Who is to blame for our lack of Lombardis?

[NewEra]

Al of the above 

[Your Brown Eye]

I thought every loss is solely attributed to the refs?

[Dr. K]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Because how can I blame McDermott if we can at least come to some approximate gauge to what is roster talent rankings? We need to be able to determine a good metric before we can start placing blame on coaching. What we do know is we have a top 3 QB statistically despite having below average line play. Which is really incredible to think about. 

Really, your agenda is screaming out from under your "dispassionate" analysis. There are so many assumptions buried under the way you've put this that it's laughable even to engage with you. This is a waste of our time. 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Did you fail to become a millionaire because your parents were incompetent or because you were too lazy to apply your true potential.  It has to be one or the other. 

Why can’t you guys stick to football discussions instead of making ad hominem gestures? It’s a football debate. 

[billsfan1959]

5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Are we certain this is the absolute case though? We haven’t even decided what is the best ways to gauge player talent and overall roster grades. We have a punter that was ranked last, a QB ranked in the top 3 in most metrics (despite poor linemen talent), and other players I’m not sure were they finished in statistical quartiles compared to other league players. We need to find a way to weight all of that when determining how good our talent is before we can start placing blame on coaching. 

 

That certainly hasn't stopped you from blaming coaching and the front office.

 

But, here is an idea. Why don't you spend your time in a more constructive manner by developing the statistical models, formulas, and techniques by which you can determine what raw data should be collected, and how to most effectively analyze that data, to create a standard, accurate way of measuring talent.

 

Until then, follow your own advice and stop looking to place blame....

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Dr. K said:

Really, your agenda is screaming out from under your "dispassionate" analysis. There are so many assumptions buried under the way you've put this that it's laughable even to engage with you. This is a waste of our time. 

So let’s discuss the issues here, what assumptions? How do you go about determining why we haven’t won Super Bowls? 

[fasteddie]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

Whew! For a minute I thought this was going to be another Bean and McDermott suck thread....

Or a "Ralph is cheap" thread.

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

That certainly hasn't stopped you from blaming coaching and the front office.

 

But, here is an idea. Why don't you spend your time in a more constructive manner by developing the statistical models, formulas, and techniques by which you can determine what raw data should be collected, and how to most effectively analyze that data, to create a standard, accurate way of measuring talent.

 

Until then, follow your own advice and stop looking to place blame....

Maybe I will do just that. I’m surprised no kind of overall roster talent gauge exist. If it already does, it would be nice to see the links. 

[Dr. K]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

So let’s discuss the issues here, what assumptions? How do you go about determining why we haven’t won Super Bowls? 

You really are ridiculously dishonest. Just admit you think McDermott and Beane are the problem. I've got nothing more to say to you. 

[Draconator]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

So some say winning in the NFL is hard. Some say it takes luck. I say it all comes down to roster talent and coaching to get the most out of that roster talent (player execution). Where do you stand at the moment, who is to blame for not winning any Lombardis? 
 

A lot of posters here feel we have a top 5 roster. Which ultimately begs the question, how exactly should we qualify what is “top 5” , which metrics are we going to use. Should we use positional statistical quartiles for every team position and weight them based on positional importance? I’m serious, I would like to sit down and debate how exactly we should gauge this. 
 

Some posters here feel we aren’t winning Lombardis because of coaching strategy and maximizing player execution. Which coaching statistics should we use to gauge coaching performance? I want to try and be as less subjective as possible when trying to determine where fault is placed. 
 

I don’t believe in luck. I believe in talent and talent execution. Luck is a crutch people use to excuse away failure. 
 

How is it that some NFL teams can win Lombardis on less than top 5 roster talent, but somehow we supposedly can’t? 
 

Please discuss as honestly as you can. 

 

 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

Maybe I will do just that. I’m surprised no kind of overall roster talent gauge exist. If it already does, it would be nice to see the links. 

 

The reason it doesn't exist is because you cannot statistically quantify all of the variables that truly measure "talent" and how that talent might manifest on the field in any given situation.

 

You cannot reduce human behavior to strictly measurable numbers in order to predict outcome.

[Milanos Milano]

13 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

You really are ridiculously dishonest. Just admit you think McDermott and Beane are the problem. I've got nothing more to say to you. 

Who’s the problem if it isn’t McDermott or Beanes? The players? Who is responsible for acquiring these players? Who is responsible for positioning those players in strategic positions to win games? How am I being dishonest, I’m just trying to figure out who gets the most blame as objectively as possible and only one other poster in here has tried to do so. I’m thankful that poster has contributed great substance. 
 

Edited March 12, 2022 by IronMaidenBills

[SinceThe70s]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

 

 

 

My father had a great line for people like this: Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're an idiot instead of opening it up and removing all doubt.

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Saint Doug said:

Or, C, Ralph. 

The Curse of Ralph is still very strong.  

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

My father had a great line for people like this: Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're an idiot instead of opening it up and removing all doubt.

So why don’t you add something constructive to the debate. What would you do to win super bowls. Why aren’t we winning them? 

[Dr. K]

6 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Who’s the problem if it isn’t McDermott or Beanes? The players? Who is responsible for acquiring this players? Who is responsible for positioning those players in strategic positions to win games? How am I being dishonest, I’m just trying to figure out who gets the most blame as objectively as possible and only one other poster in here has tried to do so. I’m thankful that poster has contributed great substance. 
 

Why present a "poll" as if you think it is an open question when you already know the answer? That's fundamentally dishonest, and it was evident from your very first post. I did not even know what you opinion was before I clicked on this thread but it was instantly obvious as soon as I read that. Everything after that was blowing smoke.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Dr. K

[nedboy7]

5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Who’s the problem if it isn’t McDermott or Beanes? The players? Who is responsible for acquiring these players? Who is responsible for positioning those players in strategic positions to win games? How am I being dishonest, I’m just trying to figure out who gets the most blame as objectively as possible and only one other poster in here has tried to do so. I’m thankful that poster has contributed great substance. 
 

 

"I'm just trying to figure out who gets the most blame" 

 

My god.  Have some self respect. 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Dr. K said:

Why present a "poll" as if you think it is an open question when you already know the answer? That's fundamentally dishonest, and it was evident from your very first post. I did not even know what you opinion was before I clicked on this thread but it was instantly obvious as soon as I read that. 

So what would you do to win Super Bowls? Add better talent? 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

The MySpace chain letters we all ignored 

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

So why don’t you add something constructive to the debate. What would you do to win super bowls. Why aren’t we winning them? 

 

Because you think we should have a Blue Helmet. It's all your fault.

[nedboy7]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

So why don’t you add something constructive to the debate. What would you do to win super bowls. Why aren’t we winning them? 

 

It's because Josh Allen sucks.  There I said it.  I been afraid to all year.  I mean he is decent.  But if he was better we would win.  He clearly isn't good enough to win the Lombardi every year.  And if you are not winning the Lombardi every year you might as well be the Jags.  Which we are.  We are the ***** Buffalo Jaguars.  *****.  Happy? 

[What a Tuel]

The Chiefs. They had more talent and better coaching the last 2 years (and home field advantage). That doesn't mean McDermott and team can't overcome that in the future. Its not a static thing, it is ever changing.

 

The answer you are looking for is McDermott, and Beane so you can rail on them but in reality they are our best shot to win a lombardi.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by What a Tuel

[Rc2catch]

Some things never change around here. Same people from months ago still beating their same agendas on basically every thread. 

[nedboy7]

2 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

The Chiefs. They had more talent and better coaching the last 2 years. That doesn't mean McDermott and team can't overcome that in the future. Its not a static thing, it is ever changing.

 

The answer you are looking for is McDermott, and Beane so you can rail on them but in reality they are our best shot to win a lombardi.

 

 

 

You clearly missed his post that states you cant blame McD cause there is no real metric to see how talented the team is.  You stepped right into his trap.  Sucker. 

[Royale with Cheese]

22 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

The reason it doesn't exist is because you cannot statistically quantify all of the variables that truly measure "talent" and how that talent might manifest on the field in any given situation.

 

You cannot reduce human behavior to strictly measurable numbers in order to predict outcome.

Im pretty sure IronMaiden doesn’t understand this.  

[coloradobillsfan]

[Milanos Milano]

11 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

The Chiefs. They had more talent and better coaching the last 2 years (and home field advantage). That doesn't mean McDermott and team can't overcome that in the future. Its not a static thing, it is ever changing.

 

The answer you are looking for is McDermott, and Beane so you can rail on them but in reality they are our best shot to win a lombardi.

 

 

I never said they couldn’t improve or that they needed firing. All I want to know is who is most at fault for why we haven’t won a Lombardi. If what you said is correct and we lost to a superior team (talent and coaching wise) then we need to continue adding better talent. Hopefully Beane and McDermott keep improving because it’s clearly we are lacking pieces still. 

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Im pretty sure IronMaiden doesn’t understand this.  

Lol then we just shrug our shoulders? We don’t even try to qualify and quantify it? 

[Motor26]

An Act of God this past season. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

SuperBowl XXV is 100% on coaching. Levy was out-coached by Parcells and Belichick.

The following three SuperBowls the Bills were dominated by bigger faster defenses and o-lines. So I guess you lay the blame on Polian there. The roster was not good enough especially on the lines.

 

The past two years we lost because the defense is a fraud.  McDermotts defense has melted in every big game except Bills Ravens. He has been outcoached by Reid multiple times. Edmunds the leader of the fraud defense is a massive letdown. If someone can point out a single impact play he has made in the playoffs I would like to know. 
 

The Bills are competitive for one reason alone,Josh Allen. And the reason we did not win the SuperBowl this past season is Sean McDermott.

[BarleyNY]

Over the years it’s really been a group effort. 

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Please discuss as honestly as you can. 

 

I unequivocally blame you. Karma is certainly punishing you for being so awful and the rest of us must suffer. 

 

..for the love of all that's good.. bring back the buffalobills.com message board

Edited March 12, 2022 by Malazan

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

Believe whatever nonsense you want.  I guess the 2021 Jags were better than the 2021 Bills and the NYG were the best team in football in 2007!

2021 Jags played better than the 2021 Bills when they matched up.

 

Not sure if I’d call that luck or just a bad day.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

 We don’t even try to qualify and quantify it? 

You keep wanting an objective answer for a subjective topic.  1959 laid it out perfectly and easy to understand but you don’t want to because you have a clear agenda.

 

Subjective doesn’t mean it can’t be debated but you’re not willing to listen to any solid reasoning unless it gives a black and white answer on who is to blame.  
 

How many people are going to argue against you before you understand your logic is flawed?

 

 

[MiltonWaddams]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

I think if the Bills had a punter that was in the top 5 in the league that would get them a Lombardi trophy. Everybody knows you can’t win a super bowl without a top flight punter!!!

Well, Brian Moorman was our MVP for a few years. Should’ve won a Lombardi

Edited March 12, 2022 by MiltonWaddams

[Milanos Milano]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

You keep wanting an objective answer for a subjective topic.  1959 laid it out perfectly and easy to understand but you don’t want to because you have a clear agenda.

 

Subjective doesn’t mean it can’t be debated but you’re not willing to listen to any solid reasoning unless it gives a black and white answer on who is to blame.  
 

How many people are going to argue against you before you understand your logic is flawed?

 

 

We can make this an objective topic with verifiable measurements and player attributes. Somewhere someplace someone must be making some kind of machine learning platform that incorporates all these performance metrics for best optimization for varying opponents. I can’t believe people aren’t feeding thousands of pre snap images into a program to diagnose best percentage probabilities for successful plays. We have strategic AI platforms for chess, and I’m sure there will be one for football someday where the program will take pre snap reads and spit out best options for favorable plays to run based on current roster talent attributes. 

1 minute ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Well, Brian Mootman was our MVP for a few years. Should’ve won a Lombardi

Well sadly we had trash QB play at the time. 

It would honestly be cool if we employed a deep blue type program to be our coordinator. I’d be curious to see how much better a machine could be at calling plays based on probable outcomes based on opponent talent characteristics and scheme. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by IronMaidenBills

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We can make this an objective topic with verifiable measurements and player attributes. Somewhere someplace someone must be making some kind of machine learning platform that incorporates all these performance metrics for best optimization for varying opponents. I can’t believe people aren’t feeding thousands of pre snap images into a program to diagnose best percentage probabilities for successful plays. We have strategic AI platforms for chess, and I’m sure there will be one for football someday where the program will take pre snap reads and spit out best options for favorable plays to run based on current roster talent attributes. 

Nope….and WTF.

Stick to chess.

[Milanos Milano]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Nope….and WTF.

Stick to chess.

Why not? Image if a program existed that could tell you opponents tendencies percentages under certain formations historically and in game techniques based on player attributes? Directly relay it to Josh so he could direct accordingly. It would be a huge benefit. You could run plays were formations have statistical probabilities to succeed in best spots around the field. 

[Milanos Milano]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Oh so it wasn’t the superior opponent who was the reason he won it….it was the inferior opponent making mistakes.

 

I see how your mind thinks now.  

Statistical analysis isn’t subjective?????

Okay, this is getting beyond dumb now.

Im out.

There is a thing called objective statistical analysis. 

[frostbitmic]

1. I blame Ralph and the Pegula's and every person that has ever been paid by the Buffalo Bills. Players, coaches, trainers, beer vendors, season ticket sellers, urinal cake replacers etc ...

 

2. Playing outdoors ... We lost home field advantage on a windy night losing to a QB that passed the ball 3 times all game... We need a dome to exert our superiority regardless of the weather outside.

 

3. The big guy upstairs isn't a Bills fan.

[Don Otreply]

This nonsense is still going on??? 
 

JFC, if some of you think the Bills are a terribly run team, you might wanna look at the NJ Jets, according to you people every team in the league expect the SB winner sucks, this constant whining is becoming unbearable, y’all’s grown men and women….,