they are and just are making Chicago wait. Then they take the Bates money and put it towards a veteran??

 

or Beane is irritated that Chicago signed him, plans to match, and making Chicago wait puts Chicago in the disadvantage of not pursuing another guard

[Einstein's Dog]

9 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Maybe they are and just are making Chicago wait. Then they take the Bates money and put it towards a veteran??

 

or Beane is irritated that Chicago signed him, plans to match, and making Chicago wait puts Chicago in the disadvantage of not pursuing another guard

Most scenarios seem to conclude that we will be waiting until the last day to decide.

 

One unfortunate problem is that there don't seem to be many good veteran choices that would be an upgrade.  The poster I responded to was mentioning Chris Reed, who is not an upgrade.  So turning down Bates even at an uncomfortable price would leave us with a hole to fill.  

 

IMO, getting Turner would be an upgrade.  And the front office would want to know if they could get him at a price they have in mind before deciding on Bates.  That would be the time constraint.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Morse really needs an apprentice this season perhaps. Surprised he made it this far

 

TBH, I thought Bates was gonna be his apprentice but, maybe in what they've seen of Bates at C the Bills really don't see him that way

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Maybe they are and just are making Chicago wait. Then they take the Bates money and put it towards a veteran??

 

or Beane is irritated that Chicago signed him, plans to match, and making Chicago wait puts Chicago in the disadvantage of not pursuing another guard

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt Beane allows emotions to influence his GM decisions

 

If a decision to re-negotiate a contract or release a different player is involved in the match, I can easily see it taking 5 days to pull all the pieces together

If a decision to pursue another player if the match hits a certain target is involved, I can see it taking 5 days to pursue another player (and if they don't succeed, does the decision change?)

 

Anyway, I kind of doubt Beane is sitting in an office chair with a smirk on his face twiddling his thumbs. 

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Morse really needs an apprentice this season perhaps. Surprised he made it this far

They likely need to get two from the draft. C/OG  and or OG/T

I feel like I've read (maybe in 202?) that Ike Boettger gets reps at center in practice. Does anyone know if this is true? 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I feel like I've read (maybe in 202?) that Ike Boettger gets reps at center in practice. Does anyone know if this is true? 

Yes this is true. I think he played a bit there in the preseason as well

[Buddo]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yes this is true. I think he played a bit there in the preseason as well

 

He's not likely to be fit though, is he.

 

He's also a FA, if memory serves me correctly.

 

I can't see anyone signing him until he can prove his fitness, and that may well not be, before the season has got well underway.

[MrEpsYtown]

55 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Most scenarios seem to conclude that we will be waiting until the last day to decide.

 

One unfortunate problem is that there don't seem to be many good veteran choices that would be an upgrade.  The poster I responded to was mentioning Chris Reed, who is not an upgrade.  So turning down Bates even at an uncomfortable price would leave us with a hole to fill.  

 

IMO, getting Turner would be an upgrade.  And the front office would want to know if they could get him at a price they have in mind before deciding on Bates.  That would be the time constraint.

Yeah I think Turner, Hernandez. Maybe Devernay-Tardif. Ethan Pocic is somewhat interesting, not a RAS guy but has played a lot of center and guard. Maybe Billy Price has upside. 
 

My outside the box idea if Bates goes?Sign Riley Reiff to play some RG. Older guy, vet, but a former left tackle who would be a nice presence next to Brown. He is no longer a tackle imo, but he could be an effective guard. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, Buddo said:

 

He's not likely to be fit though, is he.

 

He's also a FA, if memory serves me correctly.

 

I can't see anyone signing him until he can prove his fitness, and that may well not be, before the season has got well underway.

Yeah agreed. And it took Ike a long time to get to 100% when he popped the other achilles at Iowa. I think he misses this season completely. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by MrEpsYtown

[Ethan in Cleveland]

As long as this off-season they are correcting past mistakes, why not go get Jason Peters and let him finish his HOF career back in Buffalo with a SB win!!!!

[FLFan]

38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

TBH, I thought Bates was gonna be his apprentice but, maybe in what they've seen of Bates at C the Bills really don't see him that way

 

 

During last off-season the Bills indicated that Bates would be the primary backup at C rather than the jack of all trades role they had him in before.  That’s why Bates was last off the bench in the guard rotation after Ford, Williams, Feliciano, and Boettger.  He did perform well in very limited action.  It is pretty clear to me, however, that Beane and the coaching staff do not see him as the long term answer at C, hence the extension of Morse, and does not see him as a starter at LG, hence the  signing of Saffold.  It would also appear they certainly do not have him penciled in RG as a starter, or they would have tendered him higher.  So the Bills value him as a good role player and hence the $2.5 m offer.  

 

I guess we will see who the better talent evaluators and team builders are, Beane and company or message board fan “experts”.   

[MrEpsYtown]

5 minutes ago, FLFan said:

During last off-season the Bills indicated that Bates would be the primary backup at C rather than the jack of all trades role they had him in before.  That’s why Bates was last off the bench in the guard rotation after Ford, Williams, Feliciano, and Boettger.  He did perform well in very limited action.  It is pretty clear to me, however, that Beane and the coaching staff do not see him as the long term answer at C, hence the extension of Morse, and does not see him as a starter at LG, hence the  signing of Saffold.  It would also appear they certainly do not have him penciled in RG as a starter, or they would have tendered him higher.  So the Bills value him as a good role player and hence the $2.5 m offer.  

 

I guess we will see who the better talent evaluators and team builders are, Beane and company or message board fan “experts”.   

I like what the Bears are doing, but they don’t really have a left tackle. They gave a 2/8 million dollar deal to Lucas Patrick of the Packers. Intersting player but he has played a bunch for the Packers at guard. 34 starts, played in 74 games in 5 years. Bates has played in 41 games and started 4 in three years. I am not sure how you justify giving Bates more. The Bears probably offered him something  like a 4 year deal worth 12 million with a 7 million dollar hit this year. 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I like what the Bears are doing, but they don’t really have a left tackle. They gave a 2/8 million dollar deal to Lucas Patrick of the Packers. Intersting player but he has played a bunch for the Packers at guard. 34 starts, played in 74 games in 5 years. Bates has played in 41 games and started 4 in three years. I am not sure how you justify giving Bates more. The Bears probably offered him something  like a 4 year deal worth 12 million with a 7 million dollar hit this year. 

 

 

I do hope they retain Bates.  

 

Speaking of Bears LT.......I would like to see the Bills end up with Jason Peters as a reserve tackle cheap if he chooses not to wait until August or September to sign again.  Old but better than Ty Nsekhe was and Beane paid Tired Ty $7M aav.   Peters was on a $2M 1 year deal with Chicago and then play him a few series every game to keep the tackles fresh and avoid the kind of catastrophic situations we saw with Brown and Doyle at LT(Doyle was a perfect 1 snap/1 sack at LT).

 

And rotating OL more will be part of the future of football.   Older fans will deny it.....but with 17-18 game seasons and spread offenses......it's coming.   I can remember when people insisted Willis McGahee and Travis Henry couldn't share the same backfield and thought I was crazy when I insisted 2 back systems were coming.  Two years later it was already becoming the norm.  The Bills might as well stay ahead of it.   

[letsgoteam]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I do hope they retain Bates.  

 

Speaking of Bears LT.......I would like to see the Bills end up with Jason Peters as a reserve tackle cheap if he chooses not to wait until August or September to sign again.  Old but better than Ty Nsekhe was and Beane paid Tired Ty $7M aav.   Peters was on a $2M 1 year deal with Chicago and then play him a few series every game to keep the tackles fresh and avoid the kind of catastrophic situations we saw with Brown and Doyle at LT(Doyle was a perfect 1 snap/1 sack at LT).

 

And rotating OL more will be part of the future of football.   Older fans will deny it.....but with 17-18 game seasons and spread offenses......it's coming.   I can remember when people insisted Willis McGahee and Travis Henry couldn't share the same backfield and thought I was crazy when I insisted 2 back systems were coming.  Two years later it was already becoming the norm.  The Bills might as well stay ahead of it.   

I have been a fan of bringing back J.P as a reserve.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I do hope they retain Bates.  

 

Speaking of Bears LT.......I would like to see the Bills end up with Jason Peters as a reserve tackle cheap if he chooses not to wait until August or September to sign again.  Old but better than Ty Nsekhe was and Beane paid Tired Ty $7M aav.   Peters was on a $2M 1 year deal with Chicago and then play him a few series every game to keep the tackles fresh and avoid the kind of catastrophic situations we saw with Brown and Doyle at LT(Doyle was a perfect 1 snap/1 sack at LT).

 

And rotating OL more will be part of the future of football.   Older fans will deny it.....but with 17-18 game seasons and spread offenses......it's coming.   I can remember when people insisted Willis McGahee and Travis Henry couldn't share the same backfield and thought I was crazy when I insisted 2 back systems were coming.  Two years later it was already becoming the norm.  The Bills might as well stay ahead of it.   

I think it is good to have young guys in the lineup with reliable old guys around. Peters, Riley Reiff, maybe a Bryan Bulaga, Kromer guy Kyle Long. Good dudes to have around as reserves and mentor young lienemen. 

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I like what the Bears are doing, but they don’t really have a left tackle. They gave a 2/8 million dollar deal to Lucas Patrick of the Packers. Intersting player but he has played a bunch for the Packers at guard. 34 starts, played in 74 games in 5 years. Bates has played in 41 games and started 4 in three years. I am not sure how you justify giving Bates more. The Bears probably offered him something  like a 4 year deal worth 12 million with a 7 million dollar hit this year. 

 

 

 

They had a lot of competition for Bates, and while the Bears had to worry about whether the Bills would match, Bates probably gives zero poos about that. For him, he just wants to make this contract as financially remunerative and smart as possible for he and his family. That's how he would choose the contract. So I myself doubt whether the Bears would have been the highest bidder with that contract.

 

IMO maybe $5 - 6.5M AAV., with the guarantees structured right.

[H2o]

Where do we stand on the countdown? When is the signing official for the Bears if we don't match the offer? 

[No_Matter_What]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

Where do we stand on the countdown? When is the signing official for the Bears if we don't match the offer? 

Someone said earlier in this thread that deadline is Wednesday 4pm.

[JGMcD2]

McDermott said today we’re working through this…

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by JGMcD2

[Pags24]

29 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Someone said earlier in this thread that deadline is Wednesday 4pm.

We have until Tuesday, 3PM Central Time

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

They had a lot of competition for Bates, and while the Bears had to worry about whether the Bills would match, Bates probably gives zero poos about that. For him, he just wants to make this contract as financially remunerative and smart as possible for he and his family. That's how he would choose the contract. So I myself doubt whether the Bears would have been the highest bidder with that contract.

 

IMO maybe $5 - 6.5M AAV., with the guarantees structured right.

 

 

$6.5M aav would be a jaw dropping RFA bid.........likely a record for any position.    

[MrEpsYtown]

31 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

They had a lot of competition for Bates, and while the Bears had to worry about whether the Bills would match, Bates probably gives zero poos about that. For him, he just wants to make this contract as financially remunerative and smart as possible for he and his family. That's how he would choose the contract. So I myself doubt whether the Bears would have been the highest bidder with that contract.

 

IMO maybe $5 - 6.5M AAV., with the guarantees structured right.

 

Yeah that is definitely a very high number when you factor the market for guards and the fact that Bates has only started in a few games. There was competition, but not alot. I think The Bears just fell in love with him and he has connections in the team. But he is very young with upside and it isn't a big risk for the Bears when they have a QB on the rookie contract. But 6.5 puts him in the top 20 of guard salaries. 4.5 to 5 is fair, but it is going to be an overpay. 

[No_Matter_What]

18 minutes ago, Pags24 said:

We have until Tuesday, 3PM Central Time

Yep it seems so, I just remembered what was written here. 

 

Thats good news btw. Finally this watch will be over