EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[May Day 10]

48 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The Pegulas have been battling local media since they arrived. Local media and fans were all over them for keeping Regier and Ruff after they just made the playoffs. 

 

Then the whole tank disaster happened which fans and most media supported. A 2-3 year stretch of losing to draft high. People talk about 10 years but when you dismantle everything just to lose for multiple years it's difficult to rebuild. There were no draft picks developing properly. Then when we drafted Eichel there was no organizational depth. 

 

No one wants to admit how much of a failure the tank was. Set the organization back. 

Yes it was. Expensive also. 

I am. I don't boo the team. 

I wouldn't be shocked. The Sabres will likely leave Buffalo if sold. 

 

The problem with the 'tank' wasn't the actual 'tank'/tear down.  It was the failure to do so without any sort of focused and consistent management.

 

They started out with Regier and Ruff.  Fired Ruff early in a shortened season, after an extended lockout where you could have enjoyed better preparedness.  Regier hired someone completely unqualified in Ron Rolston.  That seems to be when the 'tank' was adopted by the team

 

Then they fired Regier and Rolson in November of a season, blowing that previous offseason.  Hiring a green President with no GM (but had Craig Patrick in his corner as a consultant), and a crowd-pleaser in Nolan as coach

 

Then, a few months later, a silly scuffle (I have heard there was constant friction between Kim and LaFontaine that blew up) you President resigns.  The steering wheel was handed to a GM who appears to be on the Spectrum and clearly had little to no people skills and just needed to be out scouting.  I feel like LaFontaine and Patrick could have/would have served as a counter-balance to Murray and that was the plan.  

 

Then, the quick send off of Ted Nolan (who actually had the tank teams fighting on the same side against a common enemy (the tank/fans).  Going all-in for Babcock, and settling for Dan Bylsma who came with many warning signs.  

 

Held onto Murray too long.  He cleared out the embarrassment of riches they had amassed during the tank and had little to show for it.  Terrible trades and asset management.  Also exposed the new franchise players to guys like Evander Kane, Bogosian, and Lehner right out of the box.  Murray thought that instead of snorting coke, finding women, and playing video games, the young guys would follow the boring married guys like Gionta and Gorges.

 

There was always this disjointed thing, with the smell of dysfunction all over it.  Also worth mentioning they decided to dump one of the actually popular things in the organization in Ted Black for Russ Brandon.

 

 

Since Murray, the Pegulas have rejected experience and seeking help.  They have gone with first timers, circular management structures, and they have just spun their tires deeper in the mud, every day finding a new rock-bottom.  

Edited August 19, 2021 by May Day 10

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

 

I have heard from a decent source that the Sabres are for sale

 

Tim Graham continues to debunk this via his platform in The Athletic.

[LabattBlue]

What the Pegula’s have done to the Sabres franchise is embarrassing, and no matter how much success the Bills have going forward, they will still be a joke from an NHL perspective. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

4 minutes ago, BTB said:

What the Pegula’s have done to the Sabres franchise is embarrassing, and no matter how much success the Bills have going forward, they will still be a joke from an NHL perspective. 

While it’s definitely been a major rough time for the Sabres I do believe they will get better.

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

While it’s definitely been a major rough time for the Sabres I do believe they will get better.

well, they can’t get much worse!

[DrDawkinstein]

28 minutes ago, BTB said:

What the Pegula’s have done to the Sabres franchise is embarrassing, and no matter how much success the Bills have going forward, they will still be a joke from an NHL perspective. 

 

As long as the Bills win a Super Bowl, I dont care what happens to the Sabres. Worth the trade off.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Why are fans so angry at the Pegulas? It's the weirdest fan anger towards an owner I've ever seen. They've dropped so much money into Western New York. 

 

 

I don’t have faith in Buffalo/New York politicians to get real money like the Pegulas are asking.

 

Mark Polacartz acts like he is King of Erie County and will not get out of the way if it comes to mandatory taxes.

 

Also, look at the City of Buffalo and the development of the water front.

 

Squabbling, delays, fighting about putting museum on the property, until finally the developers just left the project.

 

Does local government, and NYS at large have the ability to deliver?

 

The NFL going back to Goodell and Ralph meeting up years ago have not changed their position: get a new stadium or else. They pulled the same thing in Minnesota and San Diego. 

[davefan66]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don’t have faith in Buffalo/New York politicians to get real money like the Pegulas are asking.

 

Mark Polacartz acts like he is King of Erie County and will not get out of the way if it comes to mandatory taxes.

 

Also, look at the City of Buffalo and the development of the water front.

 

Squabbling, delays, fighting about putting museum on the property, until finally the developers just left the project.

 

Does local government, and NYS at large have the ability to deliver?

 

The NFL going back to Goodell and Ralph meeting up years ago have not changed their position: get a new stadium or else. They pulled the same thing in Minnesota and San Diego. 

 

I have real concern a deal won’t get done.  Covid, economy and a change in governor may be too much to overcome to get a deal done.

 

Bills need to pony up some money, or nothing will get done.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

As long as the Bills win a Super Bowl, I dont care what happens to the Sabres. Worth the trade off.

Agree 

 

I love the sabres but the bills were everything growing up in buffalo 

 

One before my father passes so we can share it together and life will be complete

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Agree 

 

I love the sabres but the bills were everything growing up in buffalo 

 

One before my father passes so we can share it together and life will be complete

I was just saying the same thing the other day. Lost our Mom a few years back, but would love to get one for our Dad.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was just saying the same thing the other day. Lost our Mom a few years back, but would love to get one for our Dad.

It's coming my friend 

 

It's coming... I think the city wants it for our elder generation who went through it all more than anything 

 

And it's going to make it even sweeter

 

 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

19 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They've dumped a lot of money into the city and likely didn't see much of a return. Bad investments. 

 

Not arguing here just curious because I'm from Rochester so don't see stuff like that...what have they put money into that failed?

[Greg S]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's coming my friend 

 

It's coming... I think the city wants it for our elder generation who went through it all more than anything 

 

And it's going to make it even sweeter

 

 

 

If the Bills win the Super Bowl I will drive up to Buffalo from NJ for the celebration which would be epic. In NYC they celebrate NY teams winning with a ride down Broadway thru Manhattan. I wonder what kind of celebration/party Buffalo would give the Bills?

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

4 hours ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

Not arguing here just curious because I'm from Rochester so don't see stuff like that...what have they put money into that failed?

 

Look up the Buffalo Billion and related scandals, err news. While it's true Rochester has not seen as much reinvestment or public/private efforts our area has it's share of red herrings, waste and poor local leadership. NYS seems to specialize in it.

 

A few Rochester area examples of general leadership failure and waste since the thread has mentioned leadership/ tax investment/ public private cooperation

 

High Falls Entertainment District

Empire United Soccer Complex Failure (aka Marina Soccer Stadium)- Rhinos last played in 2017 and have abandoned the stadium

I-Square investment/ failure/ scandal (Irondequoit)

Performing Arts Center/ Parcel 5

Parcel 2 and Parcel 5 in general

half @ssed fill in project and urban planning of the inner loop

The current Genesee River 'beautification' pork project

Medley Center

it took 10-15(?) years to build a new bus terminal, and that is located where it ties up traffic on St. Paul and Clinton avenues, and was done half @ssed

 

Rochester and Buffalo are trying, and showing really good resiliency, but the leadership from the localities and county up to Albany is a wreck and can't help but get in the way of everything.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[LeGOATski]

Nothing new from ESPN, but gets me kind of excited to see the new stadium plans, whenever that finally happens.

[LeGOATski]

They definitely need to make use of ETFE panels. All the new stadiums are taking advantage of it. 

 

Imagine having the outside of the stadium lit up in Bills colors on gameday. Or all white on a snow day. Or a Zubaz pattern 😆

 

[Doc Brown]

On 8/19/2021 at 6:22 AM, Rochesterfan said:

This is especially confusing to me because the choice that was leaked: Open air and in OP both are choices that benefit the fans over the owner.

That's the cheapest possible way they could build a new stadium so it benefits the owners in that regard.  The myopic decision of an outdoor stadium will be the biggest regret when we look back at this process 30 years from now.

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

That's the cheapest possible way they could build a new stadium so it benefits the owners in that regard.  The myopic decision of an outdoor stadium will be the biggest regret when we look back at this process 30 years from now.

Yeah, because we'll all be whiny old geezers by then, who don't want to sit outside.

[NobesBLO13]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, because we'll all be whiny old geezers by then, who don't want to sit outside.

That describes me perfectly right now and I’m 37.

[Bad Things]

17 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

They definitely need to make use of ETFE panels. All the new stadiums are taking advantage of it. 

 

Imagine having the outside of the stadium lit up in Bills colors on gameday. Or all white on a snow day. Or a Zubaz pattern 😆

 

In Orchard Park?  🤭

 

How much do you think the extra cost would be?

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, Bad Things said:

In Orchard Park?  🤭

 

How much do you think the extra cost would be?

I don't think it's super expensive. I assume the 4 or 5 most recent NFL stadiums have used it because it's become more affordable and applicable. However, the stuff's been around for like 30+ years. I'm not envisioning it being used for 100% of the outside and look like bubble wrap, but it could be heavily incorporated.

[ndirish1978]

Hatred for the Pegulas is 100% due to the Sabres. Their incredibly mismanaged handling of the team, coupled with the incredibly tone-deaf internal statements made to employees in that organization about "maintaining lifestyle" effectively turned all the hockey fans in the area against them. The hockey media tries their best to maintain the antagonistic relationship between fans and players too. Problem is that hatred is completely misplaced here, as the football team has competent leadership and is a good product on the field. The leaked report claiming the Pegulas wanted 100% publicly financed stadium + money for redoing the Sabres facilities was completely false and obviously leaked from a party hoping to turn the public against the ownership. 

[Doc Brown]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, because we'll all be whiny old geezers by then, who don't want to sit outside.

I'm getting there.  The way the league is expanding the number of games means we're going to get more home games in December and January.  The home viewing experience will continue to get better.  The combination of wind off the lake and cold winter temperatures makes for the worst weather conditions of any franchise in the league.  When this team gets back to mediocre where going to see a lot of empty seats again in December and January.  Not to mention they'll have more trouble with season ticket sales and attracting free agents.

[LabattBlue]

26 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

They definitely need to make use of ETFE panels. All the new stadiums are taking advantage of it. 

 

Imagine having the outside of the stadium lit up in Bills colors on gameday. Or all white on a snow day. Or a Zubaz pattern 😆

 

This is exactly the kind of thing I expect(useless bells and whistles), and will be a huge waste of money as opposed to building a stadium with a fixed roof. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Welp, I'm gonna take them at their (now repeated) word and buy in on the stadium staying in OP. Surprised. Disappointed (for Buffalo). But hey, it means we're more likely to keep tailgating, so fine.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm getting there.  The way the league is expanding the number of games means we're going to get more home games in December and January.  The home viewing experience will continue to get better.  The combination of wind off the lake and cold winter temperatures makes for the worst weather conditions of any franchise in the league.  When this team gets back to mediocre where going to see a lot of empty seats again in December and January.  Not to mention they'll have more trouble with season ticket sales and attracting free agents.

Thankfully, Buffalo has better fans than that. I mean, look at Miami and Jax. They can't get fans in there even when the weather is beautiful... You're overreacting with the concerns about weather and fans. Even during the drought years, Buffalo was fine.

 

As far as cost for new stadiums go, the Pegula proposal is actually relatively low,  so I don't believe they'll be pricing fans out. People fear the worst, but the Pegula plan is to be cost effective and keep the place rocking and roaring like it's always been.

[LeGOATski]

7 minutes ago, BTB said:

This is exactly the kind of thing I expect(useless bells and whistles), and will be a huge waste of money as opposed to building a stadium with a fixed roof. 

A fixed roof is a waste of money. Might as well put that money into something else or cut the extra cost altogether.

[LabattBlue]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Ever think they don't want a roof , and the majority don't either

 

Buffalonians don't cry about the weather .. when you hit an old age like my father you just don't go to cold games.. a dome is anti buffalo

Don’t take your opinion and automatically assume that the “majority” don’t want a fixed roof stadium.  Do you have numbers to back it up?

 

Perfect example...the comeback game.  Blacked out because it wasn’t sold out.  Where were all the diehards that January that absolutely love outside football in the middle of winter?

14 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

A fixed roof is a waste of money. Might as well put that money into something else or cut the extra cost altogether.

Explain how it is a waste of money? 

Edited August 20, 2021 by BTB

[PrimeTime101]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Ever think they don't want a roof , and the majority don't either

 

Buffalonians don't cry about the weather .. when you hit an old age like my father you just don't go to cold games or embrace it with the fans.. a dome is anti buffalo

the majority don't want a roof? Many polls have been made on that topic and it is pretty split down the middle.

[LabattBlue]

Just now, PrimeTime101 said:

the majority don't want a roof? Many polls have been made on that topic and it is pretty split down the middle.

I’ll wait to see the results of these “many polls”.  

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, BTB said:

Explain how it is a waste of money? 

They don't need a roof at all.

 

[LabattBlue]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

They don't need a roof at all.

 

You must have been your HS debate team captain. 😂

Edited August 20, 2021 by BTB

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Because Jim Kelly wasn't playing lol and Bills fans are more fickle than you think 

 

Our fans are passionate but we don't sell out every game historically... And we've sold out plenty of cold games lol from the rock pile on

 

Cleveland, rust belt , no dome.. Pitt , rust belt, no dome... Philadelphia, rust belt , no dome , GB , blue collar , no dome, NE , in New England , no dome 

 

Buffalo is as blue collar if not more than all of them.. and the city embraces the elements  

 

Are there thousands or even 30-40k that would like a dome? Sure 

 

But there's hundreds of thousands of people in the city who embrace the elements.. and another hundred thousand in the suburbs

 

For as much as the weather effects our team, it effects the other team more because they don't have Josh Allen.. same in the Kelly days.. and the Kemp , lamonica days  

 

Buffalo's a tough city, we embrace adverse conditions and always have

 

 

 

 

When you get on one of your exaggeration rides, there is no arguing with you. I will move on. 
 

PS Buffalo hasn’t been a blue collar city for at least three decades...maybe more. 😉

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

That's the cheapest possible way they could build a new stadium so it benefits the owners in that regard.  The myopic decision of an outdoor stadium will be the biggest regret when we look back at this process 30 years from now.

 

I agree, but the fans wanted open air and OP because cost and Tailgating were cited in multiple studies as the top things fans wanted.

 

For the city of Buffalo, for the long term enjoyment, and the development of the area - it is by far the most short sighted decision as basically you are replacing one with another and there is little benefit.

 

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

55 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

the majority don't want a roof? Many polls have been made on that topic and it is pretty split down the middle.

 

25 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Because Jim Kelly wasn't playing lol and Bills fans are more fickle than you think 

 

Our fans are passionate but we don't sell out every game historically... And we've sold out plenty of cold games lol from the rock pile on

 

Cleveland, rust belt , no dome.. Pitt , rust belt, no dome... Philadelphia, rust belt , no dome , GB , blue collar , no dome, NE , in New England , no dome 

 

Buffalo is as blue collar if not more than all of them.. and the city embraces the elements  

 

Are there thousands or even 30-40k that would like a dome? Sure 

 

But there's hundreds of thousands of people in the city who embrace the elements.. and another hundred thousand in the suburbs

 

For as much as the weather effects our team, it effects the other team more because they don't have Josh Allen.. same in the Kelly days.. and the Kemp , lamonica days  

 

Buffalo's a tough city, we embrace adverse conditions and always have

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you are correct it is about a 50/50 mix of people wanting fixed roof and people wanting open air. It bounces a bit back and forth either way.

 

As to the idea that we have sold out plenty of games even during the drought - that is just crazy talk.

 

The running joke for most of the early 2000’s - was the cost of Bills tickets on the resale market starting in November.  Most years you could get resale tickets on Stub Hub for under $5 a ticket.  
 

The Comeback game wasn’t the only late season game during the Super Bowl run that didn’t sell out - it was quite common with Ralph having to by up 2-3000 tickets and give them away.

 

The other misconceptions is that the weather effects other teams more - that is a false narrative- the weather makes the 2 teams more closely matched because each team loses the ability to play the game to the best of their ability.  The wind in the Ravens game basically kept the Ravens in the game as teams only moved the ball going in 1 direction.  
 

Bad weather/windy games help strong running teams and hurt passing teams and if we want to have an elite offense built on Josh Allen’s arm - we should be doing everything to maximize that.  Yes he can throw the better and farther than most, but if the wind is causing issues with every throw going in one direction a team built like the Pats is going to have a huge advantage coming into OP late in the year.  The same thing goes for a team like Cleveland or Tennessee in the playoffs - if we have home field and the weather is crap - we hamper our own ability - while enhancing others.

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

According to the Patriots* fan forum, New York State, and Buffalo are broke, and there is no way a new stadium is going to be built anywhere in WNY, and the Pegula's are definitely going to move the Bills, and we will all be very sad.

 

Also, the "jury is still out" on Josh Allen, and now that we overpaid him, he's not going to try hard anymore, and will regress, and even if he doesn't, he's going to get injured because he's a "running quarterback," and boy are we gonna regret all that guaranteed money.

[BuffaloBills1998]

11 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

According to the Patriots* fan forum, New York State, and Buffalo are broke, and there is no way a new stadium is going to be built anywhere in WNY, and the Pegula's are definitely going to move the Bills, and we will all be very sad.

 

Also, the "jury is still out" on Josh Allen, and now that we overpaid him, he's not going to try hard anymore, and will regress, and even if he doesn't, he's going to get injured because he's a "running quarterback," and boy are we gonna regret all that guaranteed money.

The patriots fan forum ?? Lol. People actually read that forum🤣🤣😂😂. 

[Rocky Landing]

56 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

The patriots fan forum ?? Lol. People actually read that forum🤣🤣😂😂. 

I've really been paying attention to the forums for all three of our divisions rivals. It's been interesting to get a bead on other fan's perceptions. And, they pay a lot of attention to the practices, so it can be informative. The Dolphins forum has been super active, and there seems to be a lot of optimism in Miami. Rightfully so, I'd say. Some of the clips of Waddle are especially impressive. That dude is going to ball.

 

The Jets forum, as to be expected, has become a chronicle of sadness. 

 

The Patriots* forum is as obnoxious as ever. It's sort of the Breitbart comments section of fan forums. They have a 100+ page thread, that gets added to daily, celebrating the misfortunes (including injuries) of the Jets. It's interesting though, how much they project onto the Bills-- "Last season was a fluke," "McDermott is a flash in the pan," "Allen will get injured," "they'll never get a new stadium," etc. Their fear of the Bills becoming dominant is almost palpable.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Rocky Landing

[Bad Things]

There's a lot of posts about how "they" should poll more of the fans for their opinion on the stadium design.

 

Don't you think they should poll the Taxpayers that will be footing the bill?

I live on the other side of the planet, and to be honest, my opinions shouldn't count for anything on this.