Addison & Butler: just how much do their contracts matter?

[NickelCity]

As we all watch the camp thread in anticipation of hearing about who's flashing and who's not, many of us are focused on the roster bubble and playing the "who do we keep/cut" game. For both DE and DT, roster cut downs are expected to be difficult. Below is the list of players who I think are in contention for roster spots for each position, which I expect is fairly unsurprising.

 

DE:

Hughes

Addison 

Epenesa 

Rousseau

Basham

Obada

Johnson 

 

DT:

Lotulelei

Oliver

Butler

Phillips

Zimmer

 

Assuming we keep 6 DEs and 4 DTs, one player will be cut from each list above. Now, throughout the summer I've heard that Addison and Butler are less likely (or extremely unlikely, depending on who you listen to) to be cut due to their restructured contracts. (1) Just how detrimental to the Bills would cutting these players be, in cap terms? (2) Would cutting one/both be considered controversial within the locker room considering that they were willing to restructure? (3) I'm generally curious just how much faith I should put into the "hard to cut them because of their contracts" observation. Would it be enough to keep them even if they were outperformed by another player? I'm not much of a cap guru, so any insight appreciated. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think we keep 6 DEs and 3 DTs.

 

Toss up with Hughes/Addison. Two aging, expensive vets who’s best years may be in the rear view. Do we cut loose Bam Johnson, a key cog on the ‘teams?

 

Groot, Obada, AJ, and Boogie all have experience rushing from inside, so I see the DTs being Eddy, Star, and Harry. 
 

Zimmer on the Squad with Bam (if they stick with Hughes/Addison

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

I think they'll keep the best team together, regardless of contract situation. 

[TBBills]

Contract doesn't matter, whoever's the best will make the 53.

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Contract doesn't matter, whoever's the best will make the 53.

I think that Special Teams could play a factor.  Farwell mentioned Johnson again and I think the only chance for him to stay on the active roster is if they move on from Taiwan Jones

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

According to Over The Cap, cutting Addison saves nothing. He counts about $8M either way.

It's a little over $2 million savings. I think they keep him unless the rookies just tear up preseason. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's a little over $2 million savings. I think they keep him unless the rookies just tear up preseason. 

Oh you're right I'm looking at pre-June 1

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, NickelCity said:

As we all watch the camp thread in anticipation of hearing about who's flashing and who's not, many of us are focused on the roster bubble and playing the "who do we keep/cut" game. For both DE and DT, roster cut downs are expected to be difficult. Below is the list of players who I think are in contention for roster spots for each position, which I expect is fairly unsurprising.

 

DE:

Hughes

Addison 

Epenesa 

Rousseau

Basham

Obada

Johnson 

 

DT:

Lotulelei

Oliver

Butler

Phillips

Zimmer

 

Assuming we keep 6 DEs and 4 DTs, one player will be cut from each list above. Now, throughout the summer I've heard that Addison and Butler are less likely (or extremely unlikely, depending on who you listen to) to be cut due to their restructured contracts. (1) Just how detrimental to the Bills would cutting these players be, in cap terms?

 

Not detrimental.  They didn't restructure, they took pay cuts.

 

This is the last year on Butler's contract.  He has a cap hit of $5.3M and a dead cap of $3.5M.  Cutting him saves $1.8M

 

Addison has a void year added on to defer $2M his signing bonus into next season.  He has $2M in guaranteed salary of his $4.075M salary.  So cutting him is a "wash".

 

Quote

 (2) Would cutting one/both be considered controversial within the locker room considering that they were willing to restructure?

 

No clue as far as locker room. 

 

Quote

(3) I'm generally curious just how much faith I should put into the "hard to cut them because of their contracts" observation. Would it be enough to keep them even if they were outperformed by another player? I'm not much of a cap guru, so any insight appreciated.

 

I don't think their contracts make them hard to cut per se.  What I can't tell you is what kind of "handshake" guarantees they were offered when they agreed to the pay cuts they took.

 

I don't think Beane/McDermott are going to "bet the season" that the rookies and Obada are ready to "step up"

 

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's a little over $2 million savings. I think they keep him unless the rookies just tear up preseason. 

 

Which site are you looking at?

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not detrimental.  They didn't restructure, they took pay cuts.

 

This is the last year on Butler's contract.  He has a cap hit of $5.3M and a dead cap of $3.5M.  Cutting him saves $1.8M

 

Addison has a void year added on to defer $2M his signing bonus into next season.  He has $2M in guaranteed salary of his $4.075M salary.  So cutting him is a "wash".

 

 

No clue as far as locker room. 

 

 

I don't think their contracts make them hard to cut per se.  What I can't tell you is what kind of "handshake" guarantees they were offered when they agreed to the pay cuts they took.

 

I don't think Beane/McDermott are going to "bet the season" that the rookies and Obada are ready to "step up"

Addison appears to be mentoring the defensive ends in Buffalo. He seems to be the type of leader/mentor they want in the locker room.

 

Plus I am thinking the team is betting on him having a larger impact as a situational player rather than an every down DE.  
 

Cutting Addison would not be consistent with the moves that Beane & McDermott have made over the past few years

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think we keep 6 DEs and 3 DTs.

 

Toss up with Hughes/Addison. Two aging, expensive vets who’s best years may be in the rear view. Do we cut loose Bam Johnson, a key cog on the ‘teams?

 

Groot, Obada, AJ, and Boogie all have experience rushing from inside, so I see the DTs being Eddy, Star, and Harry. 
 

Zimmer on the Squad with Bam (if they stick with Hughes/Addison

 

What are you basing this notion on?

 

Unless things have changed big time, McDermott and Frazier are big believers in a DL rotation and I don't see them going away from that.

 

People seem to have this idea that a guy's ability to rush from inside on a passing down means he can play every down as a DT.  Not so.

 

 

[billsfan89]

I don't think Addison is "safe" at all. I think if Efe comes on strong in camp and Addison isn't showing up I don't necessarily know if they wouldn't cut Addison. Addison saves some cap space by being cut, not a whole lot but some. Butler I think is going to make the roster since it costs the team 600k above his cap number to cut him. 

[billybrew1]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think we keep 6 DEs and 3 DTs.

 

Toss up with Hughes/Addison. Two aging, expensive vets who’s best years may be in the rear view. Do we cut loose Bam Johnson, a key cog on the ‘teams?

 

Groot, Obada, AJ, and Boogie all have experience rushing from inside, so I see the DTs being Eddy, Star, and Harry. 
 

Zimmer on the Squad with Bam (if they stick with Hughes/Addison

When did Daryl Johnson get the name, Bam?

 

first I've seen it...

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

I think that Special Teams could play a factor.  Farwell mentioned Johnson again and I think the only chance for him to stay on the active roster is if they move on from Taiwan Jones

 

They play different roles.  Johnson will not replace Jones as gunner so their fates are not intertwined.

55 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I don't think Addison is "safe" at all. I think if Efe comes on strong in camp and Addison isn't showing up I don't necessarily know if they wouldn't cut Addison. Addison saves some cap space by being cut, not a whole lot but some. Butler I think is going to make the roster since it costs the team 600k above his cap number to cut him. 

 

Some of spare cap space created may be so Bills can cut some players with cap hits.

[BillsFanForever19]

I think the bigger thing with these two is that they both were approached by Beane and told that if they'd like to stay, they'd have to take a pay cut. Both agreed to it. Beane has never told a player that they can stay if they take a pay cut and released them. Not even Tyler Kroft who barely dressed last season.

 

For a regime that places a large emphasis on the team believing in the process and having high morale in the locker room - I believe that sticking to their word is important to this end. I think it would send a negative message for them to make players take pay cuts to stay and then say "thanks for doing that, but we're releasing you anyways and doing so after training camp where it will be difficult to find a gig and you'll be playing catch up all year".

 

Long story short, while it is possible for them to do it - it would be the first time.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not detrimental.  They didn't restructure, they took pay cuts.

 

This is the last year on Butler's contract.  He has a cap hit of $5.3M and a dead cap of $3.5M.  Cutting him saves $1.8M

 

Addison has a void year added on to defer $2M his signing bonus into next season.  He has $2M in guaranteed salary of his $4.075M salary.  So cutting him is a "wash".

 

 

No clue as far as locker room. 

 

 

I don't think their contracts make them hard to cut per se.  What I can't tell you is what kind of "handshake" guarantees they were offered when they agreed to the pay cuts they took.

 

I don't think Beane/McDermott are going to "bet the season" that the rookies and Obada are ready to "step up"

 

 

Which site are you looking at?

 

They took paycuts in return for guaranteed contracts

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

They took paycuts in return for guaranteed contracts

 

I agree.  Butler stands to make more money getting cut at the end of camp then he would of made getting cut at the start of the year.

I see no "guaranteed to make the team" in that.  IMO.

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

Butler I think is going to make the roster since it costs the team 600k above his cap number to cut him. 

 

An example of how one of the contracts influences the perception of likelihood of making the team. Now, I tend to think that 600k is so minor as to not matter, but perhaps you're right.

 

9 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I think the bigger thing with these two is that they both were approached by Beane and told that if they'd like to stay, they'd have to take a pay cut. Both agreed to it. Beane has never told a player that they can stay if they take a pay cut and released them. Not even Tyler Kroft who barely dressed last season.

 

For a regime that places a large emphasis on the team believing in the process and having high morale in the locker room - I believe that sticking to their word is important to this end. I think it would send a negative message for them to make players take pay cuts to stay and then say "thanks for doing that, but we're releasing you anyways and doing so after training camp where it will be difficult to find a gig and you'll be playing catch up all year".

 

Long story short, while it is possible for them to do it - it would be the first time.

 

Thanks for the background here. I thought there might be something to the lockerroom/buy-in/process aspect, but I hadn't combed through previous examples.

 

--

 

My own prediction for DT: Zimmer makes the roster and Butler is cut.

 

DE: honest to god I don't know. But I'm a believer in Obada and I think Johnson is a core STer, which makes it more difficult. I'd hate to lose Obada in favor of Addison but I'll admit to being biased toward the "potential".

[billybrew1]

The DL cuts will be very interesting come September.  Of course, all the cuts will be but DL the most I think. What do we do about Fromm? Some have Brenda as a lock but I don't. Jaquan Johnson has a case of the toos.... Too short, too light, too slow, yet he is a defensive genius with super quick play recognition, is that enough to take Marlowe's job? I think it is but he is no lock. Wildgoose? What did McD see in him? Why haven't we signed a vet to replace Norman as we always brought a vet in under McD? I think it will be weird if he makes the 53.... It sure would help things if the Bills could get by with five LBs but who does that? LBs are generally core players on teams. Are our athletic DEs athletic enough to play STs well? I can't see carrying ten DL but I also can't see waiving any of those ten so something has to give. No, I don't buy into the three DT theory. Most teams we play will try to control the clock by running the ball and I don't like any of our DTs as a great run stopper, we definitely need four. Hard to imagine the Bills as a team you don't want to get in a scoring race with but I count two teams on our schedule that would be OK with that; KC and Tampa. The rest are going to try to run it a lot. NE in particular but far from the only one. When we need our run game to shine is when we take big leads. Keep our QBs (yes, both) healthy and not dropping back too often. We need a better run game to ice games. We're still going to have to pass, but we need to run it at least 50% once we're up, imho...I can envision Tribusky coming in much than Barkley or most back up QBs. Trust in Tribusky I say. Get JA off the field. We have him, play him. Get up by 21? send in Tribusky.  Imho, we promised not to trade him, but man, if we could get a second or even more, like a second and a fifth, that would make us players in next year's draft. Either way the Bills are huge winners for signing him. We could play him vs. Atlanta.... or just let Josh play a quarter....We could play him differently than any back up in a long time. Maybe since Daryl Lamoniica!  Cool....

im not suggesting to "try" another QB just to play him when we take a substantial lead. That's gonna happen a lot, yes? I wanted JA out of the game quite a bit last season but Barkley couldn't be trusted.....Play him when we can or trade him I say!

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

I’m surprised no one said trade. For Addison you get 6 mil this year with another 2 mil dead cap this year and for butler you get 4 mil. If we keep everyone healthy I am taking anything I can get for these two. 
 

https://overthecap.com/player/mario-addison/1185/
 

https://overthecap.com/player/vernon-butler/4742/

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I think the bigger thing with these two is that they both were approached by Beane and told that if they'd like to stay, they'd have to take a pay cut. Both agreed to it. Beane has never told a player that they can stay if they take a pay cut and released them. Not even Tyler Kroft who barely dressed last season.

 

For a regime that places a large emphasis on the team believing in the process and having high morale in the locker room - I believe that sticking to their word is important to this end. I think it would send a negative message for them to make players take pay cuts to stay and then say "thanks for doing that, but we're releasing you anyways and doing so after training camp where it will be difficult to find a gig and you'll be playing catch up all year".

 

Long story short, while it is possible for them to do it - it would be the first time.

Dimarco?  He was a bit dinged up but not sure if it counts. Also he was on the leadership council. 
 

confirmed 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/23/buffalo-bills-restructure-patrick-dimarco-contract/amp/

Edited August 6, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[BillsFanForever19]

16 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Dimarco?  He was a bit dinged up but not sure if it counts. Also he was on the leadership council. 

 

confirmed 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/23/buffalo-bills-restructure-patrick-dimarco-contract/amp/

 

He was placed on Injured Reserve. Was only released on a mutually agreed upon settlement deal and he later retired. That's not the same thing. I'd even argue this further proves my point because they were willing to keep him on the payroll even though he was shot and only released him after they paid him. And it was only because the guy was toast. Which is not the case with Addison and Butler.

Edited August 6, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It's a little over $2 million savings. I think they keep him unless the rookies just tear up preseason. 

 

Yea post 1 June according to Spotrac Addison saves $2.2m and Butler saves nothing. 

[H2o]

If Addison and Butler aren't viewed as better than the other guys then they will be traded or released outright. Beane has shown that he is not afraid to do that in his time here. It's part of the business and his business is about fielding the best team that gives us a chance to win. The cap hits are already accounted for and we have $9M+ in space at the moment. There is minimal impact to the 2022 cap if that is the way they decide to go as well. No roster spot is guaranteed for either player.  

[Matt_In_NH]

It looks like there would be a negative cap hit with Addison.  Could save 1.8ish million by cutting Butler. Given the numbers on the DL I could see Butler getting cut.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

11 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think we keep 6 DEs and 3 DTs.

 

Toss up with Hughes/Addison. Two aging, expensive vets who’s best years may be in the rear view. Do we cut loose Bam Johnson, a key cog on the ‘teams?

 

Groot, Obada, AJ, and Boogie all have experience rushing from inside, so I see the DTs being Eddy, Star, and Harry. 
 

Zimmer on the Squad with Bam (if they stick with Hughes/Addison

If you listened to Coach the other day, there's no way they're cutting Zimmer

10 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Addison appears to be mentoring the defensive ends in Buffalo. He seems to be the type of leader/mentor they want in the locker room.

 

Plus I am thinking the team is betting on him having a larger impact as a situational player rather than an every down DE.  
 

Cutting Addison would not be consistent with the moves that Beane & McDermott have made over the past few years

 

So they're cutting Hughes then?

[Rochesterfan]

 

I still believe both Butler and Addison are big time McDermott guys and if the expanded PS with extra veterans is a go as I believe it is.  I could see Beane and McD talking to 1 or both of these veteran guys and saying we want you around for leadership and to help mentor and we don’t think we can sneak those guys through - would you be willing to hit the PS and be available for call ups in specific situations?

 

They both got guaranteed money already and likely neither would get significant offers from other teams (and if they do - they can go with the teams blessings) - we will have a spot for you and maybe get some offsets back.  They are still part of an Super Bowl caliber team with potential to get them rings and most importantly if the rules sound as similar as last year - they can get a few call ups to really come in full tilt and then get a couple weeks of recovery time.

 

I think the Bills do not want to lose their experience, but that would give them a way of keeping the young guys protected and maintain their experience around those guys.  Plus they have a relationship with Beane and McD - that can help in these cases and if either gets poached - it does not kill you long term.

[Craig Oi]

My thoughts regarding the locker room and topic. It's clear to me that they value the "little guy" that comes out of obscurity and performs. If "little guy"  Zimmer clearly outperforms Butler and gets cut because of a contract , how well does that go over? To further my point we are clearly keeping all the kids and if Obada clearly is their 4th best DE on the team. Addison is the leader it appears, Johnson has value on teams and then there's Hughes who is not getting sneaked on the practice squad and  still has some trade value. Do we roll with 5 linebackers cut Taiwan and keep him too? That's 12 DL if you keep them all, the best option in my opinion is trade Hughes and cut Butler. 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Craig Oi

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

13 minutes ago, Craig Oi said:

My thoughts regarding the locker room and topic. It's clear to me that they value the "little guy" that comes out of obscurity and performs. If a guy little Zimmer clearly outperforms Butler and gets cut because of a contract , how well does that go over? To further my point we are clearly keeping all the kids and if Obada clearly is their 4th best DE on the team. Addison is the leader it appears, Johnson has value on teams and then there's Hughes who is not getting sneaked on the practice squad and  still has some trade value. Do we roll with 5 linebackers cut Taiwan and keep him too? That's 12 DL if you keep them all, the best option in my opinion is trade Hughes and cut Butler. 

They're not keeping more than 9 DL. It used to always be 8 every year if you recall.

 

When I did my roster I cut Butler, H. Phillips and D. Johnson, keeping six DEs and only three dedicated DTs. I think they'd like to keep Harrison Phillips because he's bigger than the others but I don't know who they cut to do it. Addison may be most likely but I think they like having him around. DL is finally fun to follow.

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, H2o said:

If Addison and Butler aren't viewed as better than the other guys then they will be traded or released outright. Beane has shown that he is not afraid to do that in his time here. It's part of the business and his business is about fielding the best team that gives us a chance to win.

 

This may be how you believe a franchise should be run. But saying that Beane has proven he's not afraid to cut a player outright that he's asked to take a pay cut to stay is flat out false. He's cut guys like McCoy, sure. But that's because he wouldn't take a paycut or wasn't asked to.

 

As I've stated in my earlier posts in this thread, he's never done it. Not even fringe players like Kroft who we barely dressed. Even DiMarco was kept on the payroll on IR and wasn't released without an agreed upon settlement before his retirement.

 

Is it possible? Yes. But again, it would be the very first time he's done it and I think there's a reason he hasn't. It's a bad look to the locker room to tell a player if he wants to stay he has to take a paycut and then cut them anyways before the start of the season, when it's difficult to latch on to a new team and be productive.

Edited August 6, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

21 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

I’m surprised no one said trade. For Addison you get 6 mil this year with another 2 mil dead cap this year and for butler you get 4 mil. If we keep everyone healthy I am taking anything I can get for these two. 
 

https://overthecap.com/player/mario-addison/1185/
 

https://overthecap.com/player/vernon-butler/4742/

Dimarco?  He was a bit dinged up but not sure if it counts. Also he was on the leadership council. 
 

confirmed 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/23/buffalo-bills-restructure-patrick-dimarco-contract/amp/

 

 

With their contracts and age, can't see a trade happening unless the Bills throw in a draft pick or something of value to get a team to take on these contracts.  That just rarely happens in the NFL.

 

 

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

This may be how you believe a franchise should be run. But saying that Beane has proven he's not afraid to cut a player outright that he's asked to take a pay cut to stay is flat out false. He's cut guys like McCoy, sure. But that's because he wouldn't take a paycut or wasn't asked to.

 

As I've stated in my earlier posts in this thread, he's never done it. Not even fringe players like Kroft who we barely dressed. Even DiMarco was kept on the payroll on IR and wasn't released without an agreed upon settlement before his retirement.

 

Is it possible? Yes. But again, it would be the very first time he's done it and I think there's a reason he hasn't. It's a bad look to the locker room to tell a player if he wants to stay he has to take a paycut and then cut them anyways before the start of the season, when it's difficult to latch on to a new team and be productive.

 

Beane has never done it prior, but has there been a need?  What players in the past three years took a pay cut and got guaranteed money but was also in the position where there was serious discussion of whether he should be cut.  Prior to last year the cupboard was pretty bare so hard to believe there were many vets in danger of being cut to start with.   If there were, I don't recall the names.

 

It's not like these guys weren't given anything for their troubles, they both got guaranteed money which they still keep if cut and can sign somewhere else for more money.

 

To me it seems hard for the Bills to improve in 2021 and not hurt themselves in 2022 and beyond without making some more aggressive type moves.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

The DL cuts will be very interesting come September.  Of course, all the cuts will be but DL the most I think. What do we do about Fromm?

 

Practice squad

 

23 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

Some have Brenda as a lock but I don't.

 

Who is Brenda?

 

 

23 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

Jaquan Johnson has a case of the toos.... Too short, too light, too slow, yet he is a defensive genius with super quick play recognition, is that enough to take Marlowe's job?

 

Marlowe was a free agent and was signed by the Lions.   I don't think the Bills let him walk if they don't have confidence in Jaquan Johnson.

 

The other Safeties on the roster are 2nd year player Josh Thomas and two rookies Damar Hamlin and Tariq Thompson.  I don't think they'd be counting on them to fill in for Poyer or Hyde.

 

It would be easier to respond to the rest of your post if you'd put in some return and break it up into more sentences.  Not intending to pick on you, just factual commentary that I find it difficult to read and what would help make it easier.

 

12 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

They're not keeping more than 9 DL. It used to always be 8 every year if you recall.

 

When I did my roster I cut Butler, H. Phillips and D. Johnson, keeping six DEs and only three dedicated DTs. I think they'd like to keep Harrison Phillips because he's bigger than the others but I don't know who they cut to do it. Addison may be most likely but I think they like having him around. DL is finally fun to follow.

 

Last year the Bills kept 9 DL.  They kept 10 OL.  I'm not going to say they won't keep more than 9.

 

I think the likelihood they keep 3 DT is very low.  McDermott loves his DL rotation, especially at DT.

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

With their contracts and age, can't see a trade happening unless the Bills throw in a draft pick or something of value to get a team to take on these contracts.  That just rarely happens in the NFL.

 

 

 

Beane has never done it prior, but has there been a need?  What players in the past three years took a pay cut and got guaranteed money but was also in the position where there was serious discussion of whether he should be cut.  Prior to last year the cupboard was pretty bare so hard to believe there were many vets in danger of being cut to start with.   If there were, I don't recall the names.

 

See: Kroft, Tyler

 

And who is having serious discussions that either should be cut, outside of a vocal minority in the fan base? Beane and McDermott continue to speak very highly of Addison. 

 

If either were to be cut, given their stature with the team, it would have happened a few months back to save the cap space and replace them instead of holding on to them with restructures.

Edited August 7, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 8/5/2021 at 5:56 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

People seem to have this idea that a guy's ability to rush from inside on a passing down means he can play every down as a DT.  Not so.

 

 

True. But it is a passing league these days and seemingly more so every year. So damn near every down is a passing down. 

 

Strange coincidence that our first two draft picks are experienced in rushing from both the outside and inside. 

I know I would hate to see Hughes as a cap casualty.  I do get the feeling the young guys are going to have him on the bench a lot more this year though. But regardless of the money I rather keep Hughes and let him finish out his contract this year and give it a go for a Super Bowl. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

 

Last year the Bills kept 9 DL.  They kept 10 OL.  I'm not going to say they won't keep more than 9.

 

I think the likelihood they keep 3 DT is very low.  McDermott loves his DL rotation, especially at DT.

I hear you, I just figured all those DEs can rotate at 3T. He'd still have as many 3Ts as ever.

Edited August 7, 2021 by 2020 Our Year For Sure

[SCBills]

How is Zimmer against the run?  
 

I know the Bills like him, but isn’t he an undersized DT?

 

We already have one of those in Oliver. 
 

Given the fact we have Hughes, Addison, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham and potentially Obada - id rather go with those 6 and keep Butler or Harry as a bigger body DT for run fits, given 4 of our DE’s can flip inside on passing downs. 
 

Edited August 7, 2021 by SCBills

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

They're not keeping more than 9 DL. It used to always be 8 every year if you recall.

 

When I did my roster I cut Butler, H. Phillips and D. Johnson, keeping six DEs and only three dedicated DTs. I think they'd like to keep Harrison Phillips because he's bigger than the others but I don't know who they cut to do it. Addison may be most likely but I think they like having him around. DL is finally fun to follow.

 

I don't think they will only keep 3 DTs. I know some of the outside guys can reduce down in pass rush situations but the way they rotate their Dline even on early downs they need 4. 

3 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I hear you, I just figured all those DEs can rotate at 3T. He'd still have as many 3Ts as ever.

 

But you don't want Rousseau or Obada at 3T on 1st or 2nd down. They'd just run right at them. Those DEs who can come inside are guys who can come inside on obvious passing downs. Not on early downs.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think they will only keep 3 DTs. I know some of the outside guys can reduce down in pass rush situations but the way they rotate their Dline even on early downs they need 4. 

 

But you don't want Rousseau or Obada at 3T on 1st or 2nd down. They'd just run right at them. Those DEs who can come inside are guys who can come inside on obvious passing downs. Not on early downs.

I'm curious, what's being lost there if it's say Obada instead of Oliver? They talk about how powerful Obada is.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I'm curious, what's being lost there if it's say Obada instead of Oliver? They talk about how powerful Obada is.

 

The technique you have to play with anchoring the run in the interior is completely different to the technique to rush the passer. Add to that Oliver is "undersized" and you are taking another 20-25lbs off him to Obada. 

 

The one guy I think could be more of a genuine DE/DT in time is Basham. I could see the Bills developing him in the role they brought Quinton Jefferson in to do last year where he is a genuine inside/outside flex. I just think that is a LOT to ask of a rookie. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Maybe. I still don't think they keep 10 DL for 4 spots. Quite the race here

[Victory Formation]

On 8/5/2021 at 8:30 PM, JohnNord said:

I think that Special Teams could play a factor.  Farwell mentioned Johnson again and I think the only chance for him to stay on the active roster is if they move on from Taiwan Jones

I think Daryl Johnson has a chance at becoming a good backup at DE. I hope they don’t cut him.

[Rochesterfan]

It will be interesting with the note that Butler was a head injury today.  Does that linger and give the Bills a potential injury list guy to protect someone? 
 

Things to watch for in his recovery.