Tua had a "sh**ty work ethic and played golf on his days off instead of putting in extra work..Flores called him out

[Big Turk]

22 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Now ask Flores what Watson does on his days off 

 

The difference is Watson has earned the right to do whatever he wants with his play. Tua has not.

[JMF2006]

Maybe he wants to turn pro  

 

I guess when you know you suck you might as well enjoy yourself instead of wasting every ones time  

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Flores putting on a clinic on how not to never get an NFL HC job again...

 

I hope Fields doesn't golf

1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Sweet Fancy Moses! 😳

*
As for the thread title, do we fall back on the adage 'a bad workman always blames his tools'?

 

Or Tools always blame someone else

[JMF2006]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Hate to break it to you but Josh Allen plays golf too!

 

Flores is blaming his firing on having a bad QB plain and simple.  He kept putting Fitzy in and the Dolphins had to finally get rid of Fitzy so he would play Tua.  The rumors are that they are thinking if Houston hires Flores then Deshaun Watson will want to stay

 

Fitzy didn't have time to golf.....he was too busy getting busy

[298Woody]

The fact that Tua was noted voted a team captain says what his team mates think or don't think of him. Locally the fact that he has a weak arm rules him out of a future there.

[JMF2006]

1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

"Hey Coach!  Wanna make up a foursome?"

 

That might be Watson's war cry

[Coffeesforclosers]

The  Culley firing in Houston  was BS...unless...

 

Houston can hire Flores and Flores patches things up with Watson. Then Watson comes back, Flores gets his Franchise QB and a blank check to remake the organization, and Watson gets his coach.  Oh and Miami looks even dumber.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[JMF2006]

53 minutes ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

I believe Tua at a press conference (I would really have to dig for it) made a comment along the lines of I dont need to do anything outside of what’s asked of me.. I thought at the time what a weird comment…

 

I guess when your used to watching Josh improvising and throwing his body on the line that kind of struck me as he’s not all in.

 

I don’t know, Miami has treated him like crap too by never really shutting down the Watson stuff when it was out there. 

 

 

 

So they realized they had made a mistake and wanted to make another bigger one

 

Your not only auditioning for the Fins your trying out for the other 31 teams......man up. 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I play golf sometimes on my days off. Ssssh.

 

Your benched

[Draconator]

52 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I can’t even contain myself.  How can any of you sleep?  
 

I am bouncing off the walls with boundless energy.  I’ve done 8 pushups and 6 sit-ups and I swear on everything that I hold dear I could do 4  more, of each.

 

GO BILLS, BABY!

 

Slacker...

[JMF2006]

2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I’m so pumped they fired Flores 

 

Why? the Bills crushed them twice a year

 

What if they actually find someone competent ?  

 

Unlikely but it could happen

[Jay_Fixit]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I play golf sometimes on my days off. Ssssh.

But does Kyle Brandt do stupid videos for you?

[nucci]

33 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The difference is Watson has earned the right to do whatever he wants with his play. Tua has not.

even assaulting women?

[skibum]

I'm just grateful that 2 of the other 3 teams in the division are potentially facing years of struggle while the Bills are still within a window of success. I'll take any help we can get!

[RochesterLifer]

51 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The difference is Watson has earned the right to do whatever he wants with his play. Tua has not.

This is a really bad take, given what Watson has allegedly chosen to do on his days off.

[Gugny]

Is it just me, or does that article read like it was written by a 14-year-old?  That was God-awful.

 

Great info, though!  I feel bad for Flores.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Hate to break it to you but Josh Allen plays golf too!

 

Flores is blaming his firing on having a bad QB plain and simple.  He kept putting Fitzy in and the Dolphins had to finally get rid of Fitzy so he would play Tua.  The rumors are that they are thinking if Houston hires Flores then Deshaun Watson will want to stay

 

 

The problem isn't playing golf. It's when you do it. It's whether or not you've earned it, and it probably also relates to how hard you work during the week.  I doubt any coach would have a problem with golfing in the offseason, as an example.

41 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

Why? the Bills crushed them twice a year

 

What if they actually find someone competent ?  

 

Unlikely but it could happen

 

 

The reason the Bills crushed them has a lot to do with poor QB play and a much better roster. Flores appears to be a damn good coach, and he over-achieved there.

[KDIGGZ]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Josh Allen has put in endless amounts of work to improve at his craft. Tua has not. Allen's earned the right to go play golf if he wants to, Tua has not.

 

You think the dudes in that locker room respect him when they know he isn't committed to being the best QB he can be and improving as much as possible?

 

Right because you are there and you see how much work these guys put in. Or are you just going by what a salty fired coach said about his former team to make it seem like it wasn't his fault he's now unemployed?

 

All of these guys work hard. Here's a vid from last off-season showing how they were all excited by how hard Tua was working. The difference is he's just not very good. If Josh Allen was as bad as Tua I think you would have a problem with how much golf he plays too. Josh was probably the 7th best QB this season by the numbers so why is he playing so much golf when 40 yr olds are playing better than he is??? No down time just football 24/7!!!!

 

 

[Sierra Foothills]

The actual (original) Armando Salguero article: https://www.outkick.com/how-brian-flores-really-felt-about-tua-tagovailoa/

[TheFunPolice]

Tua found the NFL so easy he didn't need to really grind

[transient]

Tua’s entitled to spend his free time as he sees fit. If he’d rather improve his handicap than his skills as a QB, who am I to judge. Wasn’t Billy Joe Hobert a scratch golfer? His career turned out ok.
 

Couldn’t be happier that Flores going scorched earth on his way out the door basically negates any return in a trade and forces the Dolphins to ride it out with him or cut bait. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Wow...Tua looks like the anti Josh Allen...dude would rather play golf than work on his craft during days off...

 

Flores told management "We'll never wins a Championship with this guy." and apparently used to get on him constantly about it including in front of others...

 

https://dolphinstalk.com/2022/01/brian-flores-didnt-like-that-tua-played-golf-on-his-off-days-and-had-a-questionable-work-ethic/

 

These young QBs don't walk in the door after the draft knowing how to prepare and how hard to work in the NFL.  If Flores isn't satisfied with Tua's work habits and ethics, what did he do to get to know Tua and persuade him that he cared about his success, or to keep energized players with great work habits around him in the QB room, and to guide and teach him?  Does he meet with Tua every week as Allen says he meets with McDermott?

 

Lest we forget, there were hints that after the Vikings victory, perhaps our QB didn't focus and prepare as he should have, only to get embarrassed completely against Green Bay the following week.  When I say "hints" I mean Eric Wood saying stuff about "needing to prepare consistently every week" on his segment which seemed pretty pointed at Allen.  The QB room was rookie Allen and Nathan Peterman.

 

Beane went out and signed Derek Anderson, not so much for his QB chops, as for his willingness to demonstrate an appropriate work ethic and habits.  Allen told a story about getting to the facility early (he thought), and finding that Anderson was already there lifting and telling them he'd be in the film room if they wanted to join him after they finished their lifts.

 

Daboll has made the point that until a player believes that you care about them as a person, they aren't going to listen to you as a coach.

 

All that said....a round of golf takes what, 2 hrs?  Maybe half an hour travel time on each end?  If Tua isn't preparing well enough, It's likely to be the other 165 hrs in the week that are the problem, not taking 3 hrs a week to play golf.  Allen has talked about taking time off to play video games, or have friends over, or take his puppy for a long walk.

 

 

 

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

This doesn’t surprise me at all.  I can understand Tua’s frustration with the Watson rumors, but that should’ve made him work harder, not go golfing.

I will never stop being surprised by the number of guys who effectively win a lottery ticket by ending up in the NFL, and then, on differing levels, throw it in the toilet and flush it away.

 

Sometimes it's with crime, or not being able to follow simple rules like get to the team meeting on time, or being a jerk with teammates or coaches, and on and on.

Tua's agent and support staff should have been letting him know he's a tweener and needs to work to stay in the league.

 

Now this sort of thing gets out there and it will probably cost this guy millions and millions off the back end of what would have been his backup career.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Nextmanup

[Freddie's Dead]

THEN WHY THE ***** DID YOU GIVE FITZY THE HOOK, YOU #######???  YOU DESERVED TO BE FIRED FLORES, YOU WEASELLY PRICK!!!

[NickelCity]

***** golf.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I will never stop being surprised by the number of guys who effectively win a lottery ticket by ending up in the NFL, and then, on differing levels, throw it in the toilet and flush it away.

 

Sometimes it's with crime, or not being able to follow simple rules like get to the team meeting on time, or being a jerk with teammates or coaches, and on and on.

Tua's agent and support staff should have been letting him know he's a tweener and needs to work to stay in the league.

 

Now this sort of thing gets out there and it will probably cost this guy millions and millions off the back end of what would have been his backup career.

 

Maybe all this stuff is just Flores excuse for being seen as under-achieving and shown the door.

 

No one has indicated that Tua hasn't followed rules, or has been a jerk with teammates and coaches, or in fact hasn't worked.

 

As I noted, playing golf for maybe 3 hrs once a week is probably not going to make or break his career vs. what he does in the other 165 hours there are in a week.  Most people need a little down time to clear their heads and return to the full-bore grind.

 

 

 

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Right because you are there and you see how much work these guys put in. Or are you just going by what a salty fired coach said about his former team to make it seem like it wasn't his fault he's now unemployed?

 

All of these guys work hard. Here's a vid from last off-season showing how they were all excited by how hard Tua was working. The difference is he's just not very good. If Josh Allen was as bad as Tua I think you would have a problem with how much golf he plays too. Josh was probably the 7th best QB this season by the numbers so why is he playing so much golf when 40 yr olds are playing better than he is??? No down time just football 24/7!!!!

 

 

Tua did blame himself for not knowing the playbook last year. Not a good look when Tua still has a long way to go. He can golf during the off season. They have plenty of time by missing the playoffs.

[Paup 1995MVP]

6 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

Well, we've owned Flores, and he has owned the Patriots ....  so I'm not so convinved this was a good thing for us??? .... But if it means the fish are committed to Tua (and no Watson), okay, I'll take that.

 

Also something else to consider, the Texans' new GM is a former Patriot front office guy: If the M Jones stinks again this evening, I have no doubt BB will be on the phone as soon as he can trying to swing a deal for Watson to come to NE. ... Twice a year Bill has seen how great athleticism in a QB can be so hard to defend, Watson is one of the few available (if he is) QB's who can match Allen in this way. ... Yeah, I can see this scenario happing.

 

Just some things to throw into the "be careful what you wish for" conundrum of life.

 

 

i don't see Watson playing well in the cold.  He is a southern boy who played at Clemson and in Houston.  Big difference playing in NE.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Right because you are there and you see how much work these guys put in. Or are you just going by what a salty fired coach said about his former team to make it seem like it wasn't his fault he's now unemployed?

 

All of these guys work hard. Here's a vid from last off-season showing how they were all excited by how hard Tua was working. The difference is he's just not very good. If Josh Allen was as bad as Tua I think you would have a problem with how much golf he plays too. Josh was probably the 7th best QB this season by the numbers so why is he playing so much golf when 40 yr olds are playing better than he is??? No down time just football 24/7!!!!

 

 

 

The salty coach was saying it to his face during the season all the time, what are you talking about?

 

Including telling management "We're not winning a championship with this guy".

 

Pretty sure he knows what QB preparation looks like coming from a team that had Tom Brady at QB.

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

These young QBs don't walk in the door after the draft knowing how to prepare and how hard to work in the NFL.  If Flores isn't satisfied with Tua's work habits and ethics, what did he do to get to know Tua and persuade him that he cared about his success, or to keep energized players with great work habits around him in the QB room, and to guide and teach him?  Does he meet with Tua every week as Allen says he meets with McDermott?

 

Lest we forget, there were hints that after the Vikings victory, perhaps our QB didn't focus and prepare as he should have, only to get embarrassed completely against Green Bay the following week.  When I say "hints" I mean Eric Wood saying stuff about "needing to prepare consistently every week" on his segment which seemed pretty pointed at Allen.  The QB room was rookie Allen and Nathan Peterman.

 

Beane went out and signed Derek Anderson, not so much for his QB chops, as for his willingness to demonstrate an appropriate work ethic and habits.  Allen told a story about getting to the facility early (he thought), and finding that Anderson was already there lifting and telling them he'd be in the film room if they wanted to join him after they finished their lifts.

 

Daboll has made the point that until a player believes that you care about them as a person, they aren't going to listen to you as a coach.

 

All that said....a round of golf takes what, 2 hrs?  Maybe half an hour travel time on each end?  If Tua isn't preparing well enough, It's likely to be the other 165 hrs in the week that are the problem, not taking 3 hrs a week to play golf.  Allen has talked about taking time off to play video games, or have friends over, or take his puppy for a long walk.

 

 

 

 

The one thing Flores reportedly said to Tua after the Tennessee game was "If I knew your were going to be this bad, I would have drafted Mac Jones"

[Mango]

8 hours ago, loyal2dagame said:

Are you expected to be one of the top 32 people in the world doing your job? 

I know I'm not. I good with being #33 😉

Steve Redgrave won the Olympics 5 times, at 5 different games, in a high volume sport. He golfed after practice a ton. 
 

I think Flores is probably correct that Tua isn’t good enough, and there’s probably truth that Tua has a tendency to be lazy. 
 

But also…your expectation that Tua can’t golf on off days because “starting QB” and “top 32 in the world” is totally flawed. 

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

i don't see Watson playing well in the cold.  He is a southern boy who played at Clemson and in Houston.  Big difference playing in NE.

Players get used to it. Aaron Rodgers is a California guy who played at Cal. Joe Namath and Bart Star were both Alabama kids who played for the Tide. 

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

This is a really bad take, given what Watson has allegedly chosen to do on his days off.

 

Ehh...funny how tons of massage therapists that worked with him said he was nothing but professional. I know a money grab when I see one.

3 hours ago, nucci said:

even assaulting women?

 

Or having women lie about what happened to try and get money? Gee...that's never happened before. 

 

Women are pros at it, and do it every day...ever had a woman flake on a date with you with some crazy sounding excuse? Guess what...it's a lie.

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The salty coach was saying it to his face during the season all the time, what are you talking about?

 

Including telling management "We're not winning a championship with this guy".

 

Pretty sure he knows what QB preparation looks like coming from a team that had Tom Brady at QB.

 

The one thing Flores reportedly said to Tua after the Tennessee game was "If I knew your were going to be this bad, I would have drafted Mac Jones"

Flores is probably correct here. Tua isn’t good enough and can be lazy. But it seems like his management of Tua is really bad. I liked Flores. But if all this is true, he shouldn’t be at the top of the totem pole when it comes

to managing people.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Mango

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

Flores is probably correct here. Tua isn’t good enough and can be lazy.

But it seems like his management of Tua is really bad. I liked Flores. But if all this is true, he shouldn’t be at the top of the totem pole when it comes

to managing people.

He clearly did not like Tua after a period of time and wanted to move on from him. Why do you think Gailey declined to come back?

Edited January 15, 2022 by Big Turk

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

He clearly did not like Tua after a period of time and wanted to move on from him. Why do you think Gailey declined to come back?

Right, that’s fine. 
 

But telling a guy that you would have drafted somebody else if you knew he was going to suck, is really bad people skills. 
 

Being a total grass hole to somebody just because they aren’t good at their job isn’t really ok. And 99% of the time doesn’t make them better at their job….which is what Flores was paid

to do. Make Tua better at his job. 
 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

The one thing Flores reportedly said to Tua after the Tennessee game was "If I knew your were going to be this bad, I would have drafted Mac Jones"

 

I thought that had been debunked by the guy who supposedly quoted him as saying it (Lombardi?)

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

Right, that’s fine. 
 

But telling a guy that you would have drafted somebody else if you knew he was going to suck, is really bad people skills. 
 

Being a total grass hole to somebody just because they aren’t good at their job isn’t really ok. And 99% of the time doesn’t make them better at their job….which is what Flores was paid to do. Make Tua better at his job. 
 

 

Bill Belichick is apparently noted for sarcastic digs at his players - "my mom could do that" "we could get a guy from the gas station who could get that done" "Foxboro high school gets that right all fall".  But what players will "take" and be motivated by from a GOAT coach wearing 6 Superbowl rings does not necessarily have the same "cachet" coming from Belichick's former LB coach and his 24-25 record.

 

Harrison Phillips commented on Frazier's sly layered sense of humor and little digs, but noted that when it's serious coaching, he's all "growth mindset": "this is our standard, how can we get you there?"

 

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

Right, that’s fine. 
 

But telling a guy that you would have drafted somebody else if you knew he was going to suck, is really bad people skills. 
 

Being a total grass hole to somebody just because they aren’t good at their job isn’t really ok. And 99% of the time doesn’t make them better at their job….which is what Flores was paid

to do. Make Tua better at his job. 
 

 

The next coach off the Belichick tree that has been known for people skills with their players will be the first.

 

Literally all of them suck in that regard...

 

O'Brien, McDaniels, Patricia, Flores, etc...maybe Crennel but he just sucked as a head coach so it didn't matter much.

 

The problem is they all try to be Belichick but haven't laid the foundation that he has to get players to buy in. Also Belichick can be a jack ass but he does enough for his players that they know he at least cares about them and has a human component to him...these coaches seem to miss that small 5% sliver of humanity that allows him to be an a-hole for the 95% of the time.

 

In direct opposition to coaches off the Reid tree who players mostly rave about and love and respect.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Big Turk

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, loyal2dagame said:

Are you expected to be one of the top 32 people in the world doing your job? 

I know I'm not. I good with being #33 😉

 

"Mr. Irrelevant" 

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In the world? No. Maybe in Britain though 😉

 

Oh how far Britain has fallen. Once the world revolved around the British Empire and now they are known as "football" country with bad cooking.

[Chicken Boo]

5 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

I believe Tua at a press conference (I would really have to dig for it) made a comment along the lines of I dont need to do anything outside of what’s asked of me.. I thought at the time what a weird comment…

 

 

You sure he didn't just mean that he would simply play within himself and not try to do too much, to the detriment of the team?

[purple haze]

6 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

A day off is a day off, otherwise it would be called work.

True.  But if you aren’t as good as you need to be putting in extra work would make sense; particularly at the QB position.  That guy sets the tone for the team.  If he’s not that organization has the wrong guy.

[Big Turk]

8 hours ago, loyal2dagame said:

Are you expected to be one of the top 32 people in the world doing your job? 

I know I'm not. I good with being #33 😉

 

I mean backup QB is where it's at for longevity and money...Chase Daniels has made a ridiculous amount of money as a backup QB that has only 261 attempts over 13 years...dude is closing in on $40 million to hold clipboards and be scout team in practice...dude has made $153,000 per pass attempt. Great money if you can get it.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Big Turk

[Punching Bag]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The next coach off the Belichick tree that has been known for people skills with their players will be the first.

 

Literally all of them suck in that regard...

 

O'Brien, McDaniels, Patricia, Flores, etc...maybe Crennel but he just sucked as a head coach so it didn't matter much.

 

In direct opposition to coaches off the Reid tree who players mostly rave about and love and respect.

 

Brian Daboll comes from the Billicheat tree right?  He was first coach to hire him.

 

Brian Daboll needs to take a page out of his book and get him listed as a minority -  he is Canadian.