1st official depth chart has been released

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Okay, I’m literally in tears right now. Why is my boy Boogie buried under the depth chart? 😰

 

Rousseau and AJE have by most accounts looked better in camp and there is just a logjam at the position. I wouldn't be too worried yet. He will be on the team. 

[Buffalo Boy]

54 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

You mean Trubisky has no shot of being the starter??

He’s starting this week💪💪💪

[Mikie2times]

We knew the names, but to see it stacked on paper, we are loaded on both sides. 

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Feel like there isn’t much that separates any of the Guards as you go down the depth chart. It’s good in that you have quality depth, it’s bad in that none are real stand out starters. 

Outside of LT, I can’t really think of too many positions along the OL that are worth paying top dollar to. Sure, $12-$14M to a guy like Dion Dawkins is just fine, but would I pay a RT $19M? Heck no. Or a OG $14M-$15M? Heck no. I think a case can be made for center, though.

 

Give me a good OL, not an elite one. Good lines will give your QB plenty of time to throw. You need an elite line to ground and pound, which is so unbelievably outdated at this point. A great LT and a great OC is basically where your big money on the OL needs to go. Solid, meat and potato players are fine everywhere else. I think Daryl Williams and Spencer Brown kind of fall into that category. I’m not talking about sucky players like Mike Williams or Langston Walker.

 

Ideally you would like to spend money, big money anyways, on QB, LT, WR, C, TE, DE, CB, S and MLB. If you have star players at these positions and solid players to patch in the holes everywhere else, your roster is in prime position to kick some ass.

[Dablitzkrieg]

28 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

Traded before cut though right? He’s on a contract year too isn’t he? Wonder if being able to net a comp pick if they don’t resign him next offseason plays into any calculations. 
 

also, something about growth/improvement curves and how they know what their long term needs against expected skill growth and salary requirements. I am a big Phillips fan in terms of play style and think he is a super valuable chip, whose going to be playing his 2nd season after an acl tear, and you stuck with him through his down post surgery season. 

I have a feeling someone will get traded in the next couple of weeks

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Bills92 said:

Where is Ertz?

 

On Eagles.  Maybe you should post there?

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

Does is mean anything that Kumerow is 2nd behind Diggs, and Wildgoose is 2nd behind Tre? Does that mean Kumerow is ahead of Davis, and the Goose is a ahead of Dane? Or not really?

 

Not really.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Main takeaways - Phillips is in trouble and they want to stash Stevenson on the PS.

Yeah I agree. I had high hopes for H. Phillips. Probably because he resembled Kyle Williams a little bit and was hoping he was the perfect replacement. Unfortunately it's been a little disappointing. 

[Punching Bag]

28 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

We play in 46 front situationally, but only a small fraction of the time. The Bills played 90% of their snaps in nickel last season to lead the league. I think they will experiment with other fronts to make use of our abundance of pass rushers, but 3 cb's is the new normal.

 

I hope they go with a 5-2-2-2 defense.  It puts our best starters in there and pressure on OL since each needs to block one on one.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

So we are officially a 46 defense. 

If I had to peg them, they’re more of a 4-2-5

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

13 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I hope they go with a 5-2-2-2 defense.  It puts our best starters in there and pressure on OL since each needs to block one on one.

The one thing we lack is a hybrid lb like Lorax who can cover and rush the passer. We sometimes blitz lbs up the middle, but we don't have anyone who can beat blocks 1-on-one with linemen. There needs to be the threat of the edge rushers dropping into coverage or else the offense will just get the ball out quick and dink-and-dunk us to death.

[Buffalo716]

36 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

We play in 46 front situationally, but only a small fraction of the time. The Bills played 90% of their snaps in nickel last season to lead the league. I think they will experiment with other fronts to make use of our abundance of pass rushers, but 3 cb's is the new normal.

I'd like to see the still frame of the bills in an actual 46 setup

 

Not a hybrid

 

When have our strong side and weak sideline backers ever lined up next to each other on the strong side of the formation, with a Mike and SS playing another LB spot?  

 

This is a traditional 46

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

If I had to peg them, they’re more of a 4-2-5

That's a nickel defense for a 43 team .. which is basically 65% of our packages

[HardyBoy]

27 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I have a feeling someone will get traded in the next couple of weeks

I think it’s likely someone at the top of that first depth chart. Trying to trade a starter gives you a better initial position in negotiations. 

[Punching Bag]

6 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

The one thing we lack is a hybrid lb like Lorax who can cover and rush the passer. We sometimes blitz lbs up the middle, but we don't have anyone who can beat blocks 1-on-one with linemen. There needs to be the threat of the edge rushers dropping into coverage or else the offense will just get the ball out quick and dink-and-dunk us to death.

 

Last year we had LBs and DBs beat linemen one on one.  There was a DB PUSHING the lineman into backfield and you could see in his face WTF?

[TroutDog]

48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Rousseau and AJE have by most accounts looked better in camp and there is just a logjam at the position. I wouldn't be too worried yet. He will be on the team. 

I believe it’s more McDermott’s MO: push the rookies down and make them earn it. He’s done it since he’s been here. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

So we are officially a 46 defense. 

 

No, we are a base nickel defense. Like we were last year and the year before. And like most other teams are around the NFL now.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Big Turk

[Victory Formation]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Don’t disagree....although I don’t think you are giving Williams enough credit. Thought he was excellent last season..... not extremely confident in either Guard position though. Feliciano is overrated here and got tossed around in the championship game, maybe a full offseason to rehab his pec makes a difference. Ford has been disappointing. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if he develops into a quality starter. I actually think Ike is the better player.....either way, hopefully two guys step up and solidifies the unit inside. 

 
Feliciano? Was it his pec? Or was it his shoulder? I don’t remember. I will say this, I am excited to see him at LG and Ford at RG. This makes sense to me.

 

Anyways, as far as Williams goes.. I don’t see him as an elite player but I’d put RT only behind LT and OC as far as importance goes on the OL. He’s making what? $8M-$10M a year? That’s great value, I can’t complain.

[Victory Formation]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

His pec.....either way just put the best 5 out there. I don’t think Ford is part of that group but we will find out.

Oh, that’s right… his pec. Was it Ford who had the shoulder issues?

 

Anyways, I’m right with you on Ford. I think he’s average at best, but he’s their golden boy, they traded up to get him so they’re reluctant to admit that he sucks.

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Oh, that’s right… his pec. Was it Ford who had the shoulder issues?

 

Anyways, I’m right with you on Ford. I think he’s average at best, but he’s their golden boy, they traded up to get him so they’re reluctant to admit that he sucks.

It may be a combination of reluctance and trust in their draft process. Look at Wyatt Teller. Not totally comparable, since he was a 5th rounder, but hindsight makes you think they should've gave him more chances.

 

I can't blame them for giving their draft picks every chance in the world unless there is a huge red flag.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

-Dodson is listed as Edmunds's backup at MLB. His roster spot looks more secure than I might have thought.

 

I thought he pretty much totally sucked when he played for Edmunds last Fall.

But playing next to AJ Klein at OLB may not have helped his cause, especially since at that point they hadn't figured out how to compensate for the fact that Klein simply can't do what Milano does.

 

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They obviously really want Ford to take a Guard position and run with it…. Don’t even see Lamp listed?

 

Lamp is listed as 3rd string behind Ford and Boettger.

1 hour ago, akcash said:

I think it speaks to more how they value Butler more than the Zimmer love. Phillip's and Butler make it imo. Zimmer cut. It just shows up that way because there happens to be 1 less true 3tech than 1 techs.

 

I think you have it backwards.  Butler, if anything, is more of a true 3TDT who got pressed into service playing 1TDT and first sucked, then became kind of servicable in small doses.

 

Lotulelei and Phillips are the only true 1TDTs on the roster as far as I know, so putting Phillips behind Butler seems rather making a statement.

[vincec]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Main takeaways - Phillips is in trouble and they want to stash Stevenson on the PS.

Butler hasn’t really done anything either since he’s been with the team so I don’t think he’s that far ahead of Phillips. One good preseason game and those two can easily flip.

3 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Efe Obada is 3rd on the chart and Daryl Johnson is 4th! 

DE is going to be really tough unless they keep 7 of them. It seems hard to believe that they would cut a core ST player for a 3rd string DE who might play a couple of downs a game.

Edited August 12, 2021 by vincec

[vincec]

2 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Okay, I’m literally in tears right now. Why is my boy Boogie buried under the depth chart? 😰

Looking at that roster it makes me wonder if they shouldn’t have tried to find a CB instead of Basham.

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Need some DLinemen to become elite.

Looking at Oliver, AJ,Rousseau.  If even 1 can be consistently disruptive along with Hughes,  we'll cause QBs chaos

Obada will be our top DE by the end of the season imo...👍

2 minutes ago, vincec said:

Looking at that roster it makes me wonder if they shouldn’t have tried to find a CB instead of Basham.

I think they may have wanted to in the 1st, but one got taken right before their pick...

 

I was kind of hoping that after picking GR in the first, they would have traded down, like Beane had mentioned, and taken CB or DT

[Punching Bag]

25 minutes ago, vincec said:

Looking at that roster it makes me wonder if they shouldn’t have tried to find a CB instead of Basham.

 

Evidently they drafted best players rather than need as they said they do.

Basham was graded as a first round skill by Bills and when he was still available they drafted him.

[IgotBILLStopay]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is the first evidence we have of what the 53 man roster will look like.

 

Notable details:

 

-Starting o-line is Dawkins/Feliciano/Morse/Ford/Williams

 

-Kumerow and Davis are both listed as 2nd string outside WRs to Diggs and Sanders respectively.

 

-Stevenson is behind both Duke Williams and Hodgins. His chance of making the team looks slim.

 

-Breida is 3rd behind Singletary and Moss.

 

-Hollister is 2nd behind Knox.

 

-Hughes and Addison are the starting DEs. 2nd string is Rousseau and Epenesa. 3rd string is Obada and Basham. I see little chance of Addison getting cut as some have predicted.

 

-Harrison Phillips is behind both Zimmer and Butler. I think his roster spot is in jeopardy.

 

-Dodson is listed as Edmunds's backup at MLB. His roster spot looks more secure than I might have thought.

 

-Damar Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson are ahead of Josh Thomas and Tariq Thompson on the depth chart.

So Phillips, ObadA, Sweeney, Hodgins, Fromm, Doyle, Williams and Williams are on the outside looking in as of now.

 

Quite telling actually.

[akcash]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought he pretty much totally sucked when he played for Edmunds last Fall.

But playing next to AJ Klein at OLB may not have helped his cause, especially since at that point they hadn't figured out how to compensate for the fact that Klein simply can't do what Milano does.

 

 

Lamp is listed as 3rd string behind Ford and Boettger.

 

I think you have it backwards.  Butler, if anything, is more of a true 3TDT who got pressed into service playing 1TDT and first sucked, then became kind of servicable in small doses.

 

Lotulelei and Phillips are the only true 1TDTs on the roster as far as I know, so putting Phillips behind Butler seems rather making a statement.

I think Butler is straight tweeter. Hes not great at either but uses enough of his God given ability to stick around... I feel like Butler got more snaps than Zimmer did down the season. I just feel like they feel a little more comfortable with Butlers combination of size and speed... even if he doesn't reach his full potential. This is my opinion on and it isn't changing. I rewatched most games last year and imo Butler played better than Zimmer. People can hate all they want.

[billsherd]

While there is something to it, it's more like a seniority depth chart.

[billybrew1]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Feel like there isn’t much that separates any of the Guards as you go down the depth chart. It’s good in that you have quality depth, it’s bad in that none are real stand out starters. 

Interesting they moved Feliciano to LG from RG.... I was hoping Ford would be more athletic and run with the LG spot ....

Feliciano is very accommodating.

You Go, Jon!

Not the most athletic LG but perhaps Ford can crush someone from his RG spot?

Man, I hope Ford is an upgrade! (And a major one at that.)

I can hope, right?

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

So Phillips, ObadA, Sweeney, Hodgins, Fromm, Doyle, Williams and Williams are on the outside looking in as of now.

 

Quite telling actually.

 

Obada no, Sweeney maybe depending on if they keep 3 TEs plus Gilliam at FB.  The rest, yes. 

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, billybrew1 said:

Interesting they moved Feliciano to LG from RG.... I was hoping Ford would be more athletic and run with the LG spot ....

Feliciano is very accommodating.

You Go, Jon!

Not the most athletic LG but perhaps Ford can crush someone from his RG spot?

Man, I hope Ford is an upgrade! (And a major one at that.)

I can hope, right?

 

Feliciano said he lost weight and is quicker now.  Makes sense they put him at LG.

 

As for Ford, putting him at one OG spot and keeping him there should help.  If if doesn't...

[McBean]

Where da hell is Mike Jasper and Da’Rick Rogers!?

[billybrew1]

How will Special Teams effect roster building? Does Stevenson get called up if McKenzie goes down?

 

What about Taiwan, matakevich and D. Johnson?

3 3rd and 4th string players?

 

Are we going to start Klein vs. 12 offenses? Like NE is going to run? I think we see a lot of big sets. Do we keep in our standard D with Taron?

 

Does Tommy Sweeney play STs? I sure hope so as I want him to make it....

 

Do Stadium Wall Gents feel comfortable with McKenzie doing both kicking jobs? Not sure I do. I'm just worried he is going to get hurt. I think he'll do a fantastic job though (although he might fumble if hit hard.) I think I prefer two separate players returning. One PR and one KOS. Right now, McKenzie is a very important Buffalo Bill. Go get 'em, Isaiah!

 

Jake Kumerow is for real! UnBillievable! 

What to do with Isaiah Hodgins? He looks like an NFL WR.... Doesn't he?  Will he make it to the PS? What about Stevenson?

Just about every team wants to cut low round picks but keep them on the PS, though we have a strong and deep roster which means low picks are not going to make it, most teams have guys they want to keep. Is there a gentleman's agreement regarding the practice squad that most teams leave other teams PS players mostly alone? Sorta seems that way to me.

 

How many DL are we going to carry? Surprised Vernon is over Harry...Though I thought it hard to tell who was playing better last year between the two. If Harry truly is healed up and in great shape, I think the Bills could carry five DTs....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

So Phillips, ObadA, Sweeney, Hodgins, Fromm, Doyle, Williams and Williams are on the outside looking in as of now.

 

Quite telling actually.

 

I think they'll keep 4 DT so yes, Phillips outside looking in if they really think Zimmer is better now

But there's a lot of pre-season left

Zimmer didn't get a lot of snaps last season - typically 26% to 36% except for last game.   I think Phillips showed more of an upward trend towards the end of the season. 

I expect to see them get a lot of looks during pre-season games.

 

Obada - I think they'll keep 6 DE, so I wouldn't say he's on the outside looking in, but they like Darryl Johnson and he also plays teams.  So there's a lot of pre-season there too

 

Sweeney - they kept 3 TE last season plus Gilliam

 

Kumerow apparently plays ST so Hodgins is going to have to show something there to win that

 

 

Doyle may find himself with an injured thumb or plantar fasciitis and going on IR

 

Antonio Williams, def. on outside looking in unless Moss IRs to start the season

Duke Williams, no surprise, right?

 

I'm not sure what this is "telling" of

 

 

1 hour ago, billybrew1 said:

Interesting they moved Feliciano to LG from RG.... I was hoping Ford would be more athletic and run with the LG spot ....

Feliciano is very accommodating.

You Go, Jon!

Not the most athletic LG but perhaps Ford can crush someone from his RG spot?

Man, I hope Ford is an upgrade! (And a major one at that.)

I can hope, right?

 

So maybe they are trying out different combinations

 

But one of the big deals they made in the off season was how they would have continuity

 

Well, if you mix and match the guards - there goes any continuity

[billybrew1]

That's another weird thing about Ford, he played LG in college.... And now prefers right?

 

Or, is better there? I hope it is because he is so mean and powerful.....

 

Go Bills!

[transplantbillsfan]

Okay... I'm not going to read a ton into the depth chart because there's plenty to quibble with and who knows what's being put out there as extra motivation for some players (Stevenson, for one)...

 

but when I look at our roster position by position... holy crap I'm honestly starting to worry a little about our depth in the secondary specifically!

[maryland-bills-fan]

Somebody commented that this depth chart might be structured to showcase how good a potential trade candidate is.

[Richard Noggin]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Don’t disagree....although I don’t think you are giving Williams enough credit. Thought he was excellent last season..... not extremely confident in either Guard position though. Feliciano is overrated here and got tossed around in the championship game, maybe a full offseason to rehab his pec makes a difference. Ford has been disappointing. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if he develops into a quality starter. I actually think Ike is the better player.....either way, hopefully two guys step up and solidifies the unit inside. 

Agree with your analysis of the guards here. They've (Ford, Feliciano, Boettger) been mostly meh. Still a chance for some improvement, but the Bills lack high-end or even demonstrably average starters at both spots.

 

I keep thinking that Bates could capably play at just about any spot along the line, at least on par with our current crop of OGs. And possibly close to Morse's play at OC. As an OT he's been okay at best in spot duty (better on the right than the left, to my eye). Seems like his versatility is preventing him from serious starting consideration (too much value as a 5-position flex backup?). Or, I suppose, it could be that his ONLY real value IS his position flex (not good enough to start anywhere, but good enough to backup everywhere). Either way, he's a valuable guy on game days. 

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, akcash said:

I think Butler is straight tweeter. Hes not great at either but uses enough of his God given ability to stick around... I feel like Butler got more snaps than Zimmer did down the season. I just feel like they feel a little more comfortable with Butlers combination of size and speed... even if he doesn't reach his full potential. This is my opinion on and it isn't changing. I rewatched most games last year and imo Butler played better than Zimmer. People can hate all they want.

Take it easy there, guy. No need for such drama. You can have an opinion on backup D-linemen without assuming a defensive stance.

 

I, too, wonder if Butler's size and expense gives him a slight advantage over Zimmer in the eyes of McBeane. Beane was in Carolina when they drafted Butler, and he (Butler) DOES have the pedigree GMs often covet. Whereas Zimmer, despite his seriously ELITE athleticism, is always operating from behind. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is the first evidence we have of what the 53 man roster will look like.

 

Notable details:

 

-Starting o-line is Dawkins/Feliciano/Morse/Ford/Williams

 

-Kumerow and Davis are both listed as 2nd string outside WRs to Diggs and Sanders respectively.

 

-Stevenson is behind both Duke Williams and Hodgins. His chance of making the team looks slim.

 

-Breida is 3rd behind Singletary and Moss.

 

-Hollister is 2nd behind Knox.

 

-Hughes and Addison are the starting DEs. 2nd string is Rousseau and Epenesa. 3rd string is Obada and Basham. I see little chance of Addison getting cut as some have predicted.

 

-Harrison Phillips is behind both Zimmer and Butler. I think his roster spot is in jeopardy.

 

-Dodson is listed as Edmunds's backup at MLB. His roster spot looks more secure than I might have thought.

 

-Damar Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson are ahead of Josh Thomas and Tariq Thompson on the depth chart.

WoOt w00t!! Kumerow 4th WR!! Now we got to get Harry in front of Butler

[akcash]

50 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Take it easy there, guy. No need for such drama. You can have an opinion on backup D-linemen without assuming a defensive stance.

 

I, too, wonder if Butler's size and expense gives him a slight advantage over Zimmer in the eyes of McBeane. Beane was in Carolina when they drafted Butler, and he (Butler) DOES have the pedigree GMs often covet. Whereas Zimmer, despite his seriously ELITE athleticism, is always operating from behind. 

Think you took it to the next level guy. I'm just putting my stance out there. Everybody thinks Zimmer is way better than he is. 

[Mountain Man]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

-Stevenson is behind both Duke Williams and Hodgins. His chance of making the team looks slim.

In terms of WR. He is also 2nd for both returner spots, which neither of the above 2 are.