Leslie Frazier / Brian Daboll - If they go, who would you want as their replacement(s)?

[appoo]

39 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

 

I do not think it is the only way to go, as I do think a 4-3 scheme can work. 

 

BUT, like it or not there are more pass catchers on the field than ever, so more DBs and LBs are going to be on the field anyways. 

 

I wonder if you can keep McDermott's general defensive scheme while still going 3-4. 

 

His scheme isn't extraordinarily far from what the Bucs do honestly, who run a base 3-4. Both teams have a fulcrum around a pair of sideline to sideline backers - though I would suggest the Bucs have a slightly better pair of backers in Devin White (super star) and Lavonte David than the Bills do with Edmunds and Milano - both use a heavy mix of zones that act to protect their corners.

 

The real difference between the two is how they bring baseline pressure. The Bucs have slightly more versatility because they pick and choose which side to bring their rush guy, or be able to read and bring both, wheras the with 4 down you know which 4 are coming after the QB. And of course there's a bunch of gap and technique differences in a 3 man down and a 4 man down. 

 

If you can't get a game wrecker at DE, then I'd opt for a 3-4 with a pair of above average to good rushers at OLB because you can at least force the offense to guess more and you can be more varied in attack. Of course that also opens you up for more big plays and more risk. 

44 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

(1) It was 552 yards that included OT (477 yds in 10 drives in regulation to 422 yds in 9 drives for the Bills) and (2) over their last 8 games, the Chiefs averaged 44 yards per drive and 3.7 points per drive and were pretty much the same last night at 50 yards per drive and 3.8 points per drive. The Bills were actually pretty much the same at 47 yards per drive and 4 points per drive. 

 

The 2 best QBs in the NFL playing their best football in that 4th quarter - maybe the best I have ever seen in a playoff game.

 

I'm not ready to over to overreact

 

Right, Mahomes elevated to the situation at hand. The defense - mostly - did it's job

37 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Well Josh wants Dorsey, so imma go with that 

Let's call that "don't fix what's going extraordinarily well". Tweak the offense, don't change it.

[Victory Formation]

I would take Brian Flores in a heartbeat, but ultimately I think he will end up as Daboll’s DC in NY.

 

As far as OC goes, I think experience is key, particularly if we can find someone who has head coaching experience. Experience with the EPO is also a huge plus as well. Give me a stud OC who bottomed out as a HC.

[BB2004]

3 hours ago, BigdaddyinOrlando said:

Fangio for the D

Dorsey for the O

 

Would love to see Fangio as our D coordinator.  Was excellent with the Bears. Would anyone oppose Don Martindale?

[dpberr]

I don't want any retreads.  I don't want any curmudgeon old retreads either that come in and throw a whole new system at the team that takes players half a season to get a handle on.  We don't need to do what Rex Ryan did to Mario Williams and Marcel Dareus.  

 

My vote would be to give Jim Salgado, the Bills Nickel coach, a look.  You need new blood that can take the fundamentals of the Frazier defense and make it nastier.   

[BuffaloFan68]

4 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Mike Zimmer makes a lot of sense. 

 

Fangio is a 3-4 guy. A lot of what they do is 4-3 under type stuff, but not sure it meshes with McDermott. 

 

Brian Flores would be awesome.

 

Patrick Graham, who is a Belicheat/Flores disciple would be an interesting fit as well. 

 

Bring back Jim Schwartz. 

 

Or call me crazy, but is there anyone on the planet who knows what McDermott wants to do defensively more than Luke Kuechly? Dude is brilliant and knows exactly what coach wants. Everyone else is hiring young guys without experience, why not us? 

 

All that said, if Frazier gets another job is or is let go (which I think is highly unlikely) I think they just promote their DBs coach John Butler. 

I would love Schwartz but I don’t see TN letting him go

[BuffaloBillyG]

Miami possibly has Daboll #2? Just ahead of....Vance Joseph? 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

[vincec]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Fangio runs a very different scheme. 

I sure hope so.

[Billzgobowlin]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I badly want Flores for DC, but I think it’s possible he could get a HC offer still.  But if not, I would take him at DC in a heartbeat.  

You know Flores wants to stick it to the fish lol

[Draconator]

 

[Nihilarian]

Hopefully those two get hired away... Daboll as Giants new HC and Frazier as the Bears new HC.

 

Dorsey for OC

 

The defense is tougher because you don't need someone who will attempt to remake the whole thing. What the Bills already have does work and just needs someone a tad brighter. 

 

 

[Wyobills89]

1 hour ago, BB2004 said:

 

Would love to see Fangio as our D coordinator.  

That 2018 bears D was phenomenal. I wouldn't be opposed to Fangio.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I want Frazier gone regardless. I can’t see him getting a HC Job. I never saw that as a realistic possibility anyway. I want ‘McDermott to either basically be the DC and call the defense or bring in a guy that will be more aggressive. Either way I’m good but the super soft shell the Frazier plays is infuriating. I don’t care where they ended up…Schwartz defense was way better then these guys. And we have better players now. I want aggression from a defense and to force the issue. Not sit back and hope to bore the other team into mistakes.

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, Draconator said:

 

He is the right coach for Daniel Jones. Not saying it'll work out, but Jones has the tools and the offense has the weapons.  Plus the division isn't very good. 

3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I want Frazier gone regardless. I can’t see him getting a HC Job. I never saw that as a realistic possibility anyway. I want ‘McDermott to either basically be the DC and call the defense or bring in a guy that will be more aggressive. Either way I’m good but the super soft shell the Frazier plays is infuriating. I don’t care where they ended up…Schwartz defense was way better then these guys. And we have better players now. I want aggression from a defense and to force the issue. Not sit back and hope to bore the other team into mistakes.

You do realize that McDermott called those final defenses in regulation, right?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He is the right coach for Daniel Jones. Not saying it'll work out, but Jones has the tools and the offense has the weapons.  Plus the division isn't very good. 

You do realize that McDermott called those final defenses in regulation, right?

Not sure that I know that to be true. I do realize that I hated Frazier’s defenses when he was in Minnesota then I watched how they played here. Also watched the games where McD visibly took over the play calling and watched the pressure increase.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Not sure that I know that to be true. I do realize that I hated Frazier’s defenses when he was in Minnesota then I watched how they played here. Also watched the games where McD visibly took over the play calling and watched the pressure increase.

I just remember McDermott being right up in it in the sideline discussions after the TOs were called. It's his responsibility if he's that involved. Honestly, the first play was OK; you can't let yourself get beat deep. But the second one (the Kelce play) was ridiculous.

[Back2Buff]

It's sad that the only way we will get change on Defense is for Frazier to get hired.  McDermott isn't man enough to admit that a change is needed there.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I just remember McDermott being right up in it in the sideline discussions after the TOs were called. It's his responsibility if he's that involved. Honestly, the first play was OK; you can't let yourself get beat deep. But the second one (the Kelce play) was ridiculous.

Everything about it was terrible. Everything about the entire 4th quarter on D was terrible. And if Frazier isn’t making those calls, what is the point of him being here? Which is rhetorical honestly because I don’t want him here anyway regardless 

[Mat68]

I think Daboll is gone.  Not having to face Allen and Mcdermott twice a year is also a respect move.  NYG makes alot of sense. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

How can you not think the HC was no involved in those calls? It’s his defense after all…. Both royally ***** up. 

I never said he wasn’t involved but I’m not here to say I know McDermott called those plays

[Repulsif]

I want

McDaniels as OC

McVay as def coach

Belichick as coach (yes the hoodie)

 

You didn't asked for a realistic one

[SoMAn]

Somebody, anybody- as long as they come from the Carolina Panthers. 
 

 

[BillsFanSD]

5 minutes ago, Repulsif said:

I want

McDaniels as OC

McVay as def coach

Belichick as coach (yes the hoodie)

 

You didn't asked for a realistic one

I'll take Belichick as our gameday logistical coordinator and strategy consultant i.e. the guy who figures out how to cheat.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I really thought the cardinals DB coach Greg Williams did a heck of a job with what he had to work with and will be getting promoted by someone to DC, I'd take a look at him or NE LB Coach Jerrod Mayo has done a heck of a job with that crew plus working under "The Hoody" I'm sure he's picked up some things for sure. As far as OC I think Ken Dorsey would be the smart choice, definitely should get a promotion.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Ok, but what do you think was discussed during the TO?

I bet you that McDermott would not have wanted a wide open down the middle free release on Kelce and that I bet there was a screw up with guarding against the sideline but he’s not the guy to throw someone under the bus. So I doubt he will ever admit it.

[BuffaloBillyG]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Ok, but what do you think was discussed during the TO?

Places to eat in downtown KC is my guess.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

(1) It was 552 yards that included OT (477 yds in 10 drives in regulation to 422 yds in 9 drives for the Bills) and (2) over their last 8 games, the Chiefs averaged 44 yards per drive and 3.7 points per drive and were pretty much the same last night at 50 yards per drive and 3.8 points per drive. The Bills were actually pretty much the same at 47 yards per drive and 4 points per drive. 

 

The 2 best QBs in the NFL playing their best football in that 4th quarter - maybe the best I have ever seen in a playoff game.

 

I'm not ready to over to overreact

 

What the hell's your point? The defense was acceptable last night and nothing could be done. I guarantee that McD will see things were unacceptable and make changes. If that's an overreaction I'm in favor.

[Governor]

3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I bet you that McDermott would not have wanted a wide open down the middle free release on Kelce and that I bet there was a screw up with guarding against the sideline but he’s not the guy to throw someone under the bus. So I doubt he will ever admit it.

Frazier did the same exact thing in Minnesota . Great stats throughout the season, then totally folded in the playoffs. I don’t know why we hired him in the first place. We won’t ever win a SB with him. 

[Behindenemylines]

4 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

If Beane and McDermott don't realize a wholesale change in defensive philosophy in the offseason then maybe they don't deserve to be here long term.

 

And with guys like Martindale, Fangio, etc available the time is now to move on from Frazier whether he gets a HC gig or not.

Frazier has to go either way. Full stop   

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, BigdaddyinOrlando said:

Fangio for the D

Dorsey for the O

 

My thoughts exactly, dont know much about Dorsey but the teams seems to think highly of him and as long as Allen  is here any OC will look good.

 

Fangio is a great DC and is much better in that roll than HC, he is very creative with blitzes and coverages.

 

 

[GymShorts84]

Eric Washington will be the next DC. He knows the system and has the experience. Hopefully he’s bring some minor tweaks to get some pass rush. Last night was brutal, but the system is effective…..overall. 
 

For OC, I’d assume if it’s not Dorsey, he goes with Daboll as his OC. I want an aggressive play caller. For the sake of this thread, I’ll say Matt Nagy. Some guys are better coordinators than head coaches. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, GymShorts84 said:

Eric Washington will be the next DC. He knows the system and has the experience. Hopefully he’s bring some minor tweaks to get some pass rush. Last night was brutal, but the system is effective…..overall. 
 

For OC, I’d assume if it’s not Dorsey, he goes with Daboll as his OC. I want an aggressive play caller. For the sake of this thread, I’ll say Matt Nagy. Some guys are better coordinators than head coaches. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Fangio runs a very different scheme. 

 

 We could use a different scheme, something a little more aggressive

 

 

6 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Mike Zimmer makes a lot of sense. 

 

Fangio is a 3-4 guy. A lot of what they do is 4-3 under type stuff, but not sure it meshes with McDermott. 

 

Brian Flores would be awesome.

 

Patrick Graham, who is a Belicheat/Flores disciple would be an interesting fit as well. 

 

Bring back Jim Schwartz. 

 

Or call me crazy, but is there anyone on the planet who knows what McDermott wants to do defensively more than Luke Kuechly? Dude is brilliant and knows exactly what coach wants. Everyone else is hiring young guys without experience, why not us? 

 

All that said, if Frazier gets another job is or is let go (which I think is highly unlikely) I think they just promote their DBs coach John Butler. 

 

loved Schwartz and what he did here, we had a ton of sacks and could stop the run.

 

 

6 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Justin Zimmer? 
 

😁

 

he gets come back player of the year.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 We could use a different scheme, something a little more aggressive

 

 

 

loved Schwartz and what he did here, we had a ton of sacks and could stop the run.

 

 

Different schemes normally mean different players that fit the scheme.  With what's invested at this point it would be extremely foolish (bordering on a fireable offense) to push the rest button now.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Different schemes normally mean different players that fit the scheme.  With what's invested at this point it would be extremely foolish (bordering on a fireable offense) to push the rest button now.

 

No one really runs the 34 any more so i dont think it would be that big of a de as it used to be.

 

 

6 hours ago, zow2 said:

After last night, i can't imagine Frazier being introduced at some teams press conference as their new head coach.  Not after last night.  Disgraceful ending.

 

Eh, give it time someone will polish him right up.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Just Frazier

 

why just Frazier ?

 

 

James J. Schwartz (born June 2, 1966) is an American football coach who is a senior defensive assistant for the Tennessee Titans of the National Football League (NFL). He was head coach of the Detroit Lions of the National Football League (NFL) from 2009 to 2013. He was also defensive coordinator for the Titans from 2001 to 2008, Buffalo Bills in 2014, and Philadelphia Eagles from 2016 to 2020. He won Super Bowl LII with the Eagles in 2017.

Jim Schwartz

Schwartz in 2012

Tennessee Titans

Position:Senior defensive assistant

Personal information

Born:June 2, 1966 (age 55)
Halethorpe, Maryland

Career information

High school:Mount Saint Joseph
(Baltimore, Maryland)

College:Georgetown

Career history

As a coach:

Maryland (1989)
Graduate assistant, linebackers

Minnesota (1990)
Graduate assistant

North Carolina Central (1991)
Secondary coach

Colgate (1992)
Linebackers coach

Cleveland Browns (1993–1995)
Personnel scout

Baltimore Ravens (1996–1998)
Outside linebackers coach

Tennessee Titans (1999)
Defensive assistant

Tennessee Titans (2000)
Linebackers coach

Tennessee Titans (2001–2008)
Defensive coordinator

Detroit Lions (2009–2013)
Head coach

Buffalo Bills (2014)
Defensive coordinator

Philadelphia Eagles (2016–2020)
Defensive coordinator

Tennessee Titans (2021–present)
Senior defensive assistant

Career highlights and awards

Super Bowl champion (LII)

Head coaching record

Regular season:29–51 (.363)

Postseason:0–1 (.000)

Career:29–52 (.358)

Coaching stats at PFR

As a defensive-minded coach that emphasized strong defensive line play, Schwartz was known to build his units around a dominant interior lineman. Each of his stints as head coach or defensive coordinator resulted in at least one of his defensive tackles being named to the All-Pro First Team and Pro Bowl: Albert Haynesworth in Tennessee, Ndamukong Suh in Detroit, Marcell Dareus and Kyle Williams in Buffalo and Fletcher Cox in Philadelphia.[1]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Schwartz

 

I think with his emphasis on strong line play he could fit in here.

 

 

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

why just Frazier ?

 

 

James J. Schwartz (born June 2, 1966) is an American football coach who is a senior defensive assistant for the Tennessee Titans of the National Football League (NFL). He was head coach of the Detroit Lions of the National Football League (NFL) from 2009 to 2013. He was also defensive coordinator for the Titans from 2001 to 2008, Buffalo Bills in 2014, and Philadelphia Eagles from 2016 to 2020. He won Super Bowl LII with the Eagles in 2017.

Jim Schwartz

Schwartz in 2012

Tennessee Titans

Position:Senior defensive assistant

Personal information

Born:June 2, 1966 (age 55)
Halethorpe, Maryland

Career information

High school:Mount Saint Joseph
(Baltimore, Maryland)

College:Georgetown

Career history

As a coach:

Maryland (1989)
Graduate assistant, linebackers

Minnesota (1990)
Graduate assistant

North Carolina Central (1991)
Secondary coach

Colgate (1992)
Linebackers coach

Cleveland Browns (1993–1995)
Personnel scout

Baltimore Ravens (1996–1998)
Outside linebackers coach

Tennessee Titans (1999)
Defensive assistant

Tennessee Titans (2000)
Linebackers coach

Tennessee Titans (2001–2008)
Defensive coordinator

Detroit Lions (2009–2013)
Head coach

Buffalo Bills (2014)
Defensive coordinator

Philadelphia Eagles (2016–2020)
Defensive coordinator

Tennessee Titans (2021–present)
Senior defensive assistant

Career highlights and awards

Super Bowl champion (LII)

Head coaching record

Regular season:29–51 (.363)

Postseason:0–1 (.000)

Career:29–52 (.358)

Coaching stats at PFR

As a defensive-minded coach that emphasized strong defensive line play, Schwartz was known to build his units around a dominant interior lineman. Each of his stints as head coach or defensive coordinator resulted in at least one of his defensive tackles being named to the All-Pro First Team and Pro Bowl: Albert Haynesworth in Tennessee, Ndamukong Suh in Detroit, Marcell Dareus and Kyle Williams in Buffalo and Fletcher Cox in Philadelphia.[1]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Schwartz

 

I think with his emphasis on strong line play he could fit in here.

 

 

No. No.

 

Jim Schwartz needs HORSES up front. He is a GREAT DC when he has a great DL. We don’t have that.

[BuffaloBillyG]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

No one really runs the 34 any more so i dont think it would be that big of a de as it used to be.

 

 

 

Eh, give it time someone will polish him right up.

 

 

Right. Well except for the Green Bay Packers, Los Angeles Rams, Pittsburgh Steelers, Baltimore Ravens, New York Giants, New York Jets, Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Denver Broncos, Tennessee Titans, Houston Texans, Chicago Bears, and Arizona Cardinals. So 14 of 32 teams...nearly half run the 3-4 or a variant.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Does Luke Kuechly wanna coach? 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

It also has to be a scheme fit. Love Jimmy but I’m not sure he can teach the McDefense. A promote from within might make the most sense.

 

Something to consider with Frazier, things weren’t peaches and cream until last night. Sean has had to pull DC play calling and power from Frazier several times over the years to get things back on track. The defense underperformed significantly last year and looked average vs experienced QBs this year. 

 

Do you think we will move on from Frazier even if he doesn't get a HC job ?

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Right. Well except for the Green Bay Packers, Los Angeles Rams, Pittsburgh Steelers, Baltimore Ravens, New York Giants, New York Jets, Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Denver Broncos, Tennessee Titans, Houston Texans, Chicago Bears, and Arizona Cardinals. So 14 of 32 teams...nearly half run the 3-4 or a variant.

 

Yeah but its not the old 34 with huge front 7 players and outside linebackers basically as DEs

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Do you think we will move on from Frazier even if he doesn't get a HC job ?

 

Yeah but its not the old 34 with huge front 7 players and outside linebackers basically as DEs

 

 

Yea, most actually still do.