TNF: Bengals at Browns 8:20 Eastern on NFLN

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Check out the Browns schedule.... I think they get at least 8 wins. Probably 9 or so.

If only you were as optimistic about the bills. 

 

😝

[Bray Wyatt]

11 minutes ago, Buftex said:

Browns look pretty damn good, granted it is only against the Bengals.  But hard to ignore how powerful Chubb and Hunt are together.  I think Aikman was on to something when he said Chubb looks like Marshawn Lynch.  I like Stefanski's offense.  They may not be pushovers a lot longer.  I have to say though, as much as I pull for the Browns (and Bengals for that matter) in general, is there a more unlikeable trio of players than Mayfield, OBJ and Landry? All talented players, no doubt, but just hard to like them.

 

Burrows had some gaffes, but looks like he is going to be pretty good.  Showed real poise a few times tonight, and so accurate.  Pro football in Ohio may be pretty interesting for the next ten years or so.

agreed, I’d like to add Kareem hunt to the list of unlike able players though

[MJS]

17 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Whoa.

 

Baker goes from league worst  4.8 y/a after Week 1 to post 9.5 y/a tonight.

 

Somebody was looking to drive the ball the down the field tonight.

 

And Burrows!  Woooo-eeeeee.  Love’em.

 

By 2022...watch out.

It has nothing to do with Baker. It was the defenses he faced.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

It has nothing to do with Baker. It was the defenses he faced.

Is Baker the only QB who gets docked on good performances based on the lousy teams he goes against?

 

I mean what gives?

Edited September 18, 2020 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[Nelius]

All of those missed AJ Green targets. Yikes. Seems safe to say he may not be one of the best in the league anymore.

[MJS]

22 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Is Baker the only QB who gets docked on good performances based on the lousy teams he goes against?

 

I mean what gives?

I was referring only to his yards per attempt stat. The big difference eis likely due to the disparate caliber of defenses he faced week 1 vs 2. I said nothing bad about him.

[Penfield45]

Burrow looks like a proper talent, in 3 years he will most likely be a top 3 QB in the AFC. 

[Chandler#81]

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[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

2 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

Burrow looks like a proper talent, in 3 years he will most likely be a top 3 QB in the AFC. 

the league will figure him out 

 

[GunnerBill]

So my Friday morning thoughts after watching TNF.....

 

1. The Browns obituary was written prematurely. What happened to them on Sunday was embarrassing but they will not be the only team Baltimore embarrass this season. The Ravens are really, really good. 

2. That said, there are legitimate concerns about the Browns defense. They are missing a real playmaker in the secondary (which when you remember they selected Denzel Ward ahead of the likes of Bradley Chubb and Quinton Nelson is disappointing) but more than their defensive backs I think the bigger issue is at linebacker. Burrows wasn't beating them with bombs he was slicing and dicing them using his tight ends, backs and Boyd in the slot. None of their linebackers can cover. It is sufficiently serious that if I were their GM I'd be on the phone trying to trade for someone who can run and cover. It is a major achilles heel. 

3. Baker looked really good in the Stefanski scheme. Yes he got too greedy on the interception 2nd half but the half field reads were helping him be more decisive and he wasn't holding the ball as long as he was at times last season in the mess that Kitchens was running. 

4. Nick Chubb - ELITE. 

5. Joe Burrow had a decent night. Not perfect, there were some throws he would like back but credit Zac Taylor and the Bengals for essentially building a system with a lot of familiarity for him from LSU. The one major criticism I'd make, and I did say this in my scouting report on him coming out, is I think he overrates his athletic ability. He took a few hits and sacks on plays where he thinks he can be a runner in the NFL and he can't. He plays with a bit of that Andrew Luck / Josh Allen linebacker style mentality but he isn't the athlete Luck was and certainly isn't the athlete Allen is. Overall though this season for the Bengals is more about Burrow than Ws... and so far, so good. 

6. When AJ Green was linked with the Bills in a trade last season I said I was skeptical he could be what he was after all of the injuries. So far through two games I see a guy who is trying to adapt his game to become more of a possession type receiver in the way that Larry Fitz did. There might be a couple of years left in him as that. But the explosive, downfield playmaker that he once was? Yea.... those days are gone. 

7. That was an entertaining football game. 

 

 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Yeah I wanted Green but I have to say he's a shell of what he was, at this point. He would have made some of those catches a couple years ago i.e. the back shoulder throw. Good thing we got Diggsy.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Yeah I wanted Green but I have to say he's a shell of what he was, at this point. He would have made some of those catches a couple years ago i.e. the back shoulder throw. Good thing we got Diggsy.

 

At this stage of their respective careers AJ Green is a piece. He is not THE piece in the way Diggs is.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Is Baker the only QB who gets docked on good performances based on the lousy teams he goes against?

 

I mean what gives?

 

You must be new around here.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Burrow deserves better than this defense.

 

Whoever gets Zac Taylor’s job next year will be getting some decent pieces on offense. 

 

If Burrow continues to play like this and the Benglas fire Zac Taylor they are crazy. Keep the offensive side in tact, fire Anarumo and hire an experienced defensive coordinator (might require Mike Brown to put his hand in his pocket though which rarely happens) and draft defense early and often and that team could turnaround quickly next year. The last thing you do is remove the offensive head coach and offensive coordinator who has helped the rook look so comfortable between his 1st and 2nd year because your defense sucks. That is the sort of move BAD franchises make.

 

 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Whyyyy does everyone call Mayfield "Baker"?

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Whyyyy does everyone call Mayfield "Baker"?

 

Because it's his name?

[Orlando Tim]

8 hours ago, Turk71 said:

If Jackson and Watson got good? Jackson and Watson are not yet in the same echelon as Allen? You're hilarious, homer on.

My wording was poor but I meant that if Minshew got good like them, they are already really good and young.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because it's his name?

His last name is Mayfield. People generally refer to football players with their last name. You'll see people make whole lists of quarterbacks, or they'll mention 10 quarterbacks in a paragraph and Mayfield will be the only one whose last name is replaced by his first name. It's just a strange phenomenon to me. It's not like his last name is something hard to spell or pronounce, like Lotulelei.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Giuseppe Tognarelli

[Royale with Cheese]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

was Shaunta also known as the Big Cat?
 

Average defense my ass.

 

That defense was trash dude. A confused, unprepared disaster led by two morons.
 

The offense average 26 PPG and were a top 10 scoring unit that year. I’ve had this discussion many times and many times been proven correct so you can go look up the games for yourself if you really want to. 

If it was trash, why weren’t we bottom 3 in defensive scoring?  We were middle of the pack.  
I guess you don’t measure a defense by the points given up...but you will offensive scoring lol?  Why is that?
 

LOL you’ve been proven correct?  This is something that you can be proven correct?  Something subjective?

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Royale with Cheese

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

26 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Whyyyy does everyone call Mayfield "Baker"?

Not to confuse him with Curtis.  Is your 'Y' key sticking? 😁

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

His last name is Mayfield. People generally refer to football players with their last name. You'll see people make whole lists of quarterbacks, or they'll mention 10 quarterbacks in a paragraph and Mayfield will be the only one whose last name is replaced by his first name. It's just a strange phenomenon to me. It's not like his last name is something hard to spell or pronounce, like Lotulelei.

 

I tent to use first and last names much more interchangeably. I use Josh as much if not more than I use Allen. I have always used Drew at least as much as I use Brees. Surnames only is very old English public school to me.

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I tent to use first and last names much more interchangeably. I use Josh as much if not more than I use Allen. I have always used Drew at least as much as I use Brees. Surnames only is very old English public school to me.

Keep your language opinions over there where they belong. We’ve perfected the English language, y’all just keep to youselves. 
 

[Halloween Land]

I rather have Joe Burrow than Josh Allen. Both will be good in this league, but Burrow will be a better passer. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If it was trash, why weren’t we bottom 3 in defensive scoring?  We were middle of the pack.  
I guess you don’t measure a defense by the points given up...but you will offensive scoring lol?
 

LOL you’ve been proven correct?  This is something that you can be proven correct?  Something subjective?

 

That defense was pretty trash. I tracked it in all the major categories that season..... there is an old thread here on it... but they were awful for points given up per drive against and % of drives against ending in scores. The reason they were middle of the pack in yards and points was entirely due to the offense staying on the field with lots of running and not turning it over.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Keep your language opinions over there where they belong. We’ve perfected the English language, y’all just keep to youselves. 
 

 

I didn't help myself by starting the sentence with I tent when I mean I tend.....

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That defense was pretty trash. I tracked it in all the major categories that season..... there is an old thread here on it... but they were awful for points given up per drive against and % of drives against ending in scores. The reason they were middle of the pack in yards and points was entirely due to the offense staying on the field with lots of running and not turning it over.

 

Shaunta from the old BBMB did the same thing for the offense that year.  He tracked everything as well.

 

I’ll trust you since you put in the work.

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Whyyyy does everyone call Mayfield "Baker"?

haha— this is a good observation. 
 

I bet it is because he has a name that sounds like two last names. 

[Buffalo Boy]

5 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

[This is an automated response]

 

As a courtesy to the other board members, please use more descriptive topic titles. A better title will help the community find information faster and make your topic more likely to be read. The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.

 

Thank you.

    Was just trying to get an in-game board opened up last night because the pinned one was locked halfway through the first quarter.

    Joe beat me to it.

    Lock/ delete this one.

Thanks

[Royale with Cheese]

44 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes... I find football outsiders a great site for giving a true measure of a specific teams offense, defense, or special teams with the DVOA system as it doesn’t just look at net yardage or net scoring but takes into account different situations and the opponent and compares against the rest of the league.

 

football outsiders had the Bills defense 27th in 2016 and the Bills offense 10th. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/team-defense/2016
 

Regardless of what you thought/think of Tyrod anyone who thought the Bills offense wasn’t good in 2016 is flat out wrong, they were a very solid unit. The defense sucked. 
 

 

See above. 

 

DVOA is another measuring stick and isn't flawless...I know what it is.  Guess who was top 10 in offensive DVOA last year?  The Oakland Raiders....the 7-9 Raiders who were 24th in ppg at 19.6 

So without a doubt, the Raiders were a top 10 offense?  Bills and Raiders had the same ppg last year and you often criticize our offense....

 

As I said earlier, Shaunta broke it down game by game.  You didn't even read that thread and saying he's wrong lol.  

[BarleyNY]

12 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 Burrow is going to be such a good pro

He was my favorite QB since Luck.  I’m not saying Cincy can’t ruin him, but he can be a great pro. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

As I said earlier, Shaunta broke it down game by game.  You didn't even read that thread and saying he's wrong lol.  

 

He was on BBMB you say? Yea. He was wrong.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Whyyyy does everyone call Mayfield "Baker"?

I call him Faker 

 

fwiw

 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was on BBMB you say? Yea. He was wrong.

He wasn’t just some idiot.  The guy was a college coach....he understands the game.  It doesn’t mean he’s the universal truth on it but he had solid arguments.

I don’t think our offense was a legitimate top 10 offense.  We struggled to move the ball through the air with any consistency.

[YoloinOhio]

Both QBs looked great for the most part. Defenses were not good, with cincy’s being especially undermanned and not ready on a short week. They lack talent and missing Atkins And Daniels was terrible to try to stop the run. The browns could have just run it on every play. Can’t believe the browns only won by 5. Don’t see either team beating ravens or Steelers.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

He wasn’t just some idiot.  The guy was a college coach....he understands the game.  It doesn’t mean he’s the universal truth on it but he had solid arguments.

I don’t think our offense was a legitimate top 10 offense.  We struggled to move the ball through the air with any consistency.

 

I was pulling your leg...... it was a dig at the BBMB.

 

He is right we struggled to move the ball through the air with any consistency.... but that is part of the issue with the way people see Greg Roman. It has happened again in Baltimore.... people see run game and find fault with his offense. But he is one of the most innovative offensive minds out there it is just he is run first.

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was pulling your leg...... it was a dig at the BBMB.

 

He is right we struggled to move the ball through the air with any consistency.... but that is part of the issue with the way people see Greg Roman. It has happened again in Baltimore.... people see run game and find fault with his offense. But he is one of the most innovative offensive minds out there it is just he is run first.

Im hoping that its my leg that you only want to pull.  Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

[YoloinOhio]

Stefanski I thought called a great game. They clearly had more talent but still really good with the game plan.

[BarleyNY]

A note on Teller.  As mentioned PFF graded him out at an elite level last week.  He looks to be a spectator fit in the Browns I/O Zone scheme.  Great, inexpensive (probably flat out lucky if we’re honest) pick up for the Browns.  That all said, he wouldn’t look anything like that in the Bills Power/Gap scheme.  He didn’t do anything in that scheme last year with the Browns just like he didn’t here.  It was the right move by Beane to get something for him. 

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If Burrow continues to play like this and the Benglas fire Zac Taylor they are crazy. Keep the offensive side in tact, fire Anarumo and hire an experienced defensive coordinator (might require Mike Brown to put his hand in his pocket though which rarely happens) and draft defense early and often and that team could turnaround quickly next year. The last thing you do is remove the offensive head coach and offensive coordinator who has helped the rook look so comfortable between his 1st and 2nd year because your defense sucks. That is the sort of move BAD franchises make.

 

 

 

Living down here in Cincinnati you learn real quick that the Bengal's do not fire coaches quickly.  Given the covid and Burrow's promising start I would bet that Taylor's job is safe for two more years - at a minimum.

 

 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

So my Friday morning thoughts after watching TNF.....

 

 

5. Joe Burrow had a decent night. Not perfect, there were some throws he would like back but credit Zac Taylor and the Bengals for essentially building a system with a lot of familiarity for him from LSU. The one major criticism I'd make, and I did say this in my scouting report on him coming out, is I think he overrates his athletic ability. He took a few hits and sacks on plays where he thinks he can be a runner in the NFL and he can't. He plays with a bit of that Andrew Luck / Josh Allen linebacker style mentality but he isn't the athlete Luck was and certainly isn't the athlete Allen is. Overall though this season for the Bengals is more about Burrow than Ws... and so far, so good. 

6. When AJ Green was linked with the Bills in a trade last season I said I was skeptical he could be what he was after all of the injuries. So far through two games I see a guy who is trying to adapt his game to become more of a possession type receiver in the way that Larry Fitz did. There might be a couple of years left in him as that. But the explosive, downfield playmaker that he once was? Yea.... those days are gone. 

 

 

 

 

These are two good points. 

 

*  Burrow will learn that he needs to surprise teams with his athleticism and not make it a central part of his game.  If you sleep on Burrow he can rip 20 yards off on a run.  But unlike Allen he's not going to break a lot of tackles or stiff arm LB's.

 

*  Maybe he's just shaking off the cobwebs but so far Green has not looked good IMO.  He seems slow and and he's not making the circus catches he used to.  Diggs was a vastly superior pickup at WR compared to Green.

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Stefanski I thought called a great game. They clearly had more talent but still really good with the game plan.

 

Agreed. In very much the way I have argued against a heavy running attack and lots of play action for Josh Allen it is the way I would develop Baker Mayfield. Baker has to play in scheme that can combine the play action boots and rollouts we saw early last night from Stefanski - which requires a functioning run game - with the quick hits pitch and catch type plays out of the shotgun. When he gets himself into trouble is when he holds the football. I thought he missed one throw down in the redzone when he put too much air under the ball for his Tight End and he got greedy on the INT when there was a safe intermediate throw there for him but otherwise Baker played a lot better yesterday than on Sunday and I think it was the right game plan for him.

 

In summary:

- Mayfield needs a scheme that gives him structure

- Allen needs a scheme that gives him freedom

Edited September 18, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Living down here in Cincinnati you learn real quick that the Bengal's do not fire coaches quickly.  Given the covid and Burrow's promising start I would bet that Taylor's job is safe for two more years - at a minimum.

 

 

 

These are two good points. 

 

*  Burrow will learn that he needs to surprise teams with his athleticism and not make it a central part of his game.  If you sleep on Burrow he can rip 20 yards off on a run.  But unlike Allen he's not going to break a lot of tackles or stiff arm LB's.

 

*  Maybe he's just shaking off the cobwebs but so far Green has not looked good IMO.  He seems slow and and he's not making the circus catches he used to.  Diggs was a vastly superior pickup at WR compared to Green.

 

 

 

 

I don’t want to see Allen stiff arm LB’s or breaking tackles. I would rather see Allen run OB or slide a lot more.