Jim Harbaugh is going back to Michigan.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Yawn.. He’s nothing special 

He’s done well everywhere he goes.  High drama and not the greatest track record in high stakes games.  Basically the Aaron Rodgers of football.

[vincec]

13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He’s done well everywhere he goes.  High drama and not the greatest track record in high stakes games.  Basically the Aaron Rodgers of football.

Harbaugh wishes.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Hapless Bills Fan
inserted missing text so the whole chain would make sense

[YoloinOhio]

48 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He’s done well everywhere he goes.  High drama and not the greatest track record in high stakes games.  Basically the Aaron Rodgers of football.

He’s walking back into UM like George costanza. He thought he had an nfl job and told everyone he was leaving. He is crawling back to Michigan after telling recruits and parents that  he wants out,  and then telling his coaches to take a week off to work on their own future jobs. Its an all-time classic Harbaugh WTF. Good luck to him, except for the last Saturday in November. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I did not expect the response to be “elated,” for a guy desperate to leave. 

Abusive codependency? 🤔

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s walking back into UM like George costanza. He thought he had an nfl job and told everyone he was leaving. He is crawling back to Michigan after telling recruits and parents that  he wants out,  and then telling his coaches to take a week off to work on their own future jobs. Its an all-time classic Harbaugh WTF. Good luck to him, except for the last Saturday in November. 

 

Now this sounds tacky indeed

[ExiledInIllinois]

Boy this is a shock!

 

/sarcasm

 

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Sooooo........wonder if DeMeko Ryans, the reported front-runner at one point, now thinks differently of his decision to forgoe a second interview?

 

Yesterday's "sham" is tomorrow's "clincher" when the #1 choice goes away

Is Flores upset he pulled the rip cord too early?

[LABILLBACKER]

Kelly would've just punched him out anyway. 

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

There’s a right way to do this. Have paperwork documented listing all the pros and cons of each candidate and thoughts of the people he met with. Based your decision based on these documents. And, for the love of God, don’t decided on the position until after all candidates have interviewed.

That's exactly what we do that where I work. We also have a formalized rubric of criteria & competencies we grade against.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, LeviF said:

That was really my point. Nobody is arguing that Michigan is a blue chip program or will be at some point. Ten wins and a decent bowl game is a good season for them. Going to the CFP is incredible, but not an expectation. 

 

It is surely the expectation that they win a bowl game once in a while (1-5) and beat Michigan State more often than not (3-4), right? 

 

I get it, regular trips to the CFP and regular victories over Ohio State are probably unrealistic. And hence 2021 was an over achievement. But I think lots of the prior years were under achievements by the same standard. 

 

I have always said the same about Jim Harbaugh no team he coaches will ever suck. Equally no team he coaches will ever win a Championship. 

[LeviF]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is surely the expectation that they win a bowl game once in a while (1-5) and beat Michigan State more often than not (3-4), right? 

 

I get it, regular trips to the CFP and regular victories over Ohio State are probably unrealistic. And hence 2021 was an over achievement. But I think lots of the prior years were under achievements by the same standard. 

 

I have always said the same about Jim Harbaugh no team he coaches will ever suck. Equally no team he coaches will ever win a Championship. 

Maybe, but if that’s the standard how did the three coaches before him do? I seem to remember many years when they weren’t even bowl eligible. 

 

I don’t think Harbaugh is a great coach but he’s probably top half in the NFL if he signed tomorrow. In a league where the bottom 25% get the axe that’s not terrible. 
 

Harbaugh’s issue has always been quarterbacking, and when the issue wasn’t the quarterback (Andrew Luck) he was, again, not at a blue chip program. This isn’t an excuse, since at Michigan the recruiting of said quarterback falls squarely on him. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, LeviF said:

Maybe, but if that’s the standard how did the three coaches before him do? I seem to remember many years when they weren’t even bowl eligible. 

 

I don’t think Harbaugh is a great coach but he’s probably top half in the NFL if he signed tomorrow. In a league where the bottom 25% get the axe that’s not terrible. 
 

Harbaugh’s issue has always been quarterbacking, and when the issue wasn’t the quarterback (Andrew Luck) he was, again, not at a blue chip program. This isn’t an excuse, since at Michigan the recruiting of said quarterback falls squarely on him. 

 

In the 5 seasons before Harbaugh they went to 4 bowl games and went 1-3 in them. They went 1-4 vs Ohio State and 1-4 vs Michigan State. Two coaches got fired on the basis of those results. Now Harbaugh has won more regular season games, don't get my wrong. He is a better coach than Brady Hoke and Rich Rodriguez. But the standards that got those guys fired for not achieving are not that different to the standards Harbaugh has reached. 2021, he did an excellent job, and I think all the caveats "well it was an experienced team" etc are irrelevant. The team whoever it was made up of made the CFP, was ranked 3rd in the country and beat Ohio State. That is a very good year by Michigan standards it is an over achievement. They can't expect to beat Ohio State and make the CFP every year. Beating Michigan State more often than not and winning bowl games.... that is a standard they can expect and other coaches that didn't do that got fired. 

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In the 5 seasons before Harbaugh they went to 4 bowl games and went 1-3 in them. They went 1-4 vs Ohio State and 1-4 vs Michigan State. Two coaches got fired on the basis of those results. Now Harbaugh has won more regular season games, don't get my wrong. He is a better coach than Brady Hoke and Rich Rodriguez. But the standards that got those guys fired for not achieving are not that different to the standards Harbaugh has reached. 2021, he did an excellent job, and I think all the caveats "well it was an experienced team" etc are irrelevant. The team whoever it was made up of made the CFP, was ranked 3rd in the country and beat Ohio State. That is a very good year by Michigan standards it is an over achievement. They can't expect to beat Ohio State and make the CFP every year. Beating Michigan State more often than not and winning bowl games.... that is a standard they can expect and other coaches that didn't do that got fired. 

Reality wise Michigan has one of the weakest schedules in college football next year. Their out of conference games are Colorado State, Hawaii, and UConn. they should fall into 10 wins again and his name will be in the mix once more for NFL jobs next year. Rivalry wins, conference championships, playoffs, bowl wins etc are important to cfb fans as a measure of success but the nfl will continue to lean on what he did when he was there. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Willyville Guy]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s walking back into UM like George costanza. He thought he had an nfl job and told everyone he was leaving. He is crawling back to Michigan after telling recruits and parents that  he wants out,  and then telling his coaches to take a week off to work on their own future jobs. Its an all-time classic Harbaugh WTF. Good luck to him, except for the last Saturday in November. 

Just pretend it never happened!

[BarleyNY]

12 hours ago, wppete said:

Jim Harbaugh is all drama 😂 

He’s never been afraid to milk every good moment he’s ever had for every last dollar it could get him.  

Edited February 3, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

He’s never been afraid to milk every good moment one’s ever had for every last dollar it could get him.  

We need to borrow LinkedIn's 'insightful' light bulb.💡

[eball]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Minnesota going with the Giants DC now? Wonder if the Flores lawsuit is trickling in here. I would HATE to be a team with an open HC job at the moment. It's a 100% lose/lose for them.

 

The day after the lawsuit was filed I noticed a tweet from the Vikings lauding their 2nd HC interview with a black candidate.  It’s extremely possible they thought about things and decided hiring Harbaugh — another white retread — over a black candidate they obviously “like” might not be the prudent move.

 

I don’t like the idea of teams being “pressured” into making certain hires but if the Vikings go that direction in this instance I kinda like it.

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

The day after the lawsuit was filed I noticed a tweet from the Vikings lauding their 2nd HC interview with a black candidate.  It’s extremely possible they thought about things and decided hiring Harbaugh — another white retread — over a black candidate they obviously “like” might not be the prudent move.

 

I don’t like the idea of teams being “pressured” into making certain hires but if the Vikings go that direction in this instance I kinda like it.

 

 

Minnesota is hiring O'Connell. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

33 minutes ago, eball said:

 

The day after the lawsuit was filed I noticed a tweet from the Vikings lauding their 2nd HC interview with a black candidate.  It’s extremely possible they thought about things and decided hiring Harbaugh — another white retread — over a black candidate they obviously “like” might not be the prudent move.

 

I don’t like the idea of teams being “pressured” into making certain hires but if the Vikings go that direction in this instance I kinda like it.

 

I agree with what you are saying by and large.

 

My thought, however is that of any white coach the Vikings could choose, Harbaugh and his resume would be an understandable, plausible and even almost bulletproof coach to pick. He has experience, a successful track record and is qualified for the job.

 

The rumor now falls that the Vikings are picking Kevin O'Connell. A 36 year old who has been a coach for 5 years and is yet another Caucasian coach fasttracked into being a HC. This was the first interview he had. After Harbaugh "withdrew" the rumored finalists were O'Connell, Raheem Morris and Patrick Graham. One of those guys isn't like the others.

 

This isn't to say O'Connell won't do the job or didn't win it outright by being the best interview...but the optics on this hire are not great at all.

Edited February 3, 2022 by BuffaloBillyG

[eball]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Minnesota is hiring O'Connell. 

 

Ok, well forget what I said.  

 

[YoloinOhio]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I agree with what you are saying by and large.

 

My thought, however is that of any white coach the Vikings could choose, Harbaugh and his resume would be an understandable, plausible and even almost bulletproof coach to pick. He has experience, a successful track record and is qualified for the job.

 

The rumor now falls that the Vikings are picking Kevin O'Connell. A 36 year old who has been a coach for 5 years and is yet another Caucasian coach fasttracked into being a HC. This was the first interview he had. After Harbaugh "withdrew" the rumored finalists were O'Connell, Raheem Morris and Patrick Graham. One of those guys isn't like the others.

 

This isn't to say O'Connell won't do the job or didn't win it outright by being the best interview...but the optics on this hire are not great at all.

Harbaugh didn’t withdraw, he wasn’t offered the job. They offered it to O’Connell. They interviewed all of these guys for 9 hours each in person. The optics don’t look good because he’s an inexperienced white guy, but if they think he’s the best candidate, it is what it is. The GM is a minority so there’s that. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In the 5 seasons before Harbaugh they went to 4 bowl games and went 1-3 in them. They went 1-4 vs Ohio State and 1-4 vs Michigan State. Two coaches got fired on the basis of those results. Now Harbaugh has won more regular season games, don't get my wrong. He is a better coach than Brady Hoke and Rich Rodriguez. But the standards that got those guys fired for not achieving are not that different to the standards Harbaugh has reached. 2021, he did an excellent job, and I think all the caveats "well it was an experienced team" etc are irrelevant. The team whoever it was made up of made the CFP, was ranked 3rd in the country and beat Ohio State. That is a very good year by Michigan standards it is an over achievement. They can't expect to beat Ohio State and make the CFP every year. Beating Michigan State more often than not and winning bowl games.... that is a standard they can expect and other coaches that didn't do that got fired. 

He is 59-19 there if you exclude the ridiculous covid season. The other thing is that Michigan is one of the very best academic institutions in the world (e.g., https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/ranking ), and while the Michigan football program mostly gets around this problem, they can’t get around it entirely. It is recognized by most people as an academically challenging school, which it is (although there are easy majors there too, and the football players are steered toward them). They are basically in the same boat as Notre Dame, Cal, Northwestern, UVA, and UCLA (Stanford and Duke are at a different level with regard to admissions). They can’t take just anyone, and the school does have an academic image to maintain. It makes a difference, especially at the margins.

[BuffaloBillyG]

14 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Harbaugh didn’t withdraw, he wasn’t offered the job. They offered it to O’Connell. They interviewed all of these guys for 9 hours each in person. The optics don’t look good because he’s an inexperienced white guy, but if they think he’s the best candidate, it is what it is. The GM is a minority so there’s that. 

I agree that is how it is being presented. As we all should know by now what the actual chain of events that took place behind closed doors may differ from that. 

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He is 59-19 there if you exclude the ridiculous covid season. The other thing is that Michigan is one of the very best academic institutions in the world (e.g., https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/ranking ), and while the Michigan football program mostly gets around this problem, they can’t get around it entirely. It is recognized by most people as an academically challenging school, which it is (although there are easy majors there too, and the football players are steered toward them). They are basically in the same boat as Notre Dame, Cal, Northwestern, UVA, and UCLA (Stanford and Duke are at a different level with regard to admissions). They can’t take just anyone, and the school does have an academic image to maintain. It makes a difference, especially at the margins.

 

I don't dispute any of that. But they didn't hire Jim Harbaugh just to finish 10-2 every year (with losses to Ohio State and Michigan State) and then lose a bowl game. 

 

I don't expect them to win the National Championship, or to make the playoffs regularly, or even to beat Ohio State every year. That isn't realistic. Being around .500 in bowl games (rather than 1-5) and beating Michigan State more often that not I think is realistic and that is the criteria by which I would assert that 2021 apart he has underachieved. And it is classic Jim Harbaugh. His career is littered with big game losses to inferior teams. 

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't dispute any of that. But they didn't hire Jim Harbaugh just to finish 10-2 every year (with losses to Ohio State and Michigan State) and then lose a bowl game. 

 

I don't expect them to win the National Championship, or to make the playoffs regularly, or even to beat Ohio State every year. That isn't realistic. Being around .500 in bowl games (rather than 1-5) and beating Michigan State more often that not I think is realistic and that is the criteria by which I would assert that 2021 apart he has underachieved. And it is classic Jim Harbaugh. His career is littered with big game losses to inferior teams. 

Well, one of those losses to MSU was one of the most ridiculous losses ever (the blocked punt one). Harbaugh coached well in that game and lost on a complete fluke in a game that Michigan had in the bag (btw, my wife went to MSU).  

[Ross Murdock]

Stayed with the easier job. Not much of a risk taker. Maybe the Vikes will take another look at Frazier? I'd prefer the Bills to have two new coordinators in 2022 to freshen things up. Frazier helped botch the Chiefs game. 

[TheFunPolice]

I think the issue is that Harbaugh reportedly wanted the "John Gruden contract" of 100+million dollars and total roster control on top of that.

 

I could see a GM saying "no thanks" to having zero authority.

 

These guys should bet on themselves: 3 year deal for 7 million per year, but 100% total control of roster and draft picks. 

 

If after that 3 years you are rolling then the big $$ comes. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Ross Murdock said:

Stayed with the easier job. Not much of a risk taker. Maybe the Vikes will take another look at Frazier? I'd prefer the Bills to have two new coordinators in 2022 to freshen things up. Frazier helped botch the Chiefs game. 

He wanted the Vikings job. He didn’t get it. 

[Coach Tuesday]

19 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He wanted the Vikings job. He didn’t get it. 

 

There's more to it than that I think.  He probably HAD the Vikings job until things took a left turn at around 3 p.m.  Dude is so batshit he probably did something nutso mid-afternoon, like put his snakeskin boots up on Wilf's desk while picking his teeth with a machete.

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

There's more to it than that I think.  He probably HAD the Vikings job until things took a left turn at around 3 p.m.  Dude is so batshit he probably did something nutso mid-afternoon, like put his snakeskin boots up on Wilf's desk while picking his teeth with a machete.

As Paul Finebaum said today, this guy could screw up a 1 car funeral.

[Mark Vader]

5 hours ago, LeviF said:

Maybe, but if that’s the standard how did the three coaches before him do? I seem to remember many years when they weren’t even bowl eligible. 

 

I don’t think Harbaugh is a great coach but he’s probably top half in the NFL if he signed tomorrow. In a league where the bottom 25% get the axe that’s not terrible. 
 

Harbaugh’s issue has always been quarterbacking, and when the issue wasn’t the quarterback (Andrew Luck) he was, again, not at a blue chip program. This isn’t an excuse, since at Michigan the recruiting of said quarterback falls squarely on him. 

J.J. McCarthy is probably the best QB prospect that Harbaugh has recruited since he arrived at Michigan.

 

It's a big year for them next season.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

I think the issue is that Harbaugh reportedly wanted the "John Gruden contract" of 100+million dollars and total roster control on top of that.

 

I could see a GM saying "no thanks" to having zero authority.

 

These guys should bet on themselves: 3 year deal for 7 million per year, but 100% total control of roster and draft picks. 

 

If after that 3 years you are rolling then the big $$ comes. 

 

Not according to an article in the Athletic:

https://theathletic.com/3108906/2022/02/03/from-jim-harbaugh-to-kevin-oconnell-an-inside-look-at-a-shocking-day-amid-the-vikings-coaching-search/?redirected=1

Quote

Harbaugh started to feel it, too. He left Ann Arbor believing he was not coming back, and as the process got rolling, it started to look like he would be in Minnesota to stay.

 

But the Vikings had some hard questions to ask. They wanted to know more about his style and ability to work with others. They wanted to know more about how things ended with the 49ers. They wanted to hear his vision for leading this team back to the Super Bowl for the first time since 1977.

 

Sometime around 3 p.m., for reasons that are not exactly clear, things started to take a left turn. The tenor started to change, and if there was any momentum at Harbaugh’s back as he tried to secure the job, it disappeared.

 

It sounds as though the Vikings had some hard questions for Harbaugh and didn't like his answers.

 

Quote

The reason had nothing to do with money or a contract because the Vikings did not offer Harbaugh the job, sources said. There do not appear to be any hard feelings on either side — just a realization that this was not the right fit.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

This is like when Michael Scott thought he had the job with corporate, and told everyone he was leaving and then had to come back to Scranton and pretend he was joking the whole time. 

[Nextmanup]

I'm glad he's totally out of the AFC East picture for sure.

 

Why change what ain't broken?

We are lucky to be dominant at a time when Miami, the Jets, and even the Patriots are down.

 

As long as we can win our division without that much fuss, we get that automatic invitation to the post season dance, and that's all we need to win a SB, if things go our way.

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm glad he's totally out of the AFC East picture for sure.

 

Why change what ain't broken?

We are lucky to be dominant at a time when Miami, the Jets, and even the Patriots are down.

 

As long as we can win our division without that much fuss, we get that automatic invitation to the post season dance, and that's all we need to win a SB, if things go our way.

 

 

Beating big divisional rivals ain't Jim's thing.

[Mark92]

I am an avid Michigan fan.  Much like my relationship with the Buffalo Bills much of the success comes from when I was an adolescent.  Harbaugh is definitely an odd duck but he brought something back to Michigan Football that it had been missing for the better part of 10 years under Brady Home and Rich Rodriguez.  I do completely believe that Harbaugh took Michigan as far as he is capable of taking them this past season.  Winning the Big 10, beating Ohio State and getting to the playoffs.  They can't compete with the SEC powers when it comes to 5 star recruits so a National Title is probably too much to ask for in today's game under Harbaugh.  Michigan now has a coach that has peaked and would rather be in the NFL.  While Harbaugh seems almost stuck at Michigan after being scorned by Minnesota.  It's odd and it's completely Jim Harbaugh.  Michigan has to taken the good with the bad here.  Hopefully there will be more good.  

[TheFunPolice]

Best for all not to proceed if fit is in question

[YoloinOhio]

4 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Best for all not to proceed if fit is in question

He’s such a weird, awkward guy. I’m guessing that the new GM requested he be in the interview process having worked with him in SF. The Vikes said ok and probably though he had a decent chance of being selected based on his nfl record. Then they met him.
 

Meanwhile the guy from the Rams is probably prepared for an actual interview with binders, analytics, and his first 50 plays he would run in the super bowl. 

 

harbaugh, after first asking who his secretary will be and what kind of private jet access he will get : “did you know chickens are nervous birds?”

[stuvian]

It does not take a wild imagination seeing Harbaugh undermining a new GM