Allen is better

[The Wiz]

I still like the mandalorian.

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

I was very pleased today. Not only do we not have to hear Chiefs fans talking tough for the next 2 weeks but THE GREATEST QUARTERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE played like a total bum in that second half and gifted the game to Cincy

Of course I’m aggressively biased 😂 but that game painted mahomes in a new light for me…like do we ever see him throw with any anticipation into tight windows? Watching him in the playoffs it’s just like…run around in circles until Kelce or hill are wide open and if they don’t come open try to run.  Credit the bengals for taking all of that away in the second half…whoever they had spying mahomes did a great job 

[ProcessTruster]

Love the " Winter Soldier" thing.  could build something around that.... 

[atlbillsfan1975]

25 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Any sort of list that has Montana ranked 11th is a useless stat. 

Is Josh still not the QB Belichick would want?

[RobbRiddick]

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Of course I’m aggressively biased 😂 but that game painted mahomes in a new light for me…like do we ever see him throw with any anticipation into tight windows? Watching him in the playoffs it’s just like…run around in circles until Kelce or hill are wide open and if they don’t come open try to run.  Credit the bengals for taking all of that away in the second half…whoever they had spying mahomes did a great job 

 

Well I admit I wanted him to lose so badly because of the way their fans are and the way the media treats him. He seems like an okay guy really but that whole 13 seconds thing was really pissing me off. Fun fact I learnt today, Mahomes threw that INT in overtime when 13 seconds had run off the clock! 

[Coffeesforclosers]

9 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Love the " Winter Soldier" thing.  could build something around that.... 

 

The King in the North was good, except Joe Burrow may win it all. And the nerdiest among us don't really want the image  Josh's body paraded through a burning castle with a wolf's head sewn onto his neck. Sorry for the GoT spoilers.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

9 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

Well I admit I wanted him to lose so badly because of the way their fans are and the way the media treats him. He seems like an okay guy really but that whole 13 seconds thing was really pissing me off. Fun fact I learnt today, Mahomes threw that INT in overtime when 13 seconds had run off the clock! 

The 13 seconds thing was nowhere near as bad as the chiefs getting no points before halftime against the bengals then blowing a huge lead if that makes you feel better haha 

 

our coaches def were not ready for that situation but it’s still not as embarrassing as we make it out to be.  Chiefs can hurt you in a lot of different ways and they were set up nice after that first down play.  Optics wise leaving Kelce wide open is terrible but they probably get in fg range after that first down play most of the time 

[BullBuchanan]

18 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

THE DEFENSE??!!!??? HAHAHAHA

 

oh yeah, that's what cost us the game... the defense. 

literally, yes.

Did you even watch our game or the Bengals game? Defense is undeniably what cost us and won the Bengals that game, despite Burrow's gaudy box score.

[PatsFanNH]

22 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Is Josh still not the QB Belichick would want?

Again he never would draft a QB like Allen.. Sorry that hurts peoples feelings on here but it’s just true.. look at the type of QBs he has drafted and NONE were like Allen coming out of college.. 

[ArtVandalay]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

literally, yes.

Did you even watch our game or the Bengals game? Defense is undeniably what cost us and won the Bengals that game, despite Burrow's gaudy box score.

Is this the Right To Censor version of Bull? 

 

Dude, we had the #1 defense on the league this year,  it aren't "fixing" that.... yes, I watched our game and the Bengals game, did you? What did the Bengals do?... They played physical, spied Mahomes all game, and when Mahomes turned his back to scramble the spy crashed on him. Our defense had the personnel to do that, but we didn't draw it up that way. 

 

We had the game won, with our defense, and the coaching staff utterly blew it in historic ineptitude. 

[Ghost_002!]

1 hour ago, prissythecat said:

Football is a team sport so saying that one QB is better than others is meaningless in isolation .  Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers are/were arguably better QBs than Tom Brady if you just look at pure passing stats .  But Tom Brady has twice as many Super Bowl wins as the two of them combined . Why is that ?  Because the Pats and Bucs had much better teams around Brady. 

 

 

But Manning and Rodgers did not play as well as Brady has played in the playoffs. Manning especially. His regular season is day and night compared to how you plays in the playoffs. 

 

I dont even know how yesterday games tells buffalo fans that Allen is better now? HUH? And dont get me wrong. He is definitely there but nothing that happened yesterday says Allen has over taken Mahommes. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Ghost_002!

[BullBuchanan]

16 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Is this the Right To Censor version of Bull? 

 

Dude, we had the #1 defense on the league this year,  it aren't "fixing" that.... yes, I watched our game and the Bengals game, did you? What did the Bengals do?... They played physical, spied Mahomes all game, and when Mahomes turned his back to scramble the spy crashed on him. Our defense had the personnel to do that, but we didn't draw it up that way. 

 

We had the game won, with our defense, and the coaching staff utterly blew it in historic ineptitude. 

This is just plainly wrong. Mahomes was sacked 4 times for 40 yards - at crucial times compared to 2 for 8 against us (one was a -.5 yard scramble).  The Bengals got consistent pass rush and their corners dealt with the receivers much better. We gave Mahomes a 33/44-378-3-0 line with a 123 rating compared to 26/39-275-3-2 with a 91 rating against the Bengals. Big time sacks, shutting down the big plays, and getting sacks was the difference in the ballgame. The Bengals in no way outgunned our offense

Our #1 defense was a bloated metric due to beating up trash opponents with one of the three easiest schedule sin the league. They fell flat against big time competition.

Edited January 31, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[ArtVandalay]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

This is just plainly wrong. Mahomes was sacked 4 times for 40 yards - at crucial times compared to 2 for 8 against us (one was a -.5 yard scramble).  The Bengals got consistent pass rush and their corners dealt with the receivers much better. We gave Mahomes a 33/44-378-3-0 line with a 123 rating compared to 26/39-275-3-2 against the Bengals. Big time sacks, shutting down the big plays, and getting sacks was the difference in the ballgame. The Bengals in no way outgunned our offense

Our #1 defense was a bloated metric due to beating up trash opponents with one of the three easiest schedule sin the league. They fell flat against big time competition.

Yes, the Bengals got more pressure because of how they approached Mahomes. If your watched the game it had to do with spying Mahomes as I mentioned. 

 

The Bills created plenty of "pressure" on Mahomes but he scrambled out to wide open field for big gains.  Cinci put a spy on him all day and when he turned his back to scramble, a very bad habit of his he did repeatedly during the game,the spy would crash down on him. The spy contained him all game as well.  

 

See, where we pushed Mahomes out of the pocket, he ran and picked up gobs of yards or made unimpeded throws out of the pocket. Whereas Cinci was able to use the spy to contain him and crash him once he took his eyes away from downfield and did not let him get comfortable on the run. 

 

That's coaching.  Or defense has the talent and production. 

 

Regardless that game was won and the coaching staff was negligent in their play calls at the end of the game, handing KC free yards and a FG. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[Buffalo716]

22 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Again he never would draft a QB like Allen.. Sorry that hurts peoples feelings on here but it’s just true.. look at the type of QBs he has drafted and NONE were like Allen coming out of college.. 

Because he hasn't had the chance to draft a guy like Josh Allen

 

The dude picks at the bottom of the first round where your left with guys like garoppolo 

 

He's never had the chance to take a dynamic QB  

 

Allen didn't magically become good.. he's always been good .. had no cast at Wyoming

 

If Bill saw Josh live and couldn't see the talent then he's not a good coach.. because when you see him in person it is very clear

[PatsFanNH]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Because he hasn't had the chance to draft a guy like Josh Allen

 

The dude picks at the bottom of the first round where your left with guys like garoppolo 

 

He's never had the chance to take a dynamic QB  

 

Allen didn't magically become good.. he's always been good .. had no cast at Wyoming

 

If Bill saw Josh live and couldn't see the talent then he's not a good coach.. because when you see him in person it is very clear

Dude you could be right. I’m going based off his record when drafting QBs.. that’s all I can go on anything else just speculating, I for one thought Allen looked awful year one and could go either way.  I again say if he had a lesser coach he would have had a harder time becoming who he is today.. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Again he never would draft a QB like Allen.. Sorry that hurts peoples feelings on here but it’s just true.. look at the type of QBs he has drafted and NONE were like Allen coming out of college.. 

Um ... https://bleacherreport.com/articles/685062-ryan-mallett-five-reasons-hes-new-englands-future-at-quarterback 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Dude you could be right. I’m going based off his record when drafting QBs.. that’s all I can go on anything else just speculating, I for one thought Allen looked awful year one and could go either way.  I again say if he had a lesser coach he would have had a harder time becoming who he is today.. 

Josh Allen his rookie year.. played with one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL 

 

One of the worst receiving cores in the history of the NFL.. Zay Jones was his number one.. kelvin Benjamin looked like a tackle... Undrafted Robert Foster became his playmaker 

 

It was god-awful

 

And then if you actually watch the games through that lens it was clear Allen was the best player on the field for the bills 

 

And that you absolutely needed to surround him with talent .. he oozed talent his rookie year but he was unrefined and had little talent around him

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Doc]

3 hours ago, cle23 said:

 Any team that does not have a franchise quarterback and passes on one is stupid. It doesn't matter the situation. Again, it worked out for Buffalo in the long run but that doesn't mean the decision wasn't stupid.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.  As has been stated, if anyone knew how good Mahomes was going to be, he'd have been the 1st overall pick instead of Trubisky.  And if you want to play that game, picking Baker 1st overall was stupid.

 

3 hours ago, dakrider said:

I think Burrow still has a lot to learn.  Against the Titans, he held onto the ball way to long a couple of those sacks.  He's not a great runner but was able to make a couple big plays when he needed to. Keep in mind he's only 6 months younger than Allen is.  

But if anything these games show a great QB still needs great receivers, a good running back and at least a good defense in order to succeed. 

 

Yeah, he holds the ball too long.  That's why I chuckled when some said he processes things faster than Josh.

[The Frankish Reich]

8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

18 hours ago, Rico said:

 

Funny how those telling us to "shut up" forget this fact.  For YEARS after the KC trade we had to read comments and threads that talked ONLY about not picking Mahomes. 

Of course in retrospect we should've kept the pick and drafted Mahomes. 

Of course in retrospect we we smart (and more than a little bit lucky) to grab Allen in the next year's draft.

These should not be controversial propositions. They are right there on the order with this one:

Of course in retrospect the Broncos should have drafted Allen instead of Bradley Chubb.

That's why it gets tedious when fans start arguing as if there was some grand plan. The Bills blew it with Mahomes - they didn't think he had what it takes to be their franchise QB. But it simply doesn't matter anymore since we got it right the following year.

[Rico]

11 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Of course in retrospect we should've kept the pick and drafted Mahomes. 

Of course in retrospect we we smart (and more than a little bit lucky) to grab Allen in the next year's draft.

These should not be controversial propositions. They are right there on the order with this one:

Of course in retrospect the Broncos should have drafted Allen instead of Bradley Chubb.

That's why it gets tedious when fans start arguing as if there was some grand plan. The Bills blew it with Mahomes - they didn't think he had what it takes to be their franchise QB. But it simply doesn't matter anymore since we got it right the following year.

Mahomes, his brother, his fiance, and his mother are extremely bad fits for Buffalo. Thank God THEY did not come here. 

[Charles Romes]

 1Josh Allen106.62018-2021buf2Patrick Mahomes105.72017-2021kan3Bart Starr+104.81956-1971gnb4Kurt Warner+102.81998-20092TM5Matt Ryan100.82008-2021atl6Matthew Stafford100.62009-20212TM7Aaron Rodgers100.12005-2021gnb8Nick Foles 98.82012-2021phi9Alex Smith97.42005-20202TM10Drew Brees97.12001-20202TM11Joe Montana+95.61979-19942TM12Russell Wilson95.32012-2021sea13Mark Sanchez94.32009-2018nyj14Ken Anderson93.51971-1986cin15Tony Romo93.02004-2016dal16Joe Theismann91.41974-1985was17Tom Brady90.42000-20212TM18Joe Flacco88.62008-2021rav19Troy Aikman+88.31989-2000dal20Cam Newton87.72011-2021

 

 

it’s great that Josh is officially number 1, but adjusted for era, Bart Starr’s passer rating would be like a 200. He put up a 104.8 back when it was legal to take the receiver’s head off when the ball was in the air. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Some guy I was listening to the other day on the radio said it best about Josh…part John Elway…part Derrick Henry…all Buffalo 

[Turbo44]

8 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

It was stupid.  Passing on a franchise QB when you don't have one is stupid.  And yes, most people didn't realize what Mahomes would become, and anyone team that passed on him without a franchise QB before the Bills did are also stupid.  

 

And the Chiefs had Alex Smith at QB when they drafted Mahomes.  I would never categorize Smith as elite, but he was a good QB at that point in his career.  He had 26TDs and 5 INTs Mahomes' rookie year in 15 games.  

History fact: Watson was universally ranked higher than Mahomes in 2017 yet mahomes went two picks earlier. Good job by KC, though Watson is quite the player too when clothed.

[finn]

I gotta say, I would rather have had the Bills lose to KC after that great game than win and have Allen choke against the Bengals afterwards like Mahomes. We would spent had the whole offseason reading about how Mahomes would have run the table, that he's the next GOAT, etc. Now, you can't say with a straight face that Mahomes is better, not after that choke job and after what Allen accomplished in his two playoff games.

 

It's now officially cool to celebrate Allen, and that wouldn't be the case if he had choked like the Grim Reaper. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Josh Allen his rookie year.. played with one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL 

 

One of the worst receiving cores in the history of the NFL.. Zay Jones was his number one.. kelvin Benjamin looked like a tackle... Undrafted Robert Foster became his playmaker 

 

It was god-awful

 

And then if you actually watch the games through that lens it was clear Allen was the best player on the field for the bills 

 

And that you absolutely needed to surround him with talent .. he oozed talent his rookie year but he was unrefined and had little talent around him

 

 

And why was that?  Because McD didn't give a rats ass about offense.   Same with Tyrod.  Old news.

[cle23]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Hindsight is 20/20.  As has been stated, if anyone knew how good Mahomes was going to be, he'd have been the 1st overall pick instead of Trubisky.  And if you want to play that game, picking Baker 1st overall was stupid.

 

Baker is trending down. If he doesn't greatly improve, then yes, it was a stupid pick. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Charles Romes said:

 1Josh Allen106.62018-2021buf2Patrick Mahomes105.72017-2021kan3Bart Starr+104.81956-1971gnb4Kurt Warner+102.81998-20092TM5Matt Ryan100.82008-2021atl6Matthew Stafford100.62009-20212TM7Aaron Rodgers100.12005-2021gnb8Nick Foles 98.82012-2021phi9Alex Smith97.42005-20202TM10Drew Brees97.12001-20202TM11Joe Montana+95.61979-19942TM12Russell Wilson95.32012-2021sea13Mark Sanchez94.32009-2018nyj14Ken Anderson93.51971-1986cin15Tony Romo93.02004-2016dal16Joe Theismann91.41974-1985was17Tom Brady90.42000-20212TM18Joe Flacco88.62008-2021rav19Troy Aikman+88.31989-2000dal20Cam Newton87.72011-2021

 

 

it’s great that Josh is officially number 1, but adjusted for era, Bart Starr’s passer rating would be like a 200. He put up a 104.8 back when it was legal to take the receiver’s head off when the ball was in the air. 

I always hear this as a way to downgrade current QB stats compared to those from the golden age.  But were those 1960's/70's defenses as sophisticated in their coverage schemes and blitz packages as today's defenses are? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Well. There are some 'fans' out there, on gameday, that would leave you wondering.... 😆

 

Quick someone, photoshop a Bills cap onto this fella:

 

1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

History fact: Watson was universally ranked higher than Mahomes in 2017 yet mahomes went two picks earlier. Good job by KC, though Watson is quite the player too when clothed.

 

I thought the problem is that Watson tries to be too much the "player" when NOT clothed

[Doc]

51 minutes ago, cle23 said:

Baker is trending down. If he doesn't greatly improve, then yes, it was a stupid pick. 

 

So it was a stupid pick from the get-go.  Even though the Browns needed a franchise QB.

 

Would you say not taking Mahomes in 2017 was also a stupid decision?  I mean, Garrett is a good player, but Mahomes would have transformed your franchise.

[LifeLongFan]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:57 PM, Nextmanup said:

Mahomes had a lousy 2nd half by his standards.

 

Probably still the best QB in the game right now.

 

When Josh has a QB ring too, the debate will be more interesting.

 

 

was Eli Manning better then Aaron Rodgers or Brett Favre?  Rings are irrelevant to a point!   Josh is more dangerous then Mahomes! (Period) Pat has a Cheetah and HOF Tight end...  

[Jackalope89]

When "On", Mahomes and Allen can go toe to toe. Both proved that last weekend. Difference is, without Kelce and Hill, Mahomes doesn't distribute much. Josh, well, you're not an o-linemen, decent chance you get the ball.

[The Wiz]

41 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So it was a stupid pick from the get-go.  Even though the Browns needed a franchise QB.

 

Would you say not taking Mahomes in 2017 was also a stupid decision?  I mean, Garrett is a good player, but Mahomes would have transformed your franchise.

It's not exactly a fair comparison saying that Mahomes would have transformed the franchise based on where we were at the time and where the Chiefs were at the same time having gone 11-5, 11-4 and 9-6 from '15-'17.

 

Could he have, sure.  The Chiefs at the time though were a much better equipped organization from top to bottom for developing him including letting him sit and learn behind Alex Smith.

[Doc]

Just now, The Wiz said:

It's not exactly a fair comparison saying that Mahomes would have transformed the franchise based on where we were at the time and where the Chiefs were at the same time having gone 11-5, 11-4 and 9-6 from '15-'17.

 

Could he have, sure.  The Chiefs at the time though were a much better equipped organization from top to bottom for developing him including letting him sit and learn behind Alex Smith.

 

I think guys like Mahones, Josh, etc, would have thrived wherever.  Guys like Darnold, Mayfield, etc. would have failed wherever.

[CincyBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, Jackalope89 said:

When "On", Mahomes and Allen can go toe to toe. Both proved that last weekend. Difference is, without Kelce and Hill, Mahomes doesn't distribute much. Josh, well, you're not an o-linemen, decent chance you get the ball.

This is a great point. Going back to Allen's rookie season think about all the receivers who had their best games/seasons with Allen throwing to them. Diggs, Brown, Beasley, McKenzie, Sanders, Davis and Foster.  Allen is the very definition of a QB that elevates those around him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

We needed that Patrick homes to show up the week before

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I think guys like Mahones, Josh, etc, would have thrived wherever.  Guys like Darnold, Mayfield, etc. would have failed wherever.

If you put Josh on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Bills there would have been different narratives about each of them with the talent they had around them at the time is my point.  I have a hard time thinking Mahomes would have made Zay Jones and Charles Clay look anything as good as Tyrek Hill and Travis Kelce.

 

 

Mayfield had the chance with a good deal of talent around him and failed. Darnold never really had the chance with the Jets.  Rosen had Fitzgerald at what feels like 40 years old.  Lamar had nothing but really didn't need anything since his game wasn't based on passing but running.

[78thealltimegreat]

3 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

If you put Josh on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Bills there would have been different narratives about each of them with the talent they had around them at the time is my point.  I have a hard time thinking Mahomes would have made Zay Jones and Charles Clay look anything as good as Tyrek Hill and Travis Kelce.

 

 

Mayfield had the chance with a good deal of talent around him and failed. Darnold never really had the chance with the Jets.  Rosen had Fitzgerald at what feels like 40 years old.  Lamar had nothing but really didn't need anything since his game wasn't based on passing but running.

This! Add to the fact Pat got to sit behind a playoff level team with Alex smith for a year with one of the

great offensive minds as coach.

Josh wasn’t  supposed to start and got thrown into the job cause Pederman and Mccarron where XFL caliber QBs and almost got McDermott fired 

Edited February 1, 2022 by 78thealltimegreat

[Doc]

Just now, The Wiz said:

If you put Josh on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Bills there would have been different narratives about each of them with the talent they had around them at the time is my point.  I have a hard time thinking Mahomes would have made Zay Jones and Charles Clay look anything as good as Tyrek Hill and Travis Kelce.

 

Mayfield had the chance with a good deal of talent around him and failed. Darnold never really had the chance with the Jets.  Rosen had Fitzgerald at what feels like 40 years old.  Lamar had nothing but really didn't need anything since his game wasn't based on passing but running.

 

Well to be fair, Josh's mechanics were terrible his first few seasons.  I think they would have been saying what they were saying when he was with the Bills, and that he was wasting Kelce and Hill.  But he would have made the leap in his 3rd year at the latest.  And while the talent on the Bills was poor, like Josh did, Mahomes would have shown he had what it takes.

 

As for Darnold, he had plenty of chances.  He's what most thought when he was in college: turnover prone and didn't have it mentally.  He's backup material at best.  Baker's just an average starter. 

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Well to be fair, Josh's mechanics were terrible his first few seasons.  I think they would have been saying what they were saying when he was with the Bills, and that he was wasting Kelce and Hill.  But he would have made the leap in his 3rd year at the latest.  And while the talent on the Bills was poor, like Josh did, Mahomes would have shown he had what it takes.

 

As for Darnold, he had plenty of chances.  He's what most thought when he was in college: turnover prone and didn't have it mentally.  He's backup material at best.  Baker's just an average starter. 

Even still, Josh did enough with subpar talent around him both in college and the NFL his first few seasons to show that there was something special about him.

 

I have no doubt that Mahomes would have shown that he was ready for the NFL and had what it takes but that's basing it on the fact that he would have had a year to sit and learn behind Turod.

 

As for Darnold, USC QBs have always been a flash in the pan to me.  They are great in college and are bad pros.

[CincyBillsFan]

Damn.  No more screw ups coach McD.