Thurman#1 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, frostbitmic said: For the most part this entire defense has been pretty bad this season other than the 2nd half against the Jests. What changed in the 2nd half ? ... Did McCoach take over the play calling duties over Frasier ? ... It's happened before. I'm looking forward to the game Sunday to see if they continue to play how they finished up the Jests game or if they go back to looking conservative and at best, bland. What happened against the Jets is Milano and Edmunds both played a lot in the second half. This defense always plays better when these guys are next to each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Hyde's salary in 2021 is fairly reasonable for his level of play currently. I think he stays in 2021 and the team drafts in round 3 or 4 his replacement long term. But there is no reason to move off of him just yet. His play might be declining but his salary is still good and he is still a starting caliber player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, NoSaint said: restructure as in extension and commit to more years or do you mean ask him to easily take a pay cut? I don't see why they would ask him to take a pay cut. He is still a good player. They could add some years and do some finagling. Next year might be tough depending on the cap number tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, dneveu said: The cap savings is 4.5 million. It isn't even a lot of space. Don't get a comp pick either. You're sacrificing continuity on the back end for... the space to sign danny shelton or haha clinton-dix. Why is it milano or hyde? Why not milano or brown, or milano or butler? I think the cap saving is even slightly less than that. $4.05 M salary $1.0 M roster bonus $100K workout bonus ... so we'd get out of paying $5.15M, but ... We'd be hit with $1.6 M in dead money. So the total saved would be $3.65 M ... ... unless he collects his contractual Pro Bowl bonus of $400K, and if he makes the Pro Bowl he'll have very easily been worth $4.05 M You're right that $3.65M is not a lot of space and that we wouldn't get a comp pick, and that we would almost certainly have to spend yet more money to bring in an FA to replace him. The OP doesn't make any real sense. Edited October 30, 2020 by Thurman#1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, corta765 said: I was taking a look today at Spotrac and what Hyde's dead cap hit is for 2021. Turns out if we cut him next season we only end up owing 1.6 mil of his 6.5 mil deal. Hyde was a foundation guy I wanted when he was a FA in 2017 and his first two seasons he was easily one of the Bills best players and the pro bowl was well earned in 2017. The last season and half though his play has regressed to the point I would consider getting rid of him. Last season his big plays were limited and he was responsible for missing coverage on the big TD Baltimore had. For how good last years D was I felt Hyde was more along for the ride then being a big contributor. This season he has been a trainwreck missing plays left and right while Poyer has covered his mistakes all over. Safety is a spot you can draft or fill pretty cheap and the Bills have found good safeties in the later rounds of the draft. Aaron Williams we converted to safety and was tracking to be a pro bowler before injuries wrecked his career. I would rather see the Bills cut Hyde and Murphy to use for cap space to sign a better pass rusher or LB to help next season. Micah has done a fine job helping to bring the Bills to a new level, but we can get ahead of his regression especially considering he will be 30 next year also. When you talk about starters like Hyde (not necessarily back ups like Murphy) you should also ask: Who is his direct replacement? What does his replacement cost? Money and production? Who do we actually sign/go after with that money? What do we pay them? Because when we cut Hyde we are now missing a safety. So for at least a period of time we have a hole at safety, and a weakness at LB and Edge. IMO if we aren’t positive we upgrade those positions, it’s not worth the $5M difference between keeping him and letting him go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogham26 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 far more likely we see an extension similar to what hughes did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, dneveu said: The cap savings is 4.5 million. It isn't even a lot of space. Don't get a comp pick either. You're sacrificing continuity on the back end for... the space to sign danny shelton or haha clinton-dix. Why is it milano or hyde? Why not milano or brown, or milano or butler? Butler is a sure cut anyway. His is a 1 year deal masquerading as a 2 year deal. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, ogham26 said: far more likely we see an extension similar to what hughes did It's more likely than Hyde getting cut! If Beane/McDermott wanted to move on from Hyde he would be probably easy to trade and get at LEAST a 6th round if not higher pick. If he plays next year and he is left to walk to FA the following year he will get signed and maybe bring back the same type of comp pick. If I was still a betting man I pick the last option as the most likely to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, corta765 said: I was taking a look today at Spotrac and what Hyde's dead cap hit is for 2021. Turns out if we cut him next season we only end up owing 1.6 mil of his 6.5 mil deal. Hyde was a foundation guy I wanted when he was a FA in 2017 and his first two seasons he was easily one of the Bills best players and the pro bowl was well earned in 2017. The last season and half though his play has regressed to the point I would consider getting rid of him. Last season his big plays were limited and he was responsible for missing coverage on the big TD Baltimore had. For how good last years D was I felt Hyde was more along for the ride then being a big contributor. This season he has been a trainwreck missing plays left and right while Poyer has covered his mistakes all over. Safety is a spot you can draft or fill pretty cheap and the Bills have found good safeties in the later rounds of the draft. Aaron Williams we converted to safety and was tracking to be a pro bowler before injuries wrecked his career. I would rather see the Bills cut Hyde and Murphy to use for cap space to sign a better pass rusher or LB to help next season. Micah has done a fine job helping to bring the Bills to a new level, but we can get ahead of his regression especially considering he will be 30 next year also. Aaron Williams was one of the first picks of the second round He wasnt a late round pick Most scouts including myself also had him as a safety, but the bills got cute trying to put him at corner. He was my #1 safety in the class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Butler is a sure cut anyway. His is a 1 year deal masquerading as a 2 year deal. I think he's one to watch for a potential second half breakthrough. He was totally invisible early in the year and I think he has shown that he doesn't have much interest in being their 340# double-team drawing 1T that they have lacked since trading Dareus.......but Butler does have the potential to make plays from the 3T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Aaron Williams was one of the first picks of the second round He wasnt a late round pick Most scouts including myself also had him as a safety, but the bills got cute trying to put him at corner. He was my #1 safety in the class Yeah I remember at the time there were metrics that had Aaron Williams rated as the worst starting CB in the league. And he was scrapping with critical fans online like crazy. Moved him to safety........where he always belonged.........and he was a very good player and became a fan favorite. They are going to have to replace Hyde..........if not next year, then the following..........and it shouldn't be mission impossible. In the two offseason prior to Beane's anointing as GM.......Doug Whaley and McD scored big with dirt cheap defensive UFA's Lorax and Zach Brown and Hyde and Poyer..........Beane just needs to get some of his own. He's not gotten good value at all in UFA his first few offseasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Hebert19 said: I too can see a restructure and extension with a limited cap hit in 2022 to open up cutting him then. Draft a safety for him to groom we def need to draft a safety. Thin in the secondary when it comes to depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Hyde is not getting cut. Next 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Hyde is always the one McDermott talks to on the sidelines. We need to draft an off-corner #1, get some quality depth at LB and re-sign Milano. We do that I think our D will be back at the top of the league. Oh, and get Star or another tub of goo to clog the run. No need to ditch Hyde, maybe a modest restructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I disagree with OP assessment that Hyde's play has declined significantly. I do agree with OP that in general teams have elected to move on from highly paid safeties and replacing them with young talent. That said they need to replace or extend multiple front 7 defenders and creating another hole on the defense makes little sense. I don't see that his play has dropped enough to warrant a change but at $6M a restructure or cut is not out of the realm of possibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Hyde is a leader and a guy that younger players look up to. The amount of times I've seen him slowly get to his feet after a play this season leads me to believe he's playing through some injuries. I think a lot of guys are doing that right now. I can't see him being cut outright but maybe a restructured deal and more of a rotational role on the field if they find a better option to start over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think he's one to watch for a potential second half breakthrough. He was totally invisible early in the year and I think he has shown that he doesn't have much interest in being their 340# double-team drawing 1T that they have lacked since trading Dareus.......but Butler does have the potential to make plays from the 3T. Agree. I think they signed him to play 3T but he has done both in Carolina so when Star opted out they tried him at 1T. As you say he showed no interest in doing that. The thing is he has more traffic to get past at 3T with Ed O and Jefferson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubanmist Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I would give him a 1 year deal, but draft a safety. Gotta be smart with the CAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 11 hours ago, warrior9 said: I tend to agree. I don't think he's been as bad as some people are suggesting. Poor LB play and DL play can absolutely affect DB's. I think that's what were seeing here, a little bit. The DB's look exposed more often when LB's are out of position. Coverage of tight ends has been poor this season. Some of that may go to Milano and Edmunds both missing time but a strong safety can also have that responsibility. Hyde also used to provide big hits. Maybe the first one he’s had, in this last game, ended up a penalty. Still, he hasn’t been totally useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, ColeB said: Coverage of tight ends has been poor this season. Some of that may go to Milano and Edmunds both missing time but a strong safety can also have that responsibility. Hyde also used to provide big hits. Maybe the first one he’s had, in this last game, ended up a penalty. Still, he hasn’t been totally useless. People read this, and it sounds like it's written kind of knowledgably Problem: while one of the strengths of the Poyer-Hyde SS-FS duo is that they can play interchangeable roles - Poyer is usually the strong safety. Hyde is usually the free safety. And that doesn't even get into the Bills love of the 4-2-5 defense and who commonly has responsibility for the TE there C'mon man: if you can't tell who's playing FS and who's playing SS, your pronouncements about who is "totally useless" aren't....totally useful. 6 hours ago, blacklabel said: Hyde is a leader and a guy that younger players look up to. The amount of times I've seen him slowly get to his feet after a play this season leads me to believe he's playing through some injuries. I think a lot of guys are doing that right now. I can't see him being cut outright but maybe a restructured deal and more of a rotational role on the field if they find a better option to start over him. I think there's no question. There were a couple games where he left for a while with an injury, got taped or something and came right back out. He laughs it off in press availabilities "it's football, I'm fine". If the Bills find a better option, GREAT! But until they do, why cut a guy and leave a hole? We have enough holes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97bills Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 12 hours ago, ytownblofan said: Hyde is a leader both on the field and in the locker room, and if we have learned anything from McD he is willing to keep and continue to pay his leaders (looking at you Lee Smith). I personally would be shocked if we moved on from him. I agree but I would love to add someone that can bring the wood in run support 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I’d be surprised if they cut him before his deal ran out but wouldn’t be all that worried. He’s certainly replaceable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 If they had a guy on the team ready to step up it would make sense. Do not create a hole and need. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, 97bills said: I agree but I would love to add someone that can bring the wood in run support I had a quick look for something that explains the role of a free safety. Not sure it's the best, found this: https://postemaperformance.com/free-safety-position-football/ Run-stopping While they don’t have as physical of a role in the running game as strong safeties, run support is very important. As they usually are lined up in a deep part of the field, they have to find the ball carrier, pursue at the right angle, and make a solid tackle. For the majority of the game, they are lined up deep, which means they are the last line of defense. If a free safety is making too many tackles in the running game, that likely means that the defenders in front of them are losing their individual battle. The safety should be exactly that, a safety net that you hopefully won’t need but is there if they have to prevent a big play. Note the point that the job of the free safety as a last line of defense, focuses on his ability to take at the right angle and make a solid tackle and to pursue the play if needed. A free safety who "brings the wood" too hard may tend to miss altogether, which is the very thing a good free safety is NEVER to do. I mean, sure, it would be great to have Ed Reed or Eric Berry, but those guys were both drafted in the 1st round for a reason, and stayed on the teams that drafted them pretty much all career for a reason too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97bills Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I had a quick look for something that explains the role of a free safety. Not sure it's the best, found this: https://postemaperformance.com/free-safety-position-football/ Run-stopping While they don’t have as physical of a role in the running game as strong safeties, run support is very important. As they usually are lined up in a deep part of the field, they have to find the ball carrier, pursue at the right angle, and make a solid tackle. For the majority of the game, they are lined up deep, which means they are the last line of defense. If a free safety is making too many tackles in the running game, that likely means that the defenders in front of them are losing their individual battle. The safety should be exactly that, a safety net that you hopefully won’t need but is there if they have to prevent a big play. Note the point that the job of the free safety as a last line of defense, focuses on his ability to take at the right angle and make a solid tackle and to pursue the play if needed. A free safety who "brings the wood" too hard may tend to miss altogether, which is the very thing a good free safety is NEVER to do. I mean, sure, it would be great to have Ed Reed or Eric Berry, but those guys were both drafted in the 1st round for a reason, and stayed on the teams that drafted them pretty much all career for a reason too. 👍🏼 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I sure hope he doesn't leave. He's very good and we don't need any more soft spots on our roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Guess we may find out what our depth at FS looks like today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 On 10/30/2020 at 1:08 PM, Thurman#1 said: I think the cap saving is even slightly less than that. $4.05 M salary $1.0 M roster bonus $100K workout bonus ... so we'd get out of paying $5.15M, but ... We'd be hit with $1.6 M in dead money. So the total saved would be $3.65 M ... ... unless he collects his contractual Pro Bowl bonus of $400K, and if he makes the Pro Bowl he'll have very easily been worth $4.05 M You're right that $3.65M is not a lot of space and that we wouldn't get a comp pick, and that we would almost certainly have to spend yet more money to bring in an FA to replace him. The OP doesn't make any real sense. The $1.6M from his signing bonus counts toward the cap whether he’s on the team or not. His roster bonus and salary ($5.15M total) only count if he’s on the team. So it’s a $1.6M hit if he’s cut or traded in the offseason or $6.75M if he is on the team. The cap savings is $5.15M (less his replacement’s cost if you want to be technical). Personally I want him on the team. The only thing I’d want to see besides him playing out his contract would be an extension. I will watch his play more closely since some are saying he isn’t having a good season. Even if that’s true, he has played well up until now and he’s still only 29. Maybe he’s playing with an injury or he’s trying to cover for the LBs. I don’t know, but he has earned the benefit of doubt IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, BarleyNY said: The $1.6M from his signing bonus counts toward the cap whether he’s on the team or not. His roster bonus and salary ($5.15M total) only count if he’s on the team. So it’s a $1.6M hit if he’s cut or traded in the offseason or $6.75M if he is on the team. The cap savings is $5.15M (less his replacement’s cost if you want to be technical). Personally I want him on the team. The only thing I’d want to see besides him playing out his contract would be an extension. I will watch his play more closely since some are saying he isn’t having a good season. Even if that’s true, he has played well up until now and he’s still only 29. Maybe he’s playing with an injury or he’s trying to cover for the LBs. I don’t know, but he has earned the benefit of doubt IMO. I want him on the team as well. Unless we draft a safety high - which seems unlikely - or unless Marlowe or Jaquan Johnson are ready to take over, we'd have to replace him with a lower-priced FA which would likely mean a less effective player. Thanks for the corrections, I screwed that up. Edited November 2, 2020 by Thurman#1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Hyde has been a good leader, but I just don't feel like there was anything missing with Marlowe in there yesterday. Marlowe ends up with 6 unassisted tackles and a fumble recovery to end the game. Maybe if NE had a better passing game we would have seen Marlowe exposed more in coverage but Hyde just has failed to make almost any impact plays the last 2 seasons. Hyde had 5 ints in 2017 while in 2019 and 2020 he has had just 1. I don't want to release players just to release them but going forward we need to start getting better value from the veterans we choose to pay as the cap situation requires it. Tough decisions need to be made and if they are not made then this team will not sustain any success. Good teams need to draft well and have young cheap talent constantly replacing the bloated veteran contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, racketmaster said: Hyde has been a good leader, but I just don't feel like there was anything missing with Marlowe in there yesterday. Marlowe ends up with 6 unassisted tackles and a fumble recovery to end the game. Maybe if NE had a better passing game we would have seen Marlowe exposed more in coverage but Hyde just has failed to make almost any impact plays the last 2 seasons. Hyde had 5 ints in 2017 while in 2019 and 2020 he has had just 1. I don't want to release players just to release them but going forward we need to start getting better value from the veterans we choose to pay as the cap situation requires it. Tough decisions need to be made and if they are not made then this team will not sustain any success. Good teams need to draft well and have young cheap talent constantly replacing the bloated veteran contracts. We played a team with the worst passing offense in the NFL, on a windy day. I don't think the Free safety was going to be featured. If he misses Seattle too, we can talk about marlowe as a suitable replacement free safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Just now, dneveu said: We played a team with the worst passing offense in the NFL, on a windy day. I don't think the Free safety was going to be featured. If he misses Seattle too, we can talk about marlowe as a suitable replacement free safety. Hyde playing against Seattle will mean nothing. Hyde is useless out there. I'm sure he will float around and make tackles 30 yards down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, Back2Buff said: Hyde playing against Seattle will mean nothing. Hyde is useless out there. I'm sure he will float around and make tackles 30 yards down the field. I think the idea is being in the right place to make plays on the ball so they can't get multiple deep completions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 45 minutes ago, dneveu said: I think the idea is being in the right place to make plays on the ball so they can't get multiple deep completions. You need more than that out a high paid FS. You send out a rookie to stand back there and do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, Back2Buff said: You need more than that out a high paid FS. You send out a rookie to stand back there and do that. Do tell. I guess 32 GMs on 32 teams that value play at FS are just dumb then. Look, at least educate yourself about the role of a free safety and why it's a difficult position to play and why teams around the league spend an average of $6M at the position (the current world champions, KC, are spending $23M this year) before running off your mouth. Hyde is not a "high paid free safety". He's paid just slightly above average at the position. When he's standing "off the TV screen" it's because that's what the play calls for him to do. There's far more to a FS position than "stand back there" and there's a reason most teams don't have a rookie out there doing that, unless they draft one high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts