Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I thought Fromm was terrible... Some people just don't look like football players on the field. His poise reminded me of EJ Manuel. I could tell he was overthinking everything and overall just looked uncomfortable taking snaps. Even the 4th down completion, great accurate throw but it was a one-read nothing to think about play. Just throw it to a spot and trust Stevenson to beat his guy, which he did. Combine poor poise with Peterman level arm strength and mediocre accuracy, I see nothing to build on there. Sorry @JakeFrommStateFarm

That's exactly what I see.

[K-9]

5 hours ago, eball said:

I just finished watching the game and my immediate post-game reaction was:  cut Hart.  He was brutal.

 

So happy to see that Rousseau appears to be ready for prime time.

 

Roughing call on Obada was complete b.s.  I “get” the call on Boogie but it was borderline also.

 

I thought Boogie had his struggles but also flashed a few times.

 

Agree with your take on CB depth.

 

I’ll add Stevenson to the “good night” column.  Showed excellent hands and displayed some of that speed.  I’ll give him a pass for taking that last kickoff out of the end zone as he was just trying to make a play.

 

I was less enthusiastic about Webb’s play.  I guess it was gameplanning but absolutely nothing down the field, and a couple of those throwaways were questionable.  Really bad play on the intentional grounding; I don’t expect that from a guy everyone says is so smart.  He threw the pass to Sweeney on his inside shoulder or that could have been an even bigger play.

 

I think Fromm had a decent outing.  No chance on those sacks.  Put the ball in good position on most of his throws (missed Duke on the deep one) and he was the only Bills QB to go downfield with the ball.

 

Really liked the emphasis on the running game and agree that Motor looked great.

 

It was only one play but an excellent CATCH in a tight window by Knox.

 

I doubt the Bills coaches spent one minute game-planning for last night. 
 

And while I agree that an offense that put up so many points isn’t in crying need of much, having that legit deep speed threat adds a whole new dimension and really benefits the rest of the receiving corps. I suspect opposing DCs would be losing sleep if we actually had that type of player. Not saying that’s Stephenson, btw.

[Coach Tuesday]

I can’t believe it, Fromm Truthers exist.

[GoBills808]

55 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Right but he played well so. 🤷‍♂️

He played well in certain spots, on pass downs left in 1v1 specifically. He still can’t hold up at 1tech at the point of attack which should be a concern.

[Shaw66]

Here's what the NFL.com scouting report said about Fromm coming out.   I think he is exactly as described, and we saw it last night.   He was a great college football quarterback, and that was his peak. 

 

Quote

Heady quarterback who is light on physical traits but sees the game like a pro signal-caller most of the time. Fromm has big-game experience and proved to be a worthy challenger against Alabama as a freshman and sophomore. He's a full-field reader who has shown a consistent ability to change plays and make smart pre- and post-snap decisions. Arm strength is a concern, and that concern may be exacerbated if his ball placement and timing aren't more consistent. He's an intelligent game-manager whose range is good backup to middling starter, but he will be scheme- and skill-position-needy at the next level.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Here's what the NFL.com scouting report said about Fromm coming out.   I think he is exactly as described, and we saw it last night.   He was a great college football quarterback, and that was his peak. 

 

 

I hate having and especially drafting guys like him. They are smart and they can succeed if not be stellar in college, in pro practice, and even in preseason. It’s almost predictable. But they cannot succeed on a regular basis in the NFL regular season because their arms prohibit it. And coaches, even good ones, get enamored with their play in these 3/4 speed settings. 
 

I don’t want them on my team because they may or even likely look good in practice/preseason. 

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Separate plays. They both had a RTP call.

Thought that RTP on Boogie was complete horse pucky

[eball]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I hate having and especially drafting guys like him. They are smart and they can succeed if not be stellar in college, in pro practice, and even in preseason. It’s almost predictable. But they cannot succeed on a regular basis in the NFL regular season because their arms prohibit it. And coaches, even good ones, get enamored with their play in these 3/4 speed settings. 
 

I don’t want them on my team because they may or even likely look good in practice/preseason. 

 

The great news is that we’re having this conversation about a guy trying to latch on as a #3 QB, not debating whether he should be starting (a la Peterman in 2017).

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

The great news is that we’re having this conversation about a guy trying to latch on as a #3 QB, not debating whether he should be starting (a la Peterman in 2017).

amen.

[ColoradoBills]

Great evaluation @GunnerBill.  Just a couple of comments:

 

Tommy Sweeney:  He looked good and his chances of making the 53 may end up being tied to how well of a blocker he is compared to Knox/Hollister.

I'm not convinced that Gilliam at 6'1" is big enough to play that role.  Gilliam will make the team based on FB/HB/ST which looks good.

Tommy is definitely worth watching in the next 2 PS games to see his role.  I do have a hard time thinking the Bills go with only 2 true TEs.

 

Davis Webb:  Good point about a chance he could get claimed on waivers.  Still think they go with 2 QBs on the 53 and take the chance with Webb

and Fromm as cuts.  Davis is also a key guy to watch if his play picks up even more then your point gets even stronger.

 

Dane Jackson:  Last year he looked pretty good at RCB and I noticed he played LCB to start yesterday.  Not sure where he has been getting 

the majority of snaps at in camp.  Maybe his technique at LCB is lacking compared to the other side?   

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Im hoping Dane picks it up......his play appears to have really dipped from last season I am not sure why.   No play he lets a ball carrier get away from him like he did last night

[transplantbillsfan]

Good stuff Gunner. I said last night my 4 biggest positive takeaways were Rousseau, Singletary, Sweeney and Dodson, in that order. Pretty much exactly what you posted here.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Agree on the CBs that everyone knew and the Bills did nothing about.

 

I think the Bills believed Dane Jackson and Siran Neal were further along than they showed last night

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I was interested in two things going into the game.   Can the Bills run, and can the Bills stop the run?   On offense, I wasn't overly excited.  Yes, Singletary looks like he's returned to his 2019 style - hit the hole, then beat someone.   He's good at that, and he seemed to have lost that focus last season.  It was good to see him go last night.  But the offensive line wasn't dominating anyone - it seems the best the Bills can hope on offense is to create some seams and have a back scramble for 5 to 15 yards.  When they fall short of that, the run game stalls.  Breida didn't look explosive enough to change that.   It's almost as though Moss is a slightly bigger, tougher version of Singletary, and Breida is a slightly smaller, quicker version.   We'll see.  Williams is tough, but didn't stand out.

 

Erm...you do realize the Bills had probably only hoped-for 1 starter on the field on OL (Ford at RG)?

Boettger started last year at LG but this year they've been pretty consistent giving Feliciano "1s" snaps ahead of Boettger.

 

In contrast, the Lions appeared to lead off with their starters on both sides of the ball for the 1st two drives.

 

How much domination do you expect from our 2nd or 3rd string guys on OL (I'm not persuaded Bates is the #2 center ahead of Feliciano)?

Also, we're just not built to be a smash-mouth power gap OL.

 

Even so, we gained 51 yds on the ground (initial run called back by holding on Hart included) on the first 2 drives.

Assuming 8 drives per game, that's on point to gain >200 yds per game on the ground.  What exactly do you want to see?

 

 

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That’s a lot of faith in a couple late round picks as depth for a team with SB aspirations. 

 

So quick.  Who are the depth corners for Tampa Bay and how good are they?

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Erm...you do realize the Bills had probably only hoped-for 1 starter on the field on OL (Ford at RG)?

Boettger started last year at LG but this year they've been pretty consistent giving Feliciano "1s" snaps ahead of Boettger.

 

In contrast, the Lions appeared to lead off with their starters on both sides of the ball for the 1st two drives.

 

How much domination do you expect from our 2nd or 3rd string guys on OL (I'm not persuaded Bates is the #2 center ahead of Feliciano)?

Also, we're just not built to be a smash-mouth power gap OL.

 

Even so, we gained 51 yds on the ground (initial run called back by holding on Hart included) on the first 2 drives.

Assuming 8 drives per game, that's on point to gain >200 yds per game on the ground.  What exactly do you want to see?

 

 

 

Thanks.  Gotta admit I wasn't paying much attention to who was on the line other than Brown.  

 

Good point.   I appeciate it.  Changes my view a bit. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

5 hours ago, eball said:

 

Good stuff on Rousseau.  As for Obada’s hit, I still don’t think it was dirty.  Just watched it again; he didn’t go for the knees and really just tried to wrap the QB’s leg up at the ankle.  It was a bad call in my opinion.

 

Side note: does anyone know if it is O-BAH-da or O-ba-DAH?

 

It might be O-BLAH-DEE or O-BAH-DA.  I'll ask Paul McCartney....

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

It might be O-BLAH-DEE or O-BAH-DA.  I'll ask Paul McCartney....

That's what I thought, too, but I didn't want to do the research to figure out how to spell it. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Couldn’t tell you. I know they got a lot out of Murphy bunting last season and they have one of(if not the best) front sevens in football which obviously helps the secondary..... the Bills don’t. Just saying, I don’t think I’m exaggerating in stating their lack of aggressiveness at CB this past offseason could come back and hurt them this season against the better teams of the league. 

 

Murphy-bunting and Carlton Davis are their starters.  Jamel Dean is their Nickle.

 

I leave you to deplore the Buccaneers lack of aggressiveness at improving their #4 -6 CB depth.

 

PS most teams improve at #4-6 depth by hoping 2nd year players continue to develop and bringing in a couple rookies they like

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Murphy-bunting and Carlton Davis are their starters.  Jamel Dean is their Nickle.

 

I leave you to deplore the Buccaneers lack of aggressiveness at improving their #4 -6 CB depth.

 

PS most teams improve at #4-6 depth by hoping 2nd year players continue to develop and bringing in a couple rookies they like

 

It's former Bill Ross Cockrell isn't it? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Like I said. The Bucs have one of, if not the best, front fours in the league…. That makes a tremendous difference for the secondary…. The Bills while hopefully improved don’t have anywhere near that sort of front four. 

 

Tell me, if a point sharpened itself in front of you, sauntered across the room in full view, and impaled itself in the floor 2.54 cm to the left of your R big toe, would you acknowledge it?  Or no?

[Paul Costa]

For some reason the game wasn’t on in Stamford CT. Atlanta game was on 😤. Drove upstate to Elliottville today and just saw the highlights on the local news.  saw last night many complimenting Our punter. Said he hit 3 or 4 inside the 20. Usually when we’re complimenting the punting the team sucks. But good to hear he did well

[Hapless Bills Fan]

51 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's former Bill Ross Cockrell isn't it? 

 

I am impressed with you!

 

Yes, he is one of them.  He primarily stayed on the roster due to ST last season, but he wound up starting 2 games and seeing significant snaps in a couple more.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

For some reason the game wasn’t on in Stamford CT. Atlanta game was on 😤. Drove upstate to Elliottville today and just saw the highlights on the local news.  saw last night many complimenting Our punter. Said he hit 3 or 4 inside the 20. Usually when we’re complimenting the punting the team sucks. But good to hear he did well

 

 

 

 

Wait for this one: 54 freakin' yards #WhataDomeCanDo

 

 

[Putin]

I’m still pissed we didn’t use our 2nd round pick on a CB 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Putin

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

3 hours ago, Paul Costa said:

For some reason the game wasn’t on in Stamford CT. Atlanta game was on 😤. Drove upstate to Elliottville today and just saw the highlights on the local news.  saw last night many complimenting Our punter. Said he hit 3 or 4 inside the 20. Usually when we’re complimenting the punting the team sucks. But good to hear he did well

As Joe Marino has pointed out, Haack is also a much better holder than Bojorquez. When a kicker misses we love roasting him and usually don't acknowledge the hold unless it's overt.

 

Bojo would often have it lopsided instead of standing up straight or the laces would be wrong, you really could see it a lot of the time if you looked for it. It sounds funny but every one of Haack's holds were surgical. He's a pro. The Dolphins' kicker Sanders had a career year with Haack. I think Bass is gonna kill it even more this year and approach his craft with confidence. So yeah...holding, everybody.

Edited August 15, 2021 by 2020 Our Year For Sure

[Dablitzkrieg]

We need corner depth.  That will be the downfall of this team against KC.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

We need corner depth.  That will be the downfall of this team against KC.  

 

There is no corner on God's Planet who can cover Kelce and the KC WR in the absence of strong pressure from the Starting DL.

We needed an upgrade on DL.  My concern is whether we got enough.

 

Beane will be on the lookout and if they feel they need more depth at corner, they will pick someone up during roster cuts.

[JerseyBills]

Great night for the rook!

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

As Joe Marino has pointed out, Haack is also a much better holder than Bojorquez. When a kicker misses we love roasting him and usually don't acknowledge the hold unless it's overt.

 

Bojo would often have it lopsided instead of standing up straight or the laces would be wrong, you really could see it a lot of the time if you looked for it. It sounds funny but every one of Haack's holds were surgical. He's a pro. The Dolphins' kicker Sanders had a career year with Haack. I think Bass is gonna kill it even more this year and approach his craft with confidence. So yeah...holding, everybody.

 

"Laces Out, Bojo"

 

Wonder how Bojo's doing for the Rams?  He's not assured a roster spot, competing against Hekker

 

Wonder if the Rams have noticed his holding problems and if that will weigh into the competition.

[LABILLBACKER]

15 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Thanks…. Scratching my head wondering why the Bills did absolutely nothing at corner all off-season. Still not too late….

I really thought Dane would step it up and take that CB2 away from Levi. Boy was I wrong. Stevenson's speed and return ability should get him a spot. Hart is gonzo. Neither Webb nor Fromm impressed me.

[Putin]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There is no corner on God's Planet who can cover Kelce and the KC WR in the absence of strong pressure from the Starting DL.

We needed an upgrade on DL.  My concern is whether we got enough.

 

Beane will be on the lookout and if they feel they need more depth at corner, they will pick someone up during roster cuts.

I’m not counting on our defense to stop Mahomes ,  I think Josh will have to play lights out for us to win 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Putin said:

I’m not counting on our defense to stop Mahomes ,  I think Josh will have to play lights out for us to win 

 

Then why are you "pissed" about how we used our 2nd round pick?

[34-78-83]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Good night for Zimmer, bad night for Harrison Phillips. Joe Buscaglia pointed out that Zimmer barely played last night, while Phillips played the entire 1st half. That tells you where the coaches place them.

Phillips play looked to be at the level he was approaching pre-injury last night to me. Looked very stout vs. the run and got upfield some even. Guess I saw it differently.

[Putin]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Then why are you "pissed" about how we used our 2nd round pick?

Well because we still have 16 other games besides KC that we have to play , and we can’t expect Josh to play lights out in all of them 

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, K-9 said:

I doubt the Bills coaches spent one minute game-planning for last night. 

 

They spent a lot of time game-planning in that game but the game-planning is different than in regular season games.

They wanted to test players with live opponents to see how would they react and whether they put to use what they have gone over in camp including corrections.  In order to do that they need to game plan to get as many possible plays.  It is like a scrimmage except you do not do the planning with opponent.

 

There will be a number of players doing corrections especially on items flagged.

 

Did anyone see any referees in training camp videos?  I haven't and I have been looking for them.

When a good percentage of referees were made fulltime part of the justification was they were going to help teach during training camp but they got a hall pass with COVID last year.

[Richard Noggin]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

That’s a lot of faith in a couple late round picks as depth for a team with SB aspirations. 

But isn't that how roster development works for teams interested in the kind of sustainable success Beane has aspired to? (I'm thinking of organizations like GB, PITT, and BAL when I type this. Teams that have QBs (for the most part), and rely elsewhere upon sober, draft-based, long-term roster-building (for the most part). They don't behave like KC or the LA Rams, with their high turnover and reduced reliance upon drafted depth.)

 

I understand the desire for the most recent 2nd-round pick to be spent on a promising CB or OL instead of another DE. But outside of that, I'm not sure what the better approach would be.

[machine gun kelly]

I don’t know if it was a mistake, but Basham didn’t look good in the game, and there have been several reports his first TC has been mediocre.

 

I originally thought he would shine given his college experience and Rousseau would have to develop over time.  It’s only 1 PS game, so we’ll see.

[Green Lightning]

19 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The pass to Stevenson was gorgeous and timely, but he didn’t throw one pass that showed he has NFL requisite arm strength. He also looked rather slow in everything. 

Same for Webb. Not a NFL arm.

[Coach Tuesday]

6 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Same for Webb. Not a NFL arm.

Webb has a strong arm actually.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I don’t know if it was a mistake, but Basham didn’t look good in the game, and there have been several reports his first TC has been mediocre.

Boogie Basham bad?!  Balderdash! 🤨