WRs and TEs

[CorkScrewHill]

We have a perceived excess of good WRs and TEs ...instead of cutting or trading for nothing a younger WR .. why not trade Cole Beasley (same question could be asked about John Brown .. but I love the Josh - Smoke connection)? It would give us a better draft pick at least in theory and more cap room definitely. I would also love to see them unload Tyler Kroft. I am certain the board would have no issue with Kroft leaving, but what about Cole? Note: No disrespect to Cole .. I appreciate what he brings, but looking at it from a trade value / cost / productivity perspective I think we would be better making this type of move.

 

 

[H2o]

Bad idea. You don't trade your proven veterans, who are good football players, and want to be here to replace them with unproven players. Beasley and Brown are keys in this offense. You keep them for certain. Also, what kind of message would that send to a team on the rise with SB aspirations? It's just foolish all the way around. 

[thebandit27]

No offense here:

 

You want to trade a guy that had over 100 targets for a career-high in catches and yards, with 6 TDs despite playing out of position? And you want to do this in order to get more time on the field for, who, exactly?

 

I’m out on this one

[r00tabaga]

Definite no for me.

 

We need RG and CB2 so a trade to vastly upgrade those spots....maybe.... but I still keep our WRs and TEs

[Victory Formation]

Beasley is extremely important to Josh Allen.. he is a great possession receiver despite his size... he uses quickness to get open and provides Josh Allen with a reliable outlet in case Diggs and Brown can’t get open.. he’s good for 60-70 first downs every year... Now is the time to start providing Josh with as many weapons as possible... we’re in win now mode, not rebuild mode.. our Super Bowl window is now... if anything we should be trading for players....

[GunnerBill]

So I hear your idea.... what I don't hear is your rationale?

[Brennan Huff]

No. Hard pass. His value in Buffalo far exceeds any offer we’d receive for him, IMO...

[First Round Bust]

I see one more year for Brown and two more for Beasley - check the amt of money the Bills are throwing to their WRs (its in the top 5) as a position and with the cap tightening to pay Tre, Josh, and Tremaine coming-up (Milano maybe-maybe not) and with some young WRs behind a true #1 in Diggs I can see them being phased-out mostly because we overpaid based on need last year and they are smallish

[TBBills]

I would rather keep all top guys... If one goes down you have a guy almost as good behind.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

You can never have enough weapons. All of a sudden we have a couple injuries and then we are just scraping by. I don’t downgrade that for a draft pick. And as other mentioned he is very important to Josh. 

[CorkScrewHill]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

So I hear your idea.... what I don't hear is your rationale?

The rationale is we are only going to throw the ball x times .. and Diggs will get the most, and Brown and Knox will absorb a lot .. but we need to get time on the field for others (say Gabe Davis). I don't want to win this year. I want to win this year and next year and the year after. You do that by managing your payroll and constantly bringing in new players who can push the veterans at a cheaper price.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

The rationale is we are only going to throw the ball x times .. and Diggs will get the most, and Brown and Knox will absorb a lot .. but we need to get time on the field for others (say Gabe Davis). I don't want to win this year. I want to win this year and next year and the year after. You do that by managing your payroll and constantly bringing in new players who can push the veterans at a cheaper price.

 

I don't think retaining Beasley for 2020 prevents the Bills winning in years to come.

[thebandit27]

15 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Beasley is extremely important to Josh Allen.. he is a great possession receiver despite his size... he uses quickness to get open and provides Josh Allen with a reliable outlet in case Diggs and Brown can’t get open.. he’s good for 60-70 first downs every year... Now is the time to start providing Josh with as many weapons as possible... we’re in win now mode, not rebuild mode.. our Super Bowl window is now... if anything we should be trading for players....

Just an FYI, Beasley has never had 60 first downs in his career.

 

He had 37 last year.

 

4 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

The rationale is we are only going to throw the ball x times .. and Diggs will get the most, and Brown and Knox will absorb a lot .. but we need to get time on the field for others (say Gabe Davis). I don't want to win this year. I want to win this year and next year and the year after. You do that by managing your payroll and constantly bringing in new players who can push the veterans at a cheaper price.

 

Wait, the team needs to get more time on the field for a 4th round rookie over a veteran coming off his best season despite playing out of position?

 

That does not make any sense whatsoever.

[mjt328]

1.  Cole Beasley is a unique weapon to our offense, since he excels from the slot.  

2.  Our rookie receivers haven't shown anything, except in practice yet.

3.  We need depth, due to possible injuries.

4.  Back-end guys like Duke Williams and Robert Foster disappointed in games much of last year.

5.  The Bills are ready to contend.  We don't need to be getting rid of valuable pieces of the team for draft picks.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Wait, the team needs to get more time on the field for a 4th round rookie over a veteran coming off his best season despite playing out of position?

 

That does not make any sense whatsoever.

 

And a 4th rounder who played almost entirely outside in college..... not sure taking Beasley off the field gets Gabe on the field.

[mjt328]

8 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

The rationale is we are only going to throw the ball x times .. and Diggs will get the most, and Brown and Knox will absorb a lot .. but we need to get time on the field for others (say Gabe Davis). I don't want to win this year. I want to win this year and next year and the year after. You do that by managing your payroll and constantly bringing in new players who can push the veterans at a cheaper price.

 

It's not all about targets and catches.  

It's about keeping pressure on the defense, and making it impossible for them to defend everybody.

 

Teams are going to have a very difficult time taking away John Brown deep down the sideline, Stephon Diggs up the seam, Cole Beasley over the middle.... and still managing to keep tabs on our RB, TE and scrambling QB.

 

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And a 4th rounder who played almost entirely outside in college..... not sure taking Beasley off the field gets Gabe on the field.

Right.

 

I think folks just aren’t used to the idea of a passing offense and just how much opportunity there will be for the team’s playmakers.

 

An offense that attempts 500 passes (fewer than the 2019 Bills’ offense) can distribute targets as such:

 

Diggs - 120 (7-8 per game)

Smoke - 100 (6-7 per game)

Beasley - 80 (5 per game)

Knox - 70 (4-5 per game)

Devin - 50 (3 per game)

Davis - 40 (2-3 per game)

 

And that leaves another 40 targets for guys like Moss, McKenzie, etc to share.

[ziltoid]

You want this WR depth problem every year.  We have been a mess for years in this regard.

 

The TE room is a different story.  And if you want to lump 2 groups together it should be TEs and FBs.  Those positions are currently in flux.  I don't personally think Knox is the answer, but he will get his shot this year.  Please surprise me.  Guys like Kroft, Croom, Sweeney are a dime a dozen.  The front office needs to make a concerted effort next year to improve there, if Knox fails to grow this year.

 

For FBs - DiMarco will probably be let go soon (IR'd), leaving the position to an undrafted Gilliam.  Hope he can contribute on STs.

[hemma]

Break up this Beanehemoth before someone gets hurt!

 

.... or mercilessly kick the crap out of all of them.

 

hmmm, which is better?

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

We have a perceived excess of good WRs and TEs ...instead of cutting or trading for nothing a younger WR .. why not trade Cole Beasley (same question could be asked about John Brown .. but I love the Josh - Smoke connection)? It would give us a better draft pick at least in theory and more cap room definitely. I would also love to see them unload Tyler Kroft. I am certain the board would have no issue with Kroft leaving, but what about Cole? Note: No disrespect to Cole .. I appreciate what he brings, but looking at it from a trade value / cost / productivity perspective I think we would be better making this type of move.

 

 

Then we could get Bob Foster more miss's!

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Maybe I wouldn’t go this route, but its a super creative idea and a good discussion. Nothing wrong with that! 

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Maybe I wouldn’t go this route, but its a super creative idea and a good discussion. Nothing wrong with that! 

Trade away the veteran to save money and give chances to the unproven rookie training camp star is creative? Feels like we have this discussion every year...

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

No

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

32 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

You want this WR depth problem every year.  We have been a mess for years in this regard.

 

The TE room is a different story.  And if you want to lump 2 groups together it should be TEs and FBs.  Those positions are currently in flux.  I don't personally think Knox is the answer, but he will get his shot this year.  Please surprise me.  Guys like Kroft, Croom, Sweeney are a dime a dozen.  The front office needs to make a concerted effort next year to improve there, if Knox fails to grow this year.

 

For FBs - DiMarco will probably be let go soon (IR'd), leaving the position to an undrafted Gilliam.  Hope he can contribute on STs.

 

I would have agreed with you up until about 3 days ago till McD basically stated Gilliam isn't ready yet.  He could make the roster over T Jones assuming Jones is still not healthy stictly for ST play.  Unless DeMarco isn't healthy but he could be like Morse last year, missed all training camp but was ready to go week one. 

 

We shall see how healthy all these guys are come Saturday.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

We have a perceived excess of good WRs and TEs ...instead of cutting or trading for nothing a younger WR .. why not trade Cole Beasley (same question could be asked about John Brown .. but I love the Josh - Smoke connection)? It would give us a better draft pick at least in theory and more cap room definitely. I would also love to see them unload Tyler Kroft. I am certain the board would have no issue with Kroft leaving, but what about Cole? Note: No disrespect to Cole .. I appreciate what he brings, but looking at it from a trade value / cost / productivity perspective I think we would be better making this type of move.

 

 

great, so we finally have 3 legit WR who know the playbook and you want to trade one.  No.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

We have a perceived excess of good WRs and TEs ...instead of cutting or trading for nothing a younger WR .. why not trade Cole Beasley (same question could be asked about John Brown .. but I love the Josh - Smoke connection)? It would give us a better draft pick at least in theory and more cap room definitely. I would also love to see them unload Tyler Kroft. I am certain the board would have no issue with Kroft leaving, but what about Cole? Note: No disrespect to Cole .. I appreciate what he brings, but looking at it from a trade value / cost / productivity perspective I think we would be better making this type of move.

 

 

 

I mean - whos depth behind knox if not kroft?  Sweeney missed all of camp.  Smith is 32 and has 60 career catches.  Croom is still croom.  Kroft will probably never be what he is physically capable of being, but he's a better receiver/route runner than smith.  

 

And why make the team worse by moving your slot receiver?  We don't really have a replacement in the similar mold of bease.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Trade away the veteran to save money and give chances to the unproven rookie training camp star is creative? Feels like we have this discussion every year...

Yeah, but the veteran isnt usually such a high production guy. Or so I think. Who was it last year? 

[ziltoid]

7 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I would have agreed with you up until about 3 days ago till McD basically stated Gilliam isn't ready yet.  He could make the roster over T Jones assuming Jones is still not healthy stictly for ST play.  Unless DeMarco isn't healthy but he could be like Morse last year, missed all training camp but was ready to go week one. 

 

We shall see how healthy all these guys are come Saturday.

 

Maybe DiMarco's injury is not as bad as I fear.  Most neck injuries for FBs or LBs are career enders.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

19 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Then we could get Bob Foster more miss's!

Go, roll to victory,
Hit your stride,
You’re Dixie’s football pride,
Crimson Tide, Roll Tide, Roll Tide!!
*
And now, Sky Diver is coming back to lecture us all on how Foster's the 'second coming' of Jerry Rice.  ?

*
The only thing I can add to this thread is:

d-u-k-e!  D-U-K-E!  D-U-K-E!  DUKE! DUKE! DUKE!  ???

 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

We have a perceived excess of good WRs and TEs ...instead of cutting or trading for nothing a younger WR .. why not trade Cole Beasley (same question could be asked about John Brown .. but I love the Josh - Smoke connection)? It would give us a better draft pick at least in theory and more cap room definitely. I would also love to see them unload Tyler Kroft. I am certain the board would have no issue with Kroft leaving, but what about Cole? Note: No disrespect to Cole .. I appreciate what he brings, but looking at it from a trade value / cost / productivity perspective I think we would be better making this type of move.

 

 

You're going to have to get used to having a perceived excess of good players for a while, at least until JA's second contract kicks in. I know it's been something Bills fans haven't been used to, but it will be ok. We don't have to pin our hopes on the young guys anymore, when they are ready they will prove it. So if injuries happen and guys like Davis step up then you have a situation where the flexibility is there to trade an established  player. If Davis proves he isn't ready, then he goes back to work to get better when the injured player returns. Similar to what happened with Knox last year.

  

1 hour ago, BeerLeagueHockey said:

You want this WR depth problem every year.  We have been a mess for years in this regard.

 

The TE room is a different story.  And if you want to lump 2 groups together it should be TEs and FBs.  Those positions are currently in flux.  I don't personally think Knox is the answer, but he will get his shot this year.  Please surprise me.  Guys like Kroft, Croom, Sweeney are a dime a dozen.  The front office needs to make a concerted effort next year to improve there, if Knox fails to grow this year.

 

For FBs - DiMarco will probably be let go soon (IR'd), leaving the position to an undrafted Gilliam.  Hope he can contribute on STs.

With us having a playoff caliber roster, I think it is a wonderful time to draft a te early. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

Right.

 

I think folks just aren’t used to the idea of a passing offense and just how much opportunity there will be for the team’s playmakers.

 

An offense that attempts 500 passes (fewer than the 2019 Bills’ offense) can distribute targets as such:

 

Diggs - 120 (7-8 per game)

Smoke - 100 (6-7 per game)

Beasley - 80 (5 per game)

Knox - 70 (4-5 per game)

Devin - 50 (3 per game)

Davis - 40 (2-3 per game)

 

And that leaves another 40 targets for guys like Moss, McKenzie, etc to share.

Beasley should have just as many targets as Diggs and Smokey if not more

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

We have a perceived excess of good WRs and TEs ...instead of cutting or trading for nothing a younger WR .. why not trade Cole Beasley (same question could be asked about John Brown .. but I love the Josh - Smoke connection)? It would give us a better draft pick at least in theory and more cap room definitely. I would also love to see them unload Tyler Kroft. I am certain the board would have no issue with Kroft leaving, but what about Cole? Note: No disrespect to Cole .. I appreciate what he brings, but looking at it from a trade value / cost / productivity perspective I think we would be better making this type of move.

 

 

I'm going to do my best @DC Tom impression....

 

 

"You're an idiot!!!"

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Beasley should have just as many targets as Diggs and Smokey if not more

I’m not sure that I agree with that, but regardless, it’s immaterial. Assume that the offense is going to attempt more passes than 2019, not fewer, so we may be talking ~530 attempts (a 5% increase). The point is that there are plenty of targets to go around.

[ziltoid]

1 minute ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Beasley should have just as many targets as Diggs and Smokey if not more

Allen's arm is going to fall off.  I'd love it if we became that explosive pass happy 600 attempt offense!

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

I’m not sure that I agree with that, but regardless, it’s immaterial. Assume that the offense is going to attempt more passes than 2019, not fewer, so we may be talking ~530 attempts (a 5% increase). The point is that there are plenty of targets to go around.

I think all our Offensive players can easily have a career year at least.

[IgotBILLStopay]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

We have a perceived excess of good WRs and TEs ...instead of cutting or trading for nothing a younger WR .. why not trade Cole Beasley (same question could be asked about John Brown .. but I love the Josh - Smoke connection)? It would give us a better draft pick at least in theory and more cap room definitely. I would also love to see them unload Tyler Kroft. I am certain the board would have no issue with Kroft leaving, but what about Cole? Note: No disrespect to Cole .. I appreciate what he brings, but looking at it from a trade value / cost / productivity perspective I think we would be better making this type of move.

 

 

aha! I suggested including Beasley in a Diggs trade a while ago and got flamed for it (didn’t want to part with a first rounder even though I have been in love with Diggs as the perfect JA complement well before the trade actually happened). Of course I also got flamed by people not wanting Diggs at all - but that is a different story.

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/223332-what-would-you-think-of-stefon-diggs-and-xavier-rhodes-for-cole-beasley-taron-johnson-and-a-4th-rounder/

 

Beasley is valuable from a trade point of view since his production far outweighs what is left on his contract (post signing bonuses). I think GB and SF would easily part with their second rounders. 

 

The key is how well Beasley and the others have done in TC. If the brass believes Davis and Duke can replace him, this is a good idea. While there has been very little Beasley news most of TC, I did hear one of the CBs say in their interview that Cole was pretty much unguardable. If so, let us keep our best four out there (and that clearly includes Beas).

 

 

[JustWinPlease]

You love the Allen-Brown connection, but Beasley was Allen's security blanket.

There's zero chance he gets traded...this team doesn't need cap space and draft picks.

(And with the lack of talent and depth at TE, you don't trade Kroft either.)

[CorkScrewHill]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think retaining Beasley for 2020 prevents the Bills winning in years to come.

No but having the cash rolled over (in a year that is expected to be tight) and an extra draft pick that will also be lower priced could help.

7 minutes ago, JustWinPlease said:

You love the Allen-Brown connection, but Beasley was Allen's security blanket.

There's zero chance he gets traded...this team doesn't need cap space and draft picks.

(And with the lack of talent and depth at TE, you don't trade Kroft either.)

All teams need cap space and draft picks if they want to stay on top longer-term

 

[Bangarang]

Please make it stop.

[Rico]

2 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

We have a perceived excess of good WRs and TEs ...instead of cutting or trading for nothing a younger WR .. why not trade Cole Beasley (same question could be asked about John Brown .. but I love the Josh - Smoke connection)? It would give us a better draft pick at least in theory and more cap room definitely. I would also love to see them unload Tyler Kroft. I am certain the board would have no issue with Kroft leaving, but what about Cole? Note: No disrespect to Cole .. I appreciate what he brings, but looking at it from a trade value / cost / productivity perspective I think we would be better making this type of move.

 

 

Yep. Diggs and Brown are by far the 2 best WR’s on the team as we know it. If Davis is all that & those are by far our best 3 WRs, I would find a way to get all 3 on the field as much as possible. Beasley can then either take a seat on the bench or be used for trade bait. All depends on Davis.

[thurst44]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

No offense here:

 

You want to trade a guy that had over 100 targets for a career-high in catches and yards, with 6 TDs despite playing out of position? And you want to do this in order to get more time on the field for, who, exactly?

 

I’m out on this one

Also, it's important to note that most of those stats were in the second half of the season when Allen started to have a rapport with him.