11/7/21 Bills @ Jaguars Postgame Thread

[Doc Brown]

4 minutes ago, tbonehawaii said:

Umm this was the worst officiated game I’ve ever seen. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game or more Offside and fall starts or simply ignored.  And how was that last pass to Diggs not PI?

Did you watch the '98 Bills Pats game?

[Joe Ferguson]

The team didn't listen to McDermott for staying hungry and humble. They are still cocky & undisciplined. Allen had bad Karma when he waved his hands bye-bye to the Dolphins last week. This will be a painful lesson to Josh and I hope he learned from this.

[Wyobills89]

Bucs lost 3 of 4 in November last year. We have a couple more games to go before I get to worried. Hope the coaching can pick up a bit. I do feel Brian is a bit preoccupied ( as I would be too losing both people who raised you). 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

So.....we greeting them at the airport?

 

With bagheads??

[GETTOTHE50]

McD sounds like he is out of answers.

[Buddo]

2 hours ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

With bagheads??

Tar and feathers.

 

[billsfan714]

Some things are starting to become a clear problem.   The OL is a mess and they are poorly coached.   The team as a whole lacks physicality and will get over powered by stronger teams.    The runningbacks are a unique combination of being small and slow.  The DL has nobody who gets consistent pressure.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, BananaB said:

Agree the line gotta improve, but so does the RBs. If your switching guys around to help the run game giving other RBs an opportunity to carry the ball also has to be an option. I don’t believe Motor or Moss have done anything to secure their rolls. Motor looked solid his rookie year as a change of pace back for Gore, but has not proved anything since in my opinion.  I don’t know. I wasn’t comfortable heading into the season with these guys and I’m super frustrated watching them now. Give Williams a shot, just do something to switch something up. 
 

You can add predictable play calling to the list of what is holding this team back. On that first drive we passed the ball all the way to the 4 yard line and they trot Moss out on the field, I’m sure every Bills fan knew what play was gonna be called, hard to believe the Jags didn’t. 
 

It’s just bad. I agree a lot of it’s the line but the RBs hold some blame as well. And if you keep making changes with the line and the RBs are showing no progress it’s time to start switching the backs.  This ***** ain’t new, we have struggled with the run game since last year. Maybe it’s the rotation, maybe giving one guy the lead back roll and try to get one of them in better rhythm.  Just do something 

 

Im sure the Jags have an idea but I have watched that play several times.  Here are my thoughts on it.

 

1. Dawkins took the inside rusher and tried to push him further inside. That left the end unblocked.  Dawkins also failed on the guy he was trying to block and he was in the backfield before the hand off was even complete.  

 

2. Nobody created a hole.  The way they were blocking it didn't even look like they were trying to create a hole.

 

3. Left end being unblocked had that gap covered. No escape route for Moss there.  Dawkins failing on the inside guy and he was on top of Moss at the hand off.

 

4. Moss actually had that guy beat somehow but had nowhere to go.  Couldn't duke outside due to left end just standing there waiting for him. So he tried to cut back inside where there was a wall with no cracks.  Was then tackled by the guy that was there on hand off that he had initially beat.

 

5. Both Diggs and Beasley didn't even try to sell that it could be a RPO.  They literally stood there watching the RB from the snap on.  Beasley moved sideways for about a second or so but that was it.  Diggs just stood there looking.

 

6. Im sorry this screen grab is not the best.  The site has very small upload limits and makes it difficult to upload a picture at all.  I don't use a service online so I cant just post a link to my own pictures.  I love this site but in this day and age a 200 kb upload limit is pretty sad.  

 

Im not even sure what this blocking scheme is for a run play.  Its almost as if they aren't even trying to create a running lane.  Its just a mess.  The hand off isn't even complete yet and the line is completely embarrassed.

 

 

.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Scott7975

[newcam2012]

21 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

Some things are starting to become a clear problem.   The OL is a mess and they are poorly coached.   The team as a whole lacks physicality and will get over powered by stronger teams.    The runningbacks are a unique combination of being small and slow.  The DL has nobody who gets consistent pressure.

Sadly and with regret I agree. 

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

My concern is with the offense and not the defense.  BUT, did the Bills make a strategic error in addressing their perceived defensive short comings at the expense of the offense? Because it was the offense that got us to the Championship game last season.  In the off season we focused on the D and it's playing great though I wouldn't say at a Super Bowl level - the let down against TN was a red flag for me.

 

So while we can defenselessly dominate weak to average offenses we haven't shown we can dominate good to great offense.

 

And by ignoring RB, the O-line and TE did we miss an opportunity to create an elite offense? We caught a break with Knox improving as much as he did so standing pat at TE worked out but it clearly hasn't worked out for the O-line and RB's.

 

 

 

I agree with you.  Here's the thing though.  We only rush 4 most of the time.  What team dominates only rushing 4 guys?  Unless of course you are facing an o line like the Bills.  It's like they use this formula to always keep good guys fresh which makes sense to a certain extent.  Being fresh isn't really going to come into play until the 4th quarter.  Its like the anti Henry beats a defense down thing.  

 

Nobody beats down this d line because they have a solid rotation... but who cares?  The problem is they aren't rushing the passer either.  Most 4 man fronts don't unless maybe they have at least 1 elite guy.  We don't.  We have a bunch of good guys and some average guys.  It works when the coverage holds.  Thats about it.

 

Saying that, I agree with everything you are saying.  Im not concerned about the defense either.  The offense is going to win the football games.  Our D has improved enough from last year but our O is figured out and there is no repairing it unless get improvement in the trenches.

 

For all the talk of Sugar high Josh or Hero Ball Josh.... that's the reason we even have a chance to win a game.  A game like today he had to be that way just to survive.  He just didn't pull off some of the miracle plays he usually does.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

Give me one reason why Singletary isn't a decent back.  He works like any RB would here.  Give him carries and he produces.  Give him 6 carries a game and the production is going to be limited.  Even with a terrible line the guy pops off good runs often enough that with more than a handful of carries and chances are he'll break you off some good runs. The less we run the ball the worse the offense looks.

 

I agree with this.  Singletary has been the better back every week and has gotten the least touches every week.  Its tough though.  The way our line blocks and the way the plays are called it puts us behind the sticks so its hard to stick with it.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

I was stunned by the general ho-hum reaction to the Titans loss as well. Everybody made excuses for it because they naturally thought there was 1 or 2 that would get away, so whatever right, we're elite and in the driver's seat. People acted almost as if we needed to get that one out of the way, when in reality we should have just trusted our elite kicker. Now we're acting like they're the superior team, despite having no Derrick Henry and their #1 TE being 7th round pick Geoff Swaim. How quickly things change in a few weeks.

 

That was an awful loss and we've looked wrong since then. 

 

Honestly I think the Titans might be the best team in the AFC right now.  I was one that thought they were a good team but not great.  I think I was wrong about that and underestimated how good they really are.  They are playing some seriously good football.  Even without Henry they took it to the Rams.  Not because they have a star QB, although he is good, but because even without Henry they have a fundamentally sound physical football team.  As much as I hate it, maybe Vrabel really is a good football coach.

[CSBill]

Those last two minute were like a flashback to the Texans playoff game. A total team (offensive) effort in ugliness. Ugly! Ugly! Ugly!

[mannc]

19 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Honestly I think the Titans might be the best team in the AFC right now.  I was one that thought they were a good team but not great.  I think I was wrong about that and underestimated how good they really are.  They are playing some seriously good football.  Even without Henry they took it to the Rams.  Not because they have a star QB, although he is good, but because even without Henry they have a fundamentally sound physical football team.  As much as I hate it, maybe Vrabel really is a good football coach.

Imagine the Bills’ defense with Jeffrey Simmons in the middle instead of lil’ Ed Oliver…

[TBBills]

Supposedly this is all about a Manning curse. Anyone who goes on the manning cast of football ends up losing the next week.

 

[CSBill]

There are many questions about this team right now, but I'll throw out my top three:

1. Why does our o-line coach still have a job in Buffalo? I cannot identify one player who has gotten better under him.
2. Related, why not give Ryan Bates and Jamil Douglas a chance? Can it be any worse? ... both have quality starts in the NFL.
3. What does Stefon Diggs have to do for the Bills to start getting him the ball? .... Related, maybe stop trying to run deep routes when your QB is dealing with lineman in his face all game? How about some slants, short crossings patterns, quick-hitters????

[RichRiderBills]

10 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But who do we put in to run a "heavy" look?  A third string practice squad TE and an experimental FB?  And our RB's are not built to execute a heavy run package. They made the assumption that the O-line would at least be competent and that Allen and the WR's would carve people up.  The problem is that at best this year the O-line has been below average and today it was way below the NFL minimum for a functional unit.  It really was that bad.

 

 

 

 

 

Your not wrong here, but I still blame Daboll. He has got to set the offensive personal on this team w Beane....sticking with Moss and Singletary was a mistake imo, but the worse mistake is not having the TEs and guys to run heavy looks. It's arrogant square peg in round hole stuff, and it won't win consistently.

 

Man look how flexible the K gun was! There were several games where we looked totally different for conditions and tempo. That team was able to win so many different types of games.

Edited November 8, 2021 by RichRiderBills

[BearNorth]

17 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

Man look how flexible the K gun was! There were several games where we looked totally different for conditions and tempo. That team was able to win so many different types of games.

K Gun had Thurman Thomas, just saying, he was better than any RB since OJ.  Always had to account for Thurman.  Current Bills don't have a Thurman.

[Bob in STL]

15 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

What baffled me is not once did Josh challenge DBs with the deep ball. Refs were flag happy and easily could've called a couple DPI's.

No time to get deep.  The OL didn’t block, looked like they didn’t know who to block at times.  Jax was getting to Allen untouched.  Daboll had no answer.  No screens, no draws, no slants … 
 

Makes me wonder what is happening in practice and preparation.  

[davefan66]

Was driving home from Connecticut yesterday.  Listened to the radio broadcast on Bills app.

 

Not sure I want to watch this game.  But have to see with my own eyes what happened.

 

From what I heard, seems Josh was out of his mind on several plays because of pressure.  Didn’t think our Oline was that much of a problem, obviously I was wrong.  Surely worse without Mongo in there.

 

Problem is, there is no fix you can make now that fixes this problem.  No players available, can’t up and change scheme.  Firing the Oline coach may help, especially if he isn’t teaching the fundamentals of blocking.

 

If we don’t get a handle on this, quick, we will not be going deep in the playoffs or worse.

Edited November 8, 2021 by davefan66

[RochesterLifer]

I am watching Josh's postgame interview. The two things that jump out to me:

- He takes responsibility, total responsibility. I actually don't believe he deserves it for yesterday's performance, but good for him - standing with his team.

- This guy is heartfelt. We never have to (not that we have) wonder how much he cares.

We've got a good leader. On to New York.

[Bob in STL]

58 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

K Gun had Thurman Thomas, just saying, he was better than any RB since OJ.  Always had to account for Thurman.  Current Bills don't have a Thurman.

 

 

1990:   Will Wolford - Jim Richter - Kent Hull - John Davis - House Ballard 

 

Yesterday:  Dawkins  - Boettger - Morse - Ford - Williams. 
 

There is no comparison between the two lines and the 90’s OL back ups were also much better.  Even with Feliciano back at LG, Spencer Brown at RT, and Williams at RG there is no comparison.  

 

1990 KGun RBs :  Thurman Thomas, Kenny Davis, with FB’s Jamie Mueller and Carnell Garner

 

Yesterdays RBs :  Singletary, Moss, Taiwan, Gilliam or Brieda 

 

running back talent is not close.  Neither is versatility such as ability to catch down field and the ability to block.  Kenny Davis was far better than any back on the current roster.  None of them could touch Thomas or even deserves to be in the conversation.  

 

1990 TEs: McKeller, Metzellars, Rolle. 

Yesterday TE:  Sweeney, Q Morris, K Warring, (Knox injured)

 

1990 TEs we’re all multi faceted.  McKelkars was a multiple threat player.  Metzellars could block like an OT and catch passes.    With Knox out the current TE cast has no real contributions from anyone.  
 

The 2021 Bills are Josh Allen, some very good receivers, an excellent defense, and a good PK. They have a very questionable OL with no depth, no running game outside of Allen, and a below average punter.  
 

Our team defense in 2021 is better, especially the DBs. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Bob in STL

[BearNorth]

Butch Rolle on the goal line was amazing.  From 87-91 he caught 11 passes, 10 for TD's.

[BearNorth]

1 hour ago, Bob in STL said:

 

 

1990:   Will Wolford - Jim Richter - Kent Hull - John Davis - House Ballard 

 

Yesterday:  Dawkins  - Boettger - Morse - Ford - Williams. 
 

There is no comparison between the two lines and the 90’s OL back ups were also much better.  Even with Feliciano back at LG, Spencer Brown at RT, and Williams at RG there is no comparison.  

 

1990 KGun RBs :  Thurman Thomas, Kenny Davis, with FB’s Jamie Mueller and Carnell Garner

 

Yesterdays RBs :  Singletary, Moss, Taiwan, Gilliam or Brieda 

 

running back talent is not close.  Neither is versatility such as ability to catch down field and the ability to block.  Kenny Davis was far better than any back on the current roster.  None of them could touch Thomas or even deserves to be in the conversation.  

 

1990 TEs: McKeller, Metzellars, Rolle. 

Yesterday TE:  Sweeney, Q Morris, K Warring, (Knox injured)

 

1990 TEs we’re all multi faceted.  McKelkars was a multiple threat player.  Metzellars could block like an OT and catch passes.    With Knox out the current TE cast has no real contributions from anyone.  
 

The 2021 Bills are Josh Allen, some very good receivers, an excellent defense, and a good PK. They have a very questionable OL with no depth, no running game outside of Allen, and a below average punter.  
 

Our team defense in 2021 is better, especially the DBs. 

DB's might be better, but not seeing a Bruce Smith on the 2021 Bills team, also Milano & Edmunds < Bennett and Talley.

[Bob in STL]

8 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

DB's might be better, but not seeing a Bruce Smith on the 2021 Bills team, also Milano & Edmunds < Bennett and Talley.

Yes.  The overall team defense is hard to argue with though.  It’s a shame that they hold a team to 9 points on the road, despite 3 offensive turnovers, and we can’t win the game.  
 

The OL is the cause of many problems, it starts up front.  

[RichRiderBills]

2 hours ago, BearNorth said:

K Gun had Thurman Thomas, just saying, he was better than any RB since OJ.  Always had to account for Thurman.  Current Bills don't have a Thurman.

 

I would not disagree...but There were some games within that we could go back on, espc some games Thurman was hurt. 

 

We got great production from guys like Harmon, Davis, Holmes...etc..

 

K gun made studs out of guys like Pete Metzelaars. 

 

One game vs Miami where Thurman was out was one that stands out ... believe it was 94 we ran tons of counters w WRs to beg borrow and steal rushing yards. 

[nucci]

You have to run and throw quick slants and crossing patterns against a cover 2. We did none of that. How do you not  throw to Diggs until 4th qtr? No RPO with a bad line and slow RBs

[Straight Hucklebuck]

18 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Goodbye SB talk, MVP nonsense. There are no Dogs on this vanilla soft OL. RB's with no vision or ability to break tackles. We've officially run out of TE's until Knox returns. 4 wr drops today. Gabe's would've been a 1st. Josh played poorly but he can't be expected to cover these wars forever. Hey Brandon,  feel free to draft OL this spring. 

I agree, clearly our scouting group has to get better on the Offensive Line and Defensive Line. 

 

Despite all the investment on the defensive line, they don't get home often enough. The secondary is the strength of our unit. 

 

And the offensive line, Ford was a bust from the first Training Camp reports about the staff moving him back and forth from Guard to Tackle. It's not the injuries, he never was good. And Daryl Williams? Shredded his knee in Carolina and it looks like it now. 

 

In terms of the WRs, this is why when Beasley complains I just shrug my shoulders. You can't gameplan around a 32 year old slot guy who averages 10 yards per catch. 

 

When the Bills lost Knox, it looks like they have no physical mismatches anywhere on the field. 

1 hour ago, nucci said:

You have to run and throw quick slants and crossing patterns against a cover 2. We did none of that. How do you not  throw to Diggs until 4th qtr? No RPO with a bad line and slow RBs

No Isaiah McKenzie. 

 

Instead of dumping off to 4.7 Running Backs, can we use the guy who runs a 4.43?

[Nitro]

15 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I largely agree with this with the exception that the O-line is way worse then we thought it was.  Its not NFL caliber.  This calls for a complete reworking of the O-line and offensive game plan to include, IF Brown can't go this week, the following:

 

*  Start the other rookie at RT and move Williams to guard. 

 

*  Activate Bridda at RB.  We need the speed.

 

*  Put #41 and #89 (assuming Knox can't go) in the backfield to provide max protection. 

 

 

i AGREE WITH THE NEED FOR SPEED

[Straight Hucklebuck]

15 minutes ago, Nitro said:

i AGREE WITH THE NEED FOR SPEED

We said this all offseason, but despite Singletary working out more, and Zack Moss healthy enough to run, there is no playmaking. 

 

Diggs disappears for too long in these games this season. 

 

 

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

You have to run and throw quick slants and crossing patterns against a cover 2. We did none of that. How do you not  throw to Diggs until 4th qtr? No RPO with a bad line and slow RBs

That is what I dont get about Daboll. Our OL gets pushed in the backfield consistently and we still call the RPO constantly or other slow developing passes and runs. Its not like its all blitzes, its literally the OL gets no push. Daboll needs to accept that and adjust. Quick slants, pick routes, etc. Instead he is running routes to the outside which your qb needs more time and 5 step drop backs. 

[CSBill]

3 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Butch Rolle on the goal line was amazing.  From 87-91 he caught 11 passes, 10 for TD's.

The ultimate “role” player!

[nucci]

27 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

We said this all offseason, but despite Singletary working out more, and Zack Moss healthy enough to run, there is no playmaking. 

 

Diggs disappears for too long in these games this season. 

 

 

He doesn't disappear. Allen stops throwing to him

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

He doesn't disappear. Allen stops throwing to him

I don't understand it. 

 

It's like we can't hit him on a slant?

 

This happens all the time in this league, DK Metcalf going for 80-yards on the first play and then only getting one catch the rest of the game. 

 

I don't understand how an OC doesn't try to get the star WR the ball when half the quarter goes by and he still hasn't touched the ball. Or Allen for that matter. Change the play at the line and make it happen. 

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

I am watching Josh's postgame interview. The two things that jump out to me:

- He takes responsibility, total responsibility. I actually don't believe he deserves it for yesterday's performance, but good for him - standing with his team.

- This guy is heartfelt. We never have to (not that we have) wonder how much he cares.

We've got a good leader. On to New York.

 

Thats what good leaders do.  He obviously had a some fault but even that fault stems from the o line.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't understand it. 

 

It's like we can't hit him on a slant?

 

This happens all the time in this league, DK Metcalf going for 80-yards on the first play and then only getting one catch the rest of the game. 

 

I don't understand how an OC doesn't try to get the star WR the ball when half the quarter goes by and he still hasn't touched the ball. Or Allen for that matter. Change the play at the line and make it happen. 

 

Im not sure they are in the playbook.  I wish I had all 22.  Anytime I see the breakdowns online of the few plays they choose... the routes are always the long developing downfield stuff.  Sometimes its not just downfield its just long developing out and ins or Diggs going all the way across the field in a big moon arc.  Like these plays are meant for 3-5 second holds but as of last week the pocket is done in 2.1.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Scott7975

[BearNorth]

Can we please stop wearing that jersey/pants combination?

 

[Barnaby Wilde]

On 11/7/2021 at 6:14 PM, Billsatlastin2018 said:

If you’re an excellent team, you simply cannot lose against those bums!

 

You should roll them.

 

And now, you’ve lost every advantage as ALL your critical AFC opponents won!

 

Beyond putrid!

I see your located in Toronto.  Leaf fans thought the Leafs were unstoppable last year.  Their fans would beat their chests about the team while trashing McDavid a lessor to Matthews.  The ending to the season underscored the arrogance of Leaf fans in looking down at everybody else in the league.  They got paid their just due.  The point being nobody is a bum in the NFL and like a hungry Habs team like they were, they wanted it more than the Leafs and than the Bills wanted it from the Jaguars.  Humble.

Edited November 10, 2021 by AbsoluteMeatHead
I have no life.