Hypothetical: Do the Bills win if we give Singletary 25 carries?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

This is a quality over quantity argument. I think we need to run more effectively, not just more. 

To the OP, we win that game if the plan was more conservative, we punt on 4th-1 and 4th-8 and run Singletary more.

 

The Bills (and media) apply the same pass first template to every game, every situation and the Chiefs and Steelers have both shown us now that that method can be beaten.

[Don Otreply]

54 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

You can take Josh's 9 runs and hand them to Singletary that is fine.  I hate the designed Runs, except the QB sneaks.  Thats fine.  But I also do not want to RUN more

When running is working, it can be used to ones benefit…, doesn’t mean every game, 

 

Go Bills!!!

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

When running is working, it can be used to ones benefit…, doesn’t mean every game, 

 

Go Bills!!!

Agree my ONLY issue with the Script, is that the 3rd QTR should have been run heavy.  You were in a dog fight but winning, thats when you start closing the game out with the Run 

[TheFunPolice]

I might be crazy, but I really like Singletary.

 

I think he's noticeably faster this year and he was great his rookie season.

 

Do we run screens? Draws? KC runs quite a bit for a team that seems all about Mahomes. I would like to see a bit more balance and some creativity. 

[Don Otreply]

43 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Agree my ONLY issue with the Script, is that the 3rd QTR should have been run heavy.  You were in a dog fight but winning, thats when you start closing the game out with the Run 

Yes, it does depend on circumstances at hand, 

[The Jokeman]

and as good as we were defending the run the Steelers gave their rookie RB 16 carries. Say what you want but throwing 51 times doesn't win you much in the NFL. 

[BillsFan1]

Please, run the ball more.   Offense looks like Chuck and Duck the Oilers used to run.  Not good.

[Mr. WEO]

no

[CountDorkula]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

and as good as we were defending the run the Steelers gave their rookie RB 16 carries. Say what you want but throwing 51 times doesn't win you much in the NFL. 

The average QB throws the Ball 35 times a game now. 

 

Good ones throw the ball 40+ times a game. 

 

The NFL is a passing league now. 

 

Its not uncommon to see 45-50 pass plays a game anymore. 

29 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I might be crazy, but I really like Singletary.

 

I think he's noticeably faster this year and he was great his rookie season.

 

Do we run screens? Draws? KC runs quite a bit for a team that seems all about Mahomes. I would like to see a bit more balance and some creativity. 

Buffalo ran the ball more than KC did last year.

 

You could trade CEH for an average RB and the results would be exactly the same for KC.

 

They are good because their pass offense is unstoppable. 

 

[FilthyBeast]

Unless you are the Tom Brady era Pats, you win in this league with balance.

 

And this is the problem, since Daboll was around for a large chunk of those Brady SB era teams in New England, he's trying to run the same type of offense in Buffalo not understanding that Allen is not Brady and this defense isn't Belichik's.

 

So yes we really need to trying running the ball a little more especially against Miami since they have the ability to what the Steelers did on defense in some matchups/cases.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

No it is Zac Moss time he has the size and quickness and you have to see if he is the guy the Bill's passed on Johnathan Taylor, in the draft so they could draft Aj and get Moss later on because you can't just piss away a season and think next year. Wait until the draft you don't know you could draft the next Eric Dickerson, and all of a sudden first game injury oh out for the year.

.

[BBills88]

2 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

I mean 25 feature back runs. Not Josh falling forward into linebackers 9 times. 

Only time I want JA17 to run the ball is 4 & inches. Or we on the goal line.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

6 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

The average QB throws the Ball 35 times a game now. 

 

Good ones throw the ball 40+ times a game. 

 

The NFL is a passing league now. 

 

Its not uncommon to see 45-50 pass plays a game anymore. 

Buffalo ran the ball more than KC did last year.

 

You could trade CEH for an average RB and the results would be exactly the same for KC.

 

They are good because their pass offense is unstoppable. 

 

I just think Kansas City and the Steelers showed the Bills that Allen being the entire offense (throwing virtually every play and expecting him to be the leading rusher as well) is not a copy and paste template for every game. 

 

WGR has really pushed this constant narrative that running is to be avoided at all costs, that any running game is bad. Fans are scared to say we should run more, that Singletary needs to touch the ball more, but in this game that was the case. The Steelers got back into this game because our line was being caved in and we kept throwing anyways, and made two horrible calls on 4th-down. 

 

Had we thrown underneath and ran some more, I think that's a game we would have won. 

 

I don't understand how Singletary gets blame for this game for not running well enough, the guy gets virtually no work. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

He averaged 6.5 yards on 11 carries. How much does another 14 carries change the game? 
 

Personally, Josh throwing 51 times isn’t sustainable, and we did him zero favors by not establishing the run. 

 

Outside of the two big runs in the 4th...he didn't do much.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

8 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Unless you are the Tom Brady era Pats, you win in this league with balance.

 

And this is the problem, since Daboll was around for a large chunk of those Brady SB era teams in New England, he's trying to run the same type of offense in Buffalo not understanding that Allen is not Brady and this defense isn't Belichik's.

 

So yes we really need to trying running the ball a little more especially against Miami since they have the ability to what the Steelers did on defense in some matchups/cases.

Allen is great on the underneath throws. Diggs was open all day on out routes. Beasley slices underneath on slants and he is open. 

 

The Bills OC gets impatient and just wants it all right now. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

You also run to close out games.  If there is any complaint with how the game script was written was not going Run Heavy in the 3rd

We don't ever go run heavy. Not yesterday.  Not last year. We're going to come to the harsh reality that we've got a great qb and very good wrs but our OL is bottom half of the league. Defenses will continue to come after Josh and flood the passing lanes while completely ignoring Devin and Dawson. As many have accurately said in other threads, Daboll is on a short leash. Those 4th down plays were embarrassments. There's a reason he didn't get hired after last season.

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Allen is great on the underneath throws. Diggs was open all day on out routes. Beasley slices underneath on slants and he is open. 

 

The Bills OC gets impatient and just wants it all right now. 

 

You might be right and I guess there's a reason why the Chargers and other teams passed on Daboll.

 

But at the end of the day it still comes down to QB and yesterday was one of Allens worse games in his career even when guys were wide open.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

You might be right and I guess there's a reason why the Chargers and other teams passed on Daboll.

 

But at the end of the day it still comes down to QB and yesterday was one of Allens worse games in his career even when guys were wide open.

I haven’t watched the game again, but upon first viewing I don’t think that was the case.

 

I think WGR has pushed this narrative that Allen should be the entire offense, that any hint of running is bad, and so we’re all disappointed when Allen doesn’t play like a superhero.

You have Bass, you skip a chance of a 53 yard FG to try a gunned pass into triple coverage on 4th-8 and the Steelers score.

 

The Bills got impatient and it’s all on Allen yesterday to make tight window throws down the field, when simple passes were working and the defense largely played lights out.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

To the OP, we win that game if the plan was more conservative, we punt on 4th-1 and 4th-8 and run Singletary more.

 

The Bills (and media) apply the same pass first template to every game, every situation and the Chiefs and Steelers have both shown us now that that method can be beaten.

I don’t think we lost because we weren’t conservative enough. 
 

It boils down to our O line being mismatched against their D line. 
 

If we can it more often with a similar lack of effectiveness then that does not make the D change to respect the run. Their DBs would still sit back in zone. Their D line would still pin its collective ears back. 

[GunnerBill]

Not with this line, no. excluding the two long runs against prevent he averaged 3.5 ypc. Not his fault, when the Steelers were contesting the line of scrimmage our guys got zero push up front.

[Mat68]

No.  15 more play action passes I do.  

[Mr. WEO]

He never came close to 25 carries in any game last year.  Won 13.

[quinnearlysghost88]

6 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

No.  15 more play action passes I do.  

You have to actually run the ball for anyone to be fooled by the play action. 

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

He never came close to 25 carries in any game last year.  Won 13.

I agree…that he did that…last year. This is a new year and the league has 19 more games of tape on us. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

You have to actually run the ball for anyone to be fooled by the play action. 

I agree…that he did that…last year. This is a new year and the league has 19 more games of tape on us. 

 

The tapes confirm:   "Singletary won't run more than 20 times".

[ngbills]

The mindset of this team is to have the ball in Josh hands as much as possible. That said I do think in our losses Daboll appears to be unable to balance out the game. This was a good example of a time maybe you run the ball a bit to take the pressure of Allen who seemed of his game. Maybe that allows him to settle down a bit. I also want less of those designed Allen runs that put him spots to get destroyed. Some of them are juts so painfully obvious you know he is going to take a lick. And I hate hate hate the one option only plays. Allows at least have an outlet. That flea flicker could have still worked if there was another option, but is was all or anything. 

[Mat68]

11 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

You have to actually run the ball for anyone to be fooled by the play action. 

I agree…that he did that…last year. This is a new year and the league has 19 more games of tape on us. 

No you dont.  Play action is more effect than drop back passing.  Even without an established run game.  

[Mat68]

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

The mindset of this team is to have the ball in Josh hands as much as possible. That said I do think in our losses Daboll appears to be unable to balance out the game. This was a good example of a time maybe you run the ball a bit to take the pressure of Allen who seemed of his game. Maybe that allows him to settle down a bit. I also want less of those designed Allen runs that put him spots to get destroyed. Some of them are juts so painfully obvious you know he is going to take a lick. And I hate hate hate the one option only plays. Allows at least have an outlet. That flea flicker could have still worked if there was another option, but is was all or anything. 

I dont want to run 25 times a games.  I want Josh to run less than 4 times.  Thats 5 carries to the backs.  Those extra runs out of 21 under center.   Utilize Allens rare athletic ability and roll him out to stretch the field. Its not a complete ***** show.  Buffalo darn near had 400 yards of offense.  Play the averages better, manufactor easy completions, utilize a formation that keeps the defense guessing.  All spread all the time fills a stat sheet but hard to control a game. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

18 hours ago, Mat68 said:

No you dont.  Play action is more effect than drop back passing.  Even without an established run game.  

Show me the stats. 

[CountDorkula]

19 hours ago, Mat68 said:

No you dont.  Play action is more effect than drop back passing.  Even without an established run game.  

play action also turns the QBs back to the line and with that pass rush last Sunday, you want Allen seeing the early rush as soon as possible so he can use his mobility. 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I don't want to run the ball a lot more but having a back in the backfield and forcing the defense to respect the run..........or then using that RB in pass pro or as a safety valve receiving option..........is much more valuable than just running him out to the boundary to be an unusable receiver (as they did Sunday).

 

If Singletary gets that wide he might as well keep going and get a drink of water.   You are playing 10 versus 11 when you do that.

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

play action also turns the QBs back to the line and with that pass rush last Sunday, you want Allen seeing the early rush as soon as possible so he can use his mobility. 

No, I want zone defenders to change there cues and take a false step or no step.  Give Allen a clearer picture with easier reads.  Im not saying do it every time but straight drop back passing wasnt efficient.  Mix up what the defense is seeing.  You do that with motion and play action.  

[billsherd]

They don't win the game and I believe they would score less than 16 points. Most of those yards came when we needed to throw the ball. I believe his first 7 carries had him around 23 yards.

[Jauronimo]

No.

[klos63]

23 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

He averaged 6.5 yards on 11 carries. How much does another 14 carries change the game? 
 

Personally, Josh throwing 51 times isn’t sustainable, and we did him zero favors by not establishing the run. 

If he scored a couple of touchdowns, yes it would have changed the game.

[oldmanfan]

I think they bring Moss back in this week and run the ball more.  Breida didn't show much, and why they take their supposed speed back and run him up the middle is a mystery.  Methinks Sean had a bit of a sit down with Daboll this week and told him to stop the cute stuff.  

[JohninMinn.]

He presents absolutely no breakaway speed and therefore not much of a threat to score.

[TheFunPolice]

I know one thing: I would much rather see Singletary run a 5 yard draw than Allen taking a huge shot and fumbling the ball 50% of the time when he runs up the middle. 

[marky]

Singletary stops at the line, then gets tackled, making Minkah Fitzpatrick look like Ray Lewis. 10 seconds later, refs stop play to announce holding on Dawkins for the gazillionth time in the first quarter. Drive ends in a blocked punt because Murphy stepped to the outside on max protect.

[Mike in Horseheads]

NO!

[DrPJax]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:14 AM, Bangarang said:

We didn’t win 13 games and have one of the league’s best offenses last year by giving our RBs 25 carries. 

True!  But we lost both KC games, Tennessee , and squeaked by in those playoff games.   We easily could have lost the colts game.  Big thing is looking at beating the KC, the Bucs ran and Cleveland , who almost beat KC on the road, are strong competitors and they almost won by running and keeping Mahomes off the field.  We need to do that against the Bucs, Saints, and Kc just n the regular season , and things go up a notch in the post season.  When you throw so much you are prone to quick 3& outs if Allen is off at all and that’s all Mahomes and Brady need is an extra possession or two additionally.  Running is a way to run clock and keep those two guys we have not beaten recently off the field.  If we do another 51 pass vs 11 carries by our RBS in thise gabs again, I am pretty sure we will see the same results.  It’s about enforcing your will , esp by the o line and not getting your ass handed to you.  We have struggle for years against Brady, Mahomes has owned us so far , doing the same O will be defended just like the Steelers did.  Heck, the Bucs figured out how to slow down Mahomes with their D , in addition to the Bucs running game having good success. So they will stop our pass happy o  as they have a dominant d line similar to Pittsburgh.  We need some legit balance to make pass action need to be respected. We need to protect our franchise qb as well.