Is Beane all but done with FA?

[JGMcD2]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Thus far, the Bills have made zero upgrades to the starting roster.  Nothing to improve the pass rush.  Nothing to improve the run defense.  Nothing to improve our coverage on the back end.  If the season started today, we might as well concede the AFC to Kansas City.  Sorry for the brutal honestly.  But we aren't good enough to beat them.

The alternative is essentially just rearranging furniture.

 

You upgrade CB2, DE and DT through FA while simultaneously leaving 2 starting OL spots and LB open. 
 

They haven’t gotten worse... they’re the same team as last year with the opportunity to improve moving forward. It’s the same discussion if we let Milano, Williams and Feliciano walk and bringing in Ngakoue, Fuller and Dalvin Tomlinson... the difference is fans get excited about new shiny toys as opposed to running it back with the same group. There’s nothing to say Ngakoue, Fuller and Tomlinson help us take that next step if we downgrade other positions and can’t fill them or fill them through the draft. It’s a net gain of zero.. so why wouldn’t you function with the known quantity and continue to build on it? It’s a good thing the season doesn’t start today and there’s still the draft and weeks of free agency to improve. 
 

Let me be clear... I agree we need to beat the Chiefs... but let’s pump the breaks on freaking out because we’re returning a 13-3 team. 
 

Love the idea of conceding before games are played too... why even play them at all right? Let’s just do fantasy free agency all year long... see who has the best roster on paper and crown them champions! 

Edited March 21, 2021 by JGMcD2

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

This is assuming that every position holds the same value.... which would obviously be wrong.

Well all of your scenarios assume that everyone we bring in at DE, WR, etc. makes an impact and is an improvement that elevates the team.. which would obviously be wrong as well. 
 

That’s what your whole crusade is predicated on. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by JGMcD2

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I’ve suggested cutting dead weight and bringing in better players....not sure how that doesn’t make the team better....

That’s assuming they maintain the same level of play and success they’ve had elsewhere prior. 
 

Both of us are doing a lot of assuming apparently, Scott. 

[Don Otreply]

21 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

He may not want to be but the cap money says he’s pretty much done.  The dream restructures people are hoping for probably won’t happen.  Beane said he doesn’t really want to do that.  

Understand, but that was not so much my point... Beane  appears to be in a perpetual state of trying to find the next helpful acquisition that helps the team, while not upsetting the apple cart that is the finances that underpin the whole thing. 

[djp14150]

5 hours ago, Greatdane21 said:

He will add depth, looking for a kick returner ,cb, speed wr ,edge rusher

 

PRmore important than KR.  You can find this in DBs and receivers that you draft or pick up as UDFA

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, HOUSE said:

I am expecting a rare player for player trade, something that lowers the cap yet brings buffalo a younger player.

 

 

I'd didn't mention that option but I think it's something Beane is looking into.

a player for player swap is definitely a good move for wise GMs this year.

Thanks for confirming something that just may happen before Beane goes into depth players and the draft!

[John from Riverside]

I guess where i am concerned (or maybe just dont know how things worked) is it seems we are so low we dont even have enough to to sign our draft picks.   There was a date of when contracts could be restructured has that day come and passed?

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

The alternative is essentially just rearranging furniture.

 

You upgrade CB2, DE and DT through FA while simultaneously leaving 2 starting OL spots and LB open. 
 

They haven’t gotten worse... they’re the same team as last year with the opportunity to improve moving forward. It’s the same discussion if we let Milano, Williams and Feliciano walk and bringing in Ngakoue, Fuller and Dalvin Tomlinson... the difference is fans get excited about new shiny toys as opposed to running it back with the same group. There’s nothing to say Ngakoue, Fuller and Tomlinson help us take that next step if we downgrade other positions and can’t fill them or fill them through the draft. It’s a net gain of zero.. so why wouldn’t you function with the known quantity and continue to build on it? It’s a good thing the season doesn’t start today and there’s still the draft and weeks of free agency to improve. 
 

Let me be clear... I agree we need to beat the Chiefs... but let’s pump the breaks on freaking out because we’re returning a 13-3 team. 
 

Love the idea of conceding before games are played too... why even play them at all right? Let’s just do fantasy free agency all year long... see who has the best roster on paper and crown them champions! 

I would also mention a point joe Marino has made. There are several young players that are primed to take a step up and if they do that will material difference to the team because of their position. They include Josh (still has room to hit his ceiling), Ed, Tremaine, Knox, Epenesa. If two of these take a step forward then we will have a much better team. 

[Rocket94]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Just makes more sense to me to try and improve areas where you struggled all year rather than go with the same group... part of me understands giving the same group another shot, but they shouldn't be surprised if the overall results are the same or worse.

I don't like what I saw from the Bills defensively beginning with the Colts. Everything became so transparent, and now we have the same core group and it scares me. The Bills need an infusion of speed, tenacity, and playmakers to augment this core. Everyone will be gunning for the Bills this time around...making it much more difficult.

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I guess where i am concerned (or maybe just dont know how things worked) is it seems we are so low we dont even have enough to to sign our draft picks.   There was a date of when contracts could be restructured has that day come and passed?

It’s not gonna take much to sign draft picks because the rule of 51. The numbers for the contracts are known as well. I assume beane didn’t make that gaffe. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Every team in the league can say this... including the Chiefs, Ravens, Bucs, Packers. 

and?

[YattaOkasan]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Every team in the league can say this... including the Chiefs, Ravens, Bucs, Packers. 

Start with the chiefs. CEH, thorn hill, and hard man all seem to be pretty near their peak. Compare that to a top 10 player like Ed Or a first round pick like Tremaine. Better counter is to say they are gonna bust but I think we have a good bit (more than most teams) of untapped potential on our team. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[mjt328]

3 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

The alternative is essentially just rearranging furniture.

 

You upgrade CB2, DE and DT through FA while simultaneously leaving 2 starting OL spots and LB open. 
 

They haven’t gotten worse... they’re the same team as last year with the opportunity to improve moving forward. It’s the same discussion if we let Milano, Williams and Feliciano walk and bringing in Ngakoue, Fuller and Dalvin Tomlinson... the difference is fans get excited about new shiny toys as opposed to running it back with the same group. There’s nothing to say Ngakoue, Fuller and Tomlinson help us take that next step if we downgrade other positions and can’t fill them or fill them through the draft. It’s a net gain of zero.. so why wouldn’t you function with the known quantity and continue to build on it? It’s a good thing the season doesn’t start today and there’s still the draft and weeks of free agency to improve. 
 

Let me be clear... I agree we need to beat the Chiefs... but let’s pump the breaks on freaking out because we’re returning a 13-3 team. 
 

Love the idea of conceding before games are played too... why even play them at all right? Let’s just do fantasy free agency all year long... see who has the best roster on paper and crown them champions! 

 

There needs to be a happy medium.

 

I've never advocated that we splurge on the big name free agents.  I'm not saying we should overspend, or mortgage our future.  But there are going to be plenty of bargain guys, who are asking for a fair price, who can absolutely help us.  The question asked in the OP was whether we should just start looking to the draft.  And I believe that would be a huge mistake.

 

It's just like with your personal finances.  Smart people know how to save and invest.  They make sure not to get deep into debt, and always try to make good decisions with money.  But you can also go too far the other way, and become so frugal that you never take advantage of the savings you have created.

 

It's all about balance.  There are foolish things we could do, which would do nothing but put us into salary cap problems 2-3 years from now.  But there are also safe/reasonable restructures that can be done, which would give us the ability to pull in 1-2 decent vets this season.  The Bills are in a position to compete for a Super Bowl now.  And we know where we need to improve to take the next step.  There is no reason we should go into the 2021 season with the same defensive starting lineup.

 

[GreggTX]

Beane needs to nail his top 2 picks and 1 other.

[JGMcD2]

32 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Just makes more sense to me to try and improve areas where you struggled all year rather than go with the same group... part of me understands giving the same group another shot, but they shouldn't be surprised if the overall results are the same or worse.

 

They are taking more of a risk going with some of the same guys rather than cutting them and attempting to upgrade, IMO.

You can’t improve the deficiencies without retaining the same group. 
 

They’re not taking more of a risk... it’s honestly the safer route IMO. You’re going with a 13-3 roster and still haven’t even gone through the draft yet. Still plenty of time to improve deficiencies... 

3 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

There needs to be a happy medium.

 

I've never advocated that we splurge on the big name free agents.  I'm not saying we should overspend, or mortgage our future.  But there are going to be plenty of bargain guys, who are asking for a fair price, who can absolutely help us.  The question asked in the OP was whether we should just start looking to the draft.  And I believe that would be a huge mistake.

 

It's just like with your personal finances.  Smart people know how to save and invest.  They make sure not to get deep into debt, and always try to make good decisions with money.  But you can also go too far the other way, and become so frugal that you never take advantage of the savings you have created.

 

It's all about balance.  There are foolish things we could do, which would do nothing but put us into salary cap problems 2-3 years from now.  But there are also safe/reasonable restructures that can be done, which would give us the ability to pull in 1-2 decent vets this season.  The Bills are in a position to compete for a Super Bowl now.  And we know where we need to improve to take the next step.  There is no reason we should go into the 2021 season with the same defensive starting lineup.

 

I agree with you... there will be bargain guys to be had... but not right now. So we can’t be sitting here upset that we haven’t reached the point where acquiring bargain type guys is an option. That’s just a timing thing... as much as we want to fast forward to that point haha. 
 

I also agree we need to improve our defense... but it can be in a variety of ways seeing it’s a fairly player friendly scheme given the player is the right fit. Yes, the defense threw up two duds in the playoffs and struggled early on (like most NFL defenses this year) but when the dust settled they were on the cusp of being a top 10 unit. 
 

Who is to say we don’t get a L’Jarious Sneed type difference maker in the draft or something that nobody even saw coming except for the front office/ coaching staff? 

[Rocket94]

43 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Just makes more sense to me to try and improve areas where you struggled all year rather than go with the same group... part of me understands giving the same group another shot, but they shouldn't be surprised if the overall results are the same or worse.

 

They are taking more of a risk going with some of the same guys rather than cutting them and attempting to upgrade, IMO.

How are the Bills going to stop TE's? The Tyreek Hills? Pittman!

[TFBillsfan]

6 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Beane needs to nail his top 2 picks and 1 other.

Agree. Outside of CB or RB in the first round I don’t see any other rookie making much impact on the roster. Mostly depth picks. Finding a difference maker at DE or TE is more of a hope they can vs expecting they will. On D we need someone that is a physical, hard hitting LB. 

 

If we don’t do anything further in FA, I’d take Najee or Etienne if either are there at 30. If not CB is my pick. Then DE, TE, LB and OG/C.  On offense, RB and TE is where we need to add impact players IMO.

[billsfan89]

I think Beane is going to make 1-2 "value" signings and resign Ike. Resigning Ike is a no brainer, no reason to lose quality O-line depth on a restricted free agent in a depressed market. As far as other signings I think Beane will add 1-2 vets on the cheap. With the market the way it is right now it could become a "buyers" market and a lot of quality free agents may sign for very affordable deals and that's where Beane will slip in. I can see the D-line adding a vet and the secondary specifically. I wouldn't rule out tight end or O-line depth either.

[Rocket94]

11 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Agree. Outside of CB or RB in the first round I don’t see any other rookie making much impact on the roster. Mostly depth picks. Finding a difference maker at DE or TE is more of a hope they can vs expecting they will. On D we need someone that is a physical, hard hitting LB. 

 

If we don’t do anything further in FA, I’d take Najee or Etienne if either are there at 30. If not CB is my pick. Then DE, TE, LB and OG/C.  On offense, RB and TE is where we need to add impact players IMO.

Players that are good against the run and TE's.

[T master]

I don't know that Beane is ever really done you put a really good player out in front of him he's gonna see what he can do always expect the unexpected from the Wizard Beane ...

Edited March 22, 2021 by T master

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

He will value shop and create cap if he needs it if we connect with a more expensive player that make sense for us. 
 

Edit:  Actually @Reed83HOF mentioned that Tre & Dawkins had restructure option clauses in their contracts but they had a window of a few days.  That window has passed so I’d wager that they were executed and that we have more cap space than what OTC and Spotrac can verify.  They wouldn’t want to broadcast the fact that they have the extra cap space for negotiation purposes so it’ll only come out if and when they need it. 
 

Edit 2: Spotrac has us with negative cap space and does not yet have Feliciano’s contract accounted for.  They Bills have certainly executed those clauses and/or made room elsewhere.

 

Just a note Spotrac doesn't have Matakevich extention on there either, which almost certainly drops his cap hit.

 

10 hours ago, djp14150 said:

you have the draft coming up and see what they draft in the first few rounds who can step in snd play.

Then you have the June cap cuts

i know it’s rare, but post draft could you sera player for player trade

 

Are there gonna be roster cutdowns in June this year?  Or are you talking about the players designated as "post June 1" moves?

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I would think either a low level sleeper edge rusher or a big name one left might still be in play here. The fact that 3 still remain is interesting to me ... Melvin Ingram, Justin Houston and Clowney would all be an upgrade imo. I just don't see how we don't get an edge rusher either in the draft, FA or both. 

[MiltonWaddams]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I would think either a low level sleeper edge rusher or a big name one left might still be in play here. The fact that 3 still remain is interesting to me ... Melvin Ingram, Justin Houston and Clowney would all be an upgrade imo. I just don't see how we don't get an edge rusher either in the draft, FA or both. 

If Ingram is healthy, he would be a great 2 year plug and play guy. I always liked his game.

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

You improve deficiencies by bringing in better players.... again, I understand giving it another shot with essentially the same guys and a few new(but not substantial) pieces, but don’t be surprised if things end exactly the same way again next year because your roster isn’t good enough. 
 

Don’t agree it’s a safer route, the goal isn’t to get pounded in the AFC Championship game. It’s to win the SB.... you are essentially risking the same outcome by not cutting your losses on certain players who are what they are at this point in their careers and attempting upgrading where necessary. 

But if you spend money on improving those deficiencies... you create other deficiencies... that’s the whole issue.

 

You wanted Ngakoue... what does he do better than Mario Addison? They’ve been remarkably similar players over the last 5 years. Is he actually an upgrade? 

 

You wanted Curtis Samuel... what does he do better than Sanders? By the look of it Sanders is more productive for less money. Why would you spend more money for less production when we’re as close as we are? 
 

You want Engram... what does he do better than Knox? You said it yourself... he’s the same player as Knox but a little more athletic (and cost $5.5M more). Why would you waste money on that when you have the same player in house and can spend that $5.5M elsewhere? 

 

Getting to the AFCCG is hard enough in itself... you are taking more of risk ripping apart a team that was capable of getting there in search of a team that MIGHT get you there. You’re better off building on top of the team that was capable getting there than you are gutting it. 

 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

6 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

If Ingram is healthy, he would be a great 2 year plug and play guy. I always liked his game.

 

Yeah I believe he was hurt last season again but I agree, Ingram when healthy is a nasty individual that I'd definitely want on my defense.

Edited March 22, 2021 by BuffaloBillsGospel

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, T master said:

O don't know that Beane is ever really done you put a really good player out in front of him he's gonna see what he can do always expect the unexpected from the Wizard Beane ...

That's what Beane does. He lulls all of us fans to sleep and then.....

 

BOOM!!!

We just signed Mitch Trubisky!

[iommi]

 

[BobbyC81]

15 hours ago, Iamkrgr said:

I could see us getting Dunlap if he’s cheap enough. Maybe a CB on that level as well. Couple guys to add depth and rotate with our other vets.

 

Hughes, Addison, Epenesa, Dunlap, Johnson at edge could be a good underrated group. 

 

I’m sure Mike Love will take a break from the Beach Boys again and be at camp.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

Yeah I believe he was hurt last season again but I agree, Ingram when healthy is a nasty individual that I'd definitely want on my defense.

Sounds like Ingram is visiting the Chiefs this week. I wonder if we have even entertained the idea of bringing him in? Not sure some of these guys and Beane would even be in the same ballpark. 

[BillsFan1988]

18 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

The restructure option clauses I’m talking about just convert some of this season’s salary to a signing bonus, which would be paid upon execution.  Looking closer I see that for Tre it’s $7.5M and the window closes today.  That will clear $6M this season and move it out. Link

 

Dawkins also has $7.5M that can be converted by today.  It will clear $5.6M.  It’s less because it will be spread over 4 years instead of 5 like Tre’s.  Link

They shouldn't kick the can down the road for 3rd tier free agents. Its not worth it. We missed our opportunity to get a difference making free agent. From here on out expect vet min deals.

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

Players that are good against the run and TE's.

But Star and Milano are returning... 

[BarleyNY]

24 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

They shouldn't kick the can down the road for 3rd tier free agents. Its not worth it. We missed our opportunity to get a difference making free agent. From here on out expect vet min deals.

Most likely.  But you never know.  If we could bring in someone like a Melvin Ingram on a reasonable, short term deal they might do it.  He wouldn’t break the bank, but would cost more than we should probably spend right now.  It would take pressure off of filling that need in the draft and would allow a developmental player to come along more slowly so it’d be worth it IMO.  But, no, I definitely don’t see any luxury spending happening. 

[KGun12TD]

The Magic Beane is NEVER done. He waits!!!

[dave mcbride]

43 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Your argument is players available in FA aren’t better than what we have already?

 

Samuel does everything. He fills the McKenzie role, can line up in the backfield and is a viable deep threat. He’s a terrific player and adds the much needed speed element that is missing right now offensively. I like Sanders, but he’s also old and as @BADOLBILZpointed out his skill set is redundant with what we have already offensively. 
 

I wasn’t that high on Ngakoue, but even still the argument is easy to make that at this point in both his and Addisons career he is a better player and pass rusher.... I thought Addison lost a step prior to last season when I watched Panthers games from 2019.....it looked pretty obvious. Last year further supported my point. He’s a subpar player at this point. The chances that Ngakoue, Lawson, Dunlap, Autry, Hendrickson would’ve not been upgrades to Addison are slim. 

 

Never said I’m taking apart the team. I said I’m letting some players go who underperformed and I’m looking to upgrade or I’m letting certain players walk(Milano) and using that money on more premier positions...and I stand by my comments that the team had that incredible season because of Josh Allen. As long as he performs as he did the team will be in contention in the AFC for years.... the QB makes all the difference. So letting a good OLB walk and cutting an old, subpar DE wouldn’t result in the team crumbling, IMO. 

I don’t think @BADOLBILZ ever said Sanders was “redundant.” Basically, having both on the field at the same time creates massive matchup problems for opponents. Assuming for a second Sanders doesn’t decline, he’s a better player for the Bills next season than Samuel would be simply because he is likely to be very productive and a significantly better route runner than Samuels. Long term is a different issue, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.

[BillsFan1988]

38 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Most likely.  But you never know.  If we could bring in someone like a Melvin Ingram on a reasonable, short term deal they might do it.  He wouldn’t break the bank, but would cost more than we should probably spend right now.  It would take pressure off of filling that need in the draft and would allow a developmental player to come along more slowly so it’d be worth it IMO.  But, no, I definitely don’t see any luxury spending happening. 

I agree but we should of made that happen with a arrow ⬆️ player not a guy that's in decline like Ingram . Ingram didn't even record a single sack last season. But I do agree the less holes on the team the more it allows us to go BPA in draft.

[Boxcar]

I would say he's probably done if he hadn't finished second for JJ Watt and is checking in on not insignificant FA Edge guys, like Adoree Jackson. Yeah, you check in on guys as your job, but why would you check in on guys you already know are out of your price range?

 

I think we end up signing Richard Sherman once he accepts he's not getting what he thinks he should get, while drafting a CB pretty high up (who better to learn from than one of the smartest DBs to ever play the game). I'm not sure where we go with Edge but I don't think a top 3 team is pursuing JJ Watt and then, after losing out, saying "f it, let's give Addison a pay cut and call it a day"

 

I wouldn't rule out a trade but they might be waiting for the Allen contract to settle so they have a concrete number to work around. Josh deserves to get paid but I do hope he takes a bit of a discount so we can continue to surround him with a good team.

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I agree but we should of made that happen with a arrow ⬆️ player not a guy that's in decline like Ingram . Ingram didn't even record a single sack last season. But I do agree the less holes on the team the more it allows us to go BPA in draft.

With Ingram it would depend on his knee.  Seems like he was hobbled last season and only played in 7 games.  If his knee is shot then he’s not playing for anyone.  If healthy he could be a good bridge for a season to a youngster.  I’d wager that he won’t be signing with anyone until teams can get a good look at that knee though.  Medicals are  probably the hold up with Clowney finding a team too.

[JGMcD2]

59 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Your argument is players available in FA aren’t better than what we have already?

 

No. I’m asking what these other players do that make them upgrades. 
 

I’m not paying Curtis Samuel $11.5M a year to be Isaiah McKenzie... that’s essentially what it boils down to. He has 1 year of significant production in the NFL, otherwise he’s been a nice little gadget player for Carolina. He would’ve been nice for $5-6M a year... $11.5M is too much. You’re banking on him being the type of player he’s never been before... and for a speed guy that take the top off the defense... he sure isn’t catch the ball very deep down field... 

 

Same thing with Engram... why pay Engram $6M when you have the same type of player in Dawson Knox? It’s not an upgrade... but you were advocating for it... 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I stand by my comments that the team had that incredible season because of Josh Allen. As long as he performs as he did the team will be in contention in the AFC for years.... the QB makes all the difference. So letting a good OLB walk and cutting an old, subpar DE wouldn’t result in the team crumbling, IMO. 

I actually really do agree with the Josh Allen portion here. 

[Victory Formation]

I think there’s a solid chance McKenzie comes back, could also see some depth signings and camp bodies.

[BillsFan1988]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

With Ingram it would depend on his knee.  Seems like he was hobbled last season and only played in 7 games.  If his knee is shot then he’s not playing for anyone.  If healthy he could be a good bridge for a season to a youngster.  I’d wager that he won’t be signing with anyone until teams can get a good look at that knee though.  Medicals are  probably the hold up with Clowney finding a team too.

Yea I heard Clowney is still not cleared yet from his injuries same could be for Ingram.