Miami considering trading down from 6

[Rochesterfan]

31 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

And they're positioned well if someone wants a QB ahead of detroit/denver.  

 

Yes they are, but to be in that position they had to trade back up and gave away a top pick.  If they then trade back down - at least to me - it means the FO got out thought.  
 

They moved back early to let a team get a QB and moved up early for obviously someone (I think Pitts).  If they don’t get that guy and have to trade down - that is a huge blunder as the guy would of been there at 3.  
 

They got extra picks, but if it costs them an elite tiered player then they totally botched the draft. The extra picks in the middle or later part of the round help build depth, but the top tiered guys are usually in the top 5.  The Dolphins get lucky with a plethora of QBs - some elite talent will fall to 6, but they need to grab it.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

I honestly think Miami's rise is "severely" overrated. I don't like what they've done, and I'm not in love with their direction.

 

For starters, Im not a believer in Tua. Nor was i a fan of throwing Tua in over Fitz.

 

They keep jettisoning solid players for draft picks, yet the drafting has been so so. Draft picks are great, but you've got to draft players, keep them, and coach them. Let alone build a culture, etc...

 

The trading back cuteness got the Pats in steady decline. They hit on a few, but missed elite players.  I see similiar stuff happening in Miami.

 

Pitts is sitting there, a future HOF'er if ive ever seen one. Dont overthink it.

 

They overthink things and get cute. Much of the talent they've cut, traded, or trimmed would have made them better. Theyve missed on many FAs as well.

 

Then there is Tua. 

 

Then there was that righteous pounding, beat down we gave them in January. Not exactly culture building. 

 

...And Flores sure as hell is no Bill Billicheck.

 

I agree on many of the points here.  3 1st rounders last year, and ii didn't really love any of the picks.  In a talented WR draft - and at a position of need - they didn't take one.  I wasn't impressed with Jackson, and the corner they picked played like 25% of snaps behind jones/howard.  If you have 2 good corners under contract for a while, why would you take another?  By the time he has a spot to start he'll need to get paid.  They also moved fitzpatrick (an all-pro) for picks, and didn't exactly replace him.  

 

4 picks in the first 50, they still need front 7 help, they could upgrade at safety on defense.  And on offense they still probably need oline help, and only have Fuller under contract for a season.  If Tua is a hit they'll be fine, but if he isn't they're still a pretty poor offense and a turnover dependent defense that isn't great at stopping the run.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Yes they are, but to be in that position they had to trade back up and gave away a top pick.  If they then trade back down - at least to me - it means the FO got out thought.  
 

They moved back early to let a team get a QB and moved up early for obviously someone (I think Pitts).  If they don’t get that guy and have to trade down - that is a huge blunder as the guy would of been there at 3.  
 

They got extra picks, but if it costs them an elite tiered player then they totally botched the draft. The extra picks in the middle or later part of the round help build depth, but the top tiered guys are usually in the top 5.  The Dolphins get lucky with a plethora of QBs - some elite talent will fall to 6, but they need to grab it.

 

I think at 6 they can get 1 of chase, pitts, sewell, smith.  So no matter what they're positioned for a playmaker on offense, or upgrading the offensive line.  They also still have 4 of the first 50 picks.  But they're a 10-6 team with 1 win over a playoff team (a rams game where they had under 150 yards of offense, 8 first downs, and 2 D/ST TDs), and 4 losses to playoff teams where they gave up more than 30 points a game and like 450 yards in each.  

 

They aren't a finished product on either side of the ball - and Tua needs to make a big jump for them to stay where they are in the standings.  They need some hits in this draft too, as they really only have 1 star player in howard. 

[HardyBoy]

I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available.

 

 

[mannc]

14 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available.

 

 

That's possible.  It's more likely that they suspect Tua might not have what it takes, but feel they need to give him another year, to be sure.  And they don't want to look like complete idiots for drafting him instead of Justin Herbert.  

[B-Man]

 

Well, I hope that this "clever" organization, is smart enough to NOT trade with New England.

 

 

[DCOrange]

30 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available.

 

 

I think this is pretty likely tbh. After Lawrence, I don't have any of these QBs rated above where Tua was last year. They desperately need more offensive talent on that team, whether it's the pass catchers or the OLine.

[MJS]

14 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

It would actually be smart, IMO.

 

They can trade down pick up another 1st next year and If Tua isn't that guy but that still go .500 or so they have the ability to package some picks to move up and get a QB next season if they think one is there.... or trade for Deshaun assuming his legal issues are behind him by then.

Then they should not have traded back up to 6.

[Captain Hindsight]

46 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available.

 

 

Possible, but I'm not sure his HC believes in him. Hence the relief pitcher. They lured Brissett there too with a 5 million dollar contract. Orton was paid 6 mil IIRC to be the eventual starter here. Miami is hedging their bets with a vet with lots of starting experience 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Yes they are, but to be in that position they had to trade back up and gave away a top pick.  If they then trade back down - at least to me - it means the FO got out thought.  
 

They moved back early to let a team get a QB and moved up early for obviously someone (I think Pitts).  If they don’t get that guy and have to trade down - that is a huge blunder as the guy would of been there at 3.  
 

They got extra picks, but if it costs them an elite tiered player then they totally botched the draft. The extra picks in the middle or later part of the round help build depth, but the top tiered guys are usually in the top 5.  The Dolphins get lucky with a plethora of QBs - some elite talent will fall to 6, but they need to grab it.

I think you only do the trade-up if you're comfortable with a group of top tier guys.  

[RiotAct]

Git

 

Er

 

Done

 

Beane!!!

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, HardyBoy said:

I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available.

 

 

Not sure how anyone, literally anyone (even babies) could think that Tua has a higher upside that Fields or Lance.

[Rochesterfan]

32 minutes ago, dneveu said:

I think you only do the trade-up if you're comfortable with a group of top tier guys.  

Agreed - so then why trade back down a second time.

 

If someone is moving up to get a QB ahead of Detroit or Denver - you are dropping back to the teens and outside of the top tier guys.

 

You picked up a good haul dropping back to 12 and then gave away more than 1/2 to move back up to 6.  The net acquired by Miami was less than a single trade from 3 to 6, but the 2 trades put them in position to still get a top guy and acquire a 1st rd pick a ways out.  
 

I just do not understand the smokescreen given to move back down again - if that is even a remote though process - the move back up from 12 to 6 was stupid and worthless.

[RichRiderBills]

2 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

I know this is shocking to some, but it's possible the dolphins view Tua as a better draft prospect with a higher ceiling than any of the qbs they could have had at #3. Like if they were all coming out this year, they would have Tua rated above the guys likely available.

 

 

 

They could have had Pitts, who is a generational talent. Now they need to cross their fingers ATL and CIN dont take him.

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

I think at 6 they can get 1 of chase, pitts, sewell, smith.  So no matter what they're positioned for a playmaker on offense, or upgrading the offensive line.  They also still have 4 of the first 50 picks.  But they're a 10-6 team with 1 win over a playoff team (a rams game where they had under 150 yards of offense, 8 first downs, and 2 D/ST TDs), and 4 losses to playoff teams where they gave up more than 30 points a game and like 450 yards in each.  

 

They aren't a finished product on either side of the ball - and Tua needs to make a big jump for them to stay where they are in the standings.  They need some hits in this draft too, as they really only have 1 star player in howard. 

 

I think Pitts is well above those other guys. 

 

BTW cannot stress how I 💘 them letting Godchaux, Lawson, and Van Noy walk. Phins are kidding themselves, and they've gotten worse.

Edited April 20, 2021 by RichRiderBills

[HardyBoy]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Then they should not have traded back up to 6.

 

Is it possible the value of the sixth pick goes up on draft day though? Also, there is a benefit of knowing who is available at six, and then deciding to trade down, that opportunity to have that knowledge is valuable in itself.

[RichRiderBills]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Not sure how anyone, literally anyone (even babies) could think that Tua has a higher upside that Fields or Lance.

 

Phins will draft a later QB, likely a 3rd or 4th rounder.

 

Tua had a ton of upside when drafted...he was hurt afterall. 

[RobbRiddick]

I don't get why people are calling them clueless. I'm sorry to say the Dolphins now seem like a very smart team and have done a great job the last few years. They remind me of the Bills actually. The biggest mistake they've made IMO is Tua. Maybe he'll look great but I'd be surprised and as someone else mentioned here, they could end up with a lot of ammo to go after a top QB next year

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

Phins will draft a later QB, likely a 3rd or 4th rounder.

 

Tua had a ton of upside when drafted...he was hurt afterall. 

Yeah, I’m not disputing that.  All I said was Tuas ceiling isn’t as high as Lance or fields.  

[78thealltimegreat]

On 4/19/2021 at 8:03 PM, ScottLaw said:

It would actually be smart, IMO.

 

They can trade down pick up another 1st next year and If Tua isn't that guy but that still go .500 or so they have the ability to package some picks to move up and get a QB next season if they think one is there.... or trade for Deshaun assuming his legal issues are behind him by then.

The problem is next year the QB class is basically Spencer Rattler and that’s it and even he’s an iffy prospect there is no Trevor Lawrence lurking for the next few years till DJ Uiagalelei is ready and then after that the Arch Manning hype will then start to begin  

Edited April 21, 2021 by 78thealltimegreat

[DolFAN93]

16 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

BTW cannot stress how I 💘 them letting Godchaux, Lawson, and Van Noy walk. Phins are kidding themselves, and they've gotten worse.

You're saying this as if Miami lost elite talent lol. There's already players on the team that can fill those roles.

 

*Godchaux was a rotational DT by the end of last year after getting his snaps taken away by Zach Sieler. They also signed Adam Butler from the Pats-- 15 career sacks vs Godchaux's 3.

*AVG was more productive than Van Noy in less snaps. That veteran presence will be missed but that's about it.

* The beauty of Miami's defense is they don't rely on stars for their DL. As long as you can create pressure (107 career pressures by Butler compared to Godchaux's 48 btw) you can play for Flores. Lawson didn't do it consistently which is why he's gone.

[Chandler#81]

I’m convinced it’s (basically) a ruse. Sure, see what’s out there that interest them to trade back (P.T.Barnums words continue to ring true). But imo, they’d be -well, the JETS to not take Florida ‘ TE. Who wouldn’t want a Dynamic Duo 12 pkg??

who, I say WHO?

Especially so, given the glaring weeknesses the ‘rookie Savior’ TuaTonguningaTurtle displayed last season..

 

Im going with fable. It’s a ruse! 

[YoloinOhio]

That stupid team just needs to pick a damn player. They are going to be so good in 2024. Maybe. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Why not trade down again? The top 3 WRs are all interchangeable as are the top 2 OT and top 2 CB. Assuming Pitts is gone by 6, they could move back 4 to 5 spots and still get the player they want.

[Saint Doug]

This is a team that has 2 OCs. I believe the report. 

[YoloinOhio]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:44 AM, DCOrange said:

This shouldn't be that complicated. At least one of Pitts, Chase, and Sewell will be available at #6. Just take whoever is there; they're all elite prospects at positions of need.

I hope they just collect draft picks instead of blue chip players. They might actually be good if they had kept Tunsil, Minkah, Landry, drake etc and drafted Herbert. Or even not gone back and forth with the QBs last year. Or not made terrible FA signings last year they already moved on from. Or fire their OC every year.  It’s all mish mash down there.  Draft picks win championships! 

[TheFunPolice]

didn't they trade up to #6?

[YoloinOhio]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:37 PM, DolFAN93 said:

It isn't too far-fetched. Denver would be a prime trade-down partner which would allow Miami to still get Jaylen Waddle for example.

 

I'd take these reports with a grain of salt though. Miami is one of the most secretive teams in the league. Reports are only coming out now since everyone believes Atlanta is taking Pitts instead of a QB.

Why would they need Pitts if they already traded for Lee Smith

Edited April 22, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[DolFAN93]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I hope they just collect draft picks instead of blue chip players. They might actually be good if they had kept Tunsil, Minkah, Landry, drake etc and drafted Herbert. Or even not gone back and forth with the QBs last year. Or not made terrible FA signings last year they already moved on from. Or fire their OC every year.  It’s all mish mash down there.  Draft picks win championships! 

Hypothetically, they wouldn't have a chance to draft Herbert if Minkah was retained because they wouldn't get Pittsburgh's 1st. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by DolFAN93

[machine gun kelly]

It’s almost a lock ATL gets Pitts.  Given they feel Ryan still has juice, Pitts is logical.  They need defensive help, but there really isn’t any Lawrence Taylor’s out there.  If Miami thinks they can get the same type of player at 9 or 10, I guess.  
 

To me it’s liars season.  I trust zero reports out there.

[Rochesterfan]

On 4/21/2021 at 6:11 AM, Chandler#81 said:

I’m convinced it’s (basically) a ruse. Sure, see what’s out there that interest them to trade back (P.T.Barnums words continue to ring true). But imo, they’d be -well, the JETS to not take Florida ‘ TE. Who wouldn’t want a Dynamic Duo 12 pkg??

who, I say WHO?

Especially so, given the glaring weeknesses the ‘rookie Savior’ TuaTonguningaTurtle displayed last season..

 

Im going with fable. It’s a ruse! 

 

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

It’s almost a lock ATL gets Pitts.  Given they feel Ryan still has juice, Pitts is logical.  They need defensive help, but there really isn’t any Lawrence Taylor’s out there.  If Miami thinks they can get the same type of player at 9 or 10, I guess.  
 

To me it’s liars season.  I trust zero reports out there.

 

If Pitts is what they wanted and felt he was by far the pick - then the trade down from 3 to 12 and back up to 6 was stupid.  
 

They were in position to ensure they get Pitts and moved on.

 

If Atl takes Pitts and the Dolphins slide back - then the trade up early seems ill conceived.

 

I totally agree this is all about ruses and lies - they are hoping another team moves up ahead of them for a QB - I just don’t see a real move back that helps long term and still gives you a quality player.

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, DolFAN93 said:

Hypothetically, they wouldn't have a chance to draft Herbert if Minkah was retained because they wouldn't get Pittsburgh's 1st. 

They couldn’t have traded up for a QB with any other capital? 

[Thurman#1]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:51 PM, Rochesterfan said:

 

Yes they are, but to be in that position they had to trade back up and gave away a top pick.  If they then trade back down - at least to me - it means the FO got out thought.  
 

They moved back early to let a team get a QB and moved up early for obviously someone (I think Pitts).  If they don’t get that guy and have to trade down - that is a huge blunder as the guy would of been there at 3.  
 

They got extra picks, but if it costs them an elite tiered player then they totally botched the draft. The extra picks in the middle or later part of the round help build depth, but the top tiered guys are usually in the top 5.  The Dolphins get lucky with a plethora of QBs - some elite talent will fall to 6, but they need to grab it.

 

 

I disagree. IMO there are plenty of situations it would make sense.

 

Say they have a group of four or five guys they want. Yeah, they'd be guaranteed to get one at #3. But assuming four QBs get picked early, they would be guaranteed to get one of their four guys if they are at eight or one of their five guys if they are at nine.

 

So if their best situation is picking up Pitts or Chase, but they have two or three others in their next tier, they wait till they're on the clock. If Pitts or Chase are there, they pick. If not they trade back and still get a guy from their second tier and some more picks besides.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Rochesterfan]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I disagree. IMO there are plenty of situations it would make sense.

 

Say they have a group of four or five guys they want. Yeah, they'd be guaranteed to get one at #3. But assuming four QBs get picked early, they would be guaranteed to get one of their four guys if they are at eight or one of their five guys if they are at nine.

 

And will have picked up a bunch of picks besides.

 

That is fine, but then why give back the assets to move to 6 originally.  You got capital and then gave back capital to move back up - now you are looking for Detroit, Denver, or Carolina to move up to ensure you get one of those guys and you have to hope they are doing it for a QB.  
 

I understood the original 2 moves for that exact reason you mention.  They have 4 guys and now the 1st 3 picks are QBs - 6 is perfect.  You lose out on TE and either OL or 1 of the 2 receivers, but you are left with 2 guys.  
 

If you move back to 8 or 9 and you lose out on those 2 players - does the extra picks mean as much?  At this point - I would not assume Detroit, Denver, or Carolina are moving for a QB.  

[nucci]

from what I've been reading, some teams are looking to trade up, trade down or stay where they are.

On 4/19/2021 at 7:42 PM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/19/dolphins-may-look-to-trade-down-from-no-6/ 
 

is this front office this clueless lol??? Eventually your going to have to draft someone.

why are you calling the front office clueless based on a rumor you believe?  

[BuffaloRebound]

Because it insults our intelligence to even float this rumor.  We’re supposed to believe the Dolphins are now gonna trade back after giving up a 2022 1st rounder to move up to the 6th pick?  The beat writer for the Dolphins gave an interview last year after the draft and admitted the rumors the Dolphins floated last year about drafting one of the offensive tackles wasn’t something he believed but he had to report it anyway.  

[DolFAN93]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

They couldn’t have traded up for a QB with any other capital? 

They could have but it leaves a bunch of what ifs. Tunsil had to get paid, Landry was getting traded either way, Minkah wasn't down to "tank", Drake was a free agent, etc. Miami would still be replacing those players, even after trading up for Herbert so your original point has some holes.

 

 

[DolFAN93]

31 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Because it insults our intelligence to even float this rumor.  We’re supposed to believe the Dolphins are now gonna trade back after giving up a 2022 1st rounder to move up to the 6th pick?  The beat writer for the Dolphins gave an interview last year after the draft and admitted the rumors the Dolphins floated last year about drafting one of the offensive tackles wasn’t something he believed but he had to report it anyway.  

 

They're clueless for floating rumors around? Smoke screens are something GM Chris Grier has done since he got the job.

That strategy if used correctly can control a draft. What matters is what other teams believe, not writers or fans.

[BuffaloRebound]

9 minutes ago, DolFAN93 said:

 

They're clueless for floating rumors around? Smoke screens are something GM Chris Grier has done since he got the job.

That strategy if used correctly can control a draft. What matters is what other teams believe, not writers or fans.

I didn’t call Grier clueless.  More about wasting his time on spreading nonsensical  rumors.  Chargers were able to sit at 6 and get the best QB in the draft last year.  So if anybody believed the patter Grier was spreading last year about selecting a Tackle at 5, the only thing it did was help the Chargers stay put and still get their guy.  In what world does a rational organization trade a 1st rounder to move up to the 6th pick after trading back from 3 then trade back again?  Grier might as well float the rumor that he’s trading back up to 3 for a QB. Makes as much sense.  

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

It’s almost a lock ATL gets Pitts.  Given they feel Ryan still has juice, Pitts is logical.  They need defensive help, but there really isn’t any Lawrence Taylor’s out there.  If Miami thinks they can get the same type of player at 9 or 10, I guess.  
 

To me it’s liars season.  I trust zero reports out there.

I agree.  Believe nothing you hear WRT the draft this time of year.  Lying liars.  All of them.  As for Miami, never hurts to listen to offers and see who gets stupid.  And (again) it might just be smoke anyway.  Or maybe they trade out with a QB needy team and prevent NE from being able to move up for their QB.  I’d be okay with that. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 4/19/2021 at 5:28 PM, Devilmann said:

Honestly I’d trade out as well and collect a 1st for next year. This years draft class is kinda iffy to me. As far as Tua is concerned gotta give him some time and give the guy a fair chance. It’s not like Josh looked amazing his first year (yes I know he had garbage around him) and Peyton threw 28 picks his rookie year. 

I agree with you...however the one thing I would say is that Josh Allen had some wow moments and started to also shine down the stretch of his rookie year showing great growth.  Coming out of year 1 the arrow was pointing way up.  
 

This off-season, Tua doesn’t have that kind of optimism as he didn’t really do enough that made anyone feel like this kid is for sure how he future. 

But like I said, I agree with you, they need to give him time and the a better cast first before anyone starts giving up on the kid.  He has a ton of upside for sure