Beerball Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: But isn’t coaching responsible in some ways to player execution? Or is that strictly under talent performance? If a player can consistently perform, is that a coaching issue or a talent issue? True or false, can a coach win with inferior talent if they are a superior coach with better strategy? How much can a coach, coach up? Preparedness? Situational awareness? Statistical advantages under certain situations that are diagnosed in real time? IMO, good coaching can win you a game or two/year. Bad coaching and bad player execution can lose them all. Players deserve some of the blame. Whether it wide right and the partying ways of the 90's Bills or Homerun throwback (equal coaching and player IMO) or 13 seconds (communication which is on coaching, scheme which is coaching, poor tackling which is player) the FO put together tremendous teams. Coaches and players didn't do their part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Just now, Beerball said: IMO, good coaching can win you a game or two/year. Bad coaching and bad player execution can lose them all. Players deserve some of the blame. Whether it wide right and the partying ways of the 90's Bills or Homerun throwback (equal coaching and player IMO) or 13 seconds (communication which is on coaching, scheme which is coaching, poor tackling which is player) the FO put together tremendous teams. Coaches and players didn't do their part. Are we certain this is the absolute case though? We haven’t even decided what is the best ways to gauge player talent and overall roster grades. We have a punter that was ranked last, a QB ranked in the top 3 in most metrics (despite poor linemen talent), and other players I’m not sure were they finished in statistical quartiles compared to other league players. We need to find a way to weight all of that when determining how good our talent is before we can start placing blame on coaching. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: But isn’t coaching responsible in some ways to player execution? Or is that strictly under talent performance? If a player can consistently perform, is that a coaching issue or a talent issue? True or false, can a coach win with inferior talent if they are a superior coach with better strategy? How much can a coach, coach up? Preparedness? Situational awareness? Statistical advantages under certain situations that are diagnosed in real time? True of False..... McBeane have built a solid team from ground up with their talent acquisition, coaching and overall team concepts to make an irrelevant mediocre franchise a perennial SB contender that we can enjoy and be proud of year after year, instead of talking about our draft position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Just now, nedboy7 said: True of False..... McBeane have built a solid team from ground up with their talent acquisition, coaching and overall team concepts to make an irrelevant mediocre franchise a perennial SB contender that we can enjoy and be proud of year after year, instead of talking about our draft position. False. Because they have failed to WIN Super Bowls. That’s why we play the game. Whether we are the Jets or super bowl losers is the same. Both pack up and go home. While it’s a great moral victory, it still isn’t enough and for that we need to figure out why? Why wasn’t it enough. Not good enough coaching or not good enough talent. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) I blame the FO for not signing the Sparty legend Edited March 12, 2022 by YoloinOhio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said: NFL is hard. Is that what you are trying to tell me? So is proper use of an apostrophe. Edited March 12, 2022 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Statistical analysis isn’t subjective. Data is data. On paper the pats had more talent. I can’t say for certain because we haven’t discussed what is the best way in determining roster talent success. So if the pats had the better roster at that time, then that means the giants had better coaching to win the super bowl. Seen Moe and Larry lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Round Bust Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 overall - Ralph Wilson and his bad management and style - old school, stubborn, egotistical; fired a hall-of-fame GM in his prime and overwhelming majority of his hires were terrible, it took 50 years for him to be inducted in the hall, mostly because it made the NFL look bad not to, not because he deserved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Well we know one thing, we can’t blame the Pegula’s for the lack of spending money. They have been adamant about spending up to the max cap. They have the final stamp of approval though on Beane and McDermott, so that discussion is still viable. But you can’t fault them for a lack of trying like Ralph seemed to lack sometimes. 2 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: So is proper use of an apostrophe. So we resort to ad hominem now instead of content discussions? You are better than that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: False. Because they have failed to WIN Super Bowls. That’s why we play the game. Whether we are the Jets or super bowl losers is the same. Both pack up and go home. While it’s a great moral victory, it still isn’t enough and for that we need to figure out why? Why wasn’t it enough. Not good enough coaching or not good enough talent. You're doing it again. Refusing to believe the obvious. Enjoy the personal little Bizarro world you're going to be living in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said: Bills under Pegula’s. Sorry, should have been more clear. I want to try and make this as less subjective as possible. Where would you rank our overall talent acquisition across the league? 6th, 3rd, 1st? And what gauge should we use? Statistical quartiles analysis weighted based on positional importance? Where do we rank McDermott in coaching performance league wide? 10th, 7th, 3rd, etc? What statistical performance gauge are we using to judge coaches? I seriously want to know where we should be placing blame mathematically. Any answer to this question is going to be subjective--especially when you frame it the way you did, which slants the answer toward blaming the coaching. This is an incredibly passive aggressive way to start another anti-McDermott thread. Why not just come out and say you blame McDermott for the Bills not winning a Super Bowl and call for his firing? Edited March 12, 2022 by Dr. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Seen Moe and Larry lately? So statistically we didn’t have the worst punter in the league talent wise? So statistically we didn’t have the top 3 QB in the league talent wise? What about other positions on the team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: False. Because they have failed to WIN Super Bowls. That’s why we play the game. Whether we are the Jets or super bowl losers is the same. Both pack up and go home. While it’s a great moral victory, it still isn’t enough and for that we need to figure out why? Why wasn’t it enough. Not good enough coaching or not good enough talent. Did you fail to become a millionaire because your parents were incompetent or because you were too lazy to apply your true potential. It has to be one or the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 43 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: So applied across all team positions, where would the bills rank in overall roster talent in the league? Thanks for your honest attempt here at being critical. I appreciate that. Last season they were top 5 across the board from what I’ve seen. The team isn’t perfect, but I think that legit. Also ELO is another good metric. Here are some links: https://www.nfeloapp.com/nfl-power-ratings https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nfl-predictions/ Explanation of EPA: https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/2193857/amp I think the most important part of using any statistic or metric is to understand its limitations. People rip on PFF a lot, but their grades are useful in context. They are grading players on how well they execute their assigned duties within their scheme. That’s much different than asking how much a player is capable of. Players like Kirk Cousins (6th) and Allen (3rd) were not really that close as QBs last season. Cousins operated well in a limited role within a scheme that asked him to be efficient - and he was. But compared to what the Bills asked of Allen and his outsized role in his offense, there’s no real comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said: Please discuss as honestly as you can. After further consideration, the blue helmet is really, really disturbing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Dr. K said: Any answer to this question is going to be subjective--especially when you frame it the way you did, which slants the answer toward blaming the coaching. Why not just come out and say you blame McDermott for the Bills not winning a Super Bowl yet? Because how can I blame McDermott if we can at least come to some approximate gauge to what is roster talent rankings? We need to be able to determine a good metric before we can start placing blame on coaching. What we do know is we have a top 3 QB statistically despite having below average line play. Which is really incredible to think about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: So statistically we didn’t have the worst punter in the league talent wise? So statistically we didn’t have the top 3 QB in the league talent wise? What about other positions on the team? Sorry, man, your whole argument here has all the logical validity of a guy saying, "Well, this is a fruit. Therefore we've proved that if it isn't an apple, it must be an orange." And then parading around and basking in the imaginary huzzahs he figures that deserves. At this point, it's very clear that you simply don't get it but are willing to argue forever. Honestly worse than talking to my six year old. When she was three years younger. I'm out. Edited March 12, 2022 by Thurman#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I’m gonna go have another cup of coffee and check back in later to see if y’all get this resolved 👍 Go Bills!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said: Well we know one thing, we can’t blame the Pegula’s for the lack of spending money. They have been adamant about spending up to the max cap. They have the final stamp of approval though on Beane and McDermott, so that discussion is still viable. But you can’t fault them for a lack of trying like Ralph seemed to lack sometimes. So we resort to ad hominem now instead of content discussions? You are better than that. I just find it ironic when a poster (especially an OP) goes on a tirade about the lack of success under Beane and McDermott. As long as you're not signing the paycheques for Beane, McDermott, and others, the Pegulas (just plural, no possessive apostrophe needed) must be satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said: Bills under Pegula’s. Sorry, should have been more clear. I want to try and make this as less subjective as possible. Where would you rank our overall talent acquisition across the league? 6th, 3rd, 1st? And what gauge should we use? Statistical quartiles analysis weighted based on positional importance? Where do we rank McDermott in coaching performance league wide? 10th, 7th, 3rd, etc? What statistical performance gauge are we using to judge coaches? I seriously want to know where we should be placing blame mathematically. Where is crappy fans that question everything. I think the lack of Super Bowls is directly related to you as a fan. Your negativity caused angst and created the issue - you are the reason - plain and simple. JHC - what garbage. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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