Not News - This roster just isn't good enough.

[hondo in seattle]

Back in March, I started a topic: "I'm Not Sure We Will Repeat as AFCE Champs"

 

I was concerned about a few things including our poor OL and lack of a running attack.  And while a few brave souls agreed with me, I was assaulted by the mob.  My football wisdom was doubted.  My intellect insulted.  My manhood questioned.  Worst of all, I even had my Bills Mafia membership card revoked!

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/231992-not-sure-we-will-repeat-as-afce-champs/

 

Yet today I read that the suicide hotline in Buffalo is experiencing a spike in calls while fans want McDermott, Daboll, and every other Bills coach drawn and quartered - and then fired.   

 

I hated watching the Pats beat us last night but I'm not pulling my hair out.  I never shared the Super Bowl expectations of my Mafia brothers and sisters (if I can still claim a familial relationship after being expelled from the club).  I just never believed this roster was good enough.

 

And, look, I'm not knocking Beane.  Today's roster is better than the one he inherited.  But he - clearly - has more work to do before the Bills can make a Super Bowl run.

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[RoyBatty is alive]

I agree.  Never properly addressed the O Line or for that matter front 7 on defense.   Now Morse is ancient and we have no real guards.   Going for RBs in the 3rd hasn't worked and with a weak O Line we have no run game.  Edmunds has great games and games like yesterday where Belichek can make him into a non-entity, as he has in the past.

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

Back in March, I started a topic: "I'm Not Sure We Will Repeat as AFCE Champs"

 

I was concerned about a few things including our poor OL and lack of a running attack.  And while a few brave souls agreed with me, I was assaulted by the mob.  My football wisdom was doubted.  My intellect insulted.  My manhood questioned.  Worst of all, I even had my Bills Mafia membership card revoked!

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/231992-not-sure-we-will-repeat-as-afce-champs/

 

Yet today I read that the suicide hotline in Buffalo is experiencing a spike in calls while fans want McDermott, Daboll, and every other Bills coach drawn and quartered - and then fired.   

 

I hated watching the Pats beat us last night but I'm not pulling my hair out.  I never shared the Super Bowl expectations of my Mafia brothers and sisters (if I can still claim a familial relationship after being expelled from the club).  I just never believed this roster was good enough.

 

And, look, I'm not knocking Beane.  Today's roster is better than the one he inherited.  But he - clearly - has more work to do before the Bills can make a Super Bowl run.

 

 

 

Knock him.  
 

Past success doesn’t allow free passes in the present.  I love Beane.  I don’t want him (or McD) fired.  Yet his decisions along the DL, OL and RB position during his tenure have kept us from winning a SB (last year and looks worse this year).

 

He chose this IOL. They can’t open any holes in the run game.  He chose the RBs that aren’t decisive (and talented) enough to be productive behind this OL.  He paid the DL big bucks to be an average DL (which led to our OL being somewhat neglected this offseason).

 

he deserves criticism.  He doesn’t deserve to be fired.  

Edited December 7, 2021 by NewEra

[Back2Buff]

Anyone that wasn't delusional knew that running it back with the same roster was a huge mistake.

[muppy]

what we are all discussing today are the clear weaknesses on the teams roster...as the season has developed those needs have become glaring..last year the D line was the "glaring" need....today it is the OL and need for  a true stud RB........the fact the Bills have shown by their losses, the reasons for which you could say last night was weather partly......but the middle of our defense was an open gate for the Pats RB's, we got smacked in the mouth.

 

OUCH.

[Coach Tuesday]

Disagree.  Roster is top 5 in the league.  They are losing games to inferior rosters.

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Back in March, I started a topic: "I'm Not Sure We Will Repeat as AFCE Champs"

 

I was concerned about a few things including our poor OL and lack of a running attack.  And while a few brave souls agreed with me, I was assaulted by the mob.  My football wisdom was doubted.  My intellect insulted.  My manhood questioned.  Worst of all, I even had my Bills Mafia membership card revoked!

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/231992-not-sure-we-will-repeat-as-afce-champs/

 

Yet today I read that the suicide hotline in Buffalo is experiencing a spike in calls while fans want McDermott, Daboll, and every other Bills coach drawn and quartered - and then fired.   

 

I hated watching the Pats beat us last night but I'm not pulling my hair out.  I never shared the Super Bowl expectations of my Mafia brothers and sisters (if I can still claim a familial relationship after being expelled from the club).  I just never believed this roster was good enough.

 

And, look, I'm not knocking Beane.  Today's roster is better than the one he inherited.  But he - clearly - has more work to do before the Bills can make a Super Bowl run.

 

 

 

 

I've always been a Beane fan, but he absolutely deserves criticism for not addressing the trenches properly.

[gobills404]

This roster is objectively better than the one that went 13-3 and made it to the AFCCG. This team is just comically inconsistent, prone to getting punched in the mouth, and loves shooting itself in the foot. To me that falls squarely on coaching.

[TC in St. Louis]

The team is in a surly mood.  Plenty of talent here.  Can't wait till Sunday.  

 

If we make the dance, we'll be dancing.  Jerry Sullivan can go alone.  

[dorquemada]

3 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

This roster is objectively better than the one that went 13-3 and made it to the AFCCG. This team is just comically inconsistent, prone to getting punched in the mouth, and loves shooting itself in the foot. To me that falls squarely on coaching.

 

Objectively?

 

No, they are not.  If they were better, they would win more games, for that is how we grade how good a team/roster/coaching staff is

 

I'll add that I think that McD has lost the locker room.  This team has nothing like the cohesion of last year's, and his gameday management is objectively worse

[Talley56]

19 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Back in March, I started a topic: "I'm Not Sure We Will Repeat as AFCE Champs"

 

I was concerned about a few things including our poor OL and lack of a running attack.  And while a few brave souls agreed with me, I was assaulted by the mob.  My football wisdom was doubted.  My intellect insulted.  My manhood questioned.  Worst of all, I even had my Bills Mafia membership card revoked!

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/231992-not-sure-we-will-repeat-as-afce-champs/

 

Yet today I read that the suicide hotline in Buffalo is experiencing a spike in calls while fans want McDermott, Daboll, and every other Bills coach drawn and quartered - and then fired.   

 

I hated watching the Pats beat us last night but I'm not pulling my hair out.  I never shared the Super Bowl expectations of my Mafia brothers and sisters (if I can still claim a familial relationship after being expelled from the club).  I just never believed this roster was good enough.

 

And, look, I'm not knocking Beane.  Today's roster is better than the one he inherited.  But he - clearly - has more work to do before the Bills can make a Super Bowl run.

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking if you post something like this on any board of a team with any kind of potential you'd get similar responses.  For instance, if you went over to Dallas' board in late October suggesting they won't win the NFC East, you'd probably be ripped to shreds.  Now, that looks like a very real possibility.  Good on you for being willing to go against the grain.  I seem to recall, after our strong start in 2011, a post about our way of winning "not being sustainable" was unpopular only to sadly end up being correct.

 

[BillsFanSD]

3 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

This roster is objectively better than the one that went 13-3 and made it to the AFCCG. This team is just comically inconsistent, prone to getting punched in the mouth, and loves shooting itself in the foot. To me that falls squarely on coaching.

I agree.  

 

Last year, this offense was a totally one-dimensional pass-on-every-down show.  And it worked!  Because we have an all-pro QB who can paper over some problems with pass protection, and he's throwing to a collection of really good receivers.  Why hand the ball off to some guy who's going to get hit at the line of scrimmage and maybe fall forward for a yard or two when you can throw to 14 and 11? 

 

This year we're handing it off on second and long and pissing away red zone plays just to check an imaginary "did we run the ball enough?" box.  

 

And last year this team was mentally dialed in pretty much every week.  We lost some games here and there, but you never felt like they just showed up and expected their opponents to roll over for them.  That's been the story every single week this year except (not coincidentally) the KC game.  

 

Even stupid errors like all the pre-snap penalties ultimately come back to coaching.

 

Maybe a season like this was inevitable.  Maybe this team just needed to learn a hard lesson about what success in the NFL requires.  It's not like this would be the first roster to take a step backwards after a really good year only to get back on track the following season.  But yeah fundamentally this is still a SB-caliber roster.  This staff just didn't get the most out of them.

[BeastMaster]

I sure as hell had my doubts on both sides of the line.

 

I was sure they would at least draft a space eater on D, and I wanted an upgrade at LG.

 

I was ok with the drafting of Moss, and I still think our backs could do well if we were stronger up front. I have also not been a huge fan of the coach. I liked the culture he instilled, but his GameDay decisions have always been lacking to me.

 

My fears were never put to rest, and now they are coming to fruition. 

[stinky finger]

Too many inexcusable losses.

 

Some games, I think they felt they just needed to show up. I think we all knew that to repeat any momentum from last year, we'd have to dig deeper. I'm not seeing it. 

 

They don't have the fight.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

We don’t give ourselves a chance though by benching McKenzie, never using motion, jet sweeps, play action (without that gimmick RPO), no Josh Allen runs in the red zone, we keep putting Zack Moss on the field for some reason, and our Coaches can’t understand that Cole Beasley and Emmanuel Sanders are fading and instead it’s keep Davis snaps low and bench everyone else. 
 

Honestly, if Brown plays RT, our best chance is to just go 4-wide, 5-wide.

[Dr. Who]

12 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Disagree.  Roster is top 5 in the league.  They are losing games to inferior rosters.

Well, I think both can be true. Oline, rb, dline against the run are problems. And we are getting beat by less talented rosters.

They are taking advantage of our weaknesses and our fast track offense cannot compensate, particularly in bad weather games.

[Niagara Dude]

28 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Back in March, I started a topic: "I'm Not Sure We Will Repeat as AFCE Champs"

 

I was concerned about a few things including our poor OL and lack of a running attack.  And while a few brave souls agreed with me, I was assaulted by the mob.  My football wisdom was doubted.  My intellect insulted.  My manhood questioned.  Worst of all, I even had my Bills Mafia membership card revoked!

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/231992-not-sure-we-will-repeat-as-afce-champs/

 

Yet today I read that the suicide hotline in Buffalo is experiencing a spike in calls while fans want McDermott, Daboll, and every other Bills coach drawn and quartered - and then fired.   

 

I hated watching the Pats beat us last night but I'm not pulling my hair out.  I never shared the Super Bowl expectations of my Mafia brothers and sisters (if I can still claim a familial relationship after being expelled from the club).  I just never believed this roster was good enough.

 

And, look, I'm not knocking Beane.  Today's roster is better than the one he inherited.  But he - clearly - has more work to do before the Bills can make a Super Bowl run.

 

 

 

I spoke all season that Beanne did not do enough to improve this roster from last season.  The Bills have a grand total of 3 star level play makers in Allen/Diggs and White who is no gone for the season.  Too many players on this roster making very good money and not providing enough production.  Give the Pats credit they went out and signed difference makers in free agency and now are leading the division.  I think your going to see them eat some dead money this offseason in order to get rid of dead wood and add more top end talent. I was one of BEANNE's  least productive offseasons and were paying for it now

[gobills404]

13 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Objectively?

 

No, they are not.  If they were better, they would win more games, for that is how we grade how good a team/roster/coaching staff is

 

I'll add that I think that McD has lost the locker room.  This team has nothing like the cohesion of last year's, and his gameday management is objectively worse

Stop moving the goalposts the thread said the roster isn’t good enough not coaching staff. I literally blamed the coaching staff in the second half of my post. Please work on your reading and comprehension skills.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

If not now, then when? 

 

Having a top 5 QB on a rookie contract is a gigantic advantage for constructing a roster. 

 

If Beane can't build a superbowl contending roster while Josh has a 10mm cap hit - what makes you think he'll be able to build one in the future when Josh has a 40mm cap hit? 

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

26 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Disagree.  Roster is top 5 in the league.  They are losing games to inferior rosters.

 

The Jags game aside, I disagree.

 

Our offensive line is bad.  They rarely open holes for our backs.  They create no push on short yardage situations.  And too often Allen is trying to make plays while scrambling for his life.

 

And as good as Allen is, he doesn't excel at pre-snap reads which would be a great talent for a QB behind a porous line.  Sometimes he hangs onto the ball scanning for an open receiver.

 

And our defense is built to defend the pass.  We struggle against physical offensive lines and powerful RBs.

[freddyjj]

18 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Back in March, I started a topic: "I'm Not Sure We Will Repeat as AFCE Champs"

 

I was concerned about a few things including our poor OL and lack of a running attack.  And while a few brave souls agreed with me, I was assaulted by the mob.  My football wisdom was doubted.  My intellect insulted.  My manhood questioned.  Worst of all, I even had my Bills Mafia membership card revoked!

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/231992-not-sure-we-will-repeat-as-afce-champs/

 

Yet today I read that the suicide hotline in Buffalo is experiencing a spike in calls while fans want McDermott, Daboll, and every other Bills coach drawn and quartered - and then fired.   

 

I hated watching the Pats beat us last night but I'm not pulling my hair out.  I never shared the Super Bowl expectations of my Mafia brothers and sisters (if I can still claim a familial relationship after being expelled from the club).  I just never believed this roster was good enough.

 

And, look, I'm not knocking Beane.  Today's roster is better than the one he inherited.  But he - clearly - has more work to do before the Bills can make a Super Bowl run.

 

 

 

So went to bed last night and did a roster going forward listing for 2022 and, man, will there be changes in offseason.  The following reflects the need for better talent and some Cap Savings opportunity

Offense 10 new roster players needed

QB - Allen - Need 1 more

RB - Singletary, Taiwan, Gilliam - need 2 more

TE - Knox, Sweeney - need 1 more

WR - Diggs, Davis, Stevenson, Hodgson, need 2 more - Sanders, lil Dirty and Beasley gone

Oline - Dawkins, Morse, Brown, Williams, Bates, need 4 more - Ford, Boettger and Feliciano released.  Feliciano for Morse swap at C possible  if the Bills decide they need cap $$

 

ST's - no change to K, P, LS

 

Defense - need 8-9 new players.

DL - Groot, Basham, Epenesa, Oliver, Star - need 3-4 more.  Addison, Hughes, Butler, Philips, Obada gone

LB - Milano, Edmunds, Dotson, Smith, - 2 needed.  Klein and Matakevic gone

DBs- Hyde, Poyer, Johnson S, T Johnson, Wallace, Jackson, Treday - need 3 more 

 

So 18-19 new players is a 34-36% roster turnover - pretty typical these days with NFL teams balancing cap demands and need for better talent.  

 

[Evian]

I think the Bills and the Rams have the best rosters in the NFL. Both remind me of the Bucs from last year. One of these teams is going to get hot and win the Super Bowl. My money is on the Bills. I like the schedule down the road.  I can see them beating the Bucs and Panthers and going into New England and taking command of the AFC. 

[Success]

I'm not going to say we can't still make a SB run w/ this roster - because we can.

 

But it feels like we're still a year away.  The flaws are obvious, and I'm sure they'll get addressed - but we may fall short this year because of them.

 

[hondo in seattle]

31 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I've always been a Beane fan, but he absolutely deserves criticism for not addressing the trenches properly.

 

Okay... maybe I should knock Beane.  Many of us were concerned about the trenches during the offseason.  He should have been concerned, too.  Or maybe it's more precise to say he should have been more concerned - concerned enough to address it. 

 

I get that cap and draft resources are limited.  But it's very easy to see this as a Super Bowl team if we were more stout on the lines.   So why aren't we?

[stinky finger]

3 minutes ago, Evian said:

I think the Bills and the Rams have the best rosters in the NFL. Both remind me of the Bucs from last year. One of these teams is going to get hot and win the Super Bowl. My money is on the Bills. I like the schedule down the road.  I can see them beating the Bucs and Panthers and going into New England and taking command of the AFC. 

 

Buffalo does NOT have a better roster than Tampa.

6 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

So went to bed last night and did a roster going forward listing for 2022 and, man, will there be changes in offseason.  The following reflects the need for better talent and some Cap Savings opportunity

Offense 10 new roster players needed

QB - Allen - Need 1 more

RB - Singletary, Taiwan, Gilliam - need 2 more

TE - Knox, Sweeney - need 1 more

WR - Diggs, Davis, Stevenson, Hodgson, need 2 more - Sanders, lil Dirty and Beasley gone

Oline - Dawkins, Morse, Brown, Williams, Bates, need 4 more - Ford, Boettger and Feliciano released.  Feliciano for Morse swap at C possible  if the Bills decide they need cap $$

 

ST's - no change to K, P, LS

 

Defense - need 8-9 new players.

DL - Groot, Basham, Epenesa, Oliver, Star - need 3-4 more.  Addison, Hughes, Butler, Philips, Obada gone

LB - Milano, Edmunds, Dotson, Smith, - 2 needed.  Klein and Matakevic gone

DBs- Hyde, Poyer, Johnson S, T Johnson, Wallace, Jackson, Treday - need 3 more 

 

So 18-19 new players is a 34-36% roster turnover - pretty typical these days with NFL teams balancing cap demands and need for better talent.  

 

 

I agree with most of this.

 

Edmunds is where might differ.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Roster needs some variety.

 

• All the RB are tiny by NFL standards. Bug meet windshield sort of running game. We typically don't even try to use a running game, but the Patriots just showed the Bills how to win in the elements in Buffalo with jumbo sets, a fullback, ends that can seal, and a rotation of different backs with different dimensions to their games.
• Outside Kumerow, the WR group looks like clones to me.
• Also the DL is undersized and wasn't able to stand up against a power running game. Some of those big plays the Patriots got were about lack of execution by Frazier's group though. That was a much different game if the long TD run in the 1st quarter had been stopped.

 

PS: The Patriots rebound and return to anointed status is bad for the NFL. Not everyone wants to see the Patriots win the next 10 Lombardi trophies.

 

[Evian]

1 minute ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Buffalo does NOT have a better roster than Tampa.

 

The Bucs have a huge weakness. Their secondary is terrible. The Bills will put up 40 on them. 

[Pete]

40 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Disagree.  Roster is top 5 in the league.  They are losing games to inferior rosters.

I agree.  But our OLine is not championship quality- nowhere close.  If you can't block, you can't run or pass.  We must protect Josh!

[78thealltimegreat]

Been advocating since the last day of last year that I don’t like the RBs and TEs. So I hear ya and these things have come back to bite us time and time again. Beane just decided to throw more darts at the pass rush…when you have a QB like Josh you keep getting him weapons they didn’t 

[freddyjj]

4 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Buffalo does NOT have a better roster than Tampa.

 

I agree with most of this.

 

Edmunds is where might differ.

$12.5mm already committed via 5th year option and would be dead cap so assume we keep.  

[Pete]

we have this young stud at QB, and we never had a plan to protect Josh.  Very myopic IMO.  It reminds me a little of Archie Manning- all the talent in the world, but he ran for his life most every play.

[stinky finger]

Just now, Evian said:

 

The Bucs have a huge weakness. Their secondary is terrible. The Bills will put up 40 on them. 

 

Their front 7 will give JA fits. Our OL stands to get embarrassed this weekend. 

 

 

1 minute ago, freddyjj said:

$12.5mm already committed via 5th year option and would be dead cap so assume we keep.  

 

Right - gotcha.

 

I'm looking further down the road.

[HamptonBillsfan]

The roster is definitely good enough, but the reason we lose games is that we think Josh can do it all. Good NFL defenses can neutralize QB driven offenses if they are predictable. There was no reason not to score on one of the 2 long 4th qtr drives. If you have a good red zone play caller, you could at least get two chip shot FGs. It didn't take a genius to know they were taking away the run and Josh's RPOs. This is a bottom line league. Either you can score TDs from the red zone or you need a new OC.

[freddyjj]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

we have this young stud at QB, and we never had a plan to protect Josh.  Very myopic IMO.  It reminds me a little of Archie Manning- all the talent in the world, but he ran for his life most every play.

Not sure it's that bad.  Loved Archie but surprised he only won 35 of 140 starts in his career and only made 2 Pro Bowls.  Never made the playoffs either as was only bright light on some bad teams in NOLA, HOU and MInny.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

In a salary cap world, having the perfect roster is darn near impossible, but being imperfect on both lines of scrimmage is more often than not a fatal flaw. 

[JoshAllin]

This roster is worlds better than the chargers, bengals, raiders, kc and ravens. The other top teams they match up well with. Just a lot of typical whinning after a loss

[No_Matter_What]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

Back in March, I started a topic: "I'm Not Sure We Will Repeat as AFCE Champs"

Well why don't we at least wait until regular season to find out who actually won AFCE?

[dorquemada]

26 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

In a salary cap world, having the perfect roster is darn near impossible, but being imperfect on both lines of scrimmage is more often than not a fatal flaw. 

 

To that point, we're incredibly over-invested on our DL, for just bad results.  With 10 guys in the box we couldnt stop the run.  That's just bad, and embarrassing.  it's the GM falling in love with an idea even as it's proven wrong over and over in practice.  Similar to what was said about Communism, "DL rotation cannot fail, it can only be failed"

[Gisele]

35 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

$12.5mm already committed via 5th year option and would be dead cap so assume we keep.  

He's tradeable but I'd be fine keeping him just to use on passing downs to rush the passer.  His days as our middle need to be over.

[FilthyBeast]

I've asked this question many times and have been flamed for it, but outside of Allen and Diggs, who exactly has Beane drafted or signed that is a true impact player? Guys who can single handedly make game changing plays to win massive high stakes games like last night?

 

When you comb through his drafts and poor FA deals (mostly former Carolina Panthers) you just seem a bunch of role players and solid back up types. Yes guys like Oliver and Knox have shown flashes but they continue to come up small in the biggest games.

 

Yes some will argue that finding Allen is all that matters (assuming he truly is a franchise QB) but for a guy that seems to value his draft picks so much you'd think he was churning out all pros and that's simply not the reality no matter how many fans insist he's some sort of stud GM in this league.