Questions Surrounding a New Stadium in OP .

[Jrb1979]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's going to be 60,000 capacity stadium 

 

Which seems to fit perfectly with how many come weekly

 

Build it for increased noise and our 60,000 will sound like lunatics

That's at the current cheap ticket price. What happens when PSLs and higher ticket prices come into play? I'm not so sure they will fill the place when that happens. 

[Chicharito]

We need a dome our quarter billion dollar quarterback can’t handle wny elements !

[T master]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:57 PM, Augie said:

 

My first question would be how many more threads will be started on this very same topic. 

 

If you will show me which post that there was asking the same question as mine i will be happy to delete it I knew there were other posts about a new stadium but i didn't see the one asking if they would use some of the equipment from this stadium in the new one .

 

To answer your question i'd say probably at least 4 more ...

[cba fan]

On 1/8/2022 at 10:56 PM, purple haze said:

Outdoorsman survivalist?  Hardly.   I’m just a football fan who knows the roots of the game are outdoors and the weather at game time is the weather at game time.  

Those of you with a preference for moderate conditions should watch at home because that’s the experience you seem to want.   Indoors and perfect.  Nothing wrong with that.  I get it.  Other people will go the game.

football was never invented or intended to be played in winter. They invented basketball for winter play.

Football was always a late summer and fall game that ended by Thanksgiving like High Schools do now. College also over by end of Nov..  All or most bowl and playoff games are in domes or in south/far west in good weather.

 

Only the pro game development and their desire to make more money did the schedules then push into winter.

[purple haze]

37 minutes ago, cba fan said:

football was never invented or intended to be played in winter. They invented basketball for winter play.

Football was always a late summer and fall game that ended by Thanksgiving like High Schools do now. College also over by end of Nov..  All or most bowl and playoff games are in domes or in south/far west in good weather.

 

Only the pro game development and their desire to make more money did the schedules then push into winter.

That’s all well and good.  It’s still an outdoor game.  And has always been that.  NFL extended the season, but the pros get paid to play.  College players didn’t.  The bowl games were about more than the actual game.  They were vacations for players/coaches families as well.  That’s not the case in the pros.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, purple haze said:

That’s all well and good.  It’s still an outdoor game.  And has always been that.  NFL extended the season, but the pros get paid to play.  College players didn’t.  The bowl games were about more than the actual game.  They were vacations for players/coaches families as well.  That’s not the case in the pros.

 

 

And they were always played in warm weather locations.  And it's fine to say football is an outdoor game as long as you acknowledge that until the NFL came along, they didn't play those outdoor games past November. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[purple haze]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And they were always played in warm weather locations.  And it's fine to say football is an outdoor game as long as you acknowledge that until the NFL came along, they didn't play those outdoor games past November. 

The NFL didn’t reward players/coaches families like colleges were doing.  Of course they would be in places where they could get out and do things.   There also weren’t many bowl games at one time so the rewards went to relatively few as opposed to today.

 

Yes, the NFL has pushed the season forward.  But come on, they’ve played games past November since, at least, the 1930s.  And many of those championship games were played in cold weather.  Playing NFL games in the bitter cold isn’t close to being a new thing. 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

28 minutes ago, purple haze said:

The NFL didn’t reward players/coaches families like colleges were doing.  Of course they would be in places where they could get out and do things.   There also weren’t many bowl games at one time so the rewards went to relatively few as opposed to today.

 

Yes, the NFL has pushed the season forward.  But come on, they’ve played games past November since, at least, the 1930s.  And many of those championship games were played in cold weather.  Playing NFL games in the bitter cold isn’t close to being a new thing. 

 

 

But the debate here is weather football was meant to be played in the dead of winter. Originally it wasn't. It took the pro game and it's pursuit of the mighty $$$ to make it happen. So it's definitely played in the ice and cold, but wasn't necessarily mean to be played in that.

[Steptide]

I have a legit question. They say adding a roof to the stadium would be another 300 million dollars (or more). Syracuse just recently renovated the carrier dome and replaced the roof and did all of it for 118 million. Where's the 300 million coming from for buffalo? 

[ColoradoBills]

Football weather when I was a kid (old AFL days) was a cool crisp autumn day.

 

Living in Colorado I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think an in depth "psychoanalysis" needs to be done between domer's" and

open-airer's for those WNYers still on the fence.

[K-9]

I don’t think Walter Camp ever specified what weather the game of football was meant to be played in. 

[WhoTom]

16 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I have a legit question. They say adding a roof to the stadium would be another 300 million dollars (or more). Syracuse just recently renovated the carrier dome and replaced the roof and did all of it for 118 million. Where's the 300 million coming from for buffalo? 

 

The Carrier Dome's capacity is about 50k, vs 65k for the proposed stadium. The dome was also renovated before Covid and the ensuing higher construction costs.

 

 

 

[Steptide]

2 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

The Carrier Dome's capacity is about 50k, vs 65k for the proposed stadium. The dome was also renovated before Covid and the ensuing higher construction costs.

 

 

 

15 thousand fans and covid is a difference of 200 million? I find that hard to believe. Plus the carrier dome did ALL their renovations for 118 million, not just the roof 

[SoCal Deek]

25 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I have a legit question. They say adding a roof to the stadium would be another 300 million dollars (or more). Syracuse just recently renovated the carrier dome and replaced the roof and did all of it for 118 million. Where's the 300 million coming from for buffalo? 

It's an excellent question but I think the dollar figure sounds about right....although probably a little inflated. With that said, the stadium project budget is a balancing act of many variables. I believe WNY fans would appreciate the roof way more than they would some of the other amenities that other NFL venues cite these days. Does Buffalo need a ton of luxury boxes? Probably not. How about a massive jumbotron video display? Probably not. How about expensive food venues and restaurants/clubs? Again, probably not. What Bills fans really want is a parking lot to party in (consuming their own food and drink) both before and after the game and an enclosed venue where they can enjoy the game shielded from the elements for the three hours they're in their reasonably priced seats.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Steptide said:

15 thousand fans and covid is a difference of 200 million? I find that hard to believe. Plus the carrier dome did ALL their renovations for 118 million, not just the roof 

The added cost to cover the new stadium is mostly from the sheer amount of additional area to be covered. Even though it will have some 15k-20k fewer seats than the original Rich Stadium, the footprint will be larger to accommodate bigger seats, much wider concourses, bigger suites, etc. It will simply require a much bigger roof than the Carrier dome.

[TheFunPolice]

2 hours ago, cba fan said:

football was never invented or intended to be played in winter. They invented basketball for winter play.

Football was always a late summer and fall game that ended by Thanksgiving like High Schools do now. College also over by end of Nov..  All or most bowl and playoff games are in domes or in south/far west in good weather.

 

Only the pro game development and their desire to make more money did the schedules then push into winter.

 

The NFL championship game was played the last few days of December going back to the late 1950's

 

"the Greatest game ever played" NFL Championship game between the Giants and Colts was played on December 28, 1958. 

 

The "Ice Bowl" was played December 31 and it was -13 degrees in Green Bay. 

 

Not as late as games are now, but certainly not fall weather. 

 

So for the past 65+years winter weather has been a part of pro football. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, K-9 said:

The added cost to cover the new stadium is mostly from the sheer amount of additional area to be covered. Even though it will have some 15k-20k fewer seats than the original Rich Stadium, the footprint will be larger to accommodate bigger seats, much wider concourses, bigger suites, etc. It will simply require a much bigger roof than the Carrier dome.

 

Building a roof that only hangs over the stands is just as tricky as building a complete roof. Maybe more so. It's not the square footage of the cover, it's how you hold it up and what stresses it has to deal with.

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Building a roof that only hangs over the stands is just as tricky as building a complete roof. Maybe more so. It's not the square footage of the cover, it's how you hold it up and what stresses it has to deal with.

 

Makes sense, because the longer the overhang the more pressure is put on the supports, since they're only supported on one side

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Makes sense, because the longer the overhang the more pressure is put on the supports, since they're only supported on one side

 

Not to mention how a partial overhang deals with a stiff wind that might get under it.

[Since1981]

HS Sectional champs Nov 7

NFL 1960 champ Dec 26

SB I Jan 15

SB XXV Jan 27

SB LVI Feb 13

 

NFL has crept the season…Playing and watching football romantically on a crisp October day is NOT the same as 0F or windstorms or monsoons. 
 

the dates above are facts, not an opinion. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Since1981

[Wacka]

And the snow weight. Remember what happened in Minn.

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Not to mention how a partial overhang deals with a stiff wind that might get under it.

You guys are alright!  I'll need to bring you into my architectural practice.  Yes, a deep overhang has to resist what are called 'overturn' forces, which means it needs a significant foundation to counteract those forces.  It's done all the time but generally requires deeper roof members and larger foundations.

[WhoTom]

32 minutes ago, Steptide said:

15 thousand fans and covid is a difference of 200 million? I find that hard to believe. Plus the carrier dome did ALL their renovations for 118 million, not just the roof 

 

I agree, it seems pretty high. I'm just speculating about the reason. And from what I've read, the roof was the biggest chunk of the CD reno, so most of that $118M went to the roof. So that, along with the previously cited factors, accounts for most of the difference.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You guys are alright!  I'll need to bring you into my architectural practice.  Yes, a deep overhang has to resist what are called 'overturn' forces, which means it needs a significant foundation to counteract those forces.  It's done all the time but generally requires deeper roof members and larger foundations.

So would you say a full roof is lesser, more than or equal to an overhang?

[K-9]

57 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Building a roof that only hangs over the stands is just as tricky as building a complete roof. Maybe more so. It's not the square footage of the cover, it's how you hold it up and what stresses it has to deal with.

Who said anything about a partial roof? I merely explained why it will take much more raw material (cost) to cover the new stadium than either of the smaller Carrier Dome or Highmark areas. 

 

I’d much rather have a dome as well. These 62 year old bones have seen enough days on that field when the relentless cold winds blow. 

[Victory Formation]

On 1/9/2022 at 11:22 PM, Jrb1979 said:

That's all well and good with what the ticket prices are today. Will the stadium be full when the new stadium comes and tickets are much higher in price? There is no way they stay in the bottom quarter of teams in terms of ticket price. The days of tickets costing less then $100 are over. 

The decrease in stadium capacity will automatically increase the ticket prices due to supply and demand. Inflation and stadium prices will factor in as well. All in all, the Bills should have no problem filling a 60,000 seat stadium, increased prices or not.

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Not to mention how a partial overhang deals with a stiff wind that might get under it.

Remember the Cowboy stadium that had the trusses from side to side.

[WotAGuy]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Not to mention how a partial overhang deals with a stiff wind that might get under it.

Miami’s stadium roof needs to withstand hurricane force winds. I think they have it figured out. 

[ehfeuh57]

54 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Miami’s stadium roof needs to withstand hurricane force winds. I think they have it figured out. 

 

This is a case for no dome

[Baba Booey]

Look at Ford Field and Lucas Oil Stadiums, these are great stadiums with roofs! Why build a billion dollar stadium that can’t be used for events all year long. I’m for a roofed stadium. If that makes me less of a fan cause I don’t want to freeze my giblets off, so be it. 

[mjd1001]

29 minutes ago, Baba Booey said:

Look at Ford Field and Lucas Oil Stadiums, these are great stadiums with roofs! Why build a billion dollar stadium that can’t be used for events all year long. I’m for a roofed stadium. If that makes me less of a fan cause I don’t want to freeze my giblets off, so be it. 

This is the topic that keeps on giving.

A few others have said something that I agree with, and it best describes my support for dome/indoor/good weather games.   The game is good enough, and complex enough by itself that it doesn't need another variable (weather) added to it....which in most cases that weather takes away from the pure-ness of the game and the pure, high end athleticism we all want to watch.   

 

The game has enough strategy in it, enough one and one battles, enough teamwork, enough strategy.....adding bad weather into the mix adds one more variable but often takes away MORE than one variable of the things that make football a great game.  Bad weather, as we have seen, and take away MANY different aspects of the game and limit what the players and coaches can do effectively. If you love the game, and you love all that is football, why do you want a 'less pure' game where weather can take away a lot of that? I don't. 

Those who say football was meant to be played in bad weather, that is just a 'tough guy' way of saying they want less of a pure game.

[SoCal Deek]

15 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So would you say a full roof is lesser, more than or equal to an overhang?

A full roof would be equal to or less than the cost of the full overhang structure many have in mind here. 

[KDIGGZ]

I'm definitely going to buy one of the old stadium seats and put it in my living room and have my wife kick it from behind so I can simulate being at the game

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Baba Booey said:

Look at Ford Field and Lucas Oil Stadiums, these are great stadiums with roofs! Why build a billion dollar stadium that can’t be used for events all year long. I’m for a roofed stadium. If that makes me less of a fan cause I don’t want to freeze my giblets off, so be it. 

Listen if you want a dome because you don't want to embrace the elements just say it

 

Don't make it about being used for events all year because that's not happening... Jerry world the biggest and best dome in the world... 

 

Has 7 events planned for all of 2022... There aren't a lot of stadium events going on around the country... 

 

And there's not going to be at one in Buffalo...

 

It's a football stadium it should be built for the best football

[Baba Booey]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Listen if you want a dome because you don't want to embrace the elements just say it

 

Don't make it about being used for events all year because that's not happening... Jerry world the biggest and best dome in the world... 

 

Has 7 events planned for all of 2022... There aren't a lot of stadium events going on around the country... 

 

And there's not going to be at one in Buffalo...

 

It's a football stadium it should be built for the best football

And as stated by a previous poster, you get the “best football” when playing where the elements aren’t a factor!!! Answer me this, why is the Super Bowl played down south or in a stadium with a roof? One was in New Jersey and they got lucky that it got through ok!!

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Baba Booey said:

And as stated by a previous poster, you get the “best football” when playing where the elements aren’t a factor!!! Answer me this, why is the Super Bowl played down south or in a stadium with a roof? One was in New Jersey and they got lucky that it got through ok!!

Riddle me this.. 

 

The Buffalo Bills are 11 and 1 at home in the playoffs at the Ralph .. which obviously takes place in less than ideal conditions 

 

When we had Jack Kemp, Kelly, Allen, the one advantage they have over every quarterback coming to the Ralph..  is they can throw in weather that others can't

 

The only fact of the matter.. is a dome we'll give the opposing quarterback the chance to play his best game... A lot of quarterbacks in the NFL history have came into perfect conditions in a dome and slung the football all over the field

 

That's not happening in Winter conditions at the Ralph.. it's not about making you better it's about making the other team worse

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

I'm definitely going to buy one of the old stadium seats and put it in my living room and have my wife kick it from behind so I can simulate being at the game

Will you also get Beer poured over you ?   Go Bills !

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Baba Booey said:

And as stated by a previous poster, you get the “best football” when playing where the elements aren’t a factor!!! Answer me this, why is the Super Bowl played down south or in a stadium with a roof? One was in New Jersey and they got lucky that it got through ok!!

I can guarantee you the Super Bowl isn't played in warm weather or domes to get "good football" or whatever you're implying.  It's because the corporate/NFL elite who actually attend that game want to do it somewhere warm and nice in winter.  

 

Period.

 

Why do corporations across America set up "winter meetings" on a golf course in FL?  

Same reason.

 

 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

I can guarantee you the Super Bowl isn't played in warm weather or domes to get "good football" or whatever you're implying.  It's because the corporate/NFL elite who actually attend that game want to do it somewhere warm and nice in winter.  

 

Period.

 

Why do corporations across America set up "winter meetings" on a golf course in FL?  

Same reason.

 

 

 

 

Pretty much. But, there are a bunch of reasons. They've had it in New York and San Fransisco recently too. Any big metro area is fine.

 

They usually do want to show off new stadiums in the SB, but I still doubt Buffalo would get one. They're not going to risk playing the game under a blizzard. Any game prior to that is fine.

[cba fan]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:57 PM, Steptide said:

I have a legit question. They say adding a roof to the stadium would be another 300 million dollars (or more). Syracuse just recently renovated the carrier dome and replaced the roof and did all of it for 118 million. Where's the 300 million coming from for buffalo? 

Carrier dome was engineered to hold a roof. Adding a replacement did not need much new structural support.

For example Highmark is an open air design and the top footprint is very wide and long and whole stadium is laid back as it does not need to support a roof. 

Domes have higher taller grade so roof is manageable for cost and engineering safety.

 

Study shows new Bills stadium could be engineered to hold a roof in the future by building it with support for the roof. Study says this would be about 118 million.(ironic they list same number as Carrier new roof cost if this is true) And would likely change the configuration making it taller, making supports sunk as needed for future weight support etc etc.......

More cost effective to do the roof now but Owners, State, and County, have already decided it is open air.

 

Even though all polls show 70 to 85% of fans want a Dome the owners and state keep saying fans want open air. Weird. Wrong statement. And depending on your opinion, dumb.

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Riddle me this.. 

 

The Buffalo Bills are 11 and 1 at home in the playoffs at the Ralph .. which obviously takes place in less than ideal conditions 

 

When we had Jack Kemp, Kelly, Allen, the one advantage they have over every quarterback coming to the Ralph..  is they can throw in weather that others can't

 

The only fact of the matter.. is a dome we'll give the opposing quarterback the chance to play his best game... A lot of quarterbacks in the NFL history have came into perfect conditions in a dome and slung the football all over the field

 

That's not happening in Winter conditions at the Ralph.. it's not about making you better it's about making the other team worse

Bills roll with passing O that Allen is not good in when going against the win. Bills have best chance when Allen is at his best, which is in good weather.

Edited January 15, 2022 by cba fan